Is 'Free Verse'

[Rybka]

All things being equal, I prefer rhymed and metered verse, but normally things are not equal. It is harder to write good original rhyming poetry for two basic reasons.

1. Rhyme/metre requires structure and is thus more restrictive in what and how something can be said.

2. Since rhymed verse is restrictive, its smaller universe of options has been more fully used already. Thus novel/creative and non trite/cliché options are far smaller than the choices available for free verse.

Contrary to Bogusbrig's assertion:

. . .
Though to use an analogy. Traditional structured verse is like academic painting and one of the reasons artists rebeled against it was because they found it curtailed their creativity with arbitary rules that had no solid foundation. You now find that painters with good technical skill and no creativity still paint in an academic way while the really interesting painters have to tackle the white elephant of creative freedom and anything goes. Psychologically it's far more difficult.

And so is free verse!

. . .

Stick to tradition and be boring. I'm not saying there isn't a place for it now and again but it is only one option now. Thankfully.

I tend to feel that artists/poets who reject traditional 'forms' (e.g. rhyme and metre) do so from 'lack of creative ability' and the inability to find something new to say or paint in a traditional way.

Just my opinion

 

[bogusbrig]

Contrary to Bogusbrig's assertion: I tend to feel that artists/poets who reject traditional 'forms' (e.g. rhyme and metre) do so from 'lack of creative ability' and the inability to find something new to say or paint in a traditional way.

Just my opinion

I'm struggling to think of an academic painter or sculptor that is doing something interesting at the moment but I'm willing to be corrected.

The same goes for poetry.

And why are traditional forms so important? Is there some commandment somewhere saying traditional is a superior art form?

 

[Rybka]

I'm struggling to think of an academic painter or sculptor that is doing something interesting at the moment but I'm willing to be corrected.

The same goes for poetry.

And why are traditional forms so important? Is there some commandment somewhere saying traditional is a superior art form?

First point: Me neither, but what does that prove? Most people cannot speak proper English either.
Second point: No, but the traditional forms were developed first and have been around for quite some time. I wonder why? - By your logic do want to posit that Rap music is better than all other forms because it is newer?

 

[bogusbrig]

First point: Me neither, but what does that prove? Most people cannot speak proper English either.
Second point: No, but the traditional forms were developed first and have been around for quite some time. I wonder why? - By your logic do want to posit that Rap music is better than all other forms because it is newer?

I've never actually associated rap with music but in regard to things being developed first so was the model T Ford and while it would be nice to own one because of its historical value, I wouldn't like to have to drive around in one all the time.

 

[TheRainMan]

.....the traditional forms were developed first and have been around for quite some time. I wonder why? - By your logic do want to posit that Rap music is better than all other forms because it is newer?

Poetry, like everything, has changed over the course of time. Whether that change has been evolution or devolution is debatable, I suppose, but it is a simple fact that free verse is the poetry of the here and now, just as form poetry was the poetry of the there and then.

Traditional poetry may still be around, but it sure is covered with rust. Rightly or wrongly, form poetry has been pushed into a lonely corner, just as the iron wheel has been leaned against the barnboards for the rubber one, and in the modern world of writing it is now dominated by free verse.

I suspect the reason is that free verse simply ‘speaks’ the language of our world today better.

The iron wheel preceded the rubber one, but it's not the newness that makes the second better than the first. It is the relevance, the functionality, the contact with the road.

And the comfort of the passengers.

 

[annaswirls]

beautifully written. you should be a poet or something.

Poetry, like everything, has changed over the course of time. Whether that change has been evolution or devolution is debatable, I suppose, but it is a simple fact that free verse is the poetry of the here and now, just as form poetry was the poetry of the there and then.

Traditional poetry may still be around, but it sure is covered with rust. Rightly or wrongly, form poetry has been pushed into a lonely corner, just as the iron wheel has been leaned against the barnboards for the rubber one, and in the modern world of writing it is now dominated by free verse.

I suspect the reason is that free verse simply ‘speaks’ the language of our world today better.

The iron wheel preceded the rubber one, but is not the newness that makes the second better than the first. It is the relevance, the functionality, the contact with the road.

And the comfort of the passengers.

 

[TheRainMan]

beautifully written. you should be a poet or something.

I think I'll give the "or something" a try.

 

[oggbashan]

How not to do it...

Free Verse
I’ll be curt and terse: I hate free verse
My poetry without rhyme a waste of my time
I’ll even be frank; I detest verse that is blank
Unless – this I confess, it isn’t just a mess.
It seems that free verse gets worse and worse
Art that’s unconfined needs a subtle mind
The brain of Homer, or some ancient moaner
Regretting glories past, or reliving a fast.
Poetry requires skill, say what you will
Shape and rhyme, even metre no crime
Yet in this exercise, all must I exorcise
Trying to prove all, to gain tutor’s approval.

Basic ABC
A blank: can’t do every former goal.
Help. I’ll juxtapose kind little metrical norms
Or produce quaint really sterile triolets:
Unusual voices warning
Xenophobic youthful zeros.

Og

 

[flyguy69]

I'm struggling to think of an academic painter or sculptor that is doing something interesting at the moment but I'm willing to be corrected.

....

Damn that placid pot!

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

ok, while I will admit that I am not a fan of rap as a genre there is this one band that made me broaden my horizons, "Faithless" if you have not heard of them you should check them out...while the music itself is electronica the lyric's are rap. The seamless flow of the music is amazing and hypnotic.

now, I would like to point out that we should be taking each artist, poet and musician on a more personal basis rather then lumping them all together...ie. I don't like rap or say impressionism...I can say, I don't like some impressionism but I love Monet... or some rap but until I meet it on a personal basis I will reserve my judgment. As I believe one should do when it comes to everything in life...including free verse.

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

Poetry, like everything, has changed over the course of time. Whether that change has been evolution or devolution is debatable, I suppose, but it is a simple fact that free verse is the poetry of the here and now, just as form poetry was the poetry of the there and then.

Traditional poetry may still be around, but it sure is covered with rust. Rightly or wrongly, form poetry has been pushed into a lonely corner, just as the iron wheel has been leaned against the barnboards for the rubber one, and in the modern world of writing it is now dominated by free verse.

I suspect the reason is that free verse simply ‘speaks’ the language of our world today better.

The iron wheel preceded the rubber one, but it's not the newness that makes the second better than the first. It is the relevance, the functionality, the contact with the road.

And the comfort of the passengers.

perfectly spoken TRM.

 

[flyguy69]

Is 'Free Verse'
a way of avoiding a careful and creative use of the language?

Ishmael

No. It is a way of avoiding having to pay for poetry.

 

[twelveoone]

First point: Me neither, but what does that prove? Most people cannot speak proper English either.
Second point: No, but the traditional forms were developed first and have been around for quite some time. I wonder why? - By your logic do want to posit that Rap music is better than all other forms because it is newer?

Your words:

Cummings was my major influence at the time I wrote this.

The poem is merely meant to be two takes on the old saw that if you don't learn from history/mistakes they/you are bound to repeat it/them.

that staid man of tradition, especially regarding capitalization

 

[Rybka]

Hobgoblins!

 

[BooMerengue]

a way of avoiding a careful and creative use of the language?

Ishmael

I think so. Yes. For some. A lot. Most. Yes.

 

[annaswirls]

I think I'll give the "or something" a try.

So how did it go? Details at 11?

 

[annaswirls]

I am just amazed at the intelligent discussion going on from a person who posted on a "truth or dare" mission.

Free Verse allows me to concentrate on the language, the message intended, the story intended, using form makes me concentrate on the form. It is distracting for me to read and to write. When I read a rhyming poem, my mind starts to predict the next word before I have read it.

Of course, Tom Petty and Bob Dylan are two people who can use surprising rhyme and damn my favorite examples have disappeared from my mind, but most rhyme is forced, painfully predictable and boring.

Johnny's in the basement mixin up the medicine
I'm on the pavement thinkin bout the goverment
man in a trenchcoat badge out laid off
says he's got a bad cough
want's to get it paid off

look out kid somthin ya did
god knows when
but your doin it again

better duck down the alleyway
lookin for a new friend

man in a coonskin cap and a pigpen
wants 11 dollar bills
you only got ten

 

[anniebug's man]

Poetry, like everything, has changed over the course of time. Whether that change has been evolution or devolution is debatable, I suppose, but it is a simple fact that free verse is the poetry of the here and now, just as form poetry was the poetry of the there and then.

Traditional poetry may still be around, but it sure is covered with rust. Rightly or wrongly, form poetry has been pushed into a lonely corner, just as the iron wheel has been leaned against the barnboards for the rubber one, and in the modern world of writing it is now dominated by free verse.

I suspect the reason is that free verse simply ‘speaks’ the language of our world today better.

The iron wheel preceded the rubber one, but it's not the newness that makes the second better than the first. It is the relevance, the functionality, the contact with the road.

And the comfort of the passengers.

This is, in my humble opinion, the correct observation. What hasn't been tackled however, is why this is so? In other words, it would require a a theory of knowledge that develops the relationship between human consciousness development and the form it chooses for it's artistiic expression. Note, that prose as art is a fairly recent development.

 

[twelveoone]

I'm struggling to think of an academic painter or sculptor that is doing something interesting at the moment but I'm willing to be corrected.

The same goes for poetry.

And why are traditional forms so important? Is there some commandment somewhere saying traditional is a superior art form?

Ah, Tradition doing a little dance

Her tethe hyng overe her lyppes,
Her chekys syde as wemens hippes.
A lute she bare upon her bak;
Her nek long and therto greatt;
Her here cloteryd on an hepe;
In the sholders she was a yard brode.
Hangyng pappys to be an hors lode,
And lyke a barelle she was made.
And to reherse the fowlnesse of that Lady,
Ther is no tung may telle, securly;
Of lothynesse inowghe she had.
She satt on a palfray was gay begon,
With gold besett and many a precious stone.
Ther was an unsemely syghte:
So fowlle a creature withoute mesure

Hey Bog, Tzara, I think this is either written in Scouse, or Norwedgian, can you translate this for me? I found it in a cup.

 

[Tzara]

Ah, Tradition doing a little dance

Her tethe hyng overe her lyppes,
Her chekys syde as wemens hippes.
A lute she bare upon her bak;
Her nek long and therto greatt;
Her here cloteryd on an hepe;
In the sholders she was a yard brode.
Hangyng pappys to be an hors lode,
And lyke a barelle she was made.
And to reherse the fowlnesse of that Lady,
Ther is no tung may telle, securly;
Of lothynesse inowghe she had.
She satt on a palfray was gay begon,
With gold besett and many a precious stone.
Ther was an unsemely syghte:
So fowlle a creature withoute mesure

Hey Bog, Tzara, I think this is either written in Scouse, or Norwedgian, can you translate this for me? I found it in a cup.

Well, I probably could translate this, but I don't think I'm gawaine to try.

 

[bogusbrig]

Ah, Tradition doing a little dance

Her tethe hyng overe her lyppes,
Her chekys syde as wemens hippes.
A lute she bare upon her bak;
Her nek long and therto greatt;
Her here cloteryd on an hepe;
In the sholders she was a yard brode.
Hangyng pappys to be an hors lode,
And lyke a barelle she was made.
And to reherse the fowlnesse of that Lady,
Ther is no tung may telle, securly;
Of lothynesse inowghe she had.
She satt on a palfray was gay begon,
With gold besett and many a precious stone.
Ther was an unsemely syghte:
So fowlle a creature withoute mesure

Hey Bog, Tzara, I think this is either written in Scouse, or Norwedgian, can you translate this for me? I found it in a cup.

Precisely my point 1201. What is the point of tradition verse if you haven't got a tankard of mead and a lusty wench on your knee.

Her teeth hung over her lips
Her cheeks the size of a woman's hips
I lute she carried on her back
Her neck was long a thick

In her shoulders she was a yard broad
Hanging tits to be a whore's load
And like a barrel she was made

I give up. My guess it is from Geordieland somewhere but it is only a guess.

 

[Ishmael]

Yes, there is 'tradition' verse. And then there's the sonnets and other great works.

Free verse unfetters one from having to match, let alone surpass, the past giants.

Let me be clear though. There is some free verse that I do like. Well constructed without nebulous meaning. Or at least clear enough that readers are left to debate the nuances. But what I am expressing here is a personal opinion. Nothing more.

I know that there are a great many officianados of free verse that believe in nothing else. It was a debate that Frost and Sandburg took to their graves. I just happen to side with Frost.

Ishmael

 

[twelveoone]

Precisely my point 1201. What is the point of tradition verse if you haven't got a tankard of mead and a lusty wench on your knee.

Her teeth hung over her lips
Her cheeks the size of a woman's hips
I lute she carried on her back
Her neck was long a thick

In her shoulders she was a yard broad
Hanging tits to be a whore's load
And like a barrel she was made

I give up. My guess it is from Geordieland somewhere but it is only a guess.

Hangyng pappys to be an hors lode,
And lyke a barelle she was made.

Ay, the classics

Ay, call me Ishmael
Calls me anything
but Whale's meal

 

[Angeline]

Yes, there is 'tradition' verse. And then there's the sonnets and other great works.

Free verse unfetters one from having to match, let alone surpass, the past giants.

Let me be clear though. There is some free verse that I do like. Well constructed without nebulous meaning. Or at least clear enough that readers are left to debate the nuances. But what I am expressing here is a personal opinion. Nothing more.

I know that there are a great many officianados of free verse that believe in nothing else. It was a debate that Frost and Sandburg took to their graves. I just happen to side with Frost.

Ishmael

I think most people here know it's just your opinion and wouldn't try to convince you otherwise--it wouldn't work and we're marginally more polite here than on the GB.

Maybe some people who are writing free verse are neither trying to match nor surpass the great writers of yore. I write both form and free and while I'd love to get more people interested in sonnets, etc., I think it's true that most people don't see ways to stretch forms and make something fresh of them. That's fine--to each his/her own.

I love Yeats' poems, but to write like Yeats--even if what I produced were deemed as good or better--to me is imitation. That doesn't interest me though I know he (and other writers I love) influence my style. The only person I'm trying to match or surpass as a writer is me.

 

[BooMerengue]

Her teeth hung over her lips
cheeks wide as womens hips
a lute she bore upon her back
her neck long and not great (lol)
her hair in a cluttered heap
she was broad in the shoulders
with breasts hanging like a whores
T'was shaped like a barrell
and to tell the foulness of the Lady
there is no tongue would tell it right

she sat on a horse who had seen better days
the gold and jewels she wore
were an unfitting sight
She was so foul a creature

Is that close? Doesn't matter- I had fun!