is it rape?

[flowerpetal]

i went ahead and registered under this name so that i don't get impersonated.

i was hoping that people would be happy for me that he agreed to stop doing what he kept trying to do... i thank you all for caring so much.. this was really very unexpected.

normally my sex drive is not low at all in fact quite the opposite... i have no clue why i feel how i feel but i am going to do a "paid" (yay money) study to find out so that ought to be interesting to say the least.

yes nicole i think i am who you are thinking of, and although i am not really all "that" nice (but glad you seem to think so..)... PLEASE don't "out" me okay? i really really really do NOT want anyone to know it is me.... he has agreed to stop, and that is what matters and contrary to what people are thinking (which they are only thinking because of my stupid wording) he really is a sweet and smart guy.

thank you to everyone who has responded.

 

[Nicole]

Oh God I really didn't want to hear that.

I am so so sorry, and I am now in tears because you know what I feel about you.

Babe weather he has stopped or not you both need to go get some help on this ... Please don't try to do this by yourself. You have to promise that okay.

Oh babe I wanna hug you so tight right now. And please know that myself and others are there for you.

Please please take care of yourself ... We are all here for you.

I'm sorry but you are one of the nicest people that I know and this has really upset me. I'm sitting here right now crying my eyes out. You please take care of yourself.

 

[*Eve*]

No means no, and if someone disregards that request even a husband, then of course it's rape.

Your husband may have decided to cool it now but you two might need some couseling so this thing won't rear it's ugly head once more.

 

[flowerpetal]

Oh God I really didn't want to hear that.

I am so so sorry, and I am now in tears because you know what I feel about you.

Babe weather he has stopped or not you both need to go get some help on this ... Please don't try to do this by yourself. You have to promise that okay.

Oh babe I wanna hug you so tight right now. And please know that myself and others are there for you.

Please please take care of yourself ... We are all here for you.

I'm sorry but you are one of the nicest people that I know and this has really upset me. I'm sitting here right now crying my eyes out. You please take care of yourself.

oh nicole!!!

(((((((((((nicole))))))))))))

oh please don't cry!
i didn't mean to upset you! i promise!

you know, i read something once and wanted to share it with you although I don't remember the exact quote...

it was something along the lines of... "the good that you see in others... is generally a reflection of the good that others see in you... and the same thing goes for the bad."

what i mean by that is that you thinking i am nice, whether true or not, you are only able to see in me b/c more than likely... that is how others see you , (whether you realize that or not)... and i know that I certainly see you that way.

gosh now i am hoping that i am not who you thought i was just so that you can feel better! i care about you too so
please don't be sad.. i really am okay!

 

[Guest]

FlowerPetal - I believe you when you say you love your husband and I'm sure that in many ways he is often nice to you in every day life but the fact is that by having sex with you against your will he's abusing you. You say "No" and he still carries on.

You maybe think that "rape" is too harsh a word 'cause he's your husband and you love him but the reality is that he is raping you. I think that deep in your heart you already know this to be true. You must obviously have been very upset, scared and angry with him to bring such a difficult subject up on the bulletin board. Even if a lot of the time he isn't hurting you, he's using his strength and your fear of him to force you to do something you don't want to do. It doesn't matter what the law does or doesn't say, FlowerPetal, what he is doing is very wrong.

From the conversation you printed it looks like even when he isn't forcing you, he is using other ways of pressurising you to have sex when you don't want to. He seems to be trying to make you feel guilty when you don't want to "put out". This can't be doing your self-confidence any good. I'm sure the reason your sexdrive is low just now is because your scared, stressed out and feeling very low.

Do you think that maybe you're wary of making "too much of a fuss" about this 'cause you're afraid it might lead to you splitting with your husband? If you're feeling depressed and laing in self-confidence because of the way he's treating you, I can fully understand why you might be scared of being alone - you're probably wondering how you'd be able to cope by yourself. I think this is why it is important for you to speak to other people - preferably your local rape crisis centre. You need support just now, FlowerPetal. You need to talk to people who can help you decide what to do with your life. It's not going to do you any good to carry on in the situation as it is.

I'm sure it's not an easy decision for you to make but it seems to me that either your husband has got to drastically change the way he's treating you and realise that what he's doing is very wrong or you've got to find a way of leaving him.

I used to work as a psychiatric nurse here in Scotland. For a while I nursed a woman who was very depressed and had been suffering from flu-like symptoms for many months. For weeks she told the psychiatrist, the nurses and the other patients in the group meetings that she could think of no reason why she felt so bad. But deep inside she knew the reason was that her husband was having sex with her when she was sleeping. She often woke up to find him on top of her. She knew in her heart that this was wrong - that her husband was abusing her. It was only when she admitted it to herself and spoke about it in group that she was able to cry about it, decide what she wanted to do with her life and ultimately start to feel better about herself.

[Edited by Roger Simian on 08-03-2000 at 04:15 PM]

 

[Patryn]

Okay, here's the deal. You don't need to change for this asshole. You don't need to go to a study to find out what's "wrong" with you. You don't need to be more clear. If you have to fight him off MOST of the time, something's wrong with him. He DOES know that he won't die without sex, doesn't he? If you don't want it, you don't want it. You don't need a reason. "No" is your reason. Please don't let this dickhead think for you, or make you think there's something wrong with you...there's not.

And don't blame your "stupid wording" either. You asked if it was RAPE for god's sake. You don't mistake rape for anything else. If you're afraid of him, find help. I've seen this so many times in abusive relationships "Well, he rapes me, slaps me around and tells me I'm ugly. He even killed one of our children...but he's basically a really sweet guy".

Sorry, but when people try to "change" what they mean for the sake of someone else, it just really shits me off.

 

[Sue]

Sex drive...

normally my sex drive is not low at all in fact quite the opposite...

My sex drive wouldn't be very high either if my husband at all, ever, coerced me in any to have sex with him, much less held me down to do it.

In fact, it would probably be nonexistant.

 

[Jade]

he learned real fast that when I said "NO!" I meant it. Granted I had to get a little physical myself and give him a good knee to the groin but he learned and never tried again.

Wow! Just had to interrupt the thread and say....
You go girl!

 

[Guest]

smells like a set up

 

[Sinsual]

flowerpetal...
I'm new to the board, but after reading this post i needed to let you know that you are not alone. A husband can have a very big influence on his wife, whether it is physical abuse or emotional. I have been there hon. It is not easy to have sex with someone when you don't want to. Its mentally harmful to you. It makes you think less of yourself and makes you feel like you are not worthy of more. There may not be bruises on the outside. They are inside. As with any rape the emotional turmoil is tremendous. Perhaps more so because you love this man. It is hard to understand why he would want you to do something you don't want to do if he loves you. Sexual relationships should be mutually pleasurable. Noone should have to do anything they don't want to do. I stayed with my husband for years and dreaded going to bed every night, not because I don't enjoy sex, but I didn't enjoy it with him. He didn't make me feel desirable or loved. I felt like a possession. The state of mind I was in wouldn't allow me to enjoy anything we did together. I was never "allowed" to say "NO". He accused me of having other men if I said no. So I did the easiest thing and just let him have his way. I shouldn't of done that. Many nights I felt ashamed and I felt violated. It never seemed to matter if I responded to him. Just so I didn't say "NO". Well, I have come along way from that. Divorcing him and couldn't be happier with myself and will never be with a man I don't desire again. The pleasures a man and woman can share are above any other pleasure I have ever known. You must be with someone that want to be with though. Otherwise you are letting yourself down. So be good to yourself flower, and only do what you want to do. Your emotions need that. You have the strength. Find it in yourself. I finally did.

 

[Monaco]

Is it rape?

Yes. It is rape. Rape is not about sex, it's about power. And child, when he takes you against your will, he shuts down your most fundamental right (and need): that of self-determination. Robbing you of it, no matter what the reasonning, is the highest form of abuse known to mankind. Recognize that. Recognize that for those minutes during which he is pleasuring himself at your expense (and pain), you do not exist as an equal, or even as a human being. You are his play-thing, his slave. Nothing more. That is inexcusable. Recognize it.

Recognize also that you are to be your body's ONLY god. It is your soul's temple. Act accordingly. Respect it, and yourself.

As for the rest of the thread: Are there deeper issues involved in your relationship? No doubt. But no matter what those issues are, pressuring you into sex, forcing it upon you is nothing even remotely close to healthy. There has to be a better way. There is. It's up to you to build up the courage to find it. Good luck.

M.

-------------------
Whenever I take this self-righteous tone, feel free to slap me upside the head... like now, for instance

 

[Sue]

More of us...

-------------------
Whenever I take this self-righteous tone, feel free to slap me upside the head... like now, for instance

need to remember this.

 

[flowerpetal]

FlowerPetal - I believe you when you say you love your husband and I'm sure that in many ways he is often nice to you in every day life but the fact is that by having sex with you against your will he's abusing you. You say "No" and he still carries on.

[Edited by Roger Simian on 08-03-2000 at 04:15 PM]

sometimes I think what it is, is that i say no too late.
sometimes he has already initialized foreplay and then i say no. he is feeling very sexually frusturated. we have had many conversations about this and the feeling from him is that if i don't have sex with him (or don't want to anyway) then it is because i do not find him attractive and that we may as well be brother and sister or "just friends."
he is so horribly upset when he does not get sex and really can't imagine any guy living with someone he loves and is attracted to and her not making him feel attractive by having sex with him.

and yet, i agree with you. i do feel like my feelings don't matter as much when he ignores my pleas.

You maybe think that "rape" is too harsh a word 'cause he's your husband and you love him but the reality is that he is raping you. I think that deep in your heart you already know this to be true. You must obviously have been very upset, scared and angry with him to bring such a difficult subject up on the bulletin board. Even if a lot of the time he isn't hurting you, he's using his strength and your fear of him to force you to do something you don't want to do. It doesn't matter what the law does or doesn't say, FlowerPetal, what he is doing is very wrong.

From the conversation you printed it looks like even when he isn't forcing you, he is using other ways of pressurising you to have sex when you don't want to. He seems to be trying to make you feel guilty when you don't want to "put out". This can't be doing your self-confidence any good. I'm sure the reason your sexdrive is low just now is because your scared, stressed out and feeling very low.

[Edited by Roger Simian on 08-03-2000 at 04:15 PM]

i know it is hard to believe and it makes me sound like an idiot but seriously, often enough it really is my fault. if i didn't lead him on it wouldn't happen. i know i need to be more forceful and i am a very strong person. i know that screaming typically is the type of behavior that makes him stop, but when he does he totally pouts. he gets really angry and mopes around the house and basically goes into a great speech about how i don't want him. that makes me feel sooo incredibly bad.
i know that by asking if it was rape i was overreacting but i don't know what the correct term is. i just DON'T want to have sex with him at all!
it just makes me very uncomfortable. so what the fuck is the matter with me to not want to have sex with my own husband?!

Do you think that maybe you're wary of making "too much of a fuss" about this 'cause you're afraid it might lead to you splitting with your husband? If you're feeling depressed and laing in self-confidence because of the way he's treating you, I can fully understand why you might be scared of being alone - you're probably wondering how you'd be able to cope by yourself. I think this is why it is important for you to speak to other people - preferably your local rape crisis centre. You need support just now, FlowerPetal. You need to talk to people who can help you decide what to do with your life. It's not going to do you any good to carry on in the situation as it is.

I'm sure it's not an easy decision for you to make but it seems to me that either your husband has got to drastically change the way he's treating you and realise that what he's doing is very wrong or you've got to find a way of leaving him.

[Edited by Roger Simian on 08-03-2000 at 04:15 PM]

the honest truth is, i have tried to leave him before.
i feel so horrible admitting that but it is true.
however, there is just no way. i know it is hard for people to understand... people who can stand on their own so well and everything but there is just no way for me, not now anyway, and probably not ever.

i could never ever hurt him. besides, he would kill himself, he is sooo obsessive and i can't let that happen.
but there are other reasons too.
for one thing, i have never really been on my own, i dont' know what the fuck i would do or how to do it.
i don't even have a college degree yet and
also WAY too many people would get hurt.
for example his grandparents totally adore me, and it would break them if i felt their grandson...
my parents have enough heartache with my sister as it is. i am the "good" kid.. i am not supposed to give them problems and as it is i have caused them enough heartache.

they may sound like a bunch of excuses that are easy to criticize but they are the truth.

I used to work as a psychiatric nurse here in Scotland. For a while I nursed a woman who was very depressed and had been suffering from flu-like symptoms for many months. For weeks she told the psychiatrist, the nurses and the other patients in the group meetings that she could think of no reason why she felt so bad. But deep inside she knew the reason was that her husband was having sex with her when she was sleeping. She often woke up to find him on top of her. She knew in her heart that this was wrong - that her husband was abusing her. It was only when she admitted it to herself and spoke about it in group that she was able to cry about it, decide what she wanted to do with her life and ultimately start to feel better about herself.

[Edited by Roger Simian on 08-03-2000 at 04:15 PM]

okay well hmmm, i didn't know it was wrong to have sex with someone in their sleep? he tries to do that to me all the time, but often i am pretending to be asleep because i don't want to do it awake.
is that really honestly abuse when they do that in your sleep??

i really do think that communication is a huge key in fixing all of this for me and my husband, it is just that a part of me is frusturated, even with that, as if i don't want to deal with it. it is just so completely stressful!
thanks so much roger for your detailed and well thought out response.
it is so nice to know that someone really cares.

 

[flowerpetal]

Okay, here's the deal. You don't need to change for this asshole. You don't need to go to a study to find out what's "wrong" with you. You don't need to be more clear. If you have to fight him off MOST of the time, something's wrong with him. He DOES know that he won't die without sex, doesn't he? If you don't want it, you don't want it. You don't need a reason. "No" is your reason. Please don't let this dickhead think for you, or make you think there's something wrong with you...there's not.

And don't blame your "stupid wording" either. You asked if it was RAPE for god's sake. You don't mistake rape for anything else. If you're afraid of him, find help. I've seen this so many times in abusive relationships "Well, he rapes me, slaps me around and tells me I'm ugly. He even killed one of our children...but he's basically a really sweet guy".

Sorry, but when people try to "change" what they mean for the sake of someone else, it just really shits me off.

patryn,

you are so strong and powerful and i truly admire you.

i think the fighting off thing is just something he enjoys and apparently he thought it was a game for me too which was a problem.

he is like a completely different person otherwise and he doesn't slap me around or tell me i am ugly or anything, in fact he compliments me all the time!

thank you for respoding and i hope that what i have said changes your thoughts on my husband.

sinsual and monaco... thanks for the confidence... i am trying, i really am i promise you.

 

[Sue]

You know...

okay well hmmm, i didn't know it was wrong to have sex with someone in their sleep? he tries to do that to me all the time, but often i am pretending to be asleep because i don't want to do it awake.
is that really honestly abuse when they do that in your sleep??
[/B]

either we are either being led down the garden path, this girl is 10 years old...or she's in _serious_ trouble.

 

[Patryn]

I'm beginning to think we're talking to ourselves here. I'm known for being blunt, soooo.....

NO ONE has said that it's not rape, and given a million reasons why. Flower refuses to listen, and comes up with excuse after excuse after excuse why her husband isn't doing anything wrong. She's clearly in an abusive, manipulative relationship, but until SHE realizes that she needs help, nothing we say will change a damn thing.

If all of this is made up...well, that was an exceedingly shitty thing to do.

 

[Angelique]

I, for one, do not believe that Flower has made any of this up, nor do I believe that she realizes the ramifications of staying in the relationship.

As I said before in an older post, I've watched my own mother stay in an abusive relationship. Whether it's mental abuse, sexual abuse or physical abuse, it's still abuse. And from what I've seen firsthand, it's very common for the abused person to justify all of the reasons why they should stay in this type of relationship.

I've watched my mother list one good thing for each bad thing in thier relationship. The problem I see in doing this is that it's not a matter of how many good things can offset the bad things, rather each individual action should be given a certain "weight", so to speak.

So Flower, as you list all of the reasons shy you should stay, and all of the reasons why it's unhealthy to stay, please give each item a specific value. My guess is that when you add up the values, you'll find that your current relationship with your husband may not be healthy enough for you to remain in.

On another note, there is one thing that really concerns me. FP, you used mentioned that your husband is soooo obsessive. That word "obsessive" frightens me, and indicates a more serious problem than what you initially began this thread with.

Please be safe, and give some serious thought to each and every post on your thread. It's obvious to me that you have many friends here on the board...I have a hunch I've befriended you here recently (although I could be wrong), so anytime you feel a need to talk or vent, I'm always available.

Good Luck, sweetie.
*hugs*
-Angel

 

[Sue]

Sigh...

I, for one, do not believe that Flower has made any of this up, nor do I believe that she realizes the ramifications of staying in the relationship.

As I said before in an older post, I've watched my own mother stay in an abusive relationship. Whether it's mental abuse, sexual abuse or physical abuse, it's still abuse. And from what I've seen firsthand, it's very common for the abused person to justify all of the reasons why they should stay in this type of relationship.

guess I'm the hard-ass here...not gonna make any new friends this way.

Flower speaks the right words, says the right things, but it just doesn't ring true. I've BEEN in an abusive relationship, both physically and emotionally, and though for the longest time I justified eveything that happened, when I finally started to speak of it the walls just kind of crumbled.

But as Patryn says, maybe I only feel like this because you can't anyone who doesn't have some desire to help themselves. And it's very frustrating.

 

[Sue]

Bending over...

waiting for Angelique or whoever to give me a swift kick...instead of a nice spanking.

 

[Guest]

sometimes I think what it is, is that i say no too late.
sometimes he has already initialized foreplay and then i say no.

It doesn't matter when you say it, Flowerpetal. If you say "no" it means you want to stop. Your husband should stop whenever you tell him to.

we have had many conversations about this and the feeling from him is that if i don't have sex with him (or don't want to anyway) then it is because i do not find him attractive and that we may as well be brother and sister or "just friends."

This is what I was talking about in my last post. He's trying to pressurise you by making you feel guilty. That's not fair.

i know that screaming typically is the type of behavior that makes him stop, but when he does he totally pouts.

He should stop when you say "no". You shouldn't have to scream to stop him.

i know that by asking if it was rape i was overreacting but i don't know what the correct term is.

I don't think you were overreacting, Flowerpetal. If he has sex with you against your will - that's rape whether or not you're married to him and whether or not he actually hurts you.

i just DON'T want to have sex with him at all!
it just makes me very uncomfortable. so what the fuck is the matter with me to not want to have sex with my own husband?!

There's nothing wrong with you. I'm sure you would only want to have sex with someone if you are relaxed with them and totally trust them - even if you are married to them. The way your husband is treating you just now, it's totally understandable why you would find it hard to relax with him. He isn't treating you with any kind of respect. I think that your lack of interest in sex just now is a natural reaction to being in an abusive relationship. Your body's telling you that you're unhappy with the way things are.

the honest truth is, i have tried to leave him before.
i feel so horrible admitting that but it is true.
however, there is just no way. i know it is hard for people to understand... people who can stand on their own so well and everything but there is just no way for me, not now anyway, and probably not ever.

I realise that the thought of being alone must be frightening to you but if you stay in this relationship, you're husband has got to drastically change his attitude towards you. He's got to realise that the reason you don't want to have sex with him is because of the terrible way he's treating you.

Perhaps you should try to seek professional help. It'd be good if you could see a marriage guidance counsellor together AND ALSO speak to someone from the local rape crisis centre or a women's group alone - just yourself. You need support to help you with whichever course of action you decide to take, Flowerpetal. Have a look in the Yellow Pages or find out through your local doctor's surgery.

i could never ever hurt him. besides, he would kill himself, he is sooo obsessive and i can't let that happen.
but there are other reasons too.
for one thing, i have never really been on my own, i dont' know what the fuck i would do or how to do it.
i don't even have a college degree yet and
also WAY too many people would get hurt.
for example his grandparents totally adore me, and it would break them if i felt their grandson... my parents have enough heartache with my sister as it is. i am the "good" kid.. i am not supposed to give them problems and as it is i have caused them enough heartache.

Don't be pressurised by other people. You're a person too, you know. You're the one that's being hurt here. Maybe it's time you gave yourself some of the love and attention you obviously give those around you. Think of yourself for once - that doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you selfish. You obviously care very much about the people around you. You should care for yourself, too.

okay well hmmm, i didn't know it was wrong to have sex with someone in their sleep? he tries to do that to me all the time, but often i am pretending to be asleep because i don't want to do it awake.
is that really honestly abuse when they do that in your sleep??

Yes - that's abuse, Flowerpetal. If you're asleep you haven't given your consent for him to have sex with you. It's the same as if you were unconscious. Tell him he must stop this. It's wrong.

I hope everything works out for you. Take care.

 

[Angelique]

I do agree that you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. But I don't think it's common for an abused person to wake up one day and say "ok, I need help. I'm outa here right now!" without going back and forth on whether they feel it's the "right" thing to do. Whenever anyone ponders making a life-changing decision, it's only natural to be unsure.

My take on it, is that FP is just now realizing that the relationship she's in isn't healthy. It's my opinion that this is her first realization...and there will more than likely be many more.

Sue, I'm not about to give you a swift kick in the ass...I'm sorry to hear that you've been involved in abuse at all. I grew up in an abusive environment...my dads abuse wasn't limited to just my mother. It took me up until three years ago to finally stand up to my father, and it wasn't a pretty sight. 27 years of taking his crap...and I finally decided to stand up for myself. That's probably because I was so damn insecure with myself...even though I knew it was wrong, I couldn't break away because my father always "made it up to me" in one way or another.

So, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[flowerpetal]

angelique... yes we are friends, and i am so glad that we are... thank you for not doubting me.


i am so hurt right now that so many of you don't even believe me..
do you know what it has been like for me to start this thread?
do you know how humiliating it has been like for me at all?
no i suppose you don't
i have so many fears.. i am so worried that i will meet some of you one day and my husband will be there and you are going to all give him dirty looks and he will wonder what i have said about him

i am trying so hard to be rational about everything
i have been so completely and openly honest here (with the exception of my identity of course) and it was so disheartening to come here today and read all of these posts where people are doubting the things i am saying.

perhaps admitting and talking about what i have talked about here was a bad idea.
i am sorry to sound like a babbling idiot and if i have offended or pissed anyone off. i am just so upset right now.

and NO, i am not a 10 year old girl (i refuse to address who said that)... i happen to be an adult.
but thank you for adding insult to injury.
i really did not know about the sex in the sleep thing...i had a friend that thought it was erotic and i was never educated about such a scenario.
i am going to go call a 1-800 counseling number now thanks to the suggestions of people that seem to care and who believe the truth.

as for those who don't believe me, i hope you never have to be made to feel the way you have made me feel.... it really sucks when you trust someone and share the most intimate details of your life with them and they scoff in your face.
good bye

 

[Sue]

Thanks Angelique

Sue, I'm not about to give you a swift kick in the ass...I'm sorry to hear that you've been involved in abuse at all.

So, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Your opinion is worth a lot. I don't mean to be uncaring. I care a lot. Maybe that's the problem.

Hugs to all, especially FlowerPetal.

 

[April]

flowerpetal, I'm not even going to run down the list of things wrong with your relationship! Listen up! This is not how marriage is supposed to be. This is not how sex is supposed to be. This is not love!

This is wrong!!!

He manipulates your feeling so that you feel bad for what he did wrong. He is physically using you for his pleasure. He is selfish, uncaring, and sick. And wrong! You are in an abusive relationship, and if you don't take measures now to either fix it or get out, it WILL get worse.

Don't let your self-opinion get beaten down. That's what he's trying to do to you. It's easier for him to use you if you think that's what you deserve! Do yourself a favor. Go to one of the rape counselors you work with. Or ones you don't, if that's easier. Tell them your story. Let them decide. Often a counselor can't clearly see their own situation. It takes someone removed from the situation to see it for what it is. You've started by asking us, and we've given our opinion. Don't stop there. You know what he is doing to you is wrong. If you thought it was right, you wouldn't have asked the question.

It is wrong, and don't let him continue this behavior. This is not love, it is abuse! Get help now!

I hope this is not too over the top and strident, but it's how I feel about this. Flowerpetal, I do care, and if you want to talk to me, my info is in my profile.

[Edited by April on 08-04-2000 at 03:07 PM]

 

[Sue]

I said that...

and NO, i am not a 10 year old girl (i refuse to address who said that)... i happen to be an adult.
but thank you for adding insult to injury.
good bye

and I apologize. You still don't have to address me.

But understand please, those words come from a woman who was once almost choked to death by her ever-loving loving...he stopped when I passed out. From someone who has been kicked, intimidated, hit, ridiculed, locked out of the bedroom, and lots of other stuff I don't even remember because I don't WANT to remember. The last incident was a torn dress...he didn't hurt me...

And I'm still with him. 'Sue' speaks for me as the woman I wish I was.

Don't leave this board on my account, FlowerPetal. I'll keep my peace now.