Is it stealing, or is it my own story?

[EmilyMiller]

I love the smell of mansplaining in the morning.

Emily

 

[offkilter123]

Enlightening ignorance is not mansplaining. Although lashing out because someone calls you out for making provably erroneous statements certainly qualifies as bitchery.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Just to settle it for once and all - Avatar is actually Dances with Wolves in Space or "Dances with Aliens".

 

[lustychimera]

 

[NoviceAspen]

Aren't those the same story? Taken from the opposite points of view?

Astute.

 

[CarmineBlancheJr]

It’s a somewhat complicated area. Lifting someone else’s work, premise, plot, characters is clearly plagiarism, even if you make some superficial changes.

But no one owns the themes in their stories. You can write a story about short mythical beings living in an unspoiled rural idyl and then going on a quest in which they encounter other species and the wider world. Maybe avoid rings of power.

Ideas aren’t owned by anyone. The execution of them is covered by copyright. Inspiration is fine, slavish copying isn’t.

Emily

Maybe still write about "Rings of Power", only make them go on a different appendage. ;-)

 

[StillStunned]

Maybe still write about "Rings of Power", only make them go on a different appendage. ;-)

This is probably about 20 years old, so perhaps people don't remember it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

If James Cameron could make Avatar without being sued by Disney, I wouldn't worry too much about accusations of plagiarism.

You mean Dances with Wolves meets Ferngully?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Even most people who know Springsteen probably don't know that song.

Because Dire Straits did it better.

 

[ClaireDescending]

It’s a somewhat complicated area. Lifting someone else’s work, premise, plot, characters is clearly plagiarism, even if you make some superficial changes.

But no one owns the themes in their stories. You can write a story about short mythical beings living in an unspoiled rural idyl and then going on a quest in which they encounter other species and the wider world. Maybe avoid rings of power.

Ideas aren’t owned by anyone. The execution of them is covered by copyright. Inspiration is fine, slavish copying isn’t.

Emily

Fifty Shades is calling….

 

[AlexBailey]

FWIW:

Me:
Rewrite the quote below using all of the advice within it.

Avoid this: Don't copy specific words, sentences, or groups of words from another author; don't use the same characters, or their names; avoid exactly similar settings (e.g., don't write a story in Middle-earth unless it's a parody); avoid copying the specific important plot points of another story; don't copy dialogue.

ChatGPT:
Steer clear of replicating specific verbiage, phrases, or clusters of language from another writer; refrain from employing identical characters or their appellations; steer away from precisely akin environments (e.g., crafting a narrative within Middle-earth unless it's satirical); eschew duplicating the particular pivotal plot junctures of another tale; abstain from mimicking dialogue.

 

[ClaireDescending]

First of all, I commend you for asking this question in an open-minded, and not defensive way. It's a valid question and it's a confusing subject for many.

Copyright law is the primary guide for this issue. A crucial concept in copyright law is the difference between ideas and expression. Ideas are not copyrightable, but the unique creative expression of an idea is copyrightable.

What that means is that you are perfectly free, without concern about the law or ethics, to take the broad, basic ideas of another fiction story, and to incorporate those ideas in your story, without being concerned that you are infringing another's copyright or plagiarizing. Plagiarism is a concept that applies more accurately in the field of academic writing than in fiction. You are NOT free to copy another author's EXPRESSION of his or her ideas.

So what does this mean, practically?

Avoid this: Don't copy specific words, sentences, or groups of words from another author; don't use the same characters, or their names; avoid exactly similar settings (e.g., don't write a story in Middle-earth unless it's a parody); avoid copying the specific important plot points of another story; don't copy dialogue.

But this is OK: It's fine to take the same basic idea and write your own story. For example, I've written a story based on the "mailgirl" idea, which somebody came up with before me. There are many mailgirl stories. It's not a proprietary concept; nobody owns it and nobody can exclude others from writing their own mailgirl stories. But I don't use the same names, setting, words, or characters as other mailgirl stories.

Another example: mom and son on a seat together. It's a well-worn idea that's been tried many times. Nobody owns the idea. If you want to do it, go ahead without guilt. But come up with your own characters, words, plot points, and setting.

A fascinating story challenge would be to come up with a moderately detailed outline for a story, and have everyone write that. I bet that, while the bones may be noticeably similar, the stories themselves would be so far apart and different that it would triply underscore expression versus idea.

 

[CalebZhass]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness." - Oscar Wilde

Apart from a few rare and truly unique exceptions, we all (try to) stand on the shoulders of giants who came before us. The written history of humanity has been around for several millennia (in one form or another) and what can be written about has in all likelihood already been written about.

As I grow older, I find that more and more things I encounter I find to be repetitions of things I've seen already and I'm neither the oldest nor the most well read person on the planet Does this detract from those works? Not really. They can be good, regardless of someone else having written about the same thing already.

We can only ever really talk about plagiarism, if the work in question shows very substantial similarities to the one it was "inspired by". Very substantial, as in, you can tell which character was copied from which, what each scene is supposed to be in the original and/or you can recognize the plot down to the fine details.

A hairier question is creating something in the fictional world of someone else. Using a well established setting is not plagiarism in itself, but it definitely raises copyright questions. Fan fiction is a thing, but fan fiction kinda assumes that you share something to express your fandom with the subject, without any monetary incentive and even then the copyright holder has the right to request you to stop.

I'd probably be flattered if anyone would deem any of my creations be worth expanding upon (not that I have that many of those published just yet), but that's me and others might have other ideas.

I'd probably suggest using the old common sense advice here: if you think you might be doing something wrong, then just stop doing it, as you likely either are doing something wrong or are very close to it. Even if you are not yet there, you don't necessarily want to walk the line between right and wrong, unless you have no issues stepping on the wrong side by accident, but then you wouldn't be asking these questions in the first place.

Also let's not discount the fact, that when writing, we are usually writing about real or imaginary interactions between humans. Those interactions have a finite variety to them and as such, chances are that - given enough time to research - any story you come up with, someone has already come up with it or something quite similar to it, you just haven't seen it yet.

Two people can independent of each other have the same idea. We can't talk about plagiarism in that case, but when it comes to legalities, the one who publishes second might need to provide some proof that their work was in fact created before the first one was ever published and that they had no way of knowing about the already published work, so that their's is truly an independent creation.

 

[CalebZhass]

This is very much not true. Copyright and plagiarism are very much misunderstood on Literotica (and most sites.) Just because you say something is copyrighted does not mean that it is copyrightable. snip

You are right of course, that copyright is tricky, but plagiarism is not. Plagiarism is a concept, copyright is a law. You can plagiarize without consequences if you do it in a venue where nobody cares or you can ruin your career if you do it in a venue where they take it seriously. Likewise, plagiarism in a smaller community like if a dweller of this forum would do it, that would probably be a permanent black mark on their public image, negatively affecting their standing in the community.

Copyright on the other hand is a legal topic and as such, as much as I appreciate your efforts into highlighting US specific nuances, it's a literally minefield in an international context like this site. Those laws vary from one country to the next and often quite a lot.

The only relationship between the two really is that plagiarizing also likely inherently violates copyright, whereas just infringing on copyright might not automatically constitute plagiarism, if you only touch certain copyrighted elements, but use them differently. Though it's possible I might be mixing this up with trademarks... As I wrote above, copyright/trademark laws (and me) are dumb and extremely outdated, created for an age well before the internet.

 

[SimonDoom]

I love the smell of mansplaining in the morning.

Emily

You don't really believe that.

Allow me to explain why.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You don't really believe that.

Allow me to explain why.

We have some deep disagreements, but I’ve never felt that you treated me any differently based on gender.

Emily

 

[CarmineBlancheJr]

I start every story with the understanding that there is probably something very similar to it out there and that someone is going to eventually look at my story and say something along the lines of, "Hey, that must have been inspired by XYZ because that is what it reminds me of."

And so, what if the story is similar? I mean, how many variations of "I'm stuck in the XXX and need help... oops, someone's fucking me." can there be? But you see it happening... granted, more in the video than written. But as long as the effort is made to be different, and not directly forklifting a story and just changing the names, I think it is all good.

 

[Pureotica]

If you want to bust your originality bubble, spend an hour browsing tvtropes, or one of the other trope sites. Your brilliant idea has been done, many times. You make it your own in the execution.

1. Character wants to achieve a good outcome.
2. Character wants to prevent a bad outcome.

I've just given the synopses of 99% of book blurbs in the history of writing. The fun for me is in adding some conflict and raising the stakes. Most of my abandoned projects get abandoned when an idea that sounded cool didn't pass the so-what test.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

West Side Story is a retelling of Romeo and Juliet. I’m pretty sure Pretty woman is derived from Cinderella. Kurt Vonnegut says there are basically only 8 story types.

Everything we write finds its inspiration in something else. I’d suggest you not copy LotR with name changes and try to sue the Tolkien family, but take an idea and make it yours. You’ll be good.

 

[mirafrida]

Somewhat apropos of this topic, I was talking with someone about reading fanfics recently. They mentioned two stories of similar ratings and length and themes (and of course, being based on the same TV show, reliant on the same set of characters and situational premises). They described the first as "reading to get it done," almost a chore, while the second was a joy.

The difference they perceived? The writing. In the first, the narrator might describe a character as "beautiful and dangerous." In the second, the narrator might say that "He felt destined to be crushed by her. But he wouldn't mind being crushed, so long as it was by her."

This is not to suggest it's all about "good writing" and "bad writing." The variations of styles and nuance are endless, and each will appeal to some people and not others. Such variety is part of what I think is great about both humanity and human expression. So that's one way I might think about making a story unique - making sure to pour one's own personality and creativity into the writing.


(Edit: vis-a-vis the mentions of Tolkein, I'd say that I think an underappreciated reason that LotR has had such lasting power is that Tolkein crafted his writing so well, and put so much of himself into it. Of course, he innovated in many ways - world-building, themes, etc. At the same time, he'd be the first to admit that he was borrowing freely from epic and mythology. But at core, what I remember about these books is that they are beautifully written and deeply human.)

 

[Abbafan]

I think having a broadly similar premise is all right, but come up with your own characters, story, and angle. They key being broadly similar. Stephen King wrote about being inspired by the original Dracula when doing Salem's Lot. You can definitely see the influences, but it's a very different take on the vampire myth.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I think having a broadly similar premise is all right, but come up with your own characters, story, and angle. They key being broadly similar. Stephen King wrote about being inspired by the original Dracula when doing Salem's Lot. You can definitely see the influences, but it's a very different take on the vampire myth.

Anytime you are doing a genre you are forced into something broadly similar. If you do a vampire story without any of the core ideas about what makes a vampire then you are just misusing a name.

 

[mirafrida]

Just came across a nice little essay on the topic of 'idea plagarism' and it brought this thread to my mind

https://lithub.com/do-great-writers-really-steal-on-plagiarism-and-publishing/

 

[LonRivers]

Hello!

Today I have some questions regarding the debate Inspiration vs Plagiarism (or copying, stealing, etc. someone's work).
First off, I'd like to say that I am a rather new and unexperienced writer, I will only write one story at a time because it's the best I can do. But, while I am writing my story I will get ideas for new stories, new characters, plots and everything. And those ideas will "turn me on", which will lead me to search for stories on Literotica regarding the same topic(s). And unexpectedly, since I am not a genius writer with crazy new ideas, there will be at least one story which is similar to the one I thought of.
That's where my initial question comes into play, since as I am reading these stories I will notice most of my ideas are similar to the other authors, and I will also get new ideas from reading their stories. And although those new ideas won't be exactly the same as what is presented in their story, it will share similarities. And even when I go on my day-to-day life, suddenly a new idea will pop up in my head but I will question it, thinking "Is it really my idea, or just a slightly different idea from what I've already read?"

This is getting me all confused, and that is why I am turning to you for some guidance!
First, do you think that writing a story that is similar (but still a bit different) to story(ies) already existing is stealing/copying other people's work? Or since it is still the fruit of my imagination, it is my own story?
Even if it is my own story, do you think it is worth writing? Even though there are similar stories which are much better written.

I know a lot of authors (even famous authors) get their inspirations from reading other stories, but I believe they still make the story their own by adding new elements and intrigues. But what if I don't have anything new to add to my story? It stays the same slice of life story than the rest, with similar hardships, obstacles and rewards.

I'm really questioning the ethics behind this, and I don't want to be told something like 'This is just xxx's story, but worse.", nor do I want to steal or copy anybody's work! I want to create my own stories, with my own characters, but sometimes I feel like I got all my ideas from reading other people's work and I am not creating anything new.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you can help me!

First off, there are only so many ways to write erotica, despite the various subjects. It's not stealing as long as you take an idea and make it your own, and write it you're way. Ideas come from reading stories all the time among the authors. It's normal. You can also give that author some credit as a Thank You for being an inspiration if he or she sparks enough creativity.

 

[TheArsonist]

I’m pretty sure Pretty woman is derived from Cinderella.

I think it's more a version of The King and the Beggar-Maid via Pygmalion/My Fair Lady.

Kurt Vonnegut says there are basically only 8 story types.

It seems to me that you can have as many or as few story types as you like simply by how broad or specific you make them. The classification is more a matter of what is useful for a particular purpose than some inherent truth about storytelling.