Jealousy....bad or convenient?

[sunfox]

I read through the thread, and good bump.. interesting subject.

My personal stance on jealousy is that in moderation, it is common and not necessarily harmful if the jealous person knows they have the flaw and attempts to deal with it.

I have been in a relationship where he was obsessively controlling and jealous, accusing me of impossible levels of infidelity until I had had enough, and kicked him out.

Am I jealous? To some degree, yes. But in my relationship now, we are not jealous of one another. There is trust, and we do not wish to break that trust without reason.

I will, however, state that I am unequivocally against sharing my partner, and he is against sharing me. I bring myself to bed, and I know he brings himself to bed. I don't want him bringing something home from someone else to me. Protection is not always enough to guard against disease, and I want to live to a ripe old age so I can torment my daughter.

So our decisions to be only with one another is not a prospect of jealousy, but of a desire to be together still in fifty years or more, instead of losing each other to a disease in exchange for mediocre sex with someone who means nothing compared to our feelings for each other.

Call us quirky, but neither of us desire sex with anyone who comes along. We enjoy each other, and that is enough for us.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

...what about, or Good?

Okey dokey, gonna take a contrarian stance here (now isn't That a surprise ?). I agree with the one who spoke about two kinds or levels of jealousy, and while I can't help but agree that the extreme kind will almost always be a bad thing -- contrarian that I am I can even think of a case where the extreme kind could be seen as good and enjoyed by some (hey, aren't some of you folks supposed to be into masochism and mental torture, and what is more torturous than an extremely jealous lover or Master who is always punishing you for undone deeds? ) -- to me the milder kind of jealousy is good. Yes, I understand that like, say, shyness, we have a cultural antipathy against it. Those who aren't jealous are proud of this, as if it's something they are personally responsible for.

Here's my take: whether you are (the mild form of) jealous or not, is something you are born with, like red hair. I think it's similar to having an urge to procreate. Some have it, some just don't. Neither group is 'right.' As one who is that type, when my husband is jealous (very mild), I interpret it as caring and wanting me to stick around, not wanting to lose me. Also, I like the feeling of being owned, and it gives me that. The scary kind is no good, but this milder form is much to my liking. We are also monogamous. It's the only way that would work for us.

To me, part of the monogamy, and admittedly this is sort of a sidetrack, is wanting to go deeper with one partner, rather than broader with many. And for me, whomever I get involved with, especially sexually, there is an attachment that forms. It's not something I can do lightly. And I don't want pieces of my heart scattered all over the place.
Anyone I love, they have that love forever. I haven't truly loved many. The sex thing just complicates all this because of the attachment that forms, whether there is love or not. Without love, it feels like a loss, a sadness, an emptiness. Pouring water on an empty field of dry dirt.

Anyway, about jealousy -- I logically parsed out why and how to trust, so as not to have that bad form of jealousy, but i know that if I lost the mild form, it would be because I no longer care.
Something my dh once said to me -- that he would never be with anyone else because he's poured all of himself, all he has, all he is, into me and there's nothing left for anyone else. I love that, and told him so, and asked why he never told me. He said he was afraid I'd think he was stalking. 23 years of marriage and he's afraid I'll think he's stalking. Think we're a little afraid of jealousy in this culture?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Bump....

 

[TigerClaw]

Jealousy is a Signal

I am not talking about the person who gets jealous because their mate looks at another or talks to the store clerk.

I just can not comment on a sharing relationship. Sometimes I can understand it to a point, most of the time I can not.

Jealousy normally is a sign something is wrong. Open communication and caring is paramount to this being fixed. If it is not it is easy for one to claim jealousy rules the relationship. Why is the jealousy there? Is the jealous one too restrictive (which we often hear) or is one looking?

I am talking about jealousy with some kind of reason. What if it has a bit more to it .......
Lost hours, hang ups, private calls or ims late at night, etc, god forbid any hard evidence.

I now question if there is any hard evidence or strong belief of something being up can it ever be fixed? I am not as confident any more that it can be.

When in a relationship that does not have any financial or legal ties it is easy to leave. You can change your number, change your pw's and leave. If the issue is not being fixed or there is no desire to fix it just a vague statement you have to accept it or not, it is better just to leave. Not caring about your feelings is the kiss of death.

What if you can not leave? What if the other claims nothing is happening and they want the relationship? A lot of damage can be done to both. It is not a one sided issue. In this case I think the worst kind of damage happens.


At least for a non sharing relationship. Respect and communication has to be there. Before you get into an involved relationship that has ties that are not easily broken you have to know that person. Really know them.

I can imagine in a sharing relationship if everything is equal then jealousy would mean that the scales are tipped to where they should not be. That is a thought. Being I dont claim any knowledge in sharing you can throw that comment out if it is wrong.

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When a person shows care in your feelings and shows that trust was not betrayed, ...... that is a powerful statement of Love and respect. A person like that is worth their weight in Gold and should be held in High Regards. It is rare for such a thing to happen.

That is the only way I know how to fight Jealousy if it pops up. Identify it and address it by both parties. Come to an agreement on what each should do and hold to it. If the agreed upon items are not fulfilled you know they dont really care.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You make some good points TC. It is not an easy situation to deal with under any circumstances, there is the risk you are either going to let go of something you will never find again, or stay with something which will not only never be the same, but could make you be forever on guard for destruction of self. Why can't people come equipped with built in windows to the brain so the other may at least know if there is reason for concern, and if there is reason for hope? Guess that would be too easy.

Catalina

 

[TigerClaw]

You make some good points TC. It is not an easy situation to deal with under any circumstances, there is the risk you are either going to let go of something you will never find again, or stay with something which will not only never be the same, but could make you be forever on guard for destruction of self. Why can't people come equipped with built in windows to the brain so the other may at least know if there is reason for concern, and if there is reason for hope? Guess that would be too easy.

Catalina

There is a window to the brain..... of sorts.

Communication.

I can now say I am attached.

The shocking thing is once we decided to go deeper then friendship there was a lot of buried luggage that came up to the surface. Jealousy in this case is detrimental. Thankfully she can understand it and is Jealous herself. We had a good foundation as being friends which we are still developing. The friendship and communication is Crucial to fight jealousy and possessiveness where it is uncalled for. We honestly express the jealousy and can honestly understand it coming from the other. So, we are patient with each other and in turn are calming our short nerve endings. We are learning to trust on the deeper level.

Incidently, I knew I had a ways to go but I thought I had gotten past all of this. Once it got deeper things where there that I didnt know I still had to address. We are both learning and we are both teaching. The friendship and communication is the windows into each other and we can see what the cause is of our feelings and be there for each other.

I Hate This Suspicious Shit I now have. I Hate It and will not let the past rule my present.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thought there might be fresh outlooks from new faces on this topic.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

I don't get it. I've always thought that one who forbids a slave to so much as talk to another Dominant doesn't really own that slave.

I love to share, I want M to learn and grow, and have whatever interaction he needs with other people, same sex, opposite sex, non-sexual, WHATEVER he needs. If anything I want his horizons broadened.

Nothing feels more like ownership to me than my certainty that it's me he'll come back to, my bed, my whip, my house, ME.

I have complete confidence in this, more than most things I can think of. It's never occured to me that he might "find something better." Nor has any associated worry. I'd never put him in a situation I knew was bad for him and I let him use his own judgement as a marker and a means for him to keep himself safe.

Meanwhile I'm lucky enough to be able to roll around in bed with some girl and be treated with deference and respect and not voyeurism should he come home early. I don't take to other partners lightly or thoughtlessly, I cultivate an erotic friendship, but it's never the same as being with M and he knows it. Besides being an issue of "I can do what I want I'm the D" I've created a buffer zone of assurences a very clear message for M so that he need not have concerns about my leaving or doing anything stupid.

I love your view on this, is the same way D feels too.

Me on the other hand, I'm still learning, but I'm getting there.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I love your view on this, is the same way D feels too.

Me on the other hand, I'm still learning, but I'm getting there.

Netzach is indeed a wise woman who I find I learn from often.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

Netzach is indeed a wise woman who I find I learn from often.

Catalina

Ditto

 

[Private_Label]

I'm jealous

Put me in the stupid person catagory of jealous.

I don't like sharing the attention or body of my SO. My personal feelings are that if my SO needs to go to others for sexual/attentive fulfillment then I am doing not filling his needs. If I'm not fulfilling his needs then we need to talk about what we can do to see that I can fulfill his needs. Maybe I am just being insecure about it. This would be a "deal breaker" to me.

I'm not saying he can't flirt or talk to others or give/get friendly hugs and chaste kisses, but I want to be the one to take care of his need for affection and sex. I want to be the one who gives/gets the passionate kisses, the cuddling and closeness, the spanks, etc. I want to be the one that he cums in and on and over.

Maybe that is a bit childish on my part, but that's the way I feel.

 

[jasonlf]

Put me in the stupid person catagory of jealous.

I don't like sharing the attention or body of my SO. My personal feelings are that if my SO needs to go to others for sexual/attentive fulfillment then I am doing not filling his needs. If I'm not fulfilling his needs then we need to talk about what we can do to see that I can fulfill his needs. Maybe I am just being insecure about it. This would be a "deal breaker" to me.

I'm not saying he can't flirt or talk to others or give/get friendly hugs and chaste kisses, but I want to be the one to take care of his need for affection and sex. I want to be the one who gives/gets the passionate kisses, the cuddling and closeness, the spanks, etc. I want to be the one that he cums in and on and over.

Maybe that is a bit childish on my part, but that's the way I feel.

Yay! Glad someone came out to be the evil ogre, so I didn't have to.

I 100% agree. I'm greedy-as-hell with my SO, be it D/s relationship or not.

 

[mysteryinc]

Hi.
I don't really understand how someone can be jealous of a partner because I believe I could never feel jealous of someone to whom I'm attracted. However, that said, I have resented the way I have been treated by people, and I guess I have wished that I could get as much out of a relationship and they were taking. So I guess this is a form of jealousy.

Here is an extreme case. I have a platonic relationship with a work colleague who won't even let me meet his girlfriend because she is too prone to jealousy. I am quite insulted by the way he treats me in the whole predicament, since he doesn't seem to value my platonic friendship t all. But oh well.

I think a huge element is feeling secure in the relationship, and trust that your partner is committed to the relationship. The more dependent and attached you are to someone, combined with your relative sense of insecurity, the more intense jealousy you will feel towards a real or imagined threat. I'm sure there's a mathematical equation to define the force of jealousy.

As a different sort of jealousy, I've been enviously jealous of my sister. Intensely and obsessively jealous. Yes, I've grown out of it. Sorry for the cliche- I know this is common to sister relationships. The key issue I was dealing with was how UNFAIR I found it that she seemed to have 'everything', including my parents' attentions, where I had 'nothing'. Completely different from a sort of competitiveness because there was no active rivarly, just insecurity. Over time, I've come to realize that she was also jealous of me. I think it's harder to feel jealous of someone once you see their side of the picture and once you start to see them as a complete person, with their own set of problems, not just a threat.

 

[timberwolf05]

As I have read through many posts, old and new, I have often read D's pronouncing it a bad and/or negative issue when a sub becomes jealous if the dominant decides to take more submissives/slaves, and unacceptable and unwarranted. I also notice, many of the same D's admit they will not allow their submissives interaction of the same level with others because of their own jealousy, or diplomatically perhaps, their dislike of sharing.

As most D's hold their sub/slaves emotional and mental welfare as important as their physical, and part of their responsibility, how and why is this issue defined differently for D and submissive respectively? I recognise the issue of rights of dominants, but also know there is an acknowledged duty of care for most which is often challenged by this issue and many others. Perhaps more open discussion and respectfully expressed perceptions will help many deal with the difficulties they encounter living this reality.

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i personally feel jealousy and other such things are juvenile and should not ever be part of an adult world.
but i was raised strict and i am one anal s.o.b.--
the wolf