Labels and titles and terms, oh my!

[Katiesub]

I subscribe to the Popeye school of categorization.

I'm simply what many people think of (mistakenly) as a sweet potato.

I yam what I yam.

 

[Stella_Omega]

As a Canadian novice/beginner I agree with the pigeon hole theory, but sometimes us newbies need that to understand how to categorize things that we learn... I would define these words TO ME as such :

Top to me personally this is the same as a Dom/me, maybe a term used for people just starting, but not quite reached the full potential mindset of a dom/me?

bottomto me personally this is the same as a Sub,maybe a term used for people just starting, but not yet reached the true sub mindset?
...

The bolded? may I just say.. "alrighty then."

Oh, and bump. Thank you, Graceanne.

 

[midwestyankee]

I propose a new and simpler naming convention.

1) All individuals participating in a relationship shall be subject to the new naming convention, which convention is henceforth to be known as FUNK (Future Unconventional Naming Konvention).

2) Within a relationship, and only at or during the time of acting on a differential power and/or sexual dynamic, the doer shall be called the George. The doee shall be called the Martha.

3) Such titles are fluid and may rotate between partners at any time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I propose a new and simpler naming convention.

1) All individuals participating in a relationship shall be subject to the new naming convention, which convention is henceforth to be known as FUNK (Future Unconventional Naming Konvention).

2) Within a relationship, and only at or during the time of acting on a differential power and/or sexual dynamic, the doer shall be called the George. The doee shall be called the Martha.

3) Such titles are fluid and may rotate between partners at any time.

Or the Stella and the Stanley.

DAMN THESE SCHISMS

 

[midwestyankee]

Or the Stella and the Stanley.

DAMN THESE SCHISMS

FUNK v. 2.0: Everyone in a power-exchange relationship shall henceforth be known as the Stella. Let gender fluidity reign!

 

[Stella_Omega]

FUNK v. 2.0: Everyone in a power-exchange relationship shall henceforth be known as the Stella. Let gender fluidity reign!

Suddenly, my ego is hard as a rock and the size of the Washington Monument...

George, that is.

 

[CutieMouse]

Stella, I actually thought of you the other day. I had brunch with someone last week that kept defining everyone involved in the dynamic as Dom or sub...

Then going on to explain that the Dom guy was actually more of an Alpha Male [with a temper] who was "really doing it for his wife, but then again he hasn't been at it long enough to know how to take advantage of the situation. Hahahaha!"

*Cringe*

And the other one was "totally lifestyle sub", but since her husband didn't really fit the bill as Dom, she'd gotten permission to have a Master outside of the marriage. Poor dear was just desperate to be a real sub, but it's not like she can live naked in chains 24/7, ya know?

*TWITCH*

As for herself (the woman at brunch)? Well she was both Dom and sub, but heaven help the person who actually expects her to do as she's told. (insert evil chuckle) I mean really, who does that?

*Apoplectic*

Thank gawd I know this shit is way more gray than black and white.

 

[graceanne]

The bolded? may I just say.. "alrighty then."

Oh, and bump. Thank you, Graceanne.

Glad to help. I can see I'm going to be busy cataloging when I get my internet back.

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

Stella, Midwest, Cutie...
Didn't we just do this? "Different types of Dom's..." Very long discussion.

I'm STILL a newbie, but had great conversations with ya'll, and Funagi(?) was it.

Alice_Underneath asked for our opinions on the defintions. I will provide mine so that there are more than 4 people providing definitions (while the rest of you debate whether we are Labeling each other) .-)
Once I'm done writing them, I wil go read Serijules link, and my opinion may change a little more. Because I'm still putty in your hands.

A few Notes, just for Clarity? Lets not ASSUME everyone knows this...
BDSM is actully Bondage, Discipline, Dominance, Submissive, SadoMasochism. BD-DS-SM. BDSM. Now you know where DS and BD fit in.
A Scene, is a pre-determined period of time where a predeterimined set of actions will be played out. This could be 1 hour, 1 day, 1 year or 1 lifetime (or something in between).
All scenes are to be "Safe, Sane and Consentual".
Establish a Safe Word, which can be used to Stop the Scene. Once stopped, re-evaluate "Safe, Sane and Consentual" before continuing on, or exiting the scene completely.

Definitions:
I see 5 Catagories, this post only requested info on the first three
Role-Play Roles (Dom/sub or switch)
Positions (Top/bottom)
Lifestyles/Titles? (Master/slave)
Actions (Bondage, Discipline)
Personality Traits (Sadist/masochist, Dominant,submissive)



Roles of a Scene...
Dominant: Person in charge of the Scene. Responsible for controlling a Pre-Defined amount of the Submissive. The Dom tells the Sub what to do, how to do it, and does so for Dom's pleasure.
submissive: A person who gives up a pre-defined amount of control to a Dominant. The sub may give up control of thier movement, or their Sight, or Everything, for the duration of a Scene.
Switch: A person that can act as a Dom or a sub (but not both at once).
An example could be, a Dom in training. While being taught, the student is a sub, while practicing, the student is a Dom.
Someone trying to learn what they like the best, could be a Switch.
Others may find switching to be thier style.

These roles do not indicate WHAT is being done or for how long. They could be Cooking, Dancing, having Sex or Beating each other. Actions are not part of this definition.


Positions in the Scene
It is difficult to find a Scene were two people are Doing Something to the other, at the same time (69 maybe?). Usully one is... um, fucking and the othe being ah... fucked (blush). One is whipping, the other is being whipped. One is torturing, the other being torchured... You get the picture? Top/bottom describe what "Position" the person is in (Ha).
Top: The person Doing the "Action".
bottom: The person recieving the "Action".
This has nothing to do with whether the person holding the Whip is the Dom or the sub. For instance, the Dom may setup a scene, in advance, where the Sub is spanking the Dom. In this case, the sub is Topping, and the Dom is bottom-ing (Thanks Stella).


Lifestyles/Titles.
Dominant: See above.
Submissive: See above.
Master: Owns one or more slaves
slave: Is Owned by a Master
I will leave the Master/slave definition vague because to attempt to elaborate further, will invoke "debate" we had for 5 days.


Actions.
Bondage, Discipline.
I think that is self explanitory. Things you do to someone/each other...
I don't know ALL the ways to Bind or Disciipline a person, use your imagination.
This is NOT role specific and has nothing to do with whether you are a Dom, sub, Master, slave or if you are Topping or bottoming.


Character Traits (Just the ones in BDSM please)
Sadist: A person who enjoys Inflicting Pain.
Masochist: A person who enjoys Receiving Pain.
Dominant: A person who enjoys Controlling another person.
Submissive: A person who enjoys being controlled.

That's about it.

With that I will leave it to the readers to accept, or ignore my definitions.
Their Choice.

Chuckles-N-Lovin'

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not bad, chuckles, you get a cookie!

seriously.

As a side note, I've always wondered where the word "discipline" came from-- I assume it's from the English school practice of caning etc. We've kinda redefined the word over the years, to mean practices that actually modify behavior.

 

[HottieMama]

All scenes are to be "Safe, Sane and Consentual".

Not necessarily. I don't subscribe to SSC in any way. I prefer Risk Aware Consensual Kink. I am not delusional enough to think that some of the things that get me off are actually "sane," or for that matter "safe."

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not necessarily. I don't subscribe to SSC in any way. I prefer Risk Aware Consensual Kink. I am not delusional enough to think that some of the things that get me off are actually "sane," or for that matter "safe."

I agree but I'm just glad that chuckles got nine out of ten... that ain't too bad.

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

<<I agree but I'm just glad that chuckles got nine out of ten... that ain't too bad.>>

He Can Be Taught! .-)

 

[KoPilot]

Stella, Midwest, Cutie...
Didn't we just do this? "Different types of Dom's..." Very long discussion.

I'm STILL a newbie, but had great conversations with ya'll, and Funagi(?) was it.

Alice_Underneath asked for our opinions on the defintions. I will provide mine so that there are more than 4 people providing definitions (while the rest of you debate whether we are Labeling each other) .-)
Once I'm done writing them, I wil go read Serijules link, and my opinion may change a little more. Because I'm still putty in your hands.

A few Notes, just for Clarity? Lets not ASSUME everyone knows this...
BDSM is actully Bondage, Discipline, Dominance, Submissive, SadoMasochism. BD-DS-SM. BDSM. Now you know where DS and BD fit in.
A Scene, is a pre-determined period of time where a predeterimined set of actions will be played out. This could be 1 hour, 1 day, 1 year or 1 lifetime (or something in between).
All scenes are to be "Safe, Sane and Consentual".
Establish a Safe Word, which can be used to Stop the Scene. Once stopped, re-evaluate "Safe, Sane and Consentual" before continuing on, or exiting the scene completely.

Definitions:
I see 5 Catagories, this post only requested info on the first three
Role-Play Roles (Dom/sub or switch)
Positions (Top/bottom)
Lifestyles/Titles? (Master/slave)
Actions (Bondage, Discipline)
Personality Traits (Sadist/masochist, Dominant,submissive)



Roles of a Scene...
Dominant: Person in charge of the Scene. Responsible for controlling a Pre-Defined amount of the Submissive. The Dom tells the Sub what to do, how to do it, and does so for Dom's pleasure.
submissive: A person who gives up a pre-defined amount of control to a Dominant. The sub may give up control of thier movement, or their Sight, or Everything, for the duration of a Scene.
Switch: A person that can act as a Dom or a sub (but not both at once).
An example could be, a Dom in training. While being taught, the student is a sub, while practicing, the student is a Dom.
Someone trying to learn what they like the best, could be a Switch.
Others may find switching to be thier style.

These roles do not indicate WHAT is being done or for how long. They could be Cooking, Dancing, having Sex or Beating each other. Actions are not part of this definition.


Positions in the Scene
It is difficult to find a Scene were two people are Doing Something to the other, at the same time (69 maybe?). Usully one is... um, fucking and the othe being ah... fucked (blush). One is whipping, the other is being whipped. One is torturing, the other being torchured... You get the picture? Top/bottom describe what "Position" the person is in (Ha).
Top: The person Doing the "Action".
bottom: The person recieving the "Action".
This has nothing to do with whether the person holding the Whip is the Dom or the sub. For instance, the Dom may setup a scene, in advance, where the Sub is spanking the Dom. In this case, the sub is Topping, and the Dom is bottom-ing (Thanks Stella).


Lifestyles/Titles.
Dominant: See above.
Submissive: See above.
Master: Owns one or more slaves
slave: Is Owned by a Master
I will leave the Master/slave definition vague because to attempt to elaborate further, will invoke "debate" we had for 5 days.


Actions.
Bondage, Discipline.
I think that is self explanitory. Things you do to someone/each other...
I don't know ALL the ways to Bind or Disciipline a person, use your imagination.
This is NOT role specific and has nothing to do with whether you are a Dom, sub, Master, slave or if you are Topping or bottoming.


Character Traits (Just the ones in BDSM please)
Sadist: A person who enjoys Inflicting Pain.
Masochist: A person who enjoys Receiving Pain.
Dominant: A person who enjoys Controlling another person.
Submissive: A person who enjoys being controlled.

That's about it.

With that I will leave it to the readers to accept, or ignore my definitions.
Their Choice.

Chuckles-N-Lovin'

I think we should start requiring that posts like this use citations to prove their claims. If I had to do it when I wanted to be taken seriously in school, then I think everyone should. :B

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think we should start requiring that posts like this use citations to prove their claims. If I had to do it when I wanted to be taken seriously in school, then I think everyone should. :B

He can cite me.

In fact, he does.

 

[urh0227]

As a side note, I've always wondered where the word "discipline" came from-- I assume it's from the English school practice of caning etc. We've kinda redefined the word over the years, to mean practices that actually modify behavior.

hmm...interesting thought....this is what I found

discipline (n.)
early 13c., "penitential chastisement; punishment," from O.Fr. descepline (11c.) "discipline, physical punishment; teaching; suffering; martyrdom," and directly from L. disciplina "instruction given, teaching, learning, knowledge," also "object of instruction, knowledge, science, military discipline," from discipulus (see disciple). Sense of "treatment that corrects or punishes" is from notion of "order necessary for instruction." The Latin word is glossed in O.E. by þeodscipe. Meaning "branch of instruction or education" is first recorded late 14c. Meaning "military training" is from late 15c.; that of "orderly conduct as a result of training" is from c.1500.

 

[Stella_Omega]

hmm...interesting thought....this is what I found

discipline (n.)
early 13c., "penitential chastisement; punishment," from O.Fr. descepline (11c.) "discipline, physical punishment; teaching; suffering; martyrdom," and directly from L. disciplina "instruction given, teaching, learning, knowledge," also "object of instruction, knowledge, science, military discipline," from discipulus (see disciple). Sense of "treatment that corrects or punishes" is from notion of "order necessary for instruction." The Latin word is glossed in O.E. by þeodscipe. Meaning "branch of instruction or education" is first recorded late 14c. Meaning "military training" is from late 15c.; that of "orderly conduct as a result of training" is from c.1500.

See-- in a BDSM context, I might wrap someone up in rope ("bondage") and then I either fuck them silly, or beat them black and blue, or just hang them on the wall like art.

None of those things seem especially like "discipline" to me...

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

I think we should start requiring that posts like this use citations to prove their claims. If I had to do it when I wanted to be taken seriously in school, then I think everyone should. :B

KoPilot, and All...

I'm not sure siting all of the sources that formed my opinion, would be possible. I do understand your request and why it would be helpfull but I don't think it is needed here for two reasons.

1. My understanding of this thread, was to hear the opinions of the masses.
Probably for the benefit of other Newbies (like me) who would like to get the opinions of a large quantity of people, to help them develop their own opinions of where they might "fit in".
Or, we might want to simply find out what the heck a "Master" really is and whether they should be afraid of one, or have respect for one.
Who knows, Maybe Alice_Underneath started this tread to help populate the BDSM Terminology Thread.
But I could be wrong. I obviously didn't know what "Succinct" or "Elucidative" meant. Which is kinda ironic. Using a complicated word like "elucidative" instead of writing "clear and simple" .-)

2. Nobody can agree upon a definition anyway.
For instance, one of the most important lessons taught by all the sources I have found on BDSM, say every aspect of BDSM must be "Safe, Sane and Consentual" or it doen't work.
What happened when I wrote that? Two people discounted it. Including the person mostly responsivle for my opinions... Stella! .-(

In a Topic as fluid and "subject to interpretation" as BDSM, there may be a dictionary, but nobody is willing to quote it. Why?
Because for one reason or another the Community itself doesn't believe the definitions are correct.
How do I know? Because I quoted numerous sources in the previous thread and the opinions of the people on that thread were different than the sources I quoted.
Should I listen to the Sites, or listen to the people on the Forum? Both. I use as many sources as possible to develop my opinion on this subject. Then I, just like eveyone else, fill every post with "IMO" so you know I'm not Expert.

So, no. I won't list all 40+ sources of my opinions on these definitions.

KoPilot, I noticed you didn't provide your opinion on these definitions. Any particular reason?

For me, I'm willing to throw it out there and have a professional and open conversation regarding these topics (provided they don't threaten to RAPE me again). I hope everyone else will do the same (Post, not rape).

There doesn't have to be any debate over each person's opinion.
Just Post it, read it, and move on if you don't agree with it.

I personally, would truely like to see them and add them to my own understanding.

Sincerely, Respectfully, and with an Open Mind,

Chucles-N-Lovin'

 

[HottieMama]

For the sake of "easy" definitions...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk-aware_consensual_kink

 

[teknight]

He can cite me.

In fact, he does.

Oh? How's that labels 'n' definitions compendium coming along, huh?

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

HottieMama,
Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK)...
Based on my interpretation of that Wiki Article (that's for KoPilot .-), RACK was created because "Safe Sane and Consentual" (SSC) was being watered down by perceptions outside, and inside the BDSM community.
So basically the guy that created SSC, took SSC Edge-Play, gave it a new name so everyone could catagorize "those" activities as more Hard Core than the others. I can Accept that.

But if you go to Wiki and look up Edge-Play, is says it is also called RACK. To me, the two are interchangeable, but I DO understand why some people would rather be on the Extreme side, and go with RACK. It's a perception thing.

But If Asked, I will defind Risk Aware Consentual Kink as:
"A more direct term for BDSM Edge Play".
Then I will define BDSM Edge-Play as:
"(SSC) activities that involve the High risk of Death and permanent Injury"

Wiki defines Edge Play as...
"...Edgeplay may involve the risk of serious, even permanent harm or death, exemplified by activities such as breathplay (Erotic asphyxiation), knife play and gunplay, as well as the increased risk of spreading disease, as with cutting, bloodplay, or barebacking."

My Opinion:
BDSM Edge-Play has the potential of covering RACK activites.
With the right resources, an emergency room at your disposal for instance, everyting can be considered safe.
So, if you have a Sniper on hand...
...and a Gun Shot trauma Team waiting in your emergency room...
...you could for instance...
...with Sane Consentuality in writing and a massive down payment...
...act out a "Bonny and Clide, Dying Breath, Sex Scene".

Hmmm....

"The White stuff on top of Chicken Shit? It's chicken shit too"
-Pure Country

 

[HottieMama]

Wiki defines Edge Play as...
"...Edgeplay may involve the risk of serious, even permanent harm or death, exemplified by activities such as breathplay (Erotic asphyxiation), knife play and gunplay, as well as the increased risk of spreading disease, as with cutting, bloodplay, or barebacking."

Oh I despise the term edge play... What is edge play to you might not be to me and vice versa. Going by this lovely Wiki definition, things like bull whips and electrical play should be considered "edge play," because there is certainly the risk of permanent harm, and other things like incest role play isn't because it's on a mental level and not a physical one. *doesn't add up for me*

RACK for me is simple... I am Aware of the potential Risk incurred with activity XYZ (physical or mental). I Consent to do activity XYZ. Activity XYZ is Kinky.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

HottieMama,
Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK)...
Based on my interpretation of that Wiki Article (that's for KoPilot .-), RACK was created because "Safe Sane and Consentual" (SSC) was being watered down by perceptions outside, and inside the BDSM community.
So basically the guy that created SSC, took SSC Edge-Play, gave it a new name so everyone could catagorize "those" activities as more Hard Core than the others. I can Accept that.

But if you go to Wiki and look up Edge-Play, is says it is also called RACK. To me, the two are interchangeable, but I DO understand why some people would rather be on the Extreme side, and go with RACK. It's a perception thing.

But If Asked, I will defind Risk Aware Consentual Kink as:
"A more direct term for BDSM Edge Play".
Then I will define BDSM Edge-Play as:
"(SSC) activities that involve the High risk of Death and permanent Injury"

Wiki defines Edge Play as...
"...Edgeplay may involve the risk of serious, even permanent harm or death, exemplified by activities such as breathplay (Erotic asphyxiation), knife play and gunplay, as well as the increased risk of spreading disease, as with cutting, bloodplay, or barebacking."

My Opinion:
BDSM Edge-Play has the potential of covering RACK activites.
With the right resources, an emergency room at your disposal for instance, everyting can be considered safe.
So, if you have a Sniper on hand...
...and a Gun Shot trauma Team waiting in your emergency room...
...you could for instance...
...with Sane Consentuality in writing and a massive down payment...
...act out a "Bonny and Clide, Dying Breath, Sex Scene".

Hmmm....

"The White stuff on top of Chicken Shit? It's chicken shit too"
-Pure Country

I've never really gone looking for the different definitions of SSC and RACK, nor thought I was particularly hard core for preferring RACK (and activities some would consider edgy.. but then, also everyone has wildly different ideas about what they consider edgy, so I don't think RACK should be used as a substitution for edge play*), despite a lot of things I like probably not being particularly safe, or sane for that matter.

When you break the acronyms down, RACK just makes more sense to me. It's about being aware of potential risk, and doing what you can to minimise it, rather than trying to limit yourself by sticking with what's 'safe'.


* I love an entirely different tanget inside parentheses in the morning!

 

[graceanne]

Definitions

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

I must really be bored...
I'm throwig this out there for to get your opinions...

Stella,
"None of those things seem especially like "discipline" to me..." I Think that's because it's not Discipline. I think it falls under the Ginormous Catagory of Kink or Fetish. Just because you happen to be the Dom, doesn't make the actions BDSM. Only the nature of your "relationship" or association to the sub, is BDSM. The Actions, unless they are Bondage or Discipline (to teach), are not BDSM. i.e. If a Dom Brushes his sub's teeth, does Teech Brushing become a BDSM activity? Nope... This seems to be exactly what you are saying anyway...
It appears to me that you are actually practicing Risk-Aware Consentual KINK (as a BDSM Dom).

Hottie...
Dido. If Incest-play is your thing, cool. But you didn't mention anything about BD-D/s or S/m. You are playing a Psyco-sexual (is that a word?) game with moderate risk to psycological damage, but you haven't said anything about BDSM. I only called Stella a Dom from past conversations.

With that said, and unless I'm wrong, RACK is a different school of thought and a differenet forum....

I think...
Risk-Aware Consentual Kink is for Kink (Duh!).
Safe Sane and Consentual is for BDSM.
Kink is independant from BDSM.

Again, Just a couple of random thoughts that can only be discussed here, with people who might know, who won't call the cops on me...