Lost in translation: USA vs UK (vs Aus/NZ/India/etc) cultural misunderstandings

[THBGato]

Bollocks! I just remembered the question I wanted to ask in my opening post. I forgot to include it and it was half the reason why I started this thread!

I'm currently writing a story featuring a BBC Radio journalist. Americans, Aussie and the rest know what the BBC is, right? Or do I need to explain?

 

[NoTalentHack]

Most likely, yes. The BBC is how most Americans are exposed to British culture, either through BBC News, PBS rebroadcasting BBC programs, or one of th various streaming services/cable channels picking up the programs.

Uh. Wait. Which BBC are we talking about this time?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Bollocks! I just remembered the question I wanted to ask in my opening post. I forgot to include it and it was half the reason why I started this thread!

I'm currently writing a story featuring a BBC Radio journalist. Americans, Aussie and the rest know what the BBC is, right? Or do I need to explain?

I wouldn't think you'd need to explain. BBC America is a thing, shows like Dr Who and Top Gear have introduced the BBC into common usage in the US.

 

[THBGato]

Specifically, I'm talking about BBC local radio, but that doesn't really matter. If they are aware of the brand, they'll get it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Specifically, I'm talking about BBC local radio, but that doesn't really matter. If they are aware of the brand, they'll get it.

And how much do they need to know beyond "listening to the radio"?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Here’s an example: in the last two decades, I really got into British police procedurals and then cozy mysteries. Before that, I had no idea how the legal system over there was structured, but now I have at least a vague understanding of what a PC, PS, DS, DI, and DCI are, along with how they roughly stack up against American police ranks, as well as some differences in procedures and what would pass muster over there vs. what might get thrown out of court here and vice versa.

But the first time I watched? I had to go, “okay, the DI is the main character and in plainclothes, so I guess he’s roughly equivalent to Lenny from Law & Order; oh, he just said Detective Inspector, so that scans. And the guy with him is a DS, but also younger and subordinate, so Detective… Sergeant?”

ICYMI, there was a UK version of Law & Order, with at least some of the episodes directly adapted from the US show with changes as required for the differences between the two systems. Might be interesting to track down the matching episodes and compare them.

Checks are surprisingly still common for paying rent.

I think it's been at least ten years since I saw a cheque in .au. One of the major banks no longer offers cheque facilities for new accounts, and the rest are likely to follow in the next few years.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

ICYMI, there was a UK version of Law & Order, with at least some of the episodes directly adapted from the US show with changes as required for the differences between the two systems. Might be interesting to track down the matching episodes and compare them.

UK TV maverick and tortured cops leading a team are inspectors (usually Detective Inspectors), the hard-working ones with Issues in their team are sergeants (DSs), the newbies are mere constables. Equating Inspector Morse and Taggart with Columbo suggests that Lieutenant is roughly equivalent?

In reality, inspectors spend most of their time behind desks, not out chasing their instincts in distinctive cars, but I imagine the same is true for Columbo.

Comparing UK TV with US remakes is fascinating when looking at what execs felt the need to change. Making the young lad in Queer as Folk 17 rather than 15 makes sense, I suppose, when aiming for similar shock level a few years later, but changing the lead's name to Brian? I can only assume that Brian was not deemed a terminally uncool and unsexy name for 50 year old managers...

I think it's been at least ten years since I saw a cheque in .au. One of the major banks no longer offers cheque facilities for new accounts, and the rest are likely to follow in the next few years.

Yeah, the only reason I still have chequebooks about is because I got a couple last century. They haven't given them out by default for at least 20 years. My father-in-law gives us money by cheque, but otherwise I used one once for a school thing before my kid was set up on their system, about 8 years ago. It's free for anyone to go on their banking app and wang money to anyone else in the UK, so people just give out their account details.

Even in the 90s, apart from dodgy landlords I paid in cash, I paid rent by standing order, and bills by phoning the bank, though you could take the bill to the post office and pay there. Landlords usually insist you set up a standing order for rent. I think kids' schools moved to online payments only by 2015 - anyone without ability to pay online could go to the receptionist with cash.

 

[Duleigh]

Americans, Aussie and the rest know what the BBC is, right?

There is the OTHER BBC also...

 

[HordHolm]

I actually had several non-American readers complain about something in my most recent stories: mattress tags, and the “Under Penalty of Law” warning written on them. Every American reader knows exactly what I’m talking about, but not every non-American did, and a few let me know about it.

I think it’s less that the non-American readers are less prone to complain, but more that American pop culture is such a juggernaut that fewer things need to be explained. Every time I’ve visited another country, plenty of American shows are available on the TV there, and American movies play in the theaters. Right or wrong, audiences in Europe and elsewhere receive at least a basic education in the American legal system from our police procedurals, in its broad stereotypes of our states from our sitcoms, and, yes, our school systems from a wide variety of movies and TV shows. On the other hand, Americans have to actively seek out similar content from across the pond (or the world).

Here’s an example: in the last two decades, I really got into British police procedurals and then cozy mysteries. Before that, I had no idea how the legal system over there was structured, but now I have at least a vague understanding of what a PC, PS, DS, DI, and DCI are, along with how they roughly stack up against American police ranks, as well as some differences in procedures and what would pass muster over there vs. what might get thrown out of court here and vice versa.

But the first time I watched? I had to go, “okay, the DI is the main character and in plainclothes, so I guess he’s roughly equivalent to Lenny from Law & Order; oh, he just said Detective Inspector, so that scans. And the guy with him is a DS, but also younger and subordinate, so Detective… Sergeant?” And that was with the benefit of visual cues. My oldest started listening to audiobooks of some of the tamer cozy mysteries with me, and I had to explain the terms to her as we went, which I did through the use of equivalent terms from American culture.

So, yeah. It’s not solely a matter of laziness or the like; we just literally get less exposure to y’all’s culture than you do to ours. I agree with Cagivagurl, though: use the terms and let them figure it out. Or, if you want to split the difference, do what some writers in LW do: put a glossary/primer up at the top of the story (or at the end, with a note at the top about it) to give the Americans a heads up.

Funny thing, but a couple of years ago I found myself doing some research into UK police slang (that is, the jargon they use between themselves, rather than the street slang used about them) for something non-kink. And it became quite surprisingly clear that a large chunk of the police slang on UK tv shows is wrong. E.g. the police don't address a sergeant as 'sarge' - it's always 'sergeant'. And DCI is unknown - it is Detective Chief Inspector. TV scriptwriters simply invented a lot of the slang they use to give (false) verisimilitude. There are some pages out there on the interweb, put together by ex-coppers (and perhaps even some serving ones) and they are fascinating. My favourite, which I used very recently? 'Unit', used to refer to a large gentleman who might pose a certain physical challenge if the need arises to arrest him - 'big unit' is 'unit's' older brother, and BFU ('big fucking unit') is someone who requires a full squad to arrest.

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

Football vs Soccer ️. As an American who loves the global sport, I was compelled to call it football in my stories. But my writing probably reads American, so it didn’t feel consistent to call it football.

 

[HordHolm]

Football vs Soccer ️. As an American who loves the global sport, I was compelled to call it football in my stories. But my writing probably reads American, so it didn’t feel consistent to call it football.

And the stupidest thing about this confusion of terms? Soccer is originally a British English term. If you come across a Brit telling you it's not soccer, it's football, you can let them know that.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Football vs Soccer ️. As an American who loves the global sport, I was compelled to call it football in my stories. But my writing probably reads American, so it didn’t feel consistent to call it football.

At this point everyone knows the difference, so it's a non-issue as long as there is a shred of context.

 

[Levorotatory]

Football is a good name for the global sport where the majority of ball handling is done with the feet, but doesn't really make sense for the American sport where the only plays where the ball is kicked are last resorts, only used after preferred strategies have failed.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Football is a good name for the global sport where the majority of ball handling is done with the feet, but doesn't really make sense for the American sport where the only plays where the ball is kicked are last resorts, only used after preferred strategies have failed.

Because it was an evolution from rugby football.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Some use of local idioms can make the story feel interesting and allow a reader to feel like they are experiencing the character's culture. But too much use of local slang can make it sound like a foreign language.

"Um PIST an gonna fuck ya up, mothafucka!" might be a close representation of the sounds to describe an American inner-city gangster's threat in real life. But when used too much in a written story, it becomes tedious for the reader to translate it.

Imagine trying to read a story written entirely with emojis.

Dialog such as the following has never been an issue for my readers:

DeMarcus was on the rutted dirt road approaching the safe house where Folsom was hiding out when his cell phone rang. The caller ID showing a number he recognized, he answered with “Watch what you say and how you say it.”

Splint considered his words accordingly, and started his report, “Jules, Link, Dwight and Cody are all in the jail ward of the Davidson County Hospital. Link be in a coma, and not expected to survive. The others got some internal injuries an are scheduled for surgeries dis evenin.”

“Whatda hell happened to them?” demanded I-Bar.

“Couldn't get no details yet, but da lawyer will be trying to talk wif dem as soon as da poleec let em.”

“What bout da Morris'?” asked I-Bar.

“Lawyer sez dat day beein held as 'Material Witnesses' so he can't get in to see dem til the Feds say so. He be fightin dat, and spects to either get dem out soon or be allowed to see dem.”

“Karen Kirkland?”

“She ben released afta she giben a tikit for tresspassin. She at home if you want to talk wif her, but she doen seem to know noffin udder dan Sean Wallace and his lady showed up and had her arrested when she wouldn't do what he wanted.”

“Whad Q-Tip fine out bout Amanda Wallace?”

 

[Rob_Royale]

I never see stories that reflect the writers location or culture as speed bumps. I really don't. Stories that feature glimpses in to a writers world, their interests, hobbies, work and life, feel more more real, more authentic. Yes, these are all fantasy stories but but when we put our lives into them just a bit, it feels more realistic and thusly, more exciting.
One person's speed bump is another's spice, I guess.

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

Personally I just can't hack 'panties' instead of 'knickers'. I'll die before I put any of my characters in panties. Or indeed pantyhose.

I think writing stories in vernacular style simply adds to the diversity of stories here, which is a good thing. I usually enjoy reading them.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Funny thing, but a couple of years ago I found myself doing some research into UK police slang (that is, the jargon they use between themselves, rather than the street slang used about them) for something non-kink. And it became quite surprisingly clear that a large chunk of the police slang on UK tv shows is wrong. E.g. the police don't address a sergeant as 'sarge' - it's always 'sergeant'. And DCI is unknown - it is Detective Chief Inspector. TV scriptwriters simply invented a lot of the slang they use to give (false) verisimilitude. There are some pages out there on the interweb, put together by ex-coppers (and perhaps even some serving ones) and they are fascinating. My favourite, which I used very recently? 'Unit', used to refer to a large gentleman who might pose a certain physical challenge if the need arises to arrest him - 'big unit' is 'unit's' older brother, and BFU ('big fucking unit') is someone who requires a full squad to arrest.

"Unit" is not restricted to police usage, vis. this tweet from the Museum of English Rural Life and follow-up blog post:

 

[Lifestyle66]

Dialog such as the following has never been an issue for my readers:

DeMarcus was on the rutted dirt road approaching the safe house where Folsom was hiding out when his cell phone rang. The caller ID showing a number he recognized, he answered with “Watch what you say and how you say it.”

Splint considered his words accordingly, and started his report, “Jules, Link, Dwight and Cody are all in the jail ward of the Davidson County Hospital. Link be in a coma, and not expected to survive. The others got some internal injuries an are scheduled for surgeries dis evenin.”

“Whatda hell happened to them?” demanded I-Bar.

“Couldn't get no details yet, but da lawyer will be trying to talk wif dem as soon as da poleec let em.”

“What bout da Morris'?” asked I-Bar.

“Lawyer sez dat day beein held as 'Material Witnesses' so he can't get in to see dem til the Feds say so. He be fightin dat, and spects to either get dem out soon or be allowed to see dem.”

“Karen Kirkland?”

“She ben released afta she giben a tikit for tresspassin. She at home if you want to talk wif her, but she doen seem to know noffin udder dan Sean Wallace and his lady showed up and had her arrested when she wouldn't do what he wanted.”

“Whad Q-Tip fine out bout Amanda Wallace?”

It's a reader's personal preference and choice.

My daughter has asked me to beta-read some of her stories (not LitE), and I've told her the same thing: writing baby-talk for young kids is tedious to read, and I just stop.

I read for entertainment. So, the more the author makes me work to understand it, the less entertaining the story. I may or may not say so in a comment. But it's the difference between a 4 or 5 versus a 2 or 3 rating.

 

[Katie_Mae]

And vice-versa, 6th form.

True. Though I do find, on average, people from the US are more likely to use the school year instead of an age, and people elsewhere in the world are more likely to use the age as an age and the school year as the school year. This is why it trips me up more in American stories. I actually am never sure how old someone is based on a school year most of the time for any country. Reason being, the school year naming system changed part way through my schooling, also I moved countries partway through my schooling and there was an issue matching me to the 'correct' school year. I was almost 19 when I graduated school and the youngest in my year was 16. (Which here on lit is the difference between a story being posted and being rejected for child sexual activity.)

To be honest, it's more of an issue in international parenting groups when people ask what milestone their "kindergartner" should be at without stating the child's age (or country they are from to allow you to google that countries schooling system).

 

[Levorotatory]

I was almost 19 when I graduated school and the youngest in my year was 16. (Which here on lit is the difference between a story being posted and being rejected for child sexual activity.)

Enter the "Just say your final year of high school characters are 18" workaround. A few of them are IRL so it is plausible, even though most of them are younger in most places. One can always mentally substitute a more common age.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Bollocks! I just remembered the question I wanted to ask in my opening post. I forgot to include it and it was half the reason why I started this thread!

I'm currently writing a story featuring a BBC Radio journalist. Americans, Aussie and the rest know what the BBC is, right? Or do I need to explain?

Most American cable TV and streaming services offer not just BBC America, but also BritBox and Acorn, showing British TV. My grandmother basically watches British shows all day. She says the difference between the US and the UK is that in the UK they have more murders on TV than in real life.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Who cares, boo? Keep writing from YOUR perspective and background! I write stuff about the UK, 'cos I'm from there. I use language and cultural items that reflect that. If I was to start writing something based in another country I'd try to assimilate that into my writing. Simple, boo.

If someone comments on that cultural thing, and pulls me up on it, cool....I don't know about that culture! A good way to learn. But...if they're sayin' they have no idea of YOUR culture and identity 'cos of THEIR culture...then...they have to learn! We're on the internet! It's easy to look up shit, y'know? Some people need spoon feeding stuff. Some don't.

Cater for those that don't.

A xx

This. All of this. When I am reading and come across terms or concepts that are unfamiliar, I'm pleased to have found a chance to learn something new.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This. All of this. When I am reading and come across terms or concepts that are unfamiliar, I'm pleased to have found a chance to learn something new.

Same. Like so many other writing decisions we've discussed in this forum, it's one of those choices where we're never going to please everybody, so we might as well decide who our target audience is and write for them. I'd rather be writing for curious people than incurious ones.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Enter the "Just say your final year of high school characters are 18" workaround. A few of them are IRL so it is plausible, even though most of them are younger in most places. One can always mentally substitute a more common age.

In the US most of your high school seniors graduate at 18. They start the year at 17 and turn 18 during their Sr year.
You start kindergarten as a 5 year old, 13 years of school later you graduate as an 18 year old.