male led relationships

[Patchouli]

Ah. That's a slightly different thing, don't you think? It isn't that you want THE MAN to lead the relationship because he's THE MAN and that's the RIGHT WAY OF THE NATURAL WORLD, it's that you want your partner to lead because you think he and you would be happier that way.

You'd be more comfy in the roles the world has pre-instilled in you both, perhaps.

totally. i never meant to imply that i thought men SHOULD lead simply because they are men. in fact, that's the main thing about these relationships that turn me off.

i'm just interested to hear what such a diverse and open-minded group think about this subject. i'm examining it, i guess.

it's not so much that i think we'd be happier in a conventional relationship BECAUSE it's conventional. it's more that i think that we both tend to grab for the power in the relationship. the power usually ends up in my hands. And because i was raised by my mother and grandmother (who are both incredibly controlling and treated their husbands horribly), i really don't feel comfortable with that. i also know that it's much easier for me to yield than it is for him.

we've been sort of rudderless for a while, well, more like we've been fighting over the rudder so we're just floating in circles. it recently occurred to me that one of us is going to have to let go and trust the other person to lead. i think it needs to be me.

i'm really intrigued by the comments so far...

 

[CurvAppeal]

oh pleeeese I am begging: if you want people to read all of that, seperate some of it into paragraphs. You make my eyes bleed.

Thank you, dear. I couldn't agree more.

 

[BiBunny]

oh pleeeese I am begging: if you want people to read all of that, seperate some of it into paragraphs. You make my eyes bleed.

Maybe that's why I apparently missed WTF was going on there.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Maybe that's why I apparently missed WTF was going on there.

I can pick out bits. But it huuurrrts. And deads my brain.

Patchouli: I do think I get where you're coming from. It's quite the conundrum, huh? I understand that you witnessed two people abuse their power in ways that you fear you might do as well. But it might be that you're better equipped to lead than he is.

something to think about...

 

[Patchouli]

Patchouli: I do think I get where you're coming from. It's quite the conundrum, huh? I understand that you witnessed two people abuse their power in ways that you fear you might do as well. But it might be that you're better equipped to lead than he is.

something to think about...

believe me, i am

i've been thinking about it a lot. that's why i came here, i guess. i wanted to see what you all think of it. it's good to listen to other people debate an issue. it helps you to see it differently.

i'm really glad i posted this question.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Overlydriven: you removed your posts before I could absorb most of what you were trying to say.

Keep in mind, your dynamic may work for you, but you can't dictate what works for others outside your dynamic. It was, in fact, presumptuous to tell me I have it wrong because I have it exactly right for what I expect will work in my life. I sometimes hate how "me" centered my posts sound but that is because I can only answer questions based upon what works or does not work for me. I refuse to dictate to anyone what they should or should not be doing. Yet, my opinion may give someone food for thought so I post.

What value does my partner...or rather my future partner get from the dynamic that will work for me? He gets me in his life. If he doesn't have a similar interest in how a relationship works, he doesn't work for me and there is no relationship. I have a great many flaws, but I also have a great many positives about me and how I work when a relationship is healthy. So he gets the value of me.

If it offends him that I speak my mind about things, yet I am submissive in an aspect of my life, then he's not worth my submission. I can seek and hope to obtain what someone described to me as an equal/non-equivalent relationship. He has to be equal in moral standing. He has to be equal in strength of character...and that equal in strength of character means if he has a weakness, as all humans do, he has to be willing to have a partner that wants to shore up and buttress his weakness, turning it into a strength.

Leaders of either gender deserve to have the support of another. Leaders of either gender are not the be all end all, do it all on their own. If they think they are, they are kidding themselves and eventually will collapse. A true leader knows how to recognize, and address, weaknesses or to use others who are better or stronger suited for a task. If he is a strong man willing to share the effort of daily life by working together, he gets that support from me.

I am a woman who normally is the high wage earner in a relationship. It takes a secure, strong man to deal with that fact. Does that mean he's less of a man or a leader just because I earn more? No. It means he's more of a man if he can be happy and supportive about it. This same rational applies in other aspects of the daily grind so I won't continue giving practical examples of why working together is actually better for me.

Because I have a demanding profession that requires control a great deal of the time, I actually find balance and release being able to contemplate surrendering sexually. Again, my experience, as I state ad nauseum, is limited. But in the limited ways I have experienced submission, it is what will work for me in the future and it is what I am actively seeking in my dating life. I spent a lot of time (a lot) figuring out what I think will work best for my life. While I remain open to reconsidering my opinions, and, of course, defining my dynamic one on one with someone, I have core things that simply won't change about me and those things impact my opinion on male led relationships.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

A true leader knows how to recognize, and address, weaknesses or to use others who are better or stronger suited for a task.

Like.

I'm pretty sure you do the writing-on-leadership duties in your relationships.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I can seek and hope to obtain what someone described to me as an equal/non-equivalent relationship.

Dang, you can say in a few words what it usually takes me a paragraph to describe.

You've very much hit the nail on the head, for us.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Overlydriven: you removed your posts before I could absorb most of what you were trying to say.

what she said, dude. Nobody asked you to remove your posts.

I did ask you to edit them and turn them into paragraphs. Could have been something in them, if you'd made it easier to find.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Like.

I'm pretty sure you do the writing-on-leadership duties in your relationships.

How ever did you know? I do enjoy a good turn of phrase and writing precisely. Got a ruler I can borrow to make my writing even more precise? My handwritten prose could do with more exactitude.

Dang, you can say in a few words what it usually takes me a paragraph to describe.

You've very much hit the nail on the head, for us.

I can't take credit for the description. The particular phrase was given to me by an author friend and during the course of a lengthy (and continuing) email exchange. He expresses it as a plane of existence: in his daily life with his beloved, things are very equal, but he can tip that plane with a mere look or word and they slide onto another where things are non-equivalent. It's very fulfilling for them and is the closest description I've found to how I plan to live. Luckily, I seem to have accidentally stumbled into someone that has, so far, a lot of potential in that regard.

what she said, dude. Nobody asked you to remove your posts.

I did ask you to edit them and turn them into paragraphs. Could have been something in them, if you'd made it easier to find.

And I have to say "what she said", too. I fear there were points that I missed because it was making my eyes hurt to read through things. And the first post bothered me, so I needed to read all of them more than once to be open to absorbing much of anything.

 

[Overlydriven]

Respectfully, I will prefer to keep my opinions, for the most part, to myself on this subject and others. It is my opinion that sometimes I come off as a little less presenting of an opinion and a lot more confrontational. This is a result of my immediate response to a comment which provokes thought, and a bold and confrontational style of speech which has been successful in profession but has many real life repercussions as well.

Concerning the format of the posts, I do apologize for their readability issues. I was not asked to take them down, nor to take back my opinion, and I realize that. I just removed them because I felt like it would be easier than formatting them, and with the risk that the ideas would be viewed more as an offense or an insult than the expression of my own ideas it seemed a logical choice. I do not want anyone to think I mean any offense to the lifestyle choices of the individuals of this thread or any lit thread for that matter.

I am sorry that my choice of words were poorly chosen Chiara, I sincerely hope you can forgive them.

Concerning the role of males and leadership in relationship, I will simply say leadership it would seem is a must in any relationship, regardless of how mutually we like to think its operation. The leadership may not always fall to one person or the other, but it will always be there. In a relationship where there is one individual as the leader constantly, continually, or even for the majority it is not an insult or a lessening of the role of the other individual. It is the fulfillment of the role one has which is beautiful, and to me the ultimate standard of success.

 

[KoPilot]

we've been sort of rudderless for a while, well, more like we've been fighting over the rudder so we're just floating in circles. it recently occurred to me that one of us is going to have to let go and trust the other person to lead. i think it needs to be me.

I've always had this icky feeling about the idea of being in a totally "normal" relationship where both of us have power over whatever aspect. I was explaining my aversion to that to S about a year ago when I was still trying to get my bearings on what I was feeling and wanted (I still very much am tho, for the record :B), and I remember calling it "emotional mob rule"... a two-person anarchy, basically. I don't know how other couples do it!

Does it "need" to be you? Or do you both want it to be you? In my years living with roommates through college, I've always taken up the role of den mother out of necessity. If I didn't, things would descend into veritable chaos: bills wouldn't get paid, vermin would run us out, things would get broken or damaged out of carelessness, etc. But I heavily resented my place at the "head" of the apartment, because when it came to people that were supposed to be responsible and considerate, my roommates, the old adage of "If I don't do it, it won't get done" shouldn't have applied. So I (and everyone else, the fuckers) grew bitter.

Anyways, all I'm saying is do it if it promotes well-being in the both of you, but not because you feel that someone has to step up to the plate, right?

GL~

 

[Patchouli]

i think what i mean is...he's a very strong-willed (some might say stubborn ) guy. i am also a very strong-willed girl. but, out of the two of us, it's easier for me to...i don't know...yield? the idea of letting him be in control doesn't actually bother me, in theory. my "grabs for power" were fairly unconscious, a product of childhood, i think.

when i say i think it needs to be me...I mean this...

i don't think he CAN be the one led. i don't think it's in his nature. for me, it is. i've been coming to the realization for a while that someone is going to have to relent. we can't keep going around in circles and we can't keep fighting about what to do. i love him. i want to stay with him. i think he loves me and wants to stay with me. so...something needs to change.

 

[Etoile]

Can somebody define "male led relationship" for me?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'd like someone to define "led relationship."

 

[Felix_Jones]

I think Louis CK said it best;

You should never rape a woman.

Unless you have a really good reason.

Like wanting to fuck her when she won't let you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Are you sure you meant to put that joke in this thread?

 

[Patchouli]

Can somebody define "male led relationship" for me?

a male led relationship would be one where the man steers the ship, so to speak. the man and the woman may discuss important decisions, but it's up to him, ultimately, to make the final decisions.

the reverse would be true for female led relationships.

 

[Felix_Jones]

a male led relationship would be one where the man steers the ship, so to speak. the man and the woman may discuss important decisions, but it's up to him, ultimately, to make the final decisions.

the reverse would be true for female led relationships.

Are you a Promise Keeper?

 

[Stella_Omega]

a male led relationship would be one where the man steers the ship, so to speak. the man and the woman may discuss important decisions, but it's up to him, ultimately, to make the final decisions.

the reverse would be true for female led relationships.

like which car to buy and where to live, and who should take which job offer and whether or not there should be children, and do we see your parents this holiday season or mine, and should we eat healthier?

It seems to me some of those things are not like the others, and a good decision may require a different set of skills. I would not expect one partner to be able to make good decisions in every case.

best case is where the partnership draws on the strengths of each person. This is not inconsistent with a D/s relationship, in my opinion.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

like which car to buy and where to live, and who should take which job offer and whether or not there should be children, and do we see your parents this holiday season or mine, and should we eat healthier?

It seems to me some of those things are not like the others, and a good decision may require a different set of skills. I would not expect one partner to be able to make good decisions in every case.

best case is where the partnership draws on the strengths of each person. This is not inconsistent with a D/s relationship, in my opinion.

Next thing, you'll be advocating suffrage for pyl's.

 

[Felix_Jones]

I have to admit, I'm really enjoying all the privilege.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Next thing, you'll be advocating suffrage for pyl's.

heaven forfend!



Jonesy-- I get the impression that you don't know that Patchouli is a woman?

 

[Patchouli]

heaven forfend!



Jonesy-- I get the impression that you don't know that Patchouli is a woman?

i'm pretty sure i am...let me check...

yup. i's a girl, all right.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

heaven forfend!

I had to look that word up, Stella. I'm adding it to my list of archaic words that MUST be brought back! Join the cause!