male led relationships

[Stella_Omega]

I had to look that word up, Stella. I'm adding it to my list of archaic words that MUST be brought back! Join the cause!

I picked it up from the film "Topsy Turvy, in a wonderful scene between Sir Arthur Sullivan and his mistress Fanny Ronalds...

Also might be where I learned to use "notion" in the way I so often do. So elegant and efficient...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Heh.

My partner just sprang a couple of surprises on me. (Read: he wanted something so he bought something.
Without telling me.
Which just came to the door via UPS.
Big ticket.
Using money that we could have put to really good use in other areas.
Which he did not tell me he had.
Because He FUCKING WELL KNEW I WOULD REMIND HIM OF THOSE OTHER THINGS and ask him to use it on those instead.)

I'm so pissed off that I'm ready to take a hike.

Right now I WIIIISSSSHHHHH we were in a D/s relationship, so that I could take the stupid mother fucker DOOOWNNN. Or yanno, if I were the sub at least I could accept the blame for handing my precious submissive power over to a FUCKing MORon.

This is why D/s is so popular and romantic in people's minds, IMO. It makes relationship dynamics simple-- in theory at least.

 

[KoPilot]

Heh.

My partner just sprang a couple of surprises on me. (Read: he wanted something so he bought something.
Without telling me.
Which just came to the door via UPS.
Big ticket.
Using money that we could have put to really good use in other areas.
Which he did not tell me he had.
Because He FUCKING WELL KNEW I WOULD REMIND HIM OF THOSE OTHER THINGS and ask him to use it on those instead.)

I'm so pissed off that I'm ready to take a hike.

Right now I WIIIISSSSHHHHH we were in a D/s relationship, so that I could take the stupid mother fucker DOOOWNNN. Or yanno, if I were the sub at least I could accept the blame for handing my precious submissive power over to a FUCKing MORon.

This is why D/s is so popular and romantic in people's minds, IMO. It makes relationship dynamics simple-- in theory at least.

^Emotional mob rule.

-...keeps downwind-

(PS- That story was super cute~)

 

[Patchouli]

Heh.

My partner just sprang a couple of surprises on me. (Read: he wanted something so he bought something.
Without telling me.
Which just came to the door via UPS.
Big ticket.
Using money that we could have put to really good use in other areas.
Which he did not tell me he had.
Because He FUCKING WELL KNEW I WOULD REMIND HIM OF THOSE OTHER THINGS and ask him to use it on those instead.)

I'm so pissed off that I'm ready to take a hike.

Right now I WIIIISSSSHHHHH we were in a D/s relationship, so that I could take the stupid mother fucker DOOOWNNN. Or yanno, if I were the sub at least I could accept the blame for handing my precious submissive power over to a FUCKing MORon.

This is why D/s is so popular and romantic in people's minds, IMO. It makes relationship dynamics simple-- in theory at least.

wow. yeah, that would be frustrating.

 

[HottieMama]

Stella... I would be LIVID too...so I understand. And I am the "little letter" with HusDom but I still would not hesitate to put him in his goddamn place...

 

[Stella_Omega]

^Emotional mob rule.

-...keeps downwind-

Who'd have thought, huh?

is it downwind, really? I thought "down" is the where the wind blows to. Whichever way stay there. You do not want to be smelling it.

(PS- That story was super cute~)

Yes it was! I thought the sex bits were adorable too and actually pretty hot. I don't know if they resonate with macro fetishist or not...

 

[CurvAppeal]

You might be led, but you wouldn't be male led.

True to a certain extent my love.

 

[CurvAppeal]

Heh.

My partner just sprang a couple of surprises on me. (Read: he wanted something so he bought something.
Without telling me.
Which just came to the door via UPS.
Big ticket.
Using money that we could have put to really good use in other areas.
Which he did not tell me he had.
Because He FUCKING WELL KNEW I WOULD REMIND HIM OF THOSE OTHER THINGS and ask him to use it on those instead.)

I'm so pissed off that I'm ready to take a hike.

Right now I WIIIISSSSHHHHH we were in a D/s relationship, so that I could take the stupid mother fucker DOOOWNNN. Or yanno, if I were the sub at least I could accept the blame for handing my precious submissive power over to a FUCKing MORon.

This is why D/s is so popular and romantic in people's minds, IMO. It makes relationship dynamics simple-- in theory at least.

Sorry to hear that hun. Been through the same thing, it is very frustrating.

 

[intothewoods]

Heh.

My partner just sprang a couple of surprises on me. (Read: he wanted something so he bought something.
Without telling me.
Which just came to the door via UPS.
Big ticket.
Using money that we could have put to really good use in other areas.
Which he did not tell me he had.
Because He FUCKING WELL KNEW I WOULD REMIND HIM OF THOSE OTHER THINGS and ask him to use it on those instead.)

I'm so pissed off that I'm ready to take a hike.

Right now I WIIIISSSSHHHHH we were in a D/s relationship, so that I could take the stupid mother fucker DOOOWNNN. Or yanno, if I were the sub at least I could accept the blame for handing my precious submissive power over to a FUCKing MORon.

This is why D/s is so popular and romantic in people's minds, IMO. It makes relationship dynamics simple-- in theory at least.

Yes, in theory.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes, in theory.

And we all know how well theory works in real life, right...

 

[Heidi123]

When I was starting to sort things out for myself, I read about taken in hand and domestic discipline. Too much of it struck me as justification for spousal abuse of a sort. I mean, being disciplined (and not in a fun way) for putting the credit card away on the wrong side of the drawer? Seriously?

If it's something both partners enjoy, then good. But a few of the different blogs I read came across almost as if the female partner had to be convinced it was the right choice for "them" as a couple. Convincing someone comes too close to manipulation for my choice.

In my very limited experience, one does not have to be in a male led relationship to be sexually submissive. Recently I've been pondering a quote from Anais Nin that's in someone's signature and which someone just posted elsewhere:

“I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man lying over me, always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot. I don’t mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, God, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don’t mind being told to stand on my own feet, not to cling, be all that I am capable of doing, but I am going to be pursued, fucked, possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding.” ~A. Nin

This is where I would like my search to end up: with a man that understands I'm strong, courageous, can stand on my own two feet, but sexually I simply want to give myself over to someone who deserves it. For me, that's not just any man; he has to have some moral foundations that match my own and understand that dominating me sexually does not mean the rest of our relationship is disparate. In fact, the sexual side is balanced in a yin and yang fashion; and the rest of the relationship (the daily grind stuff) should be balanced by approaching it as equals, sharing in the task.

But to each his or her own. There are people who want to be completely submissive in all aspects of their lives. As long as it's a choice made with full knowledge and not forced upon them, I think "more power to you" and hope they find something fulfilling.

Reading this helped me, even more so, confirm that I made the right choice. Have always loved that particular Anais Nin quote. I, too, want to end my search just as you described. This is where fulfillment would be for me! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Honed_Hunger]

a male led relationship would be one where the man steers the ship, so to speak. the man and the woman may discuss important decisions, but it's up to him, ultimately, to make the final decisions.

the reverse would be true for female led relationships.

Is this not a working definition for a 24/7, TPE Master & slave dynamic in the strictest of senses?

In any event.......such a role is a fuckton of work for anyone who takes on such a huge leadership/decision-making role, as it also reeks of a sense of servitude that can be quite a chore. Plus, lest we not forget that there's a huge liability factor built into the aforementioned dynamic, which will rear it's head in times when things don't pan out exactly as previously planned.

I'd never seek out, or agree to being in such a role myself.


Just my .02. YMMV & all that.......

 

[HottieMama]

I am having a hard time comprehending the majority of this thread at the moment. It's extremely hetero-normative in my mind, and any time I have attempted the "male-led relationship," it has been a miserable male-led FAILURE...for me...

Call me jaded and disillusioned with the majority of it...

 

[Patchouli]

i asked mainly because of the stuff i've been reading on the "taken in hand" site. it's both repulsive and intriguing to me. but, it has definitely made me think. it's led me to think about the dynamics in my relationship with my husband. it's led me to think about how i could be different. it's also led to a lot of conversations about how he feels and what we could do to re-invigorate our marriage.

it was such a surprising concept to me, when i came across it, that i was very interested in hearing what the people here thought. i love how open-minded the people here are. and, generally speaking, most people here are much more knowledgeable about relationships based on D/s than i am. i thought it might be in interesting topic.

the idea is that with a male "leading", the relationship becomes super-charged and much more intimate. some of the sites that i've been reading suggest that it's because a majority of women are attracted to alpha males, but need betas to create a home and family. over time, the women who are attracted to alphas lose their attraction to their obviously beta mates. having the men take over brings out their alpha characteristics and makes the relationship much more sexual.

the way i understand it, it's kinda like bdsm meets leave it to beaver.

i try very hard to be open-minded about this stuff, and take from it what i can. i especially like to pay attention to things that make me feel strongly, one way or the other. i like to push my own boundaries a bit.

when i was reading about "taken in hand" relationships, i had both intense interest and intense revulsion. that always makes me stand up and take notice. there was obviously something here that i needed to explore, but i'm not sure how i feel about it in its entirety. i figured that i'd start this topic and see what you all had to say.

 

[Etoile]

the way i understand it, it's kinda like bdsm meets leave it to beaver.

Pretty good summary of TIH, yah. What I've never understood about TIH, though, is their need to feel morally superior. Like they'd never be caught dead using nipple clamps because...*shudder*...that's base.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Is this not a working definition for a 24/7, TPE Master & slave dynamic in the strictest of senses?

In any event.......such a role is a fuckton of work for anyone who takes on such a huge leadership/decision-making role, as it also reeks of a sense of servitude that can be quite a chore. Plus, lest we not forget that there's a huge liability factor built into the aforementioned dynamic, which will rear it's head in times when things don't pan out exactly as previously planned.

I'd never seek out, or agree to being in such a role myself.


Just my .02. YMMV & all that.......

bravo, bravo, well said!

AS you might recall, I hit the roof a couple days ago when my partner did something sneaky. I have been ignoring things a bit, I admit it-- withdrawn into myself and probably ignoring him a bit. I feel that he has not been very respectful towards me and I know for a fact that I return that sentiment at this time.

So, we've been talking about that. It's been very good. it isn't fun. but it's fulfilling.

Our respective roles are pretty complicated and intertwined. the boundaries, you might say, are gerrymandered. But once we get those roles established again, the sense of relief and security takes hold-- no matter that they are complex.

I think that if we had established something simpler, with most of the power residing on his side or on mine-- we would also have felt better. It isn't respecting the MAYUNN that makes TIH families happier. It's simply knowing what to expect. These couples would feel magically happy no matter what way their power struggle ended.

 

[Honed_Hunger]

bravo, bravo, well said!

AS you might recall, I hit the roof a couple days ago when my partner did something sneaky. I have been ignoring things a bit, I admit it-- withdrawn into myself and probably ignoring him a bit. I feel that he has not been very respectful towards me and I know for a fact that I return that sentiment at this time.

So, we've been talking about that. It's been very good. it isn't fun. but it's fulfilling.

Our respective roles are pretty complicated and intertwined. the boundaries, you might say, are gerrymandered. But once we get those roles established again, the sense of relief and security takes hold-- no matter that they are complex.

I think that if we had established something simpler, with most of the power residing on his side or on mine-- we would also have felt better. It isn't respecting the MAYUNN that makes TIH families happier. It's simply knowing what to expect. These couples would feel magically happy no matter what way their power struggle ended.

I read about that of course, and anyone in that situation would be justified to be pissed to a high state of pisstivity as you were. Trust was broken and a lie by ommission was committed. It takes personal accountability and true remorse shown after the fact to heal such wounds. One can only hope there's a lesson learned and protocols put into place that will eliminate future occurances such as the one you mentioned?

TIH is male biased bovine excrement IMO. One's plumbing hasn't a damn thing to do with qualifying them for the superior leadership role within an interpersonal relationship of any type. Point blank givens based on gender alone, can potentially lead to a flawed dynamic. Albeit one that could be improved upon, but only if the parties involved were willing to compromise and divide up the decision making based on respective personal capabilities in regards to different areas of attention required to make a household and/or relationship function smoothly.

Control,or lack thereof, can be a harmful, addictive drug. Power surrendered by the little letter, or accepted by the big letter..........can very well serve as both the antedote and the toxin,all rolled into one dose. I've found that most relationship problems happen when both parties are clothed and not while they're in the bedroom.

Healthy, well-functioning relationships of any type are based on communication, trust,compromise and overall life balance exhibited by those who know what role fits them best. Without those things in place.......the journey will prove to be a rocky one, no matter who thinks they're in the so-called leadership position.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

bravo, bravo, well said!

AS you might recall, I hit the roof a couple days ago when my partner did something sneaky. I have been ignoring things a bit, I admit it-- withdrawn into myself and probably ignoring him a bit. I feel that he has not been very respectful towards me and I know for a fact that I return that sentiment at this time.

So, we've been talking about that. It's been very good. it isn't fun. but it's fulfilling.

Our respective roles are pretty complicated and intertwined. the boundaries, you might say, are gerrymandered. But once we get those roles established again, the sense of relief and security takes hold-- no matter that they are complex.

I think that if we had established something simpler, with most of the power residing on his side or on mine-- we would also have felt better. It isn't respecting the MAYUNN that makes TIH families happier. It's simply knowing what to expect. These couples would feel magically happy no matter what way their power struggle ended.

That bold bit, that's what I like.

Well, it's one of a number of things I like, but it speaks to me. It's not exclusive to my relationship, it's how I am in general. I like knowing what to expect, what results various behaviours garner. I like consistency in behaviours. It helps me make sense of my world.

 

[Lilac_Sky]

That bold bit, that's what I like.

Well, it's one of a number of things I like, but it speaks to me. It's not exclusive to my relationship, it's how I am in general. I like knowing what to expect, what results various behaviours garner. I like consistency in behaviours. It helps me make sense of my world.

Lizzie,
I agree completely. In my last relationship, there was a lot of turmoil because I didn't know who was the "responsible" party for anything ... It wasn't a D/s relatioship (though it was controlling in an unhealthy way). I have realized (with Mistress's help) that I am happiest when I know who is "in charge" and taking responsiblity for something. So, at work - I am the responsible party .... and I accept that role with strength and determination. At home, Mistress is the responsible party. Now, that doesn't mean that she is "in charge" of everything and I sit back and do nothing. But it also doesn't mean that I am in charge of all chores/tasks while she sits back and does nothing. But, as you said Lizzie, I know what to expect, there is a consistency so I know what areas are my responsibility. There is nothing I hate more than a moving target. Let me know what you expect me to do, and I will work very hard to accomplish it.

 

[Netzach]

bravo, bravo, well said!

AS you might recall, I hit the roof a couple days ago when my partner did something sneaky. I have been ignoring things a bit, I admit it-- withdrawn into myself and probably ignoring him a bit. I feel that he has not been very respectful towards me and I know for a fact that I return that sentiment at this time.

So, we've been talking about that. It's been very good. it isn't fun. but it's fulfilling.

Our respective roles are pretty complicated and intertwined. the boundaries, you might say, are gerrymandered. But once we get those roles established again, the sense of relief and security takes hold-- no matter that they are complex.

I think that if we had established something simpler, with most of the power residing on his side or on mine-- we would also have felt better. It isn't respecting the MAYUNN that makes TIH families happier. It's simply knowing what to expect. These couples would feel magically happy no matter what way their power struggle ended.

Do you think people actually are as smoothed out ironed out and happy as they claim to be nine times in ten?

To me, M/s or D/s just drives some of that "I'm gonna wring his neck" further underground. More "suicide" and less "murder" impulse when stuff is off the rails, maybe, but problems anyway. I don't think anyone has "easy" relationships, really. On paper you might have this strong idea of what to do during problem periods, but sometimes blindly sticking to the obvious allows stuff to go way unaddressed.

M/s relationships tend to go more 'splodey at endpoint, in my observation, I think maybe because if you can't operate as peers during troubleshooting you're suppressing a LOT of shit.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Do you think people actually are as smoothed out ironed out and happy as they claim to be nine times in ten?

To me, M/s or D/s just drives some of that "I'm gonna wring his neck" further underground. More "suicide" and less "murder" impulse when stuff is off the rails, maybe, but problems anyway. I don't think anyone has "easy" relationships, really. On paper you might have this strong idea of what to do during problem periods, but sometimes blindly sticking to the obvious allows stuff to go way unaddressed.

M/s relationships tend to go more 'splodey at endpoint, in my observation, I think maybe because if you can't operate as peers during troubleshooting you're suppressing a LOT of shit.

Ghawds yeah.

I worry about people who totally put their faith in the notion. Here on this forum we have a lot of subs who have gotten past it, and you know what? I would love for some good writing on the subject... Anyone have links, or want to write?

 

[Chiara_searches]

I am having a hard time comprehending the majority of this thread at the moment. It's extremely hetero-normative in my mind, and any time I have attempted the "male-led relationship," it has been a miserable male-led FAILURE...for me...

Call me jaded and disillusioned with the majority of it...

This is an extremely valid point. Much of this thread, including my own comments, have been hetero-normative centered. I strive to be more aware and inclusive even though I am hetero-sexual. For that reason, I feel the need to at least acknowledge my failure to be more inclusive and I apologize for being less aware in my comments. I hope you have things you can share about leadership/follower relationships regardless of the gender because I think that may lend itself to the topic at hand and, as Horned Hunger has pointed out:

One's plumbing hasn't a damn thing to do with qualifying them for the superior leadership role within an interpersonal relationship of any type. Point blank givens based on gender alone, can potentially lead to a flawed dynamic. Albeit one that could be improved upon, but only if the parties involved were willing to compromise and divide up the decision making based on respective personal capabilities in regards to different areas of attention required to make a household and/or relationship function smoothly.

Healthy, well-functioning relationships of any type are based on communication, trust,compromise and overall life balance exhibited by those who know what role fits them best. Without those things in place.......the journey will prove to be a rocky one, no matter who thinks they're in the so-called leadership position.

and I second the comments about communication, trust, compromise and life balance.

 

[jdsgirl]

I only have the schema for hetero here, but I've learned a lot recently due to a failing marriage and a thriving newer relationship. I've never been in a D/s relationship, but I've just come to realize that I'm a "healthy submissive." I don't want to hold the reigns in a partnership. I want to give my sweet submission with pleasure, and I want him to take it as the beautiful gift that it is and cherish it and adore me for it. That's just who I am. Don't yell at me here, please, I'm getting to a point . . . in general, I think women are more inclined to be submissive - we are called the softer sex. Biolocially we are designed to nurture, while men are designed to protect. Now, I am all for feminism as much as the next girl, but I think perhaps there's been too big a push to squash the soft, nurturing side of women in favor of something - fishing for the right word here - hard? more male? It's as if somewhere along the feminist path, it became NOT okay to be a gentle, nurturing woman. To me, that is decidedly anti-feminist. Women ARE feminine, and what's wrong with our strengths being gentle? That said, I don't ever think a non-submissive woman should be asked to be submissive. If it's not in her, it's not in her, and shouldn't be forced. I AM naturally submissive, and I LIKE who I am. But women like me MUST find the right partner, and I only recently did. I'm trying to escape my marriage to a controlling, abusive narcissist. No, that is NOT the right partner for a submissive. The right partner is one who is enough control of himself that he can easily lead the partnership. He is strong and confident and pushes his partner's boundaries in a positive way because he knows what she wants and cares deeply for her. And he would never take advantage of her submissive nature and abuse her because of it.
That's my 2 cents. Hope you followed it!

 

[sillygooz]

I only have the schema for hetero here, but I've learned a lot recently due to a failing marriage and a thriving newer relationship. I've never been in a D/s relationship, but I've just come to realize that I'm a "healthy submissive." I don't want to hold the reigns in a partnership. I want to give my sweet submission with pleasure, and I want him to take it as the beautiful gift that it is and cherish it and adore me for it. That's just who I am. Don't yell at me here, please, I'm getting to a point . . . in general, I think women are more inclined to be submissive - we are called the softer sex. Biolocially we are designed to nurture, while men are designed to protect. Now, I am all for feminism as much as the next girl, but I think perhaps there's been too big a push to squash the soft, nurturing side of women in favor of something - fishing for the right word here - hard? more male? It's as if somewhere along the feminist path, it became NOT okay to be a gentle, nurturing woman. To me, that is decidedly anti-feminist. Women ARE feminine, and what's wrong with our strengths being gentle? That said, I don't ever think a non-submissive woman should be asked to be submissive. If it's not in here, it's not in her, and shouldn't be forced. I AM naturally submissive, and I LIKE who I am. But women like me MUST find the right partner, and I only recently did. I'm trying to escape my marriage to a controlling, abusive narcissist. No, that is NOT the right partner for a submissive. The right partner is one who is enough control of himself that he can easily lead the partnership. He is strong and confident and pushes his partner's boundaries in a positive way because he knows what she wants and cares deeply for her. And he would never take advantage of her submissive nature and abuse her because of it.
That's my 2 cents. Hope you followed it!

Thanks for sharing...........and for the PM........

 

[Patchouli]

This is an extremely valid point. Much of this thread, including my own comments, have been hetero-normative centered. I strive to be more aware and inclusive even though I am hetero-sexual. For that reason, I feel the need to at least acknowledge my failure to be more inclusive and I apologize for being less aware in my comments. I hope you have things you can share about leadership/follower relationships regardless of the gender because I think that may lend itself to the topic at hand and, as Horned Hunger has pointed out:



and I second the comments about communication, trust, compromise and life balance.

yes, this thread is definitely oriented in a hetero direction. based on the subject matter, i don't think there's a choice. "male led relationships" are entirely about the male/female dynamic. you could make a case that it might work with a couple where one is transgendered to create a similar dynamic.

this is not to say that i intentionally led the convo away from including people of sexual persuasions besides hetero, just that the topic (as i understand it) kinda excludes those naturally. sort of like if someone made a thread about female-female D/s relationships. there wouldn't be anything hetero about that (unless, again, someone was transgendered).

it's actually been interesting to see people's reactions to this idea. even when the reaction is just befuddlement, it still says something. apparantly, it doesn't appeal or even compute for a lot of people. that's interesting in and of itself.

i'm at the beginning of a long journey towards my own true sexuality. that's why i love this board. just from reading the threads here, i'm expanding my own horizons and trying ideas on for size.

has anyone looked at the "taken in hand" site besides me? what was your reaction to it?