Mental play

[RJMasters]

It fascinates me how you can be so psychologically fucked with and enjoy it, I mean the mind can be a very fragile thing aren't any of you afraid of any permanent damage being done, or is that risk part of the thrill?

If danger is part of the thrill , well I read in here that the Sub must trust the Dom, well if she trusts him and knows he wont really hurt her then there is no danger, so how do you get a thrill out of it?

Trying to understand.

Retrieval

Ever been on a rollercoaster ride?

The sensible you knows that the cars are going to remain on the tracks and not fly off at breakneck speeds and smash and kill you when you violently hit the ground.

The unsensible you plays with that thought just enough to make the ride dangerious and exciting. The ride itself is pleasurable as you feel the G-forces pressing and pushing on your body...combine that with the mental aspect and you kinda of get the idea.

Yes the trust is there..or is it? I guess you will have to let go...and see if they will catch you...and there in lies the thrill, even though trust might be present, you are still at some point faced with the decision...to let go.

 

[Retrieval]

Ever been on a rollercoaster ride?

The sensible you knows that the cars are going to remain on the tracks and not fly off at breakneck speeds and smash and kill you when you violently hit the ground.

The unsensible you plays with that thought just enough to make the ride dangerious and exciting. The ride itself is pleasurable as you feel the G-forces pressing and pushing on your body...combine that with the mental aspect and you kinda of get the idea.

Yes the trust is there..or is it? I guess you will have to let go...and see if they will catch you...and there in lies the thrill, even though trust might be present, you are still at some point faced with the decision...to let go.

Lol, I hate Rollercosters so I avoid them like the plague, I understand your point though. Good analogy RJ.

 

[RJMasters]

Some mental games are not always about knives and danger either.

Some mental games can be described as feeding a person rope...and then more rope....and then pull it tight!

An example might be...a submissive does something llike an opps...and the Dominant doesn't seem to notice....the submissive thinks they got away with it....later in the day again opps....and again the dominant doesn't even seem to notice it at all....

The dominant might say that tonight we are going to do some play that the submissive really enjoys...like maybe a indication that tonight will be fur mitten night...the submissive thinks...Oh yummyyyy! Only after the restraints are in place, the dominant doesn't grab the furry mittens...instead they grab a crop....and give a blow by blow recounting of today's events....causing the submissive's mind to play catch up. Still well within the area of consent, but the switch up causes the mind-fuck because the submissive was all prepared for onething, and opps, the dominant grabbed the crop instead of the furry mittens...

Another way might be for the Dominant to say they are going to, or intend to do something, that the submissive is totally freaked about. They might say that tonight I am going to peirce your nipple with this....and pull out a long sharp shiny needle. Gives the needle to the submissive to carry with them all day.....then later may go all the way to the point of stretching the nipple and placing the needle on the skin....then at the last second take it away. The Dominant might have been just testing to see if they were willing to go that far. Now imagine the submissive takes a deep sigh of relief, and then the Dominant adds, though we didn't do this tonight, one day this week I promise you, I will infact perice your nipple with this. Next morning, gives the needle again and says tonight will be the night....in reality this goes on for 4 days, but on the fth day, he does infact do it. This takes the submissive completely by surprise as they thought the dominant was going to stop just before like they did the three days prior.

So there are other ways to do mind fucks

 

[Retrieval]

Some mental games are not always about knives and danger either.

Some mental games can be described as feeding a person rope...and then more rope....and then pull it tight!

An example might be...a submissive does something llike an opps...and the Dominant doesn't seem to notice....the submissive thinks they got away with it....later in the day again opps....and again the dominant doesn't even seem to notice it at all....

The dominant might say that tonight we are going to do some play that the submissive really enjoys...like maybe a indication that tonight will be fur mitten night...the submissive thinks...Oh yummyyyy! Only after the restraints are in place, the dominant doesn't grab the furry mittens...instead they grab a crop....and give a blow by blow recounting of today's events....causing the submissive's mind to play catch up. Still well within the area of consent, but the switch up causes the mind-fuck because the submissive was all prepared for onething, and opps, the dominant grabbed the crop instead of the furry mittens...

Another way might be for the Dominant to say they are going to, or intend to do something, that the submissive is totally freaked about. They might say that tonight I am going to peirce your nipple with this....and pull out a long sharp shiny needle. Gives the needle to the submissive to carry with them all day.....then later may go all the way to the point of stretching the nipple and placing the needle on the skin....then at the last second take it away. The Dominant might have been just testing to see if they were willing to go that far. Now imagine the submissive takes a deep sigh of relief, and then the Dominant adds, though we didn't do this tonight, one day this week I promise you, I will infact perice your nipple with this. Next morning, gives the needle again and says tonight will be the night....in reality this goes on for 4 days, but on the fth day, he does infact do it. This takes the submissive completely by surprise as they thought the dominant was going to stop just before like they did the three days prior.

So there are other ways to do mind fucks

I understand this, I call it keeping people 'unbalanced', It's something I do with my enemies, I make them underestimate me and then when they let their guard down *insert action here*, it throws their state of mind from one extreme to the other(one minute guard is up, then it's down,up,down,up,down ) eventually they become so paranoid from the stress they cave in and accept me as the winner. That's the short version anyway.

 

[RJMasters]

I understand this, I call it keeping people 'unbalanced', It's something I do with my enemies, I make them underestimate me and then when they let their guard down *insert action here*, it throws their state of mind from one extreme to the other(one minute guard is up, then it's down,up,down,up,down ) eventually they become so paranoid from the stress they cave in and accept me as the winner. That's the short version anyway.

Nods I hear you...all of which can be simulated with a blindfold, a feather and crop....

hmmm which one shall drop this time? feather?.....crop? SMACK! yep crop...now which do you think will fall? Feather? or crop?....SMACK then runs feather over the welt again and again...nope..both!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Some mental games are not always about knives and danger either.

Some mental games can be described as feeding a person rope...and then more rope....and then pull it tight!

An example might be...a submissive does something llike an opps...and the Dominant doesn't seem to notice....the submissive thinks they got away with it....later in the day again opps....and again the dominant doesn't even seem to notice it at all....

The dominant might say that tonight we are going to do some play that the submissive really enjoys...like maybe a indication that tonight will be fur mitten night...the submissive thinks...Oh yummyyyy! Only after the restraints are in place, the dominant doesn't grab the furry mittens...instead they grab a crop....and give a blow by blow recounting of today's events....causing the submissive's mind to play catch up. Still well within the area of consent, but the switch up causes the mind-fuck because the submissive was all prepared for onething, and opps, the dominant grabbed the crop instead of the furry mittens...

Another way might be for the Dominant to say they are going to, or intend to do something, that the submissive is totally freaked about. They might say that tonight I am going to peirce your nipple with this....and pull out a long sharp shiny needle. Gives the needle to the submissive to carry with them all day.....then later may go all the way to the point of stretching the nipple and placing the needle on the skin....then at the last second take it away. The Dominant might have been just testing to see if they were willing to go that far. Now imagine the submissive takes a deep sigh of relief, and then the Dominant adds, though we didn't do this tonight, one day this week I promise you, I will infact perice your nipple with this. Next morning, gives the needle again and says tonight will be the night....in reality this goes on for 4 days, but on the fth day, he does infact do it. This takes the submissive completely by surprise as they thought the dominant was going to stop just before like they did the three days prior.

So there are other ways to do mind fucks

Ooh, very hot post RJ if I may say so

 

[Softouch911]

I think you'll find that the answer is "Anything You Like". The psychology we use in a BDSM environment plays with all kinds of drives, and if you take the timne to educate yourself you can take your sub LITERALLY anywhere you want.

A word of warning, you suggest that "playing with her mind is as dangerous as playing with her body". Be aware that it is INFINATELY more so. An unthinking Dom can do some SERIOUS damage without either partner being aware of it.

I know of one particular lady who was particularly thouroughly screwed up by her ex. She now has "Multiple Personalities" and is quite incapable of any sexual feelings, even solo fantasies. I'm gonna be charitable and sugest that the guy did not intend such a result, though I have a very low opinion if his motives. After very lengthy discussions with her I belive he hypnotized her and implanted a series of "Post Hypnotic Sugestions". The "damage" done could concivably be "fixed", it would require a LOT of work, and frankly she does not trust ANYONE to help her in this capacity. She has learned to live with her situaltion.

Information is very valuable. I have spent a long time investigating this subject and I'm a LONG way from being an expert in the field. What you are playing with will include a varietly of Hypnotic Techniques as well as some that might be classed as "Brain Washing". Before you get in too deep, I suggest you get a good understanding of how those terms apply and the differences between them as well as their similarities. But also bear in mind that they are not actually very well understood even by people who DO have legitimate claim to experties in the field.

Playing with somones mind can be fun and rewarding for both partners, but walk with care upon this path.

The Dragon get's off his soap box.

An excellent post. I quote because it's worth reading twice for those who don't have it locked in their minds.

But what Retrieval says is also true -- it's powerful, fun, compelling ... and if handled with respect is the richest part of your relationship.

Why not start with role play? That, for a variety of reasons, is a relatively safe and VERY entertaining place for everyone to both feel safe and to let go.

ST

 

[s_red830]

It fascinates me how you can be so psychologically fucked with and enjoy it, I mean the mind can be a very fragile thing aren't any of you afraid of any permanent damage being done, or is that risk part of the thrill?

If danger is part of the thrill , well I read in here that the Sub must trust the Dom, well if she trusts him and knows he wont really hurt her then there is no danger, so how do you get a thrill out of it?

Trying to understand.

Retrieval

Just to answer this: for me, at least, there isn't as much "thrill" as a feeling of closeness. I think this comes from the activity giving me the ability to let someone else see through my perspective, which is a very, very rare occurence on it's own. When two people are looking through the same lenses, it's a mind-blowing emotional experience.

 

[s_red830]

I think you'll find that the answer is "Anything You Like". The psychology we use in a BDSM environment plays with all kinds of drives, and if you take the timne to educate yourself you can take your sub LITERALLY anywhere you want.

A word of warning, you suggest that "playing with her mind is as dangerous as playing with her body". Be aware that it is INFINATELY more so. An unthinking Dom can do some SERIOUS damage without either partner being aware of it.

I know of one particular lady who was particularly thouroughly screwed up by her ex. She now has "Multiple Personalities" and is quite incapable of any sexual feelings, even solo fantasies. I'm gonna be charitable and sugest that the guy did not intend such a result, though I have a very low opinion if his motives. After very lengthy discussions with her I belive he hypnotized her and implanted a series of "Post Hypnotic Sugestions". The "damage" done could concivably be "fixed", it would require a LOT of work, and frankly she does not trust ANYONE to help her in this capacity. She has learned to live with her situaltion.

Information is very valuable. I have spent a long time investigating this subject and I'm a LONG way from being an expert in the field. What you are playing with will include a varietly of Hypnotic Techniques as well as some that might be classed as "Brain Washing". Before you get in too deep, I suggest you get a good understanding of how those terms apply and the differences between them as well as their similarities. But also bear in mind that they are not actually very well understood even by people who DO have legitimate claim to experties in the field.

Playing with somones mind can be fun and rewarding for both partners, but walk with care upon this path.

The Dragon get's off his soap box.

Thank you, Dragon. I appreciate your concern that I make myself properly knowledgable.

Being someone who had a very psychiatry-laden adolesence, I am aware of many of the dangers that one can face when working with the mind, and I didn't mean to give off the impression that I would be taking this lightly if I did.

Thank you for your advice... I'll look into finding out as much information as possible before really "getting my feet wet."

~Red.

 

[s_red830]

Some mental games are not always about knives and danger either.

Some mental games can be described as feeding a person rope...and then more rope....and then pull it tight!

An example might be...a submissive does something llike an opps...and the Dominant doesn't seem to notice....the submissive thinks they got away with it....later in the day again opps....and again the dominant doesn't even seem to notice it at all....

The dominant might say that tonight we are going to do some play that the submissive really enjoys...like maybe a indication that tonight will be fur mitten night...the submissive thinks...Oh yummyyyy! Only after the restraints are in place, the dominant doesn't grab the furry mittens...instead they grab a crop....and give a blow by blow recounting of today's events....causing the submissive's mind to play catch up. Still well within the area of consent, but the switch up causes the mind-fuck because the submissive was all prepared for onething, and opps, the dominant grabbed the crop instead of the furry mittens...

Another way might be for the Dominant to say they are going to, or intend to do something, that the submissive is totally freaked about. They might say that tonight I am going to peirce your nipple with this....and pull out a long sharp shiny needle. Gives the needle to the submissive to carry with them all day.....then later may go all the way to the point of stretching the nipple and placing the needle on the skin....then at the last second take it away. The Dominant might have been just testing to see if they were willing to go that far. Now imagine the submissive takes a deep sigh of relief, and then the Dominant adds, though we didn't do this tonight, one day this week I promise you, I will infact perice your nipple with this. Next morning, gives the needle again and says tonight will be the night....in reality this goes on for 4 days, but on the fth day, he does infact do it. This takes the submissive completely by surprise as they thought the dominant was going to stop just before like they did the three days prior.

So there are other ways to do mind fucks

Exactly... thanks, that's what I'm talking about... especially the first one.

 

[Netzach]

You do have to be really careful how you deploy this kind of thing.

Any kind of a head game can be non productive verging on abuse.

If someone is trying their honest best to comply with your orders and has a certain kind of personality that takes things at face value, you do NOT fuck with that. You do NOT issue conflicting commands to see what they'll do, you do NOT pull the "oho tonight you get punished" card, you are clear, calm and honest -- exactly as you want them to be, and exactly as this type of personality always is.

You will piss this kind of a person off to the point where they will leave if you overindulge in psychodrama.

How playful is your partner? How comfortable with sarcasm, joking, practical jokes, and wickedness is your partner? How are they with surprises? Rollercoasters are a great litmus test too. Know some of this before you dive in.

 

[Dragonteeth]

Being someone who had a very psychiatry-laden adolesence, I am aware of many of the dangers that one can face when working with the mind, and I didn't mean to give off the impression that I would be taking this lightly if I did.

Actually you didn't give that impression at all, and I didnt mean to get all "Lecturey" either.

It did occur to me that I may have misinterpreted your intentions, and then there is always the possibility of other lukers reading the thread.

Several people have described some kind of Journey, its a good analogy and as long as you keep it in mind you won't go far wrong. A short journey within a much larger journey. Like so many other tools, you can get much more out of it if you teach yourself how to use it properly.

Don't take my word for anything, apart from the others here, go find things out for yourself. Better yet send your sub out to do the leg work for you....

 

[JMohegan]

You do have to be really careful how you deploy this kind of thing.

Any kind of a head game can be non productive verging on abuse.

If someone is trying their honest best to comply with your orders and has a certain kind of personality that takes things at face value, you do NOT fuck with that. You do NOT issue conflicting commands to see what they'll do, you do NOT pull the "oho tonight you get punished" card, you are clear, calm and honest -- exactly as you want them to be, and exactly as this type of personality always is.

You will piss this kind of a person off to the point where they will leave if you overindulge in psychodrama.

How playful is your partner? How comfortable with sarcasm, joking, practical jokes, and wickedness is your partner? How are they with surprises? Rollercoasters are a great litmus test too. Know some of this before you dive in.

This is an outstanding post, the contents of which I endorse 100%.

 

[JMohegan]

Some mental games can be described as feeding a person rope...and then more rope....and then pull it tight!

RJ,

I assume (from what I've read from you previously) that you would only do this type of mindfuck with a partner who appreciated or at least understood & could deal with the rollercoaster ride, as opposed to the straightforward type of sub described by Netzach. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

I have a few questions for you (or anyone else who is a rollercoaster-style Dominant). Under other circumstances, lying would be something that would reduce or even eliminate trust, as would changing the rules midstream. So how do you build and maintain trust in a relationship with this type of interaction?

I want to be clear here that these are genuine questions. I am not asking them in a rhetorical way in order to criticize mindfucks. Though (as Netzach pointed out) they are not appropriate for all submissives, it is obvious that many thrive on this sort of thing, and might even be bored silly without it.

 

[s_red830]

RJ,

I assume (from what I've read from you previously) that you would only do this type of mindfuck with a partner who appreciated or at least understood & could deal with the rollercoaster ride, as opposed to the straightforward type of sub described by Netzach. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

I have a few questions for you (or anyone else who is a rollercoaster-style Dominant). Under other circumstances, lying would be something that would reduce or even eliminate trust, as would changing the rules midstream. So how do you build and maintain trust in a relationship with this type of interaction?

I want to be clear here that these are genuine questions. I am not asking them in a rhetorical way in order to criticize mindfucks. Though (as Netzach pointed out) they are not appropriate for all submissives, it is obvious that many thrive on this sort of thing, and might even be bored silly without it.

I guess... well, I would never mindfuck without a reason. It would be for an insight on either party's part, or if my sub wanted to reach new heights of submission. Mindfucking "just 'cuz" is not something I do.

Saying that, I would hope that my sub could trust me in that I was mindfucking her for a beneficial reason, and not doing something to damage her... I guess, from my point of view it just wouldn't break trust.

 

[RJMasters]

RJ,

I assume (from what I've read from you previously) that you would only do this type of mindfuck with a partner who appreciated or at least understood & could deal with the rollercoaster ride, as opposed to the straightforward type of sub described by Netzach. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

I have a few questions for you (or anyone else who is a rollercoaster-style Dominant). Under other circumstances, lying would be something that would reduce or even eliminate trust, as would changing the rules midstream. So how do you build and maintain trust in a relationship with this type of interaction?

I want to be clear here that these are genuine questions. I am not asking them in a rhetorical way in order to criticize mindfucks. Though (as Netzach pointed out) they are not appropriate for all submissives, it is obvious that many thrive on this sort of thing, and might even be bored silly without it.

Actually JM, I am not a huge fan of Mindfucks. Nor do I think they are the stuff relationships are built out of. To me, this kind of play is done with two people who are as comforatble with each other as old shoes. One thing Netzach pointed out which I agree is that one should know their submissive well enough to know whether this kind of play is within their ability to cope with. I think there is also a slightly opposite factor which is just as important besides knowing the submissve. Its if the submissive know or understands that the dominant's character is given to these types of games and if they are comfortable in knowing that about him.

You see, it not just if the submissive can handle it, though that is of course a requirement, but it would seem to me that over the peroid of time two people get to know one another, it would be clear that some of these little twist and turns are a part of the Dominant's persona and that comes through enough in normal interaction that can be seen in their humor or in other ways. In other words I see this as not something that is done out of character.

So...no I don't think its a good idea to do these types of things early on in a relationship, but more after a familarity has been established.

The rollercoaster is certainly not a great model for a relationship, but I do see it as acceptable from time to time to take a ride on one. I would also add that I am not talking about ever going outside consent to induce the rush, but more of a keeping one off balance within known areas of consent.

There is of course a matter of risk in anything we do, be it mental, emotional or physical. I would never advocate continious on going behavior that would be unstablizing to the relationship as a whole. But I do see it as an acceptable exchange or activity that can and does take place within D/s and S/m relationships in which both parties can enjoy it.

 

[JMohegan]

I guess... well, I would never mindfuck without a reason. It would be for an insight on either party's part, or if my sub wanted to reach new heights of submission. Mindfucking "just 'cuz" is not something I do.

Saying that, I would hope that my sub could trust me in that I was mindfucking her for a beneficial reason, and not doing something to damage her... I guess, from my point of view it just wouldn't break trust.

First off, let me say that the sadistic Dominant getting off at his partner's expense counts as "a beneficial reason" in my book.

However, when you do this you still have to maintain trust if you want your partner to come back for the next round.

When I asked how you build and maintain trust I was not looking for a justification for mindfucks, but rather a concrete explanation of how you establish trust, and how you deal with the apparent violation of trust that seems to be present in lying and changing the rules midstream.

Actually JM, I am not a huge fan of Mindfucks. Nor do I think they are the stuff relationships are built out of. To me, this kind of play is done with two people who are as comforatble with each other as old shoes. One thing Netzach pointed out which I agree is that one should know their submissive well enough to know whether this kind of play is within their ability to cope with. I think there is also a slightly opposite factor which is just as important besides knowing the submissve. Its if the submissive know or understands that the dominant's character is given to these types of games and if they are comfortable in knowing that about him.

You see, it not just if the submissive can handle it, though that is of course a requirement, but it would seem to me that over the peroid of time two people get to know one another, it would be clear that some of these little twist and turns are a part of the Dominant's persona and that comes through enough in normal interaction that can be seen in their humor or in other ways. In other words I see this as not something that is done out of character.

The "old shoes" comment and the point about the submissive recognizing this as part of the sadist's overall persona/sense of humor make sense to me.

I'm still having a hard time getting my mind around the idea of mindfucks in conjunction with punishment or a scenario involving something that the submissive is "totally freaked about" (such as your nipple piercing example).

But, as you say, the important thing is that the submissive recognizes and accepts this as part of the sadist's modus operandi. Implicit in your "old shoes" analogy is the fact that (to borrow rebecca's phrase), this recognition "doesn't happen over night".

 

[s_red830]

When I asked how you build and maintain trust I was not looking for a justification for mindfucks, but rather a concrete explanation of how you establish trust, and how you deal with the apparent violation of trust that seems to be present in lying and changing the rules midstream.

In that case, I'm too new at it to be sure.

 

[JMohegan]

In that case, I'm too new at it to be sure.

Fair enough, and I appreciate your honesty.

 

[Dragonteeth]

In that case, I'm too new at it to be sure.

That comment earns you a lot of respect red, a Dom who knows his own limits is much more interesting than one who knows all the techniques in the book.

Personally the psychology I use is much more subtle than the "rollercoaster" type mind fuck, but I have allowed a sub to belive I was going to do one thing and then done a "LESSER" thing. I've never "promissed fur mittens and reached for the crop".

By sugesting a "Bad thing" and then doing a "less Bad" thing you can play with their fear and then when the desception is revealed they become reassured that all through the process you actually did have their best interests at heart, even when it looked like you didn't.

I'd be personally uncomfortable with the "fur mittens and Crop" scenario for other reasons. If you intend to employ a punnishment it is much more effective if your subject knows it's comming. It preys on the mind, especially if you "Save It Up".

Tell them they are due a "punnishment session", tell them when, but don't tell them what or why. They will spend the whole time between wondering what you have planned and evauating their own behaviour, probably for weeks in the past. They will be extra carefull to avoid making things worse, and they will almost certainly imagine something much worse than you actually intend.

Is it lying to your sub? Well it's a lie of omission if you want to be pedantic, but I'll say it again. They immagine something bad, you do something less bad and prove that you care for them and have their well being at heart. Of course it starts to fall appart if that is not true in the rest of your life together and that way lies trouble of untold scale.

 

[RJMasters]

That comment earns you a lot of respect red, a Dom who knows his own limits is much more interesting than one who knows all the techniques in the book.

Personally the psychology I use is much more subtle than the "rollercoaster" type mind fuck, but I have allowed a sub to belive I was going to do one thing and then done a "LESSER" thing. I've never "promissed fur mittens and reached for the crop".

By sugesting a "Bad thing" and then doing a "less Bad" thing you can play with their fear and then when the desception is revealed they become reassured that all through the process you actually did have their best interests at heart, even when it looked like you didn't.

I'd be personally uncomfortable with the "fur mittens and Crop" scenario for other reasons. If you intend to employ a punnishment it is much more effective if your subject knows it's comming. It preys on the mind, especially if you "Save It Up".

Tell them they are due a "punnishment session", tell them when, but don't tell them what or why. They will spend the whole time between wondering what you have planned and evauating their own behaviour, probably for weeks in the past. They will be extra carefull to avoid making things worse, and they will almost certainly imagine something much worse than you actually intend.

Is it lying to your sub? Well it's a lie of omission if you want to be pedantic, but I'll say it again. They immagine something bad, you do something less bad and prove that you care for them and have their well being at heart. Of course it starts to fall appart if that is not true in the rest of your life together and that way lies trouble of untold scale.

I guess by yours and JM comments the fur mitten and the crop thing was or is viewed as punishment type of thing...

I don't think I had that in mind, but I can see how you two might draw that conclusion. When I wrote it, what was going through my mind was....

Ha! So you thought you got a way with them opps eh....sadistic chuckle...not a chance. *puts crop under chin and lifts for eye contact...why didn't you tell me about the opps eh?...

listens to stammering....

I see....I guess that is the same excuse I will use then too about not telling you I changed my mind about using the crop rather than the furry mittens...

Then because I'm such a softy after a bit of crop and flogger....then I would put on one furry mitt and lightly brush over the red hot skin...while I slowly fingered her and let her cum from the sensation of the fur mitt and my hand.

See I am not such a bad guy...lol...

 

[Dragonteeth]

I guess by yours and JM comments the fur mitten and the crop thing was or is viewed as punishment type of thing...

I think you ARE describing a punishment thing (unless I'm mis interpreting the "opps" which I assume to be a "mistake" as in "oops" I think its the difference between American and English) but that's actually kind of beside the point.

See I am not such a bad guy...lol...

Actually this discussion is raising another importan point. EVERYONE is different. What works for one Dom/sub partnership, may not work in another. Even if only one partner changes, the dynamic is bound to be different. I would run a scene very differently with Netzach from the way I'd run a scene with Retrival, or VelvetDarkness. Just an example you understand ladies.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You do have to be really careful how you deploy this kind of thing.

How playful is your partner? How comfortable with sarcasm, joking, practical jokes, and wickedness is your partner? How are they with surprises? Rollercoasters are a great litmus test too. Know some of this before you dive in.

I think these are very good questions and I would assume that Red wouldn't be seeking info on mindfucking if he didn't already think it would be something his sub might enjoy.

You can be a subtle mindfucker in other ways to test your sub's tolerance/enjoyment of this before you get to the point where you're threatening to pierce her nipples for her!

Personally I think on a reward/punishment level the rules you impose on her should be generally consistent or she could get discouraged and feel that you're being unfair. Although, as RJ says, you don't have to point out a mistake as soon as she makes it, saving that for later is your perogative.

A good way of getting her in tune with you as a Dominant is to pick a weekend and either stay home of whisk her away somewhere but for that weekend she is a 24/7 slave. This in itself is a challenge so don't push her to much beyond that but you can plan things out in advance and then spring them on her so that although you're operating within your normal dynamic and not seeking to play with her head more than usual, she'll be caught offguard and never know what else is up your sleeve.

Of course she may not tolerate this and you can always abort the exercise at any stage but a whole weekend of focusing on you completely coupled with not knowing what will happen next will teach you an awful lot about how much of a mindfuck she's capable of taking.

Just a thought

 

[RJMasters]

Ooh, very hot post RJ if I may say so

 

[Netzach]

RJ,

I assume (from what I've read from you previously) that you would only do this type of mindfuck with a partner who appreciated or at least understood & could deal with the rollercoaster ride, as opposed to the straightforward type of sub described by Netzach. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

I have a few questions for you (or anyone else who is a rollercoaster-style Dominant). Under other circumstances, lying would be something that would reduce or even eliminate trust, as would changing the rules midstream. So how do you build and maintain trust in a relationship with this type of interaction?

I want to be clear here that these are genuine questions. I am not asking them in a rhetorical way in order to criticize mindfucks. Though (as Netzach pointed out) they are not appropriate for all submissives, it is obvious that many thrive on this sort of thing, and might even be bored silly without it.

I have one partner who thrives on this kind of thing and one who does not, I don't think it's always bad to play this way and I don't think it's always good.

How do I reconcile lying? He's my property. He can trust me to be honest with him when it counts and to tell as many little white lies and have as many omissions as I feel like it, when it's small piddly stuff. He accepts my definition of small and piddly because I am in charge. He understands that misinformation is for the purposes of heightened play and accepts that and also knows that during any serious discussions I'm being serious and honest. It's a trust thing.