Mental play

[@}-}rebecca----]

I have one partner who thrives on this kind of thing and one who does not, I don't think it's always bad to play this way and I don't think it's always good.

How do I reconcile lying? He's my property. He can trust me to be honest with him when it counts and to tell as many little white lies and have as many omissions as I feel like it, when it's small piddly stuff. He accepts my definition of small and piddly because I am in charge. He understands that misinformation is for the purposes of heightened play and accepts that and also knows that during any serious discussions I'm being serious and honest. It's a trust thing.

All the above stated

I don't have the applause icon that Angelic uses

 

[Marquis]

I'm feeling some major deja vu here, but I'm happy to post on this again, being one of my favorite expressions of kink.

I have endless examples of great mindfucks I've thought about, heard about and played with personally. Without going into any of those examples yet, I think there are a few points I've found that are relevant to this conversation.

First of all, I've found lying during mindfucks is counterproductive. Both to building/maintaining trust in the relationship, and to the quality of the mindfuck itself.

I don't have any ethical problems with lying within the context of a mindfuck, but I do believe that it can chip away at trust.

I think the best mindfucks are those that exploit an insecurity, weakness or fear of the submissive's. If you're sensitive to a person's fears, you can use that against them without ever lying, and even prove a point while you're at it.

Here's a mindfuck I did some time back, to give an example of what I mean.

As I'm sure many of you know, I have a steady girlfriend. We're not monogamous however, in that I fuck pretty much who I want to, with a few rules regarding safety and respect. One rule is that I must use protection and the other rule is that I must change the sheets and otherwise clean up after my other company. Suffice it to say these are fairly major issues for my loved one.

It's easy for her to tell if I changed the sheets, because I have two pair of sheets, red and black. One is used while the other is washed.

Anyway, my sub came over one night after I had had a date the night before. She asked me what happened and I was very vague. I'm sure she suspected something was up because I usually share every detail with her.

This highlights a good point. I think the more obvious you make it that you ARE performing a mindfuck, the more satisfying the mindfuck itself is, provided you can still pull it off. Anyone can set up a contrived situation to spook another person, but it takes a real pimp to smile when its all over and say "What was the problem baby?" In any case, the only way to dominate in my book is to call your shots like a pool shark.

So, she dropped it and we enjoyed a nice dinner. I led her into the bedroom with the lights off and we got between the sheets. As we got more excited, I said something along the lines of, "You know, I think this is exactly the spot where I fucked that girl last night."

She immediately tightened up. "These better be the other sheets."

It's helpful to add that I've tried to get her to relax about that policy, so it's reasonable of her to believe that I might be trying to get her to deal with it by thrusting her into the situation she fears (partially true).

I responded, chuckling, "I can't make any promises about that."

More fucking...

"Awww, what's the matter baby? You don't like the idea of being fucked right on top of where that other girl sweated and dripped her pussy juice all over the sheets? How does that make you feel?"

At this point she started to get really tense and I had to hold her down. There is a remote we keep by the bed that controls the lights and she turned them on. Much to her horror, the same sheets she had seen last morning were still on the bed.

She got very upset. I held her down and finished fucking her while she hissed at me and scratched at my face. Always good to throw a little rape play into a scene.

I came and let her go. She got up, steaming. Shit-eating grin, I asked her what was wrong and tried to hug her. I waited for her to calm down a bit, then explained to her that I washed and dried the sheets after last night's date left and put them back on the bed.

No lies, but no real "danger" either. Merely the exploitation of her phobia of being in contact with some random slut's body juices, leading her to assume that I might break the rules.

If I had lied directly, and told her that she was indeed getting fucked in another girl's sweatpool, it would be hard to get her to believe me when I said "just kidding," unless I had proof to the opposite. But even so, she'd know I was comfortable lying to her and that's not something I want her wondering about.

But furthermore, lying is a cheap and easy way to perform a mindfuck. It sets up future mindfucks much better if she's forced to keep guessing, knowing that the answer is available to her within the facts I've given her, like a good mystery novel.

Additionally, the game as it was played showed her that I was conscious of the rules, and maybe even made her feel silly about doubting my respect for them or my honesty.

 

[Softouch911]

How do I reconcile lying? He's my property. He can trust me to be honest with him when it counts and to tell as many little white lies and have as many omissions as I feel like it, when it's small piddly stuff. He accepts my definition of small and piddly because I am in charge. He understands that misinformation is for the purposes of heightened play and accepts that and also knows that during any serious discussions I'm being serious and honest. It's a trust thing.

Exactly. This is the statement that has been missing from the thread discussion.

I'd been toying with the idea of posting the following example. With Netzach's clarification, it fits pretty well ....

At a dungeon demo in Atlanta, a Domme of long experience presented some examples of the mindfuck with her submissive of long experience. They also had been involved in a lengthy relationship -- in other words, if either long experience or lengthy relationship is missing, don't try this at home, etc.

She had her submissive (male) restrained and intimidated through a series of escalating levels of interrogation and physical play ... none of which, as those who watched could witness, was as intense as her threats, and his reactions, would lead you to believe.

After it was clear the submissive was in a very anxious state, she brought out her "favorite" toy, and one which he was clearly apprehensive about ... a knife. It was an expensive and finely honed implement which she proceeded to further hone in front of him, meanwhile reinforcing his fear of it. "Do you know how sharp this is? I know how you hate to think of being cut. How deep do you think this would sink if I slip? etc." She proceeded to cut pieces of paper, dangling from her fingers, with the very sharp edge.

Finally, she stalked behind him, at an angle where he was not able to see. She warned him to remain very still as she was going to use the blade on him. Meanwhile she switched the very sharp blade for one that is dull and blunt. This dull weapon she proceeded to threaten him with, letting him feel the cold metal on his shoulders, the top of his glutes, his thighs ... then she "cut" him with it.

The sub leapt as if he had been badly hurt. There was NO damage from the blade, however.

After some time for her to take him away and provide him with the aftercare he needed (for the moment), they returned together to discuss the experience. He told us that he felt the knife blade burn as if it was cutting him and deeply. He mistook trickles of sweat for blood on his ribs. He had been certain she was cutting on him, except of course he knew he trusted her and that she was most likely mindfucking him.

It was a vivid and powerful presentation. He and she and those who watched enjoyed it .... but again the fine print: it's certainly not for everyone.

ST

 

[Marquis]

The knife switch is a very popular and effective mindfuck, but I'll point out that there was no lying in the story as you presented it Softouch.

 

[Softouch911]

The knife switch is a very popular and effective mindfuck, but I'll point out that there was no lying in the story as you presented it Softouch.

Correct. I should have pointed that out but it didn't occur to me until I was reading your post -- which I posted on top of and without reading. It's an important addition ... yeah, you can lie, but as I learned when I was 11 yrs old the unpleasant consequences have to be lived with.


ST

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I'm going to do a spot of lurking on this thread, and may jump in with a question from time to time. I have just begun, after a modicum of cajoling from a few sources, to write a BDSM related tale.

Since my experience of the subject is an absolute zero, I find, after a dawning of realisation, that I need to research my subject. I was pointed to this thread by a third party, who may wish to remain anonymous, and I'll leave it up to the individual as to whether or not they want to say hello.

The (original) premise of the piece was to take a sub female into the public arena and humiliate her... I am now reappraising the situation after some of the revelations on the thread. My piece doesn't do the subject justice, and I hope the final product does.

Wow, I've waffled on a bit there. Anyway, I'm gonna lurk.

 

[Kailey_86]

i feel like pushing boundaries is a form of a "mind fuck." How far are you willing to go for Me? What are you capable of? I know you are scared but can you do it? Trust between partners in a situation like this is a must. If the sub is able to push her boundaries and sees that her world didn't fall apart she has successfully added another level of trust to the relationship. i like that feeling. i have a longing to obey and please so if He asks me to do something that scares me to death i will still probably do it. i like being scared as hell but knowing that i am safe. i agree that it is a lot like riding a roller coaster. It's a thrill. i end up being completely exhausted at the end even if the task wasn't physical but i am also satisfied and content.

There are so many great ideas in this thread.

 

[sexychik69]

I think you'll find that the answer is "Anything You Like". The psychology we use in a BDSM environment plays with all kinds of drives, and if you take the timne to educate yourself you can take your sub LITERALLY anywhere you want.

A word of warning, you suggest that "playing with her mind is as dangerous as playing with her body". Be aware that it is INFINATELY more so. An unthinking Dom can do some SERIOUS damage without either partner being aware of it.

I know of one particular lady who was particularly thouroughly screwed up by her ex. She now has "Multiple Personalities" and is quite incapable of any sexual feelings, even solo fantasies. I'm gonna be charitable and sugest that the guy did not intend such a result, though I have a very low opinion if his motives. After very lengthy discussions with her I belive he hypnotized her and implanted a series of "Post Hypnotic Sugestions". The "damage" done could concivably be "fixed", it would require a LOT of work, and frankly she does not trust ANYONE to help her in this capacity. She has learned to live with her situaltion.

Information is very valuable. I have spent a long time investigating this subject and I'm a LONG way from being an expert in the field. What you are playing with will include a varietly of Hypnotic Techniques as well as some that might be classed as "Brain Washing". Before you get in too deep, I suggest you get a good understanding of how those terms apply and the differences between them as well as their similarities. But also bear in mind that they are not actually very well understood even by people who DO have legitimate claim to experties in the field.

Playing with somones mind can be fun and rewarding for both partners, but walk with care upon this path.

The Dragon get's off his soap box.

Just remember that hypnosis cannot make ANYONE do something they consider immoral or injust. It's an amazingly erotic ways to explore limits, however, and to really see where her limits are and literally go to the basics of the differences between right and wrong for her. Once this is established, play can go on a complete different road, you can begin to bring things into play that she did not think was physically possible but really is. Mind control is a huge turn-on for me personally. Anyone that can blindfold me and take control of my thoughts is the Dom for me... although I've only met one thus far.

Keep us updated though.

 

[sexychik69]

It fascinates me how you can be so psychologically fucked with and enjoy it, I mean the mind can be a very fragile thing aren't any of you afraid of any permanent damage being done, or is that risk part of the thrill?

If danger is part of the thrill , well I read in here that the Sub must trust the Dom, well if she trusts him and knows he wont really hurt her then there is no danger, so how do you get a thrill out of it?

Trying to understand.

Retrieval

Well, as long as the sub and Dom have discussed what things the sub considers "safe" and knows what her HARD limits are, then I could see how one could see that the excitement of play would be a little... predictable.

Start listing off your favorite foods in your head. Sweets, drinks, dinners... everything that you find appealing at all. Once you get to the bottom of the list, maybe not even that far, you'd get a little hungry, right?

Just because you know what COULD happen doesn't mean you know what WILL happen. It's the not knowing for me.

 

[Softouch911]

Well, as long as the sub and Dom have discussed what things the sub considers "safe" and knows what her HARD limits are, then I could see how one could see that the excitement of play would be a little... predictable.

Start listing off your favorite foods in your head. Sweets, drinks, dinners... everything that you find appealing at all. Once you get to the bottom of the list, maybe not even that far, you'd get a little hungry, right?

Just because you know what COULD happen doesn't mean you know what WILL happen. It's the not knowing for me.

Retrieval's question --

if she trusts him and knows he wont really hurt her then there is no danger, so how do you get a thrill out of it?

-- assumes that there's no adventure and no fun unless your life is really on the line.

But millions of people stand in line to ride on roller coasters each year, virtually none of them believing that their life is in REAL danger. In fact, if they didn't "trust" the design and maintenance of the roller coaster operation (wisely or unwisely) most of them wouldn't be there, I'll bet.

So, for my submissive, there are two thrills.

One is in "not-knowing" exactly what will happen, as described by sexychik.

The other occurs because she DOES know what will NOT happen -- I mean she knows that I will not allow anything to seriously endanger her ... this gives her permission to really let go of her emotions and her fantasies and give in to the entire experience.

Even that has another dimension. One of the faves of Mine is knife play -- now, of course that can be very dangerous -- but as we explained it earlier in this thread ... while she pretty much knows that the knife will be switched, or the dull side will be used, or it will be done with SSC restraints in place, and she knows, in addition, that she has done this before and come out of it basically unharmed -- all of this knowledge creates trust beyond what she has in Me, and allows her to really let loose.

Nothing strange in this. How many "Jason" horror flicks are there now? 317? Yet sometimes even they still work.

ST

 

[Dragonteeth]

Just remember that hypnosis cannot make ANYONE do something they consider immoral or injust. It's an amazingly erotic ways to explore limits, however, and to really see where her limits are and literally go to the basics of the differences between right and wrong for her. Once this is established, play can go on a complete different road, you can begin to bring things into play that she did not think was physically possible but really is. Mind control is a huge turn-on for me personally. Anyone that can blindfold me and take control of my thoughts is the Dom for me... although I've only met one thus far.

Keep us updated though.

Weeellll...

Yes, that's true, but it's not that hard to manipulate the subjects perceptions or to warp their interpretation.

I'm not saying don't do it, it is highly erotic, and can be wonderfull for both partners. All I'm saying is to proceed with caution, I once herd Hypnosis reffered to as "...taking someone elses mind for a test drive...". The main thing to remember is that a seemingly inocent suggestion could do damage without you realising it. The issue is that the damage you do might not show imediately, or obviously.

But hey, nothing we do is entirely without risk...

 

[MechaBlade]

"Awww, what's the matter baby? You don't like the idea of being fucked right on top of where that other girl sweated and dripped her pussy juice all over the sheets? How does that make you feel?"

Haha, excellent. I was pointed here from the "in praise of the mindfuck" in the GB and had to comment.