Mental submission

[intothewoods]

Wow! This just makes me melt. I've felt this with an online Dom but never in real life. It sounds heavenly.

In my inexperience, I don't feel I have much to add but this is an interesting topic. I wonder if some sub drop is involved sometimes. However, shy mentioned that she felt this with no conditioning whatsoever, so I wonder what it really is; science as in a chemical reaction or a woo woo soulmate reaction (or a bit of both).

What it really is is submission, nothing more, nothing less. I think I'm with JM. Who knows why two people click?

 

[HarletMinx]

My take on mental submission is the place where one minute you are going about daily life, the next your entire focus is on your PYL.

I think you actually hit it on the head in that one line. We, during the coarse of our lives, have to deal with hundreds of distractions but for one moment that all falls away. But it's more of that, this one person becomes your world. And you know that they hold you in the palm of their hands and love them for it. Except it's none of that.... it's eroticism, adoration, trust, and a desire to please all combined into one emotion. It could be how they walk up behind you, holding you as they nibble (or bite as the case may be) your neck or something simple like feeding you a bite of food. Anyways, that's my attempt to explain it.

-Piper

 

[BeachGurl2]

I would say that mental submission involves altering or adapting points of view, goals, etc., to reflect those of the person to whom you submit.

This is an interesting statement, JM. I think in some ways you're probably right, but I don't know that I believe that explains the type of mental submission that Shy is referring to. Unless I misunderstand the original point. Care to expound on that one?

What explains it? A combination of charisma, affection, respect, habit, and recognition or acknowledgment of superior wisdom or experience in one or more areas. The mixture varies, depending on context and the underlying nature of the relationship itself.

I can better accept this thought. When I read Shy's original post, I think my take on it was probably a little different from yours. I equated the point with more of a Pavlovian type of conditioning, in some ways. Although I certainly don't mean to imply that I think that mental submission is mindless in any way. Quite the opposite. But I look at the type of mental submission I've experienced and it seems a bit like that. And I think it's the connection, committment, and level of trust/respect that develops over time, combined with the strength of the Dom to lead in all areas of life.

When I read Shy's post, my thought was more about those little things that happen during your day that put you into that 'state' where no matter what you're doing, the 'state' that you're thinking of something related to your Dom. A scent, a sound, a task, a voice - even things like specific foods and music you may hear. In some ways, it's like getting someone to the point that they can cum on command. That level of connection can be quite deep and lead to all sorts of behaviors that you (the sub) may never have thought you would do - at least that has been true in one previous relationship for me. The connection was so total that it seemed almost ESP-like.

I can't explain it, it just happens. I'm sure, Shy, that you sort of feel similarly. It's just there and you can sort of talk about it, but not really explain the depth of it or where it comes from or even why it's there. But it is. And when it is there, it can be quite intense.

 

[BeachGurl2]

. . .this one person becomes your world. And you know that they hold you in the palm of their hands and love them for it. Except it's none of that.... it's eroticism, adoration, trust, and a desire to please all combined into one emotion. It could be how they walk up behind you, holding you as the nibble (or bite as the case may be) your neck or something simple like feeding you a bite of food. Anyways, that's my attempt to explain it.

-Piper

I think you explained it quite well. The highlighted statement says it especially well.

 

[JMohegan]

This is an interesting statement, JM. I think in some ways you're probably right, but I don't know that I believe that explains the type of mental submission that Shy is referring to. Unless I misunderstand the original point. Care to expound on that one?

Sure.

I initially thought Shy was seeking different ideas as to what mental (as opposed to physical) submission might be.

The quivering, shivering, crumbling, melting thing isn't what I would usually refer to as mental submission. I guess if I had to give it a name, I'd call those reactions submissive arousal, or something.

The definition of mental submission I would normally use is that which you quoted. Much more of a general life, not necessarily sexual, kind of thing. Something that can be inspired by a teacher, coach, mentor, etc. Personal relationship not necessarily a prerequisite.

 

[Netzach]

This is a curious statement.

It comes back to my difficulty with trying to figure out what it is that makes them deserve it.

I have spoken to someone I don't even like, yet it can be instant submission. Otehr people who are great to be with, nothing, nada, nil.

I can't explain it.

I guess there is that pure charisma with some people, but for me, no nice, no dice. I always hated the profs, for example, who were just assholes to everyone to try to get you to work harder. I'm not stupid, I don't need that kind of treatment.

My Bull has me in his back pocket because I know, inside and out, the sheer adoration he has for me, the adoration that cannot be faked, that spills out emphatically with a half a drink in you, the adoration that makes him admit thinking about life without me makes his chest tight and "like he'd cry for three months straight." Yeah, I'm not too proud to bend over backward, or forward for that matter, for this plus the right dosage of animal attraction.

Why he can drop me is because he is someone who has managed to create

1. the elaborate and insane architectural feat of making a foundation so secure and expansive that I actually feel safe to try anything - me, ms. look both ways always.

2. a hot and appealing Alice type of adventure-sense in following my own perverse curiosity and finding out what he's got in mind because I'm just that stubborn

3. Enough presence as a Dominant via my own finicky desires and criteria to seduce me as a submissive. I'm sure he doesn't set off everyone's alpha charts, but that's perfect, he sets off mine.

I am the quintissential sugar-addicted fly. Er, maybe a sugar-addicted black widow or something. All the same.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Sure.

I initially thought Shy was seeking different ideas as to what mental (as opposed to physical) submission might be.

The quivering, shivering, crumbling, melting thing isn't what I would usually refer to as mental submission. I guess if I had to give it a name, I'd call those reactions submissive arousal, or something.

The definition of mental submission I would normally use is that which you quoted. Much more of a general life, not necessarily sexual, kind of thing. Something that can be inspired by a teacher, coach, mentor, etc. Personal relationship not necessarily a prerequisite.

Thank you for that. Now I get what you mean.

I wasn't only referring to the types of responses that I highlighted in blue above, but those do fall into it. It can be something that makes me behave in a certain way, or present myself in a certain way. Or make me think of something that may or may not have sexual connotations. I used the example I did because it is what I would consider an extreme one. But mental submission - that submission that is there even when you are physically apart - can include quite simple things as well.

My behavior away from him is something that he may never see or know about. The fact that the connection we have - the trust, the level of respect, the committment - is so strong that my submission is there even in those situations supports that idea of mental submission that you mentioned in addition to the type of mental submission I believe Shy was alluding to.

 

[intothewoods]

Sure.

I initially thought Shy was seeking different ideas as to what mental (as opposed to physical) submission might be.

The quivering, shivering, crumbling, melting thing isn't what I would usually refer to as mental submission. I guess if I had to give it a name, I'd call those reactions submissive arousal, or something.

The definition of mental submission I would normally use is that which you quoted. Much more of a general life, not necessarily sexual, kind of thing. Something that can be inspired by a teacher, coach, mentor, etc. Personal relationship not necessarily a prerequisite.

The reason I mentioned crumbling is because when I'm in that headspace I do always think about bowing at his feet. I don't know why. It's pretty unlike me.

But Shy originally said that moment you slip into another headspace. I have never felt that "slip" in general life. I've been inspired by people, but it's not about serving them. That's more the I'm-a-good-girl-look-what-I-can-do headspace. I think for me when I've 'slipped' in a scene, let's say, it usually relates to service: I'll do anything you ask, I want only your pleasure, etc.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[HarletMinx]

I guess there is that pure charisma with some people, but for me, no nice, no dice. I always hated the profs, for example, who were just assholes to everyone to try to get you to work harder. I'm not stupid, I don't need that kind of treatment.

Yes, I've sometimes noticed that people try to substitute ego with dominance, they just don't equate.

1. the elaborate and insane architectural feat of making a foundation so secure and expansive that I actually feel safe to try anything - me, ms. look both ways always.

That about sums it up. I just don't see that kind of trust in vanilla relationships.

 

[Netzach]

That about sums it up. I just don't see that kind of trust in vanilla relationships.

Oh, I have. I think I even started a thread about that. I think it's rare in both D/s and in vanilla rels, but possible, as an ideal of intimacy.

 

[museofdragon]

Thank you muse.

It is that BOOM effect someone can have on you.

You say it is a conditioned response, but when did it start?

When Andante and I were together it was from the very first time I heard his voice. No conditioning, just instantly there.
It grew into a conditioned response on a deeper level, but that is different.

I wish I were able to articulate how the combination of things (as JM described) can give that deeper level, beyond 'play'

Actually, my response to that has little to do with 'play' and much more to do with focus -- sort of a re-centering of my universe. It did start back at the very begining. i've always responded to his voice. (That kick-ass Scottish accent may have something to do with it.) Something about his voice has always resonated in me.

As badly as i hate to sound all sappy, the first time i heard his voice it was like a little alarm went off in my head that said,"Hey stupid, pay attention. This is important."

i wish i could explain it better, but the best i can do is to say that He and i had an involuntary, almost instantaneous connection.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Yes, I've sometimes noticed that people try to substitute ego with dominance, they just don't equate.



That about sums it up. I just don't see that kind of trust in vanilla relationships.

My marriage is vanilla and it has that kind of trust.

 

[twysted73]

My marriage is vanilla and it has that kind of trust.

Then I would have to say you are a very lucky individual.

 

[Homburg]

There is a flip side of this concept for me. I'm socially dominant in general, and Dominant sexually, but I've come to notice that it takes a certain type of person to really pull the serious Dominant out of me. Not that I'm wandering around switchy, just that certain people cause my Dom to just bubble to the surface hard and nasty.

It's difficult to articulate, but there have been women that I've met in my life that it was all I could do not to take her by the hair and make her kneel by sheer force of presence. It is the same sort of connection and chemistry being talked about here, experienced on the handle side of the whip.

Without it that sort of chemistry, I'll play, but I won't even be remotely interested in anything else. With it? Look out...

(And, yes, "v" is very definitely one of those women.)

 

[Netzach]

Then I would have to say you are a very lucky individual.

Frankly considering the fact that there are as many if not more total train wrecks of rels. that I see in this community all the time, I think anyone at all is lucky to have a good one.

I think we just THINK we communicate a lot better.

 

[HarletMinx]

My marriage is vanilla and it has that kind of trust.

I stand corrected, and will ditto what twysted said. I myself have just yet to see it in other relationships, though probably due to it's rareness in general.

I think we just THINK we communicate a lot better.

And then there is that too.

-Piper

 

[Homburg]

I think we just THINK we communicate a lot better.

I'd say we communicate better (going D/s vastly bettered communication in my own marriage), I just don't think that communication magically solves all ills. BDSM also adds additional stressors on a relationship, so any gain realised from better communication may be countered by the additional emotional burden of power exchange, and the attendant weirdness that comes along with expressing one's kinks.

 

[twysted73]

Many good ideas so far!

But...so often are asked the questions, "How does this happen?" & "Why does/doesn't this happen to me?"

The complexities of the human mind are still too far out of the reach of modern science and psychology, but it's catching up. As the infusion of religious dogma decreases, the boundries of human psychosis expand.

In so many situations where one who desires cannot seem to find another who feels as they do, that's a matter of location, exposure to the lifestyle as well as personal limitations. (let's hear it for Lit!)

It's just human chemistry. Thousands of years of "advancement" (woe be it for me to call it "evolution" *mock-manically bites fingernails dramatically)
has enabled us to pick up and "sense" certain things that we seek in others.

As of late (last two years or so) I've been very much intouch with what I like, what I enjoy in my partner and I have not one iota of difficulty in expressing what my personal views and opinions about those desires are with those around me. (I'm just glad my grandparents never lived to see it. They always thought I was such a sweet, lovable, cuddly boy) **laughs maniacally**

*coughs*

Where was I? I digress. Ever since having embraced (not concealed) who and what I was I am happier, more centered, and...find myself coming into contact with like-minds FAR more frequently. And I feel this is due, in part, to the subconscious signals we all put out to attract those we seem to do well with.
Likewise with personal relationships. I seem to attract those women who are amazing to know and learn but carry within them just a dash more insanity then your average bear. Sure it makes for hellacious and tempestuous relationships. But I have had to admit to myself that, at this point in my life, I really enjoy and relish the slightly touched.
*sighs and chuckles deep within his chest*

Wow. Anyone else want some couch time? There's room. *pats the open spot next to him*

 

[VelvetDarkness]

My Sir just completely had me from day 1. We chatted online a few times and some while after that I was working in his city for a few days. We had swapped numbers by then so I sent him a text asking if he wanted to meet up. It was all unplanned so he was quite surprised.

We met, had a drink, had dinner, he walked me to where I was staying and I just got this over-whelming wave of feeling. I could not walk away from him. I could not turn my back on him or say goodbye. It was frightening to feel so debillitated in his presence because it had never happened to me before. Then, just as I had begun to painc that it wouldn't happen (bastard ) he pulled me to him and kissed me. I was totally lost. If he had told me to strip in the street I would have.

It has never gone away or diminished and now, a year later, he only has to look at me with that wicked gleam in his eye and all I know is that I am at all times his for the taking, for the use of. Nothing more or less. His.

I can't explain why it was him, why it was so instantaneous and so strong or why I feel exactly the same to this day. I just do. I feel it with every atom of my being to the exclusion of all else.

 

[SubKekiLee]

Velvet sounds so much like my story.. I was very heartbroken from an issue a few weeks earlier and when I met my now Sir.....We had chatted and chatted sometimes for hours on end not even noticing the time. then we progressed to a few phone calls, we decide to meet only as friends and have dinner the following weekend, When he walked into the restaurant I melted he could have told me to drop to my knees and I would have. He kissed me in the restaurant and that was it for me I was melted and totally into him. I cannot wait to progress in this journey... he makes me want to be a better person and makes me want to push myself to the edge of life..

 

[BeachGurl2]

It's chemistry...

On "spec", on "paper" - I should have felt some sort of spark with W when we met for coffee/spend a few hours together once a week, but I didn't.

On "spec", on "paper" - I shouldn't have felt it with John, but I do.

Isn't it interesting how that works out? I've had people I connected with via email but nothing in person, and vice versa. Of course, it has to be two-way in order to move toward something, but I've always been interested by how it works with some even when it seems that it shouldn't.

 

[SubKekiLee]

Just my two cents here, recently after many years of
being on and off in this lifestyle, I met a dom who
inspired me more than I can imagine. He is in my mind at
all times wether we are together or not. I can close
my eyes and hear his voice, if I am at work, at home,
at the gym or just driving. I can hear his voice I can
feel his touch. I am glad I took this chance because
he told me he would get into my mind and never leave..
that all I had to do to be close to him was close my
eyes and think he would be there.. He is an amazing
man and I am thankful for me that he chose me as his
pet..

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Velvet sounds so much like my story.. I was very heartbroken from an issue a few weeks earlier and when I met my now Sir.....We had chatted and chatted sometimes for hours on end not even noticing the time. then we progressed to a few phone calls, we decide to meet only as friends and have dinner the following weekend, When he walked into the restaurant I melted he could have told me to drop to my knees and I would have. He kissed me in the restaurant and that was it for me I was melted and totally into him. I cannot wait to progress in this journey... he makes me want to be a better person and makes me want to push myself to the edge of life..

It's such a wonderful feeling isn't it? To be totally loved, cherished and supported. Some days I wake up and believe there is nothing I couldn't accomplish. It's like a kind of low-level, constant euphoria

 

[SubKekiLee]

It's such a wonderful feeling isn't it? To be totally loved, cherished and supported. Some days I wake up and believe there is nothing I couldn't accomplish. It's like a kind of low-level, constant euphoria

Yes maam it is.. I am cherished and it makes me feel so good about it. I like that he inspires me to be a better person. =0) We are blessed arent we Velvet..