Multiple Submissives

[JMohegan]

Falling, I'm with Joe here. Your relationship with your Lady may be wonderfully fulfilling for you, but it's not really poly, nor is it consensual.....

Great post, blue kat. Please call me John, or JM.

Just to get back to the original point here. In my first post I was not suggesting that I essentially faced the same facts in the terms of it being a poly relationship. But at the heart of this issue, from my perspective, is how you find trust in a relationship.

You asserted that you face the same issues. I disagree.

How do you trust someone who is demonstrably untrustworthy in one of his/her other personal relationships? That's your issue, but not the one faced by the OP.

 

[MasterTexas]

Proceed carefully and cautiously...

I enjoyed reading your post regarding your concerns about being in the relationship with your Dom who has other submissives.

I would like to share with you my thoughts, observations and a bit of advice based upon 20 plus years in the lifestyle and having seen many real life "poly" relationships:

1. Proceed VERY carefully in commiting to your Dom...in my experience very few submissives who enter into a poly relationship are ever completelly fulfilled....usually someone ends up feeling ignored, not getting enough time, attention from their Master etc. Being new, you will most likely be on the bottom of the "pecking order" .

2. My observation is that MOST Dominants who want more than one submissive do it because it is a an ego stroke to them, the more they have...the more important and powerful they feel. Those who need "many" usually have the least to give IMHO, and what they do have to give is spilit among their "harem".

3. Please understand, also that in MANY cases...how attentive, loving and caring He seems now...in many cases that changes when the collar goes on. Much like how people change after being married. Right now, He wants to add you to His stable..so it is natural He is attentive, it is the "chase" that often fires a Dominants soul. Once captured, the thrill is gone and who your Dom really is will be revealed.

The bottom line is this, whatever you choose...it is your choice, and you have to be willing to accept and results of your choice, good or bad.

 

[Spacey2005]

Thanks to the replies to my post from blue kat and CutieMouse, and the several others since then not directed to me, all of which were thoughtful and appreciated. As I said before, this is a quality thread.

I wrote pretty much exactly as I intended, without condescension. I came to this thread simply wanting to understand and help my friend. But this is not about me, and it's not about the merits or demerits of polyamory or D/s -- it's specifically about Melanie's dilemma with jealousy about multiple subs, and I was simply trying to amplify the thread by including my friend's situation, which is the same as Melanie's with the addition of the problem of a mutual long-term incompatibility with her Dom (she would like a family, he would not).

My friend says she's not going to participate, but she's listening, so I'll move to the sideline, hoping that a few people who have gone through similar experiences can illuminate these questions with some "lessons learned" stories.

 

[littlegirlslut]

The same thing happened the a girl I used to live with. She wanted to engage in a BDSM related relationship and decided to try online. I told her it was a bad idea but she insisted. She got pretty heavilly involved with a guy and she found out that he lied about *everything* including that he had multiple submissives. She found out because of an email with a 'fantasy' in it with another womans name in it.

She was pretty fucked up because of it. She still hasn't tried again .. though I keep trying to get her to come to a party to meet some people in the scene even to make friends, but she's really not interested right now. Poor darl.

People can be so cruel .. *sigh*

Sadly we met online but lived close. He lied to me while we were in a 24/7 real life experience - we had separate apartments and apparently separate lives.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Master Texas welcome & well written. I agree with your observations.

 

[MelancholyBaby]

Thanks everyone

Hi,

I'd just like to thank you for all of the great advice and insight that you've offered me. I ended up sending Him a lengthy email after your comments helped me think. His response was very positive and He was happy I took an interest in learning more about the lifestyle and what kind of situation I could find myself in with Him. We've played IM-tag the last few days so I am hoping we will be online at the same time to discuss my email and his response in greater detail. I just want to understand and then I can see (with as much insight as anyone can short of actually living it r/t) if it is for me. I'm ok with the fact that I just may not be able to handle that, you all have helped me understand that it is no character defect of mine if I can't do it. Whatever I decide I will most certainly be honest and open with my Dominant as I owe it to Him to let Him know how I am feeling.

I'm still trying to figure out the exact dynamic...I am trying to find out the "hierarchy" or lack thereof that would exist among His submissives. Also I am eager to know His motive or reason for wanting more than one submissives. Is it an ego thing or a "I enjoy helping others grow thing," etc. I'm also trying to work on keeping the communication channels open on my end. Sometimes when I'm upset or confused I tend to withdraw and distance myself when in fact I should be doing the opposite...be introspective and then share with Him what I am upset or confused about. So wish me luck on that.

Thank You again for taking the time to respond.

Melanie

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I've had monogamous relationships and poly relationships and variations on the theme... *grins*

In my monogamous relationships, jealousy has been an issue on more than one occassion, and over the years I've traced the roots of jealousy back to a common source. Insecurity. People who are not absolutely secure in their relationship will tend to express that insecurity as jealousy.

It's okay to to feel jealous. It's a normal human emotion. What matters is how you deal with it.

In a poly relationship, you HAVE to communicate it. Get it out in the open, deal with it honestly. By allowing you to express the feeling, without condemnation or accusation, your partners will help you feel more secure in the relationship. Communicate, communicate, communicate!

In my personal experience, I have found that allowing my submissive partners to develop their own relationship, their own friendship, their own level of intimacy, at their own pace, has been a key to the success of the overall poly relationship. Forcing the relationship on the submissives from the Top down can have all sorts of negative results. Yes, you can make it happen short term. But if there isn't a connection between the submissives, they'll view one another as competition, and will work against one another for the long term. It _will_ get ugly...

In my current relationship, janey and I have been together 3 plus years. Sexually we are body fluid bonded/monogamous, at least so far. However, I have played (SM scenes) with many others, and she has played with a few as well. Never behind the other's back, always with the knowledge and consent of one another. I indulge janey's sadistic/Toppy side and we've even co-topped during scenes. But she knows where My heart lies, who I am coming home with and too, who I want to grow old with.

We have discussed having a third (or more) join our family, it is a possibility that we keep open. It will be something that we both desire, with someone that we both wish to develop an even closer relationship with, that we both want to share our hearts, lives, and home with. As in other areas of our lives, if we establish a poly relationship, it will be as partners, with our eyes and ears and hearts and minds open to the possibilities, but also with the commitment and dedication to one another that is the cement that binds us together.

I can't say if that will work for others, but it works for me and mine.

 

[Netzach]

-I've talked about this with him many times and he always listens and tries to understand where I'm coming from, although sometimes I can't explain myself very well. I don't know if I could sum it up by saying I would be ok with sharing his bed but not his "love?"

Had my husband given me this stipulation early in the rel. I would have told him I'm not the woman for him. Actually if he told me I had to give up my other lovers to keep him I'd still tell him thanks, nice to work with you, we're done to this day.

I know myself well enough. I know my needs well enough. You can love someone more than anything and that still won't make you compatible.

 

[Marquis]

I have returned, as promised, but I'm not sure what I care to contribute at this point.

I have done the poly thing in the past and I leave it open as a possibility in the future. In my experience, poly relationships are extremely tough to pull off and I give mad props to anyone who has been able to. I think perhaps the challenge of it is part of what draws me to it.

There's lots of aspects and styles of poly relationships I'd love to see discussed, but I just haven't been into posting too much recently. Maybe I will return again to deliver all my thoughts and experiences on the subject.

 

[esclave_PP]

Greetings all,


He has been totally honest with me about himself and thus he told me that he has other submissives in his life now and will continue to. I've known this since day one. I wasn't sure if I could handle it but I told myself I would see where things go and if things did indeed get more serious I would deal with it then. Well...I think it's time to deal with it, at least a little.

I've tried to think really hard about this. I know I am a jealous person. It's Thanking you in advance,
Melanie

Well, when I met Master, he told me about another slave he owns before he owned me. He's in an open poly relationship with her and her hubby. They met originally in the BDSM chat rooms he used to manage. They live in PA so they don't really see each other much (maybe once or twice a year for a week at a time). So it is mostly through e-mails that they communicate.

At first I was really insecure and jealous, but since Master moved in with me, that I am divorced (was open with my ex-hubby too) and Master has completley committed to our relationship I have come to accept their relationship for what it is, which isn't much really. The other slave is mostly frustrated because she doesn't really get the attention that she used to from him since Master and I have been together (about 2 years). Honestly I think it would be best if she moved on and that isn't said out of jealousy, she's just not getting her needs met. Her hubby has stepped up more as her primary Master (they share her, well kinda) so that has been good for her but she is wanting more and Master isn't able to really provide it for her.

I think it is hard to have multiples, although it does and can work for some folks. I think the Master/Mistress has to be able to balance the household well or a lot of resentment and hurt feelings ensue. If the person isn't able to handle the situation, it can create a big problem. It isn't an easy thing to get used to, so it takes a lot of talking and trust to have it work. I am decent friends with the other slave in PA, and we talk more than she talks with Master.

Such is life.

 

[serijules]

Well, when I met Master, he told me about another slave he owns before he owned me. He's in an open poly relationship with her and her hubby. They met originally in the BDSM chat rooms he used to manage. They live in PA so they don't really see each other much (maybe once or twice a year for a week at a time). So it is mostly through e-mails that they communicate.

At first I was really insecure and jealous, but since Master moved in with me, that I am divorced (was open with my ex-hubby too) and Master has completley committed to our relationship I have come to accept their relationship for what it is, which isn't much really. The other slave is mostly frustrated because she doesn't really get the attention that she used to from him since Master and I have been together (about 2 years). Honestly I think it would be best if she moved on and that isn't said out of jealousy, she's just not getting her needs met. Her hubby has stepped up more as her primary Master (they share her, well kinda) so that has been good for her but she is wanting more and Master isn't able to really provide it for her.

I think it is hard to have multiples, although it does and can work for some folks. I think the Master/Mistress has to be able to balance the household well or a lot of resentment and hurt feelings ensue. If the person isn't able to handle the situation, it can create a big problem. It isn't an easy thing to get used to, so it takes a lot of talking and trust to have it work. I am decent friends with the other slave in PA, and we talk more than she talks with Master.

Such is life.

I think the responsibility of "moving on" is shared.

I was in a situation once where my Domme ended up adding another to the relationship that was much closer physically to her. They saw each other all the time, talked on the phone all the time and she pretty much put all her focus into that relationship...yet she hung on to mine. SHE knew that our relationship needed to change because she didn't have the interest or time to put into it anymore, but I was the one that eventually ended up finally giving up on her and ending it myself. It took me a longer time to realize the best thing was to move on because she wasn't being honest with me about her changed feelings.

If your Master doesn't have the time/interest to devote to her, he has a responsibility to do something about it too. Expecting or hoping she would just "move on" and leave you both be is unfair.

 

[_prudence_]

(they share her, well kinda) so that has been good for her but she is wanting more and Master isn't able to really provide it for her.

Sorry if this seems like a hijack but this post got me thinking.....

Most of this discussion on poly relationships has involved the Dominant having multiple submissives, i would be interested to hear your thoughts (both Doms and subs) if it were the other way round, ie the submissive having more than one Master?

 

[JMohegan]

Most of this discussion on poly relationships has involved the Dominant having multiple submissives, i would be interested to hear your thoughts (both Doms and subs) if it were the other way round, ie the submissive having more than one Master?

I would not permit this for many different reasons, the easiest of which to explain are the following.

As a practical matter, I imagine that the necessity of outlining and maintaining clear boundaries between the spheres of control would involve considerable negotiation and ongoing effort on my part. Quite simply, I am not interested in taking the time to do this.

More broadly, the flavor of D/s that I embrace involves an intensely focused, extremely private, one-on-one partnership between myself and a submissive woman. There is no room for others (submissive, Dominant, or otherwise) in this equation. It is all or nothing for me.

 

[mickyp123]

Reams of advice, putting the "lifestyle"to one side though it comes down to how you feel, everyone is different, but as already mentioned talk to him regarding your feelings rather than "bottling" them up, as a negative force.


good luck

 

[rexfelis]

I would not permit this for many different reasons, the easiest of which to explain are the following.

As a practical matter, I imagine that the necessity of outlining and maintaining clear boundaries between the spheres of control would involve considerable negotiation and ongoing effort on my part. Quite simply, I am not interested in taking the time to do this.

More broadly, the flavor of D/s that I embrace involves an intensely focused, extremely private, one-on-one partnership between myself and a submissive woman. There is no room for others (submissive, Dominant, or otherwise) in this equation. It is all or nothing for me.

I submit that it is possible to have an "all or nothing" relationship with more than one person.

 

[JMohegan]

I submit that it is possible to have an "all or nothing" relationship with more than one person.

My assumption is that a D/s relationship with two submissives means dividing your personal time as follows.

1 - Time focusing on Sub X

2 - Time focusing on Sub Y

3 - Time spent as a referee/disciplinarian/facilitator of the interactions between X & Y and issues relating to the way you split your time & attention between them.

Of course that's an over-simplification, but that's the general idea. Do you agree?

When I say, "It is all or nothing for me", the idea I am trying to convey is that I am interested in 1, but not the combination of 1, 2 & 3.

Generally speaking, the Dominants I know who have long-standing poly relationships fall into one of two categories.

Either:

A - Dom/mes with strong needs of the type described by Blue Kat in post 12 and Netzach in post 33,

or

B - Dom/mes who love the drama that can sometimes be generated with poly.

I don't fit in either of these categories, so poly doesn't work for me.

 

[Marquis]

I love the drama.

 

[rexfelis]

My assumption is that a D/s relationship with two submissives means dividing your personal time as follows.

1 - Time focusing on Sub X

2 - Time focusing on Sub Y

3 - Time spent as a referee/disciplinarian/facilitator of the interactions between X & Y and issues relating to the way you split your time & attention between them.

Of course that's an over-simplification, but that's the general idea. Do you agree?

When I say, "It is all or nothing for me", the idea I am trying to convey is that I am interested in 1, but not the combination of 1, 2 & 3.

Generally speaking, the Dominants I know who have long-standing poly relationships fall into one of two categories.

Either:

A - Dom/mes with strong needs of the type described by Blue Kat in post 12 and Netzach in post 33,

or

B - Dom/mes who love the drama that can sometimes be generated with poly.

I don't fit in either of these categories, so poly doesn't work for me.

I do agree with you, I think I was looking at it from a different perspective. My point was that I believe it is possible to love more than one person "all the way". I would have to say I agree with Blue Kat.

 

[JMohegan]

My point was that I believe it is possible to love more than one person "all the way".

I suppose that's true.

But love itself is not enough to sustain a relationship. (Beatles hits and fairy tales notwithstanding.)

Hence my focus on the matching of needs.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I was looking at it from a different perspective. My point was that I believe it is possible to love more than one person "all the way". I would have to say I agree with Blue Kat.

It is, indeed, quite possible to love more than one person, "all the way."

Parents do it with children all the time. Having another child does not diminish the love a parent feels for existing children.

Our society, however, has conditioned us over centuries to this "one parter, one love" idea as some kind of "ideal". And while that will work with some, it simply will not work with others. For many people erotic/romantic relationships can certainly be the basis for a poly family, but there are other, NON-erotic/sexual or romantic relationship structures to model a poly relationship on. Having other submissives in service (think household or yard staff) to a Dominant and his/her House is not at all uncommon. In fact, service oriented poly relationships are often more successful than erotic ones because much of the emotional "competition" isn't there.

There is a lot more to a successful erotic/romantic poly relationship than just "love". Mutual respect, friendship, compatibility in things like music and entertainment, balancing time together with time alone, matching expectations, developing and working together toward common goals, all things that you need to succeed in a monogamous relationship must be done.
And not between 2 people, but between 3 or more people. This complicates the relationship dynamics exponentially.

Instead of a 2 way relationship (back and forth) between 2 partners, in a simple poly relationship you now have a 6-way relationship. You have the 2 way between A and B, a 2-way between A and C and the 2 way between B and C. Add a fourth and you jump to a 12-WAY relationship!!! Holy FRACK it gets complicated! You think one-on-one relationships require work? After a successful poly relationship, monogamous relationships seem like cake walks! *LOL* At least mine have.

Some people don't want to work that hard and that's okay. Some people do, and that's okay too!

And it seems my girl janey and I may be working on that third a lot sooner than I ever expected! *grins and waggles his eyebrows* No details for you pervs but lets just say that this past weekend was very interesting and opened doors for janey that I wasn't sure she was willing to open. NOT at my behest but because I was patient, open, caring, supportive and above all because I was totally accepting and relaxed with her curiousity and desire to explore. Jealous? *GRIN* Not me!

We shall see, my friends, we shall see... *WEG*

 

[Marquis]

It is, indeed, quite possible to love more than one person, "all the way."

Parents do it with children all the time. Having another child does not diminish the love a parent feels for existing children.

Our society, however, has conditioned us over centuries to this "one parter, one love" idea as some kind of "ideal". And while that will work with some, it simply will not work with others. For many people erotic/romantic relationships can certainly be the basis for a poly family, but there are other, NON-erotic/sexual or romantic relationship structures to model a poly relationship on. Having other submissives in service (think household or yard staff) to a Dominant and his/her House is not at all uncommon. In fact, service oriented poly relationships are often more successful than erotic ones because much of the emotional "competition" isn't there.

There is a lot more to a successful erotic/romantic poly relationship than just "love". Mutual respect, friendship, compatibility in things like music and entertainment, balancing time together with time alone, matching expectations, developing and working together toward common goals, all things that you need to succeed in a monogamous relationship must be done.
And not between 2 people, but between 3 or more people. This complicates the relationship dynamics exponentially.

Instead of a 2 way relationship (back and forth) between 2 partners, in a simple poly relationship you now have a 6-way relationship. You have the 2 way between A and B, a 2-way between A and C and the 2 way between B and C. Add a fourth and you jump to a 12-WAY relationship!!! Holy FRACK it gets complicated! You think one-on-one relationships require work? After a successful poly relationship, monogamous relationships seem like cake walks! *LOL* At least mine have.

Some people don't want to work that hard and that's okay. Some people do, and that's okay too!

And it seems my girl janey and I may be working on that third a lot sooner than I ever expected! *grins and waggles his eyebrows* No details for you pervs but lets just say that this past weekend was very interesting and opened doors for janey that I wasn't sure she was willing to open. NOT at my behest but because I was patient, open, caring, supportive and above all because I was totally accepting and relaxed with her curiousity and desire to explore. Jealous? *GRIN* Not me!

We shall see, my friends, we shall see... *WEG*

Too cool to answer my PM Geoff?

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Too cool to answer my PM Geoff?

Nope, not at all. In fact, I was replying to that while you were writing this...
*grin*

 

[Kailey_86]

I've had monogamous relationships and poly relationships and variations on the theme... *grins*

In my monogamous relationships, jealousy has been an issue on more than one occassion, and over the years I've traced the roots of jealousy back to a common source. Insecurity. People who are not absolutely secure in their relationship will tend to express that insecurity as jealousy.

It's okay to to feel jealous. It's a normal human emotion. What matters is how you deal with it.

In a poly relationship, you HAVE to communicate it. Get it out in the open, deal with it honestly. By allowing you to express the feeling, without condemnation or accusation, your partners will help you feel more secure in the relationship. Communicate, communicate, communicate!

In my personal experience, I have found that allowing my submissive partners to develop their own relationship, their own friendship, their own level of intimacy, at their own pace, has been a key to the success of the overall poly relationship. Forcing the relationship on the submissives from the Top down can have all sorts of negative results. Yes, you can make it happen short term. But if there isn't a connection between the submissives, they'll view one another as competition, and will work against one another for the long term. It _will_ get ugly...

You sound a lot like my current Dom and....yet again i agree with everything you say.
my Dom has 2 subs right now including me. i am the newbie. He has been very good about keeping all of the relationships open and equal. i get along with the other sub too which is wonderful. i was a little apprehensive about polyamory at first but i can now see how a loving family could result from it. i find the other sub's support and comfort very helpful. One sub is able to teach the others which makes things easier for the Dom in this situation.
Jealousy is always an issue though. i know that the other sub has experienced it and when my Dom mentioned a potential third sub, i did too. As mentioned by someone else, it is a feeling that comes from insecurity. i worry that i won't be as good or that He will like the new girl better. i worry that i won't get the focus that i need right now from my Dom. It is just a feeling that i will have to deal with. i have to trust that my Dom knows what He is doing...because He does. i have to know that He won't abandon me. i have to move past the hurt caused by past experiences and know that this will be different. It's a challenge but well worth it.
Melancholy, don't let these feelings break you guys apart. It sounds like you have a great relationship going. i wish you the best of luck.

 

[rexfelis]

I suppose that's true.

But love itself is not enough to sustain a relationship. (Beatles hits and fairy tales notwithstanding.)

Hence my focus on the matching of needs.

So pleased to see someone else understands that.

 

[Kailey_86]

Another thing to think about when it comes to mutiple submissives is that everyone suffers if something goes wrong. If the Dom is unhappy for whatever reason it makes all of the subs unhappy. This can make things even worse for the Dominant because now, instead of dealing with just His emotions and/or just one sub's emotions, He now has to deal with EVERYONE's emotions. This could make the group closer or it can break it apart depending on how things are dealt with. If a Dom is going to have several submissives He has to be prepared for this. Especially when it comes to the emotional aspect of it. He has to be able to deal with the issue at hand while not losing sight of everything else that is going on.

Great job Sir