Negative Feedback Trauma Center

To an anonymous feedbacker

If you're out there, if you happen to see this.
You sent me something that suggested an alternate ending. Something about she should have sniffed her hand or something. Well, I fixed that. And incorporated your suggestion. I think it is a bit better. I also changed a couple other details, and decided to mess around with the story's continuation. So an edit is pending as well as the next part (which will likely experience innumerable revisions as time goes on, and as they all seem to do, so I hope you will be as forgiving of it as you were with the other). And if you have better ideas, I'm open to hear them.

Wish I knew who you were so I could publicly credit you with the inspiration and thank you for the encouragement to continue the tinkers. But there's something to be said for the allure of the unknown, too. So, it's beautiful.

Thanks, and take care, whoever you are, out there, somewhere.
:rose:
T.
 
Reader Interruptus...

25%
ruined

06/05/08 By: Anonymous
it started good but you totally ruined it when you killed off his sister and parents i stopped reading it just isn't worth continuing anything beyond that point is no longer incest and can't be justified you should have put it in a different catagory

This comment was from a recent post, DANA & DEANNA: OUR STORY. The protagonist lived and went on with another incestuous relationship that our TROLL failed to discover when he quit reading. What category? Anything other than incest can't be justified?

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=366296
 
25%
ruined

06/05/08 By: Anonymous
it started good but you totally ruined it when you killed off his sister and parents i stopped reading it just isn't worth continuing anything beyond that point is no longer incest and can't be justified you should have put it in a different catagory

This comment was from a recent post, DANA & DEANNA: OUR STORY. The protagonist lived and went on with another incestuous relationship that our TROLL failed to discover when he quit reading. What category? Anything other than incest can't be justified?

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=366296

A related topic was on my mind the other day. Meaning, the questionable reliability of a criticism if it is obvious the critic did not read the whole thing.

Thanks for bringing this to the TC.

I checked it out. I'll admit I didn't get through all of it, but what I saw was quite well done. I think the fact that you killed off a character and the killing disturbed someone enough, should tell you that you succeeded in making someone care about that character. No small feat.

More later.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Caprine

I went to do a few other things (non-erotic and non-fictional) and two elements from what I read of your work resurfaced in my mind: 1) when the guy goes into the closet, and puts his hand in the girl's pants, and she's wearing no panties. 2) when some of the others go into then come out of the closet, but what may or may not have happened is left to the reader's imagination.

Two very nicely done contrasts in explicitness and suggestion. This interests me and it is a lesson I will hopefully learn from, because I've lately been interested in focusing more on suggestion than the explicit details. The unseen and unsaid seem to create the real erotic tension.

Just wanted to mention that. Thank you.
 
25%
ruined

06/05/08 By: Anonymous
it started good but you totally ruined it when you killed off his sister and parents i stopped reading it just isn't worth continuing anything beyond that point is no longer incest and can't be justified you should have put it in a different catagory

This comment was from a recent post, DANA & DEANNA: OUR STORY. The protagonist lived and went on with another incestuous relationship that our TROLL failed to discover when he quit reading. What category? Anything other than incest can't be justified?

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=366296


OOO, that's not a troll. Impatient, perhaps, but when a reader stops reading, it's only partially their fault--and it's wholly their privilege. An expert story arc will use devises to pull readers across such hard internal breaks in the story. This reader has honestly read into the story and has given you a content-based reason why she/he broke away. Some mix of bad reading and inadequate writing--and maybe mostly bad reading. But a good faith attempt at it. This isn't at all what trolls do. Trolls dump with little or no relationship to the writing or whether the story is accomplishing what it set out to do on it's own merits. Not everyone who doesn't lavish praise is a troll.
 
Well, Lady Sheila,

Some of these fellas kinda already touched on some of the stuff I learned from my own personal reading spree - again, when I read not as a judge or critic but for sheer enjoyment, and which stories, that though I enjoyed, I forgot to vote/comment.

I'll just jump to the happy ending. Okay?

So I know of at least one guy out here in the big wild wide world, who read several random stories here and enjoyed, but did not vote or comment. Am I the only one who did such a thing? I have a hard time believing that. I don't think there's any real way to know how or who any given person or persons at any given time or times will come away from an experience with any given work or works - unless they are familiar with the name and the style and the taste. Some seem to do well with this, so they don't really have the question mark in that part of their minds. But for some of us who seem to occupy the fringes, sit over in the corners, scribbling our rambles in beat up notebooks, drinking too much coffee, smoking too many cigarette, and are easily pulled off-track, yeah, we do wonder. Sometimes. I think it comes and goes in cycles and streaks.

So the other day I came to the tentative conclusion that, if say, a herd of potential readers happens to click on one of my rambles (I say me here, but you might find it applicable, in which case, make my me your me; I'm just using my me for convenience - and to avoid confusion); say, a batch of a hundred comes to the story. I'm just going to assume that at least eighty - conservatively speaking - will find some reason to abandon their journey by the end of the first paragraph. Reason? Myriad. Valid reasons, taste reasons, mood reasons, prose reasons. structure reasons, subject reasons, voice reasons, etc. that's cool. Maybe if the same ones come around several times but just don't care for what they come to they'll know not to come any more. Cool. Some people like pepsi, some don't. Some like nutty candies, some prefer chewy candies.

So out of those who continue past the first paragraph, another chunk will eject themselves somewhere before the end. Now there's not too many coming down the stretch. Out of those who reach the finish, I'm just gonna assume that most will go, 'christ that was a waste of time! That sucked!' Cool. Can't please everyone. But - maybe, out of the hundred that began the journey, three or four get to the end, and they're like, "hm, that was interesting. Hm. Kinda different, but, kinda cool, too." Or, who knows why they didn't come out with the negative experience that the other 97 did. Out of those three, maybe two (wait - I feel like breaking a rule - out of those 3, maybe 2 (with 50DD tits, one 5' 6" and the other 5' 3.5"))... maybe 2 will go on with their lives, or to another story, and maybe do like I did and they'll think later, "ah man! I should've voted or commented or sent a note of thanks. Hm, what was the writer's name? Oh well, some other time."

But - maybe. Maybe maybe maybe, one (oops, 1) 1 out of the hundred who began the word journey, will actually take the time to let me or you know that something about what you wrote made them happy, got 'em stiff, gave 'em a thrill, made 'em snicker or outright guffaw. Who knows. Who knows, maybe a prose style that turned many away was meant to turn those many away so there might be a more intimate connection with that one who was in a lamentation that they don't see much of that prose style, because of who knows why.

So it is true: no reader is under any obligation to send any writer one single adjective about whether their stuff worked or didn't or why or why not. I know this. So, when I get that 1 (a person, not a number) I do appreciate it. And I figure, if there's 1, maybe there's 2. Or even 3. Assume no more than 4.

And I definitely understand why, even if they liked what they experienced, I (or you) may never know about it. And I really need to break the bad habit of removing stories. Should leave them up. Just because - Erotica 6 - Hi, I'm Hmmm Bodett. We'll leave the light on for ya. grab yer tissue and yer... you know.

Well, that's probably enough for now. Hm?
 
Point being:
Though times come that make it easy to slip into hyper-self-criticism and to feel like a failure, that's really almost an insult to those precious intimates who took the time to do what many do not. All that taken into consideration caused a sort of conversion. One can only try their best with what they have to work with and try again next time. And be grateful for the platform to present their humble wares, over here on the outskirts.

See? Ain't that happy? :heart:
 
Well Sheila, I just remembered something that happened some years ago. Don't know how or whether it applies to anything we've discussed here, but I'm in a mood. A good mood. A reflective mood. A small-smiled mood.

Anyway - in a city I once lived, I had a friend/mentor who was one of the few who really expressed interest in some of my stuff. He was/is a photographer and he had a gift for portraying the loveliness, the subtle eroticism, of flowers. I was also at the time, interested in photography, so I took a few notes in that regard.

Anyway - some bar was going to let him put his work on their walls - a show - I wasn't there for this, so I heard of it secondhand. He went there on a prior night, with cards announcing his upcoming show. On the card he'd printed one of his photos - a strategically posed magnolia blossom. So he set out the cards in a stack at the corner of the bar. Went and had a beer. There was a guy sitting in the seat near the stack of cards. He kinda glanced over at them, like, "hm, what's this." Picked one up, looked at it, curiosity sated, he put it back, went back to his beer. Couple seconds later, he takes the card again, looks at it again, a little longer, a little closer. Puts it back. Goes back to his beer. Sets his beer down and grabs the card one more time, looking, frowning. Then he said something like, "this picture's pissing me off!"

That episode - though I wasn't there - stayed with me. In a good way. It makes me smile.

Okay - I've racked up the posts today - time to chill.

Everybody have a great world. :heart:
 
As a fellow artist, I totally understand.

I was "recognized" for the first time last week as an artist. Some woman who must have been at one of my shows walked up to me and stopped right in front of me.
"Aren't you Sheila? When is your next show? Don't tell me I just missed one," she said.
It made me smile. My paintings are not realism. They are representational and impressionistic. Seems like people either love them or hate them.

-Sheila
 
As a fellow artist, I totally understand.

I was "recognized" for the first time last week as an artist. Some woman who must have been at one of my shows walked up to me and stopped right in front of me.
"Aren't you Sheila? When is your next show? Don't tell me I just missed one," she said.
It made me smile. My paintings are not realism. They are representational and impressionistic. Seems like people either love them or hate them.

-Sheila

m'kay, you wrung one more post outta me.

That's great! And - if one recognized you and came to you - there must be a few others. Hm?

Leaving a good feeling or thought in someone - that's precious. You can't put a number on that.

A while back I went ahead got a my space thing - and hooked up again with some buds I haven't seen in years. A couple of them quoted to me a line from one or two of my songs. I was like, "wow, I can't believe anybody remembered!" And it's funny, because something like that often happens when I've gotten down about what I'm doing here. Things seem to balance out, if you're just a little patient. You never know. You just never know.

So keep it up. I'm sure you will.

Now really - this is today's final post. Really. Please. :heart:
 
Interesting...

A related topic was on my mind the other day. Meaning, the questionable reliability of a criticism if it is obvious the critic did not read the whole thing.

Thanks for bringing this to the TC.

I checked it out. I'll admit I didn't get through all of it, but what I saw was quite well done. I think the fact that you killed off a character and the killing disturbed someone enough, should tell you that you succeeded in making someone care about that character. No small feat.

More later.

An interesting point that I hadn't considered. I've some rethinking to do about what I thought was a troll. Strong feelings for one of my characters?? Hmmm. Thanks.
 
Ahhhh...

I went to do a few other things (non-erotic and non-fictional) and two elements from what I read of your work resurfaced in my mind: 1) when the guy goes into the closet, and puts his hand in the girl's pants, and she's wearing no panties. 2) when some of the others go into then come out of the closet, but what may or may not have happened is left to the reader's imagination.

Two very nicely done contrasts in explicitness and suggestion. This interests me and it is a lesson I will hopefully learn from, because I've lately been interested in focusing more on suggestion than the explicit details. The unseen and unsaid seem to create the real erotic tension.

Just wanted to mention that. Thank you.

to tell all, or to suggest, that is the question. I've done both, separately and together, and have been criticized for both. To paraphrase, you can please some of the people some of the time, but never all of the people any of the time. Personally, I prefer to suggest, but most of my target audience likes all the gory details, so I wander back and forth. Thanks for you perceptive comments.
 
Yes...

OOO, that's not a troll. Impatient, perhaps, but when a reader stops reading, it's only partially their fault--and it's wholly their privilege. An expert story arc will use devises to pull readers across such hard internal breaks in the story. This reader has honestly read into the story and has given you a content-based reason why she/he broke away. Some mix of bad reading and inadequate writing--and maybe mostly bad reading. But a good faith attempt at it. This isn't at all what trolls do. Trolls dump with little or no relationship to the writing or whether the story is accomplishing what it set out to do on it's own merits. Not everyone who doesn't lavish praise is a troll.

I stand corrected on my TROLL label for this criticism. Thanks for jogging my understanding here. As with the comment from hmmmm, I need to re-evaluate. Thanks.
 
The conversion appears to be holding on this time. A firmer foundation? Or we're finally getting some summery skies.
(insert imaginary musing chin-scratcher emoticon here).
 
One time not too long ago I received an anonymous email telling me I was "going to burn in Hell" because "God doesn't appreciate" same-sex erotic stories.

It's somewhat disheartening to log in and realize that, while you were sleeping, a few (or many) people 1-starred your story, especially if you worked really hard on it.

You go into the whole "different stages of author coping" thing, where stage 1 is anger (they're just jealous!) to stage 2, paranoia (is there a conspiracy against me?), to stage 3, fear (maybe it does suck) to stage 4, bitterness (it's politics, I tell you) to stage 5, acceptance (at least I turned myself on while writing it).

I've found it a lot easier to keep on writing if I skip stages 1 through 4.
 
One time not too long ago I received an anonymous email telling me I was "going to burn in Hell" because "God doesn't appreciate" same-sex erotic stories.

It's somewhat disheartening to log in and realize that, while you were sleeping, a few (or many) people 1-starred your story, especially if you worked really hard on it.

You go into the whole "different stages of author coping" thing, where stage 1 is anger (they're just jealous!) to stage 2, paranoia (is there a conspiracy against me?), to stage 3, fear (maybe it does suck) to stage 4, bitterness (it's politics, I tell you) to stage 5, acceptance (at least I turned myself on while writing it).

I've found it a lot easier to keep on writing if I skip stages 1 through 4.

The first question I'd think to ask is how they knew they just read a same-sex erotic story, and if they read the whole thing. If they did indeed read the whole thing, you can take comfort in the fact that you didn't have overwritten phrases or sentences that took them out of the story.

Or, even better, if it was written so that you had them hooked and they tried to stop reading it but couldn't. I would love to achieve that someday.

Maybe they were on a mission?
 
Speaking of which

A small chunk of time was gouged out the other day when I wondered about this:

What if there was no way for a writer to know how well or how bad their work was received? Not even an option of turning off any votes or comments. Just you, your imagination, the different lights you have to work with, and a way to put up your results. Think of how free it would be. And think of how much that would remove the energy-sucking activity that takes up too much space in the mind, worrying way too much about whether we receive validation or proscription.
 
But if we have no way of finding out if anybody, even one person, likes to read it. Why put all the work into making it readable.

I mean, I would love to write my stories down, to read them again in 10 years when I can't remember them well anymore. But say the bigger stories (like i got one up at 127 thousand words at the moment) that book is prolly gonna take me at least a further half year to finish, and polish and repolish and...

If the only purpose of writing the story down, was that I myself could read it again in 10, 20, and (if I start excercizing and quit smoking) 30 years, would I really be able to push myself into investing the thousands of work hours it requires?

I know for some people their stories don't exist until they put them on paper, so for those I get why writing for themselves only is very, very important. Heck if my stories didn't exist until I wrote them I'd never leave my keyboard!!!

But for me, my stories exist with or without writing them. They do evolve on the paper, change somewhat, develop kind of different, explode between my hands. HOWEVER they DO already exist before I write.

So for me, if not a single person, other than me, liked any of what I write.

Would it really be worth the trouble?

I don't even write a diary...


I'd still wish lit recorded all five star votes so we, the authors, could see them ourselves on our view submissions list. Just so we could sit and say - well maybe I got a three star average because so and so many hates my story (or me), BUT at least that many people (the five star count) liked the story!

I still haven't adopted any trolls it seems, but I'm expecting it will happen one day. I'm not very good at being popular ;)

I'm more the hide or be shunned type.

And when will I learn not to post on forums at nights!!! I go all weird and philosophical and way too personal for a public forum.
 
Well, I'm not so sure what I'd do, either. Which to me just means I wish I could say I didn't care, and wish it was true. But it isn't true, because I do care. I just wonder if it would be more carefree if not.

Like putting poems in bottles and sending them across the ocean. Or shooting them into outer space.

Dear whoever you are,

this was just something I scribbled out in 2008. Maybe it'll speak to you. Hope the rhymes aren't too forced.

Love, anonymous


Cool huh?

a little romantic? a touch of mystery?
 
It does sting

I was looking for a place like this too. I just finished reading a comment and the only thing that ran threw my mind was "Why would someone take the time to do that?" lol. It spoke of how I need to stop using ebonics but that was part of the story. In high school, at least mine, people did talk like that. Either way that person was an asshole. I guess I'm just venting now.
 
I was looking for a place like this too. I just finished reading a comment and the only thing that ran threw my mind was "Why would someone take the time to do that?" lol. It spoke of how I need to stop using ebonics but that was part of the story. In high school, at least mine, people did talk like that. Either way that person was an asshole. I guess I'm just venting now.

vent away...

Sometimes readers don't recognize the authority of artistic license.
 
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