Nine Levels Of Submission

[SweetDommes]

Don;t worry, I love being intimidated...
Actually I agree the scale is quite useful...

LOL, really? that's useful info as well ...

And it is, when used properly, but many people either don't have the intuition to use it right, or don't give others the credit with the intelligence to use it properly, and it doesn't help anyone.

- Miss Karen

 

[SweetDommes]

This is just randomness here but ... Pure - I have noticed that you have posted a couple of times, for various reasons, but you haven't posted the level you are at/wish to be ... just wondering what you are in/are looking for since you seem to have an interest in the topic.

 

[Netzach]

I've never been a fan of this scale for one simple reason. It tends to equate commitment TO the relationship with depth of submission.

I personally would like a committed partner to passionately and seriously immerse with, but not attempt to keep the slave dynamic at the forefront all the time or even most of the time. I don't see that on the menu.

 

[P. B. Walker]

And with the right bending of definitions (i.e. what does your Woman/Women define a slave as), would you be perhaps willing to move beyond 5?

Mmm... I could see a 6 coming out of me for a few days with the right person(s). But I think it would be pretty rare.

Course, there are those rare times when I want a 6 of my own.

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[Pure]

Sweetdommes said,

This is just randomness here but ... Pure - I have noticed that you have posted a couple of times, for various reasons, but you haven't posted the level you are at/wish to be ... just wondering what you are in/are looking for since you seem to have an interest in the topic.

Because only parttime experiments have been possible, I'd say 4 or 5.

I think there are some problems in the conception of the scale, esp. in the 7-9 range, though I can't quite pin them down; Netzach has one good suggestion of the issue. The situation she describes is hard to place.

The issue of parttime seem too closely tied with degree of submission. For instance, I can imagine being totally at someone's mercy for an hour; from time to time, as paths cross.
Where does that fit?

One key issue is that the scale makes the degree of submission a choice of the alleged sub. The alleged sub's view of things is given a defining role. For instance at (7.), we see for the first time, 'real slave,' and the description regards oneself as the dominant's property at all times.

But if we were to look at real slavery--for guidance, not exact copy/replicaton-- that's ass backwards: The master/mistress views the slave as property and acts accordingly. It does not matter if the slave believes (falsely) otherwise, or even believes s/he (the slave) is dictator of the universe and owns all living beings as property.

The is a 'rape fantasy' thread going, which deals with what I call actual submission, which is necessarily imposed on the submitter, not chosen by him/her.

J.

 

[Netzach]

For me, M/s, Mistress/slave, as I see it, is almost antithetical to a fulltime relationship. Fulltime slave owners would put slaves in a separate physical space, usually, then took them out, used them, and didn't really concern themselves much with what they did in the interim as long as they didn't run away or plan a revolt. (I'm thinking of several historical western slavery models, from Roman to American) When I live with someone it becomes too intimate, too comfy, too familiar altogether for that kind of ownership/use, which, for me, is antithetical to romance. So seeing a relationship in an ongoing and romantic light dliutes the purity of Master/Mistress/ slave. It would be like getting all misty eyed and lovey about my stove or sofa.

So this is not my personal preferred relationship style, but I'm sure for others it's ideal.

 

[lil ozzie sub]

I thought that I was only a 3-4, maybe a 5, but my Domme tells me I'm a 7.

What a way to start my posting in this forum!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Having seen the scale before, I still see it as being very subjective to the author's perceptions of what she sees as admirable and right in that it does present her judgemental views most noticeably in what she perceives is real and what is fantasy. In keeping with playing the game though, I would say I am in the 9 bracket, the differences being my life is a reality not fantasy, and consent is not through brainwashing, religious cult, or social or economical pressures, but informed choice and hence is fully consensual.

While I have no limits except those set by Master, I trust him to make the decision which is best for us at the relevant time, and though I often do not wish to do as ordered, I do not then beg off and claim the command is unfair or not in the expectations I held as Ms Vera infers is the reality. It also does not mean I cannot inform Master if I believe, or have information, which may show the desired activity is harmful or illegal, in fact he expects me to as like most of us know, Dominants are human also and cannot be expected to know everything. Once again though, it is then his decision to make whether we continue or not...if he chooses to disregard the information, I see it as my duty to obey. It works for us and is what I went in search for, but I acknowledge it does not work for all....that does not mean it is fantasy.

Catalina

 

[SweetDommes]

Any scale of this sort will be subject to, not only the values and beliefs of the author, but to those of the people who are reading and interpretting it. I don't think that this scale is the only way to interpret D/s and BDSM relationships, but it is one method. There are many methods to look at the same thing, and each person could use the same method and still come up with something totally different (just look at lil ozzie). And there is nothing wrong with being in multiple places on the scale at the same time. Ghosstie & I were talking about this last night ... with Holly, I am a rather interesting combination of 3, 4, and 5, but with our boys, we want a 7 or 8. All relationships between me and whoever (Holly or boys, doesn't matter) are to be full-time, committed relationships, even if we can't always be together (*pouts as she misses her boy*), so I don't see it as differing levels of committment being the only factor involved in deciding which level you are at/want to be at.

 

[ghosst_K&H]

I've never been a fan of this scale for one simple reason. It tends to equate commitment TO the relationship with depth of submission.

I personally would like a committed partner to passionately and seriously immerse with, but not attempt to keep the slave dynamic at the forefront all the time or even most of the time. I don't see that on the menu.

A very valid point, and i agree to an extent....

but, in the author's defense, this is just a guide to one aspect of a BSDM D/s relationship. I don't see where it says all relationships have to fit into specific numeric catagories, or that you MUST keep the Master/slave dynamic at all.

There are many many types of BSDM relationships, and not all consist of D/s, or any kind of sevitude. One of the greatest things about this lifestyle, is the freedom to make your own rules, set your own limits, and play the way you want to play.

i simply posted this to try to stimulate conversation, and to get feedback on how others view their BSDM relationships

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

This is just us, but we have never really had a problem with a boy who wanted a pet of his own, as long as we could be sure that he remembered who he was in charge of and who was in charge of him...

To me, at least, it's kind of the ultimate of domination ... I have a Dominant as a submissive ... my own little conceit, I guess.

-Miss Karen

Actually, a certain someone said basically the same thing to me last night after I directed their attention to this thread..mayhap i will reach that plateau sooner than i had thought??

pet

 

[SweetDommes]

Actually, a certain someone said basically the same thing to me last night after I directed their attention to this thread..mayhap i will reach that plateau sooner than i had thought??

pet

Well, if that is what you want, then go for it ... I'm sure that it will be fun for all involved.

Our boy was teasing me about that post, actually ... too bad he doesn't realize the screening that we will put any of HIS potential pets through ... at least 100 times worse than what we put our potentials through (have to make sure that his pet is worthy of him).

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Well, if that is what you want, then go for it ... I'm sure that it will be fun for all involved.

Our boy was teasing me about that post, actually ... too bad he doesn't realize the screening that we will put any of HIS potential pets through ... at least 100 times worse than what we put our potentials through (have to make sure that his pet is worthy of him).

I have no doubts whatsoever that i will eventually have to deal with the same thing. I think that best part of being a switch is learning to enjoy both aspects of myself. It's easier when it's simply being bi-sexual or being bi-racial (both of which, I am) Tis a touch more difficult having the need to own and BE owned.

(Geez 100 times WORSE?!? I can not even imagine what my Owner would do to test my girl and boy!!! )

 

[SweetDommes]

(Geez 100 times WORSE?!? I can not even imagine what my Owner would do to test my girl and boy!!! )

LOL that's why I don't think it will ever happen ... at least not any time in the forseeable future ... but it is a possiblity.

-Miss Karen
(and yes, I will eventually remember to sign all of my posts in our joint account so that you know who is 'talking')

 

[deepstare]

I don't know if someone mentioned this but aren't there 9 circles of Dante's Inferno? It'd be an interesting parallel.

 

[Pure]

Hi to SweetDommes, ghosst, and others.

I had a go at writing my own 'take' on this nine degrees thing, but decided not to post it here and distract from the original material of this thread.

You are all welcome to see the posting in the "Topopolis" thread,
p. 59, and respond to it there or here as you may wish.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=6623571#post6623571

J.

 

[astralkiss]

I would say I am in between a four and a five. Although I always see possibility to move up the scale.

 

[s'lara]

i don't fit on this scale, but find it limiting.

The descriptions tend to compartmentalize subs to a degree and as we all know, the differences between us (and our situations) vary quite a bit. Still, as with most things, some people tend to find comfort in fitting into a pre-designated category. If there is a fit for some, that's great. i just know there is quite a bit of grey between each "level" that isn't reflected on this particular list.

Pure's list seems to capture a bit more although its clinical descriptions tend to make the parties seem to more involved settlement negotiations than BDSM activities. No offense P, i thought it very precise.

Good discussion topic ghost. Thanks.

lara

 

[landcruisergal]

I dont like putting myself in a box. Like can I use it in my resume?36/24/36. 5'3" tall,IQ 125-30, 5.5 on the D.V. submissive scale. yuk.

 

[bunny bondage]

i don't think it's intended to be interpreted quite so literally and word-for-word. of course there is no way to catagorize all people in any genre, but this is a stepping stone toward finding a way to define yourself. when able to understand what it is that we are and need it is then possible to communicate this to others more articulately.