Not Dom, not sub...

[Let_it_come]

Can't disagree here, Cat.

My data is fine it was collected pretty much before I started posting here. I've a new study & a new University come October anyway.

My childish & unprofessional attitude is my USP - it is what will give me a future as a consultant in my field. I want to be working for myself in the studies I work on, not just as a team member. As a consultant I can do this, plus the money improves. Oddly my LIC posts have already put me in touch with new contacts working in my field. An unexpected bonus.

My LIC threads are all Kosher. Just what I think. Agree, disagree they are all just to add to the mix.


Jen.

Edit: I put UPS instead of USP. Duh!

 

[Let_it_come]

Dragging this thread back to sex and away from my career plans:

I can see that D/s & S/M relationships are very similar.

What I can't quite understand (purely from MY take on Sadism) is quite how Sadistic a Sadist really is in an S/M relationship. Obviously there are degrees of Sadism. But the thought of giving pleasure while being cruel spoils it for me (& maybe for me only).
D/s makes sense to me from both angles. Masochists I can understand. But a caring sharing Sadist just doesn't sound very Sadistic to me. In my book Sadists shouldn't be nice guys!
The S/M Sadist sounds somehow compromised to my way at looking at Sadism.
Any value in that POV?

Jenny

 

[Ebonyfire]

Dragging this thread back to sex and away from my career plans:

I can see that D/s & S/M relationships are very similar.

What I can't quite understand (purely from MY take on Sadism) is quite how Sadistic a Sadist really is in an S/M relationship. Obviously there are degrees of Sadism. But the thought of giving pleasure while being cruel spoils it for me (& maybe for me only).
D/s makes sense to me from both angles. Masochists I can understand. But a caring sharing Sadist just doesn't sound very Sadistic to me. In my book Sadists shouldn't be nice guys!
The S/M Sadist sounds somehow compromised to my way at looking at Sadism.
Any value in that POV?

Jenny

Think of it this way. The price of being allowed to walk free in society is at least appearing to be caring and sharing.

Question: What do you call a Sadist who does not care about others?
Answer: A sociopath.

Eb

 

[Let_it_come]

Think of it this way. The price of being allowed to walk free in society is at least appearing to be caring and sharing.

Question: What do you call a Sadist who does not care about others?
Answer: A sociopath.

Eb

That's very true.
I should have said again that I'm talking about Sexual Sadism only here.
In RL I love children & animals, I'm not a monster 24/7.
But in the bedroom I do like my Sadism to be sadistic.
It is a difficult thing to own up to, but my take on Sadism is a very self-centred one.
When I enjoy the sadism of others it is their self-centred behaviour I am enjoying too.
I like to fuck like a sociopath and be fucked by someone behaving like a sociopath. I personally find that hot. Luckily by b/f does too.
I'm not looking for converts or agreement here, just talking about something not much talked about on Lit.
You never know some lurker could see this and come on to say that they too have this niche sexuality also & we could all learn how they deal with it. Do they make 'compromises' to express themselves in bed or do they just play with their own kind and focus on their pleasure & other's pain?
Could be interesting? Might add to the mix?

 

[Ebonyfire]

That's very true.
I should have said again that I'm talking about Sexual Sadism only here.

And what I said is valid for that. Each of the last three sociopaths who were also serial killers were in fact labeled sexual sadists.

My comment is very valid. And I doubt if some of their wives and families thought they were sociopathic 24/7 either.

Eb

 

[catalina_francisco]

Dragging this thread back to sex and away from my career plans:

I can see that D/s & S/M relationships are very similar.

What I can't quite understand (purely from MY take on Sadism) is quite how Sadistic a Sadist really is in an S/M relationship. Obviously there are degrees of Sadism. But the thought of giving pleasure while being cruel spoils it for me (& maybe for me only).
D/s makes sense to me from both angles. Masochists I can understand. But a caring sharing Sadist just doesn't sound very Sadistic to me. In my book Sadists shouldn't be nice guys!
The S/M Sadist sounds somehow compromised to my way at looking at Sadism.
Any value in that POV?

Jenny

Your POV is just as I and others have pointed out, based on clinical sadism (not new, been around for decades) and as Eb so eloquently pointed out, sociopathic beings. I recall your admitting way back when that though you prattle on about how delicious you think it would be to experience x, y, z, you were sure you actually would not enjoy or want it for real and were referring to fantasy and basically just babbling for the sake of it.

You also are locked into a very one dimensional picture which is another sign you actually have not experienced these things you hint at time to time being part of your sexual life. You seem to have this view a sadist as most here relate to operates solely from a point of pleasing their partner and not moving beyond what is pleasure for that partner...and you say you understand a masochist?!!...this shows you do not understand all masochists or how SM is managed in many SM relationships as a masochist is not usually someone who is looking for pleasure in the conventional sense as in being pleasant in the vanilla world's understanding. For a masochist it is often the fact that it is not pleasureable or enjoyable which eventually brings pleasure, though not always in the way you yourself understand pleasure...IOW, you are looing at it from your own perspective and understanding only, and not able to see another's POV or experience for the reality it presents.

I actually have been at the hands of a clinical sadist, and yes, he was very upset when I successfully faked loving everything he was doing, enough so that he actually went instantly limp, stopped what he was doing and threatening to do, and left in a rage.

As to your study being legit, good luck...it usually helps to have an unbiased input, method and theory; to remain open and attempt to understand from another's POV; and that you have some accurate presentation of your findings which from your posts does't seem to be so. We actually have had a few people approach the forum for participation in research projects, and due to their upfront openness and honesty, their informing of and use of manners, and sheer professionalism, they had a very positive response with many willing to participate and offer any help necessary. Approach can make so much difference in outcome and is how I guess you have researchers who make their mark and are respected, and others who are viewed as biased and unreliable and so do not go on to make much of a significant mark at all, at least not in a positive and/or professional sense.

Catalina

 

[mickyp123]

That's very true.
I should have said again that I'm talking about Sexual Sadism only here.
In RL I love children & animals, I'm not a monster 24/7.
But in the bedroom I do like my Sadism to be sadistic.
It is a difficult thing to own up to, but my take on Sadism is a very self-centred one.
When I enjoy the sadism of others it is their self-centred behaviour I am enjoying too.
I like to fuck like a sociopath and be fucked by someone behaving like a sociopath. I personally find that hot. Luckily by b/f does too.
I'm not looking for converts or agreement here, just talking about something not much talked about on Lit.
You never know some lurker could see this and come on to say that they too have this niche sexuality also & we could all learn how they deal with it. Do they make 'compromises' to express themselves in bed or do they just play with their own kind and focus on their pleasure & other's pain?
Could be interesting? Might add to the mix?

I think you will alway's get people trying to fool you but any attempt would be short lived and futile. its pointless trying to be something you are not, when you have found a "like" partner then is the time to push the envelope and explore, cultivating the relationship going that one step further.

As for sadism for its own sake i don't know how that works if you only care about your own pleasure, unless you find someone that is happy to endure what takes your fancy, then if they do that are they not gaining pleasure,? and if so how does that tie in with your own sadistic wants, would you prefer to subject them to things that they don't like? i hope this does not read like scrambled eggs lol

 

[Let_it_come]

And what I said is valid for that. Each of the last three sociopaths who were also serial killers were in fact labeled sexual sadists.

My comment is very valid. And I doubt if some of their wives and families thought they were sociopathic 24/7 either.

Eb

Hmmmmm - I do hear you & thank you for that.
Honest answer - yes, I can see the link.
Is it always the case? I don't know.
Thought provoking - Thanks!

 

[Let_it_come]

I think you will alway's get people trying to fool you but any attempt would be short lived and futile. its pointless trying to be something you are not, when you have found a "like" partner then is the time to push the envelope and explore, cultivating the relationship going that one step further.

As for sadism for its own sake i don't know how that works if you only care about your own pleasure, unless you find someone that is happy to endure what takes your fancy, then if they do that are they not gaining pleasure,? and if so how does that tie in with your own sadistic wants, would you prefer to subject them to things that they don't like? i hope this does not read like scrambled eggs lol

Not scrambled eggs at all.

Two Sadists together can work, oddly. The focus is on personal pleasure from the other's pain. Both sharing another 3rd party's pain together would be even better. I have no desire to please my b/f with my pain I just want to enjoy his reactions to doing it.
Happy to have it called pathological, I really don't mind. But it does exists out there. But maybe not much!

 

[Let_it_come]

Your POV is just as I and others have pointed out, based on clinical sadism (not new, been around for decades) and as Eb so eloquently pointed out, sociopathic beings. I recall your admitting way back when that though you prattle on about how delicious you think it would be to experience x, y, z, you were sure you actually would not enjoy or want it for real and were referring to fantasy and basically just babbling for the sake of it.

You also are locked into a very one dimensional picture which is another sign you actually have not experienced these things you hint at time to time being part of your sexual life. You seem to have this view a sadist as most here relate to operates solely from a point of pleasing their partner and not moving beyond what is pleasure for that partner...and you say you understand a masochist?!!...this shows you do not understand all masochists or how SM is managed in many SM relationships as a masochist is not usually someone who is looking for pleasure in the conventional sense as in being pleasant in the vanilla world's understanding. For a masochist it is often the fact that it is not pleasureable or enjoyable which eventually brings pleasure, though not always in the way you yourself understand pleasure...IOW, you are looing at it from your own perspective and understanding only, and not able to see another's POV or experience for the reality it presents.

I actually have been at the hands of a clinical sadist, and yes, he was very upset when I successfully faked loving everything he was doing, enough so that he actually went instantly limp, stopped what he was doing and threatening to do, and left in a rage.

As to your study being legit, good luck...it usually helps to have an unbiased input, method and theory; to remain open and attempt to understand from another's POV; and that you have some accurate presentation of your findings which from your posts does't seem to be so. We actually have had a few people approach the forum for participation in research projects, and due to their upfront openness and honesty, their informing of and use of manners, and sheer professionalism, they had a very positive response with many willing to participate and offer any help necessary. Approach can make so much difference in outcome and is how I guess you have researchers who make their mark and are respected, and others who are viewed as biased and unreliable and so do not go on to make much of a significant mark at all, at least not in a positive and/or professional sense.

Catalina

THANKS for that -

I'll try to be quick:

1) Yes, lots of fantasies. Most are criminal offences. I'd love to find like-minded souls tho'. In the meantime I do all I can & stay legal.

2) I can totally understand your clinical sadist THAT is where I am coming from. I'm really not interested in all this relationship stuff personally. I want to fuck. Not much more from me than that. I can do relationship add-ons in other areas. But in bed I want it the way I want it.

3) Academic studies are rubbish. They are just scalps on a CV leading to better money in Market Research/Industry in general. The study I helped on was only on posting behaviour & group dynamics based on the 3 months before I signed up to Lit. Nothing to do with sexuality or anything other than the mechanics of the net. It was as dry as that. A researcher is as good as their data. Some other fool can interperate the stuff.

Jenny

 

[mickyp123]

Not scrambled eggs at all.

Two Sadists together can work, oddly. The focus is on personal pleasure from the other's pain. Both sharing another 3rd party's pain together would be even better. I have no desire to please my b/f with my pain I just want to enjoy his reactions to doing it.
Happy to have it called pathological, I really don't mind. But it does exists out there. But maybe not much!

Years ago i came across one married couple she would get off stubbing her cigerette on his erect cock, and his balls, still makes me wince, i thought up one idea for her that was to get 5 or 6 fishing maggots, (sterile) and put them in a tube over her clit, all they would do is wriggle round in circles, she said she would try it but i lost contact, seemed a fun idea though

 

[Let_it_come]

Years ago i came across one married couple she would get off stubbing her cigerette on his erect cock, and his balls, still makes me wince, i thought up one idea for her that was to get 5 or 6 fishing maggots, (sterile) and put them in a tube over her clit, all they would do is wriggle round in circles, she said she would try it but i lost contact, seemed a fun idea though

They never lived in Watford did they?

 

[catalina_francisco]

3) Academic studies are rubbish. They are just scalps on a CV leading to better money in Market Research/Industry in general. The study I helped on was only on posting behaviour & group dynamics based on the 3 months before I signed up to Lit. Nothing to do with sexuality or anything other than the mechanics of the net. It was as dry as that. A researcher is as good as their data. Some other fool can interperate the stuff.

Jenny

Ah, so would it be more correct to say you are actually just one of the plebs sent out with the questions to ask, observations to make as specified, more so than an actual researcher who designs, organises, and arranges the project and compiles the collected information?

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Not scrambled eggs at all.

Two Sadists together can work, oddly. The focus is on personal pleasure from the other's pain. Both sharing another 3rd party's pain together would be even better. I have no desire to please my b/f with my pain I just want to enjoy his reactions to doing it.
Happy to have it called pathological, I really don't mind. But it does exists out there. But maybe not much!

This is not odd...I have played in such scenes with F where we give sadistic delights to a third person...problem here is proposing 2 sadists together without a third or more person to inflict the pain etc., on doesn't work for me anymore than the thought of 2 masochists without a sadist, or 2 subs without a Dom/me or 2 Dom/mes without a submissive...there is a need to engage in that symbiotic relationship for there to be a positive and fulfilling outcome. I don't see what you think of as the way you would like to experence it by including a third party as pathological, though I understand to appeals to you. Of course, if you do ever venture there, please be sure to send us a 'hi there' post from the prison library computer so we don't add you to the list of 'where did they go' people.

Catalina

 

[Let_it_come]

Ah, so would it be more correct to say you are actually just one of the plebs sent out with the questions to ask, observations to make as specified, more so than an actual researcher who designs, organises, and arranges the project and compiles the collected information?

Catalina

Ouch!
Such loaded language, Cat.
But you're right I'm just a cog in the machine. One of 12 on this project pulling data together. Soon be done.
Next project is over on the Stats side. Another scalp for the CV.
My research here was just mapping posts & relationships. Not even asking questions or making any observations, just noting how 'The group' seemed to function. Phoney-baloney tosh!
Soc bods like me did it & then fed it to the Psych boys who tried to make it mean whatever they wanted it to. Voodoo has more validity IMHO. Glad it's all over!


Edit: When I say "Researcher" you are talking about much more than the reality of the job I've been doing. IF ONLY I could call the shots! My role has just been harvesting data. Dull!

 

[Let_it_come]

This is not odd...I have played in such scenes with F where we give sadistic delights to a third person...problem here is proposing 2 sadists together without a third or more person to inflict the pain etc., on doesn't work for me anymore than the thought of 2 masochists without a sadist, or 2 subs without a Dom/me or 2 Dom/mes without a submissive...there is a need to engage in that symbiotic relationship for there to be a positive and fulfilling outcome. I don't see what you think of as the way you would like to experence it by including a third party as pathological, though I understand to appeals to you. Of course, if you do ever venture there, please be sure to send us a 'hi there' post from the prison library computer so we don't add you to the list of 'where did they go' people.

Catalina

GOD I loved this post!
LOL!

We're looking for a masochist for a 3some at the moment. Yes, it's a compromise.
I'd like to get a prostitute instead, but Oh - the problems with that!

It's a tricky business making this one real. As a fantasy it runs & runs, but making it happen in reality is a tough one for us.
The Masochist 3rd party option is the most do-able, but then we have to pretend that she's not enjoying herself... Catch 22 for the likes of us.
She would get what she wants (would she? Don't know & can't really understand), for us to get what we want then we are heading to prison before too long as you (& Eb before) quite rightly say.
Ahhh well!
I'm very happy to keep you posted in how we get on. It might give you a laugh if nothing else.

Jenny

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ouch!
Such loaded language, Cat.
But you're right I'm just a cog in the machine. One of 12 on this project pulling data together. Soon be done.
Next project is over on the Stats side. Another scalp for the CV.
My research here was just mapping posts & relationships. Not even asking questions or making any observations, just noting how 'The group' seemed to function. Phoney-baloney tosh!
Soc bods like me did it & then fed it to the Psych boys who tried to make it mean whatever they wanted it to. Voodoo has more validity IMHO. Glad it's all over!

Not loaded, just what we used to refer to ourselves when we were in the same position. I much more enjoyed the role of researcher though in terms of devising the study and how it would work and what specifically it would look at. It challenged me to try and make it unable to be tampered with while also challenging the idea that psychology had it all worked out...that was the easiest to do as you ust had to begin listing subjects where the theories had been changed dramatically several times in a matter of a few decades, and were still being changed to contradict previous thoughts. A good psychologist IMO does not believe so rigidly that life mimics what is written in the text books, but relies on actual people as a reference point to how diverse and different peoples reactions can be. Fortunately at the moment I am dealing with one such person and 2 not so open ones...gratefully the open and ever questioning one is the one who is directing things and learning more every day.

Catalina

Catalina

 

[Let_it_come]

Not loaded, just what we used to refer to ourselves when we were in the same position. I much more enjoyed the role of researcher though in terms of devising the study and how it would work and what specifically it would look at. It challenged me to try and make it unable to be tampered with while also challenging the idea that psychology had it all worked out...that was the easiest to do as you ust had to begin listing subjects where the theories had been changed dramatically several times in a matter of a few decades, and were still being changed to contradict previous thoughts. A good psychologist IMO does not believe so rigidly that life mimics what is written in the text books, but relies on actual people as a reference point to how diverse and different peoples reactions can be. Fortunately at the moment I am dealing with one such person and 2 not so open ones...gratefully the open and ever questioning one is the one who is directing things and learning more every day.

Catalina

Catalina

Ouch again!

You were actually doing REAL work !!!!
I'm jealous.
I think most current research I'm seeing is purely to prove whatever conclusion the dick (and yes, it's usually a he) has decided he wants to back up. First they write the conclusion then they dream up a snappy title for their paper then they cobble together some 'evidence'.
I don't know when or where you were doing research but at the moment it is a long way away from your experience. It's now all about career moves & getting a bigger budget next year to spend on advancing your profile even further.
Bitter much?

 

[SpectreT]

Looks like a penny on the tracks can derail a train...

of thought.

This one had "slamtrack" written all over the side of it, once we moved from general ideas down to specific examples to try to "prove" a point.

Okay, those who don't closely identify wholly in either the "Dom" camp or the "Sub" camp, how so, and why not? Is it that D/S isn't your thing? Is it that you've got some peanut butter in your chocolate? Is it that you just don't like the labels? Let's start there, and spin off baby threads as needed to cope with what may quickly and easily become obfuscatory rhetoric, which the humiliation was threatening to, and the Sadism (clinical-pathological-flavored) has so completely, become.

One sidetrack that may be productive, if we can keep from getting bogged down nailing specific jelly to a tree, was the sidetrack that spawned rather a lot of not germane to the OP information:

Is reciprocity essential? If so, how much reciprocity? How flexible are we with our kinks? Can somewhat mismatched kinks still lead to a productive and worthwhile relationship?

edit to correct a spelling flaw

 

[Let_it_come]

Amen.
I love talking to everyone, but I should be doing it elsewhere.
Psyche of Sadists thread?
Sadism thread?
Or in PMs, I don't mind.
I an endlessly fascinated with all this but, what has it got to do with the title of the thread? Not much.
Good reminder S.T.

 

[MechaBlade]

I identify myself as a dom, but I vary from being dominant to being equal (vanilla).

What I always liked about the BDSM world is that each set of partners dictates their relationship so that there are many different levels or types of dom and sub.

The thing is, many people outside of the BDSM scene don't understand that. I don't think I did before I came here. You don't have to fit into some tiny box definition of what some council of BDSM elders think "dom", "sub" and "switch" mean. They aren't concrete labels. They're concrete suggestions.

 

[SirFace]

I identify myself as a dom, but I vary from being dominant to being equal (vanilla).


The thing is, many people outside of the BDSM scene don't understand that. I don't think I did before I came here. You don't have to fit into some tiny box definition of what some council of BDSM elders think "dom", "sub" and "switch" mean. They aren't concrete labels. They're concrete suggestions.

Thats pretty much where I am right now, and it seems to be working for us. Still evolving.

 

[DE34Bill]

How True

And for a newbie, novice imagine the confusion between "sub" & feelings of dominace & the confusion esp when a virgin "searching" in Lower Delaware to learn " your role & the life"

 

[Ebonyfire]

Is reciprocity essential? If so, how much reciprocity? How flexible are we with our kinks? Can somewhat mismatched kinks still lead to a productive and worthwhile relationship?

I think that these questions can only be answered by the individials involved between themselves. After all, who is matched 100%?

 

[SpectreT]

Aren't We feeling Domly today?

Eb [As you were]

When leadership is lacking, I step in. I'm the ultimate team player, from Team Captain, all the way down to just a Grunt. Whatever's needed, I'll fill in. Kinda comes with my brand of switchyness.