Nurturing New Poets

[Rybka]

It might be a good idea to include "The Perfect Ten" challenge too, it's non-threatening to new arrivals.


(not that the other challenges are threatening - but you know what I mean..................I hope.)

I disagree. I don't think the welcome message should be loaded with anything specific. This also includes links. Such things can be placed in subsequent posts in the thread.

I would also reommend that the number of posts be short and that the thread then be finally edited and closed. - Please take it from me that more than one or two (at the max.) stickys really starts to make a board look cluttered and junky. It would be nice if the sticky could be separate and above the main thread listings, but I don't think this version of the VB script allows for that.

Regards, Rybka

 

[Angeline]

It might be a good idea to include "The Perfect Ten" challenge too, it's non-threatening to new arrivals.


(not that the other challenges are threatening - but you know what I mean..................I hope.)

I know what you mean, lol . We can put this in the link sticky. I like your point about it being nonthreatening to new folks--maybe I'll replace one of the current examples with it. That seems like a smart thing to do.

 

[Angeline]

I disagree. I don't think the welcome message should be loaded with anything specific. This also includes links. Such things can be placed in subsequent posts in the thread.

I would also reommend that the number of posts be short and that the thread then be finally edited and closed. - Please take it from me that more than one or two (at the max.) stickys really starts to make a board look cluttered and junky. It would be nice if the sticky could be separate and above the main thread listings, but I don't think this version of the VB script allows for that.

Regards, Rybka

Rubka, I agree! I don't btw feel the post is loaded with links (not that I think you're suggesting it is, lol--just saying), but I did like Tess's earlier suggestion about adding submission guidelines, and there are a few places where I think the reader would be lost without the links.

I agree we should *not* have more than two stickies, not only cause we don't want to clutter the board, but also cause I can't think of anything besides "welcome" and "poetry links" that we'd want to add. Maybe I'm missing something, but what else is there that can't be covered in a specific thread?

Assuming we can open the threads to edit after "closing" them--I'd close them with the one post each. I think if a bunch of us kept adding posts it would get confusing, but maybe I am not understanding.

(Anyway did it look acceptable to you otherwise?)

 

[Rybka]

Rubka, I agree! I don't btw feel the post is loaded with links (not that I think you're suggesting it is, lol--just saying), but I did like Tess's earlier suggestion about adding submission guidelines, and there are a few places where I think the reader would be lost without the links.

I agree we should *not* have more than two stickies, not only cause we don't want to clutter the board, but also cause I can't think of anything besides "welcome" and "poetry links" that we'd want to add. Maybe I'm missing something, but what else is there that can't be covered in a specific thread?

Assuming we can open the threads to edit after "closing" them--I'd close them with the one post each. I think if a bunch of us kept adding posts it would get confusing, but maybe I am not understanding.

(Anyway did it look acceptable to you otherwise?)

I would vote for just one sticky thread and make the first post the "Welcome & General Information" post and the second post a "Helpful Links" post. This will give a much cleaner look to the forum board. - Just my thoughts. - Rybka

 

[Angeline]

I would vote for just one sticky thread and make the first post the "Welcome & General Information" post and the second post a "Helpful Links" post. This will give a much cleaner look to the forum board. - Just my thoughts. - Rybka

ok. works for me

 

[JUDO]

Poetry was running around my prose when I arrived, but I'd only written one or two poems in my life before coming here. What really got me started were the "structure" threads that came along once in a while, outlining where to find information and including examples of poems in the form.

Often, these came in the form of challenges where anyone could participate, we simply "fill out the form."

After that, my growth has had a lot more to do with exposing the five senses, and using EVERY word -- there are no bridges, every word helps get the idea, the feeling, the image, the emotion, the humor across.

Then, it's a matter of inspiration. (Fortunately, for me inspiration seems to run right alongside my wicked nature. So, it's always ready for a good fuck.)

Perhaps we could recharge the old structured challenges once-every-so-often?

My thoughts.

- Judo

 

[Guest]

I agree with Judo.

I just searched high and low for information on the ghazal form of poetry and finally found this right under my nose.

 

[Rybka]

. . . (Anyway did it look acceptable to you otherwise?)

One more thing. PLEASE mention something about spell checking and grammar!!


Regards, Rybka

 

[Angeline]

One more thing. PLEASE mention something about spell checking and grammar!!


Regards, Rybka

This is from the other piece I posted on the first page:

4. Errors. We all make spelling or grammatical errors in poems on occasion, but anyone who wants to share a poem should make a serious effort to get the grammar, punctuation, and spelling right. Proofread your poem to clear up misspellings and typos. If your poem is full of errors, a careful reader may still understand it, but do you really want to make your readers sort through your mistakes? Would you want to do that with someone else's poem?

If you don't feel you have the skills to do it yourself, get help!

I can add a line to the welcome post, too. I vote for good grammer.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Final Draft

FINAL DRAFT

For the record (only for the record since I don't expect others to agree with me). Angeline's text should not serve as the basis for the final text. We should start from scratch. Perhaps Rybka can do a better job of writing without BS, in better taste. The text should have links to the general Literotica FAQ, it should avoid repeating what already is in Literotica FAQ. Keep it short, avoid any "flowing" statements or didactic tone--less is more.

Eve, the best way to nurture new poets is by nurturing poetry (while BS stifles poetry--you can't have both). Sure, there is room for helpful, purely logistic info (without BS) for the newcomers too.

 

[Icingsugar]

Re: Re: Final Draft

For the record (only for the record since I don't expect others to agree with me).

Well, yay and nay. The advice listed is right on the money, and the tone and attitude of the text works perfectly. We want people to feel welcomed, we don't to that by handing them a technocratic, dry checklist.

But when finally assembled, it turned out to be just too long. There's a risk that people won't have the patience to read it through. I see nothing wrong with the content and the advise given in the text, but I think it needs another editing round to condense it.

 

[Angeline]

Re: Re: Final Draft

For the record (only for the record since I don't expect others to agree with me). Angeline's text should not serve as the basis for the final text. We should start from scratch. Perhaps Rybka can do a better job of writing without BS, in better taste. The text should have links to the general Literotica FAQ, it should avoid repeating what already is in Literotica FAQ. Keep it short, avoid any "flowing" statements or didactic tone--less is more.

Eve, the best way to nurture new poets is by nurturing poetry (while BS stifles poetry--you can't have both). Sure, there is room for helpful, purely logistic info (without BS) for the newcomers too.

Senna put your money where your mouth is. If you can do a better job, let's see your draft here--not a link to some diatribe you wrote somewhere in 19whatever, lol. Post it here like I did. (And don't assign the job to Rybka or someone else like some distant professor emeritus for heaven's sake).

If the others think your text works, it's fine with me. I'm just trying to help. I'm not the last word on what to say or how to say it, but I'm pretty sure your brand of welcome wagon ain't the answer.

 

[Angeline]

Re: Re: Re: Final Draft

Well, yay and nay. The advice listed is right on the money, and the tone and attitude of the text works perfectly. We want people to feel welcomed, we don't to that by handing them a technocratic, dry checklist.

But when finally assembled, it turned out to be just too long. There's a risk that people won't have the patience to read it through. I see nothing wrong with the content and the advise given in the text, but I think it needs another editing round to condense it.

That's fine, Ice. I tend to have a fairly verbose prose style.

If I try to do it you'll get more of the same--maybe someone else is willing to do an edit????

 

[Icingsugar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Final Draft

That's fine, Ice. I tend to have a fairly verbose prose style.

If I try to do it you'll get more of the same--maybe someone else is willing to do an edit????

Are we in a hurry? I'm a bit busy right now, but I could have a go at it this week. My personal writing style tends t be even more wordy than yours, but I can probably switch into Schoolbook Mode like I do when I work.

 

[Maria2394]

re: length of the thread post--while "prose-y" may indeed be a bit longer..., a short, bare clinical version, while straight to the point may definitely work better in so many cases,its only my opinion that if a new poet comes across the thread and is too impatient to read helpful suggestions, regardless of style, he or she is probably not geared toward being all that serious anyway...

the single most important way that any of us can welcome new people is feedback... many of us try, we do a pretty good job I think ( from reading the PC's) but I just wonder about the time thing..after a certain time has passed, do we just assume people no longer need FB? or are we sort of afraid to offer it so as not to hurt feelings..I posted one I knew was umm, carpy just to see what would happen, and not a single word was tossed..does that mean I am th eonly one that knew it sucked?? I dont think so...
good thread Eve

 

[Angeline]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Final Draft

Are we in a hurry? I'm a bit busy right now, but I could have a go at it this week. My personal writing style tends t be even more wordy than yours, but I can probably switch into Schoolbook Mode like I do when I work.

Thanks Ice.

Actually I have some great suggestions now from a few poet types who emailed me. I'll post them in a while for y'all to peruse, but I think they address the erm length issue quite well.

I'm not really in a hurry though I said I'd send the final copy (whatever that turns out to be) to Laurel on Monday. I was just trying to move it along. I'll post and leave some time for folks to peruse and make further revisions if they want.

As for links (which I think we're agreed will be a separate post in the Welcome/General Info thread), I am thinking there are various categories we could include, such as--

1. Links to threads posted on this forum or elsewhere at Lit (e.g., faqs, challenges, form poetry explantions)

2. Links to reference material; there are a few of these on the Lit submissions page, but they're more general. We could link to a poetry glossary, a rhyming dictionary, and so on. Personally I would find that very helpful, but others may not agree. I know we wouldn't want to look as if we're endorsing one site (or viewpoint) over another.

3. Links to online poetry collections offer a great opportunity to explore and compare styles. There are some terrific sites I know of, including a few with recorded performances of readings for those who like to listen. Again, I'd love that but not sure how others feel.

If you have opinions or links, folks, please post them or pm or email me if you like. I'm happy to help pull it together, but I really have no desire to impose my particular preferences on anyone.

 

[Angeline]

re: length of the thread post--while "prose-y" may indeed be a bit longer..., a short, bare clinical version, while straight to the point may definitely work better in so many cases,its only my opinion that if a new poet comes across the thread and is too impatient to read helpful suggestions, regardless of style, he or she is probably not geared toward being all that serious anyway...

the single most important way that any of us can welcome new people is feedback... many of us try, we do a pretty good job I think ( from reading the PC's) but I just wonder about the time thing..after a certain time has passed, do we just assume people no longer need FB? or are we sort of afraid to offer it so as not to hurt feelings..I posted one I knew was umm, carpy just to see what would happen, and not a single word was tossed..does that mean I am th eonly one that knew it sucked?? I dont think so...
good thread Eve

I try to send feedback and/or make public comments at least every few days. I don't always have time to do it though.

I almost never comment on a poem that doesn't appeal to me. Maybe that's wrong, but I don't like to invest the time in constructive criticism unless I am pretty sure the writer wants it.

Personally, I love getting that sort of review--if you see something I need to work on tell me! I may not agree, but I always consider suggestions (even in flames) and try to learn from them. However, it takes time to do a careful review, and it's disheartening to make the effort only to be told "I don't make changes" or some such.

 

[Maria2394]

yeah ange, you are right about that part, the attitude that sometimes comes with offering constructive FB... its happened to me, like "WTF do YOU know..." and that also applies to whether of not a poet is serious about learning...afterall, we arent born as instant poets..or it might sound something like this...goo goo ga, I want whats in your bra....

okay, not good example, that would make almost all men born as poets

 

[Angeline]

goo goo ga, I want whats in your bra....

that's Yeats, right?

 

[Angeline]

New Draft

Here's the latest draft of our proposed *sticky* (got that, anna? ) thread. I got some editorial help from a few of you, and I'm most appreciative--it's tough to edit yourself.

What do you think, folks? Does this address the "too long" concerns a few of you mentioned? This version breaks the information into discrete posts, each focusing on a different "newbie" issue. This way, readers can get the same info, but in smaller bites--and/or they can pick and choose what to read.

Again thank you for your help, you poets. You know who you are.

*****************************
PROPOSED REVISIONS


Thread Title: A Welcome & Information for New Poets

(Post I)
Welcome to the Literotica Poetry Feedback and Discussion Forum. We're here because we love poetry and want to help each other learn and become better poets.

This forum has no moderator, and anyone is freely encouraged to start threads, initiate challenges, recommend and review poems in the New Poems thread or elsewhere, and basically do whatever he or she feels furthers our shared goals of learning about poetry and growing as poets.

The general guidelines of Literotica apply here and include:

1. No spam / No promoting of other websites.
2. No personals ads
3. No posting of another's personal information
4. No personal threats
5. No posting of copyrighted images

The various poets here represent many different views about what constitutes good poetry, but anyone can disagree and rants do happen. Please avoid personal insults and flame wars-- they just waste everyone's time.

If you have a personal problem with someone else on the forum, please deal with it privately in a PM or an email. Also note that this board is not the place for online role play or cybering--there are other forums at Literotica specifically for that.

Enjoy this forum! Learn, get involved, ask questions, ask for help, make friends. It's a good place.


The Poets

____________________________



(post II)
Useful Links
(Needs to be written)


____________________________

(post III)
Posting Poems

There are a few ways to share your poems at Literotica. You can submit them to the site and with some exceptions, your poems will be accepted and posted on the New Poem board the next day. Poems may be non-erotic as well as erotic and you may also submit audio and/or illustrated poems (which take somewhat longer to be approved). You may also receive free editorial help if you want it. All this is explained on this page and in the Submission Guidelines.

You can share your poem(s) by starting an appropriately titled thread (e.g., "My Poem(s)" or the actual title). Make sure to specify prominently whether or not you want comments about the poem(s) you're posting. If you just want others to read your poem then state in the thread that you don't want feedback. If you also submit a poem to Literotica, putting it in a thread here too, just to be read, is unneeded.

If you want others to review and critique your poem to help you improve it, state in the thread or thread title that you want feedback.

____________________________

(post IV)
Recommendations and Feedback

You can get responses to your posted poems via feedback and/or public comments. In addition, your posted poem may be mentioned in the New Poems thread, but please note that reviews are really just one person's opinion.

Getting Feedback
What can you expect when you've started a thread called

"Here's My Poem" Feedback, please

Most poets here take reviewing seriously--we want to help one another and realize that everyone can improve, so it's pretty unlikely that you'll just hear "Great job" or "Loved it," even if the reviewer does love your poem. You'll probably get an opinion and suggestions for improvement. You do not have to change your poem of course, but you probably should consider the advice seriously. The commentator took the time to respond to your request after all.

Remember too that sometimes you have to take some bad with the good. If you are flamed, if a reviewer is personally nasty--and it occasionally happens here like anywhere else--please don't take it personally; use what helps you and move on.

Giving Feedback
You can return the favor by giving feedback. You may think you don't know how, but it's not difficult at all. If you're not sure what to do, try using the following as guidelines:

1. Say whether or not you liked the poem overall and why.
2. Name at least one specific thing you liked about--
subject
language use
format
3. Is there anything you just don't understand in the poem? What?
4. Can you think of a better way to say anything in the poem. If you can, suggest it!
5. Do you know of another poem or link that you think would help? If so, include it.

Always try to make specific suggestions for improvement. Ranting that a poem doesn't work or raving about it without saying why doesn't help the writer. Above all, be truthful but kind. Write the kind of review you'd like to get.

____________________________

(post V)
Challenges and Games

These are simply exercises to keep us all practicing our craft. Everyone is always welcome to participate. Try to follow the rules as they're set forth for each game or challenge. Some challenges are ongoing like the All of a Sudden Passion Suddenly thread or Pic-A-Thon, while others are of shorter duration. If you have questions, ask. If you have an idea for a challenge, post it. And have fun; it's supposed to be fun.

 

[deeply_decadent]

evening all,
I just wanted to shoot a thanks out to great people here. It is really refreshing to see a group both interested and passionate enough to want to make new people feel welcome.
I havent spent alot of time on specifically poetry related boards, yet on the whole the internet seems a "clicky" place. I was made to feel welcome here from the get go and am still basking in it.

It just really good to see, So thanks from newbie.
D

okay well my keyboard has just gone funny thinks everything is upper case unless i put cap locks down and then it still treats all punctuation that way>
like so so if i dissapear for a while you know why :s

any how if the go goo ga only comes into play when a bra is no longer in the equation
does that make me a poet?
sorry as a man i had to ask

d

 

[deeply_decadent]

evening all,
I just wanted to shoot a thanks out to great people here. It is really refreshing to see a group both interested and passionate enough to want to make new people feel welcome.
I havent spent alot of time on specifically poetry related boards, yet on the whole the internet seems a "clicky" place. I was made to feel welcome here from the get go and am still basking in it.

It just really good to see, So thanks from newbie.
D

okay well my keyboard has just gone funny thinks everything is upper case unless i put cap locks down and then it still treats all punctuation that way>
like so so if i dissapear for a while you know why :s

any how if the go goo ga only comes into play when a bra is no longer in the equation
does that make me a poet?
sorry as a man i had to ask

d

 

[deeply_decadent]

evening all,
I just wanted to shoot a thanks out to great people here. It is really refreshing to see a group both interested and passionate enough to want to make new people feel welcome.
I havent spent alot of time on specifically poetry related boards, yet on the whole the internet seems a "clicky" place. I was made to feel welcome here from the get go and am still basking in it.

It just really good to see, So thanks from newbie.
D

okay well my keyboard has just gone funny thinks everything is upper case unless i put cap locks down and then it still treats all punctuation that way>
like so so if i dissapear for a while you know why :s

any how if the go goo ga only comes into play when a bra is no longer in the equation
does that make me a poet?
sorry as a man i had to ask

 

[WickedEve]

I've avoided this thread lately. Did you people ever reach a decision?
I actually have another idea that I'm going to present to Laurel. What do you all think of making The Poets a moderator, or at least, giving that user name the power of the sticky. We could then stick new challenges and whatever.

 

[Angeline]

I've avoided this thread lately. Did you people ever reach a decision?
I actually have another idea that I'm going to present to Laurel. What do you all think of making The Poets a moderator, or at least, giving that user name the power of the sticky. We could then stick new challenges and whatever.

Ok by me. I wrote the initial draft, made all the suggested revisions, posted the revised draft, asked for comments, and got one (from Homer, who liked the first draft better, lol--well but he liked them both and was very sweet about it ). Anyway at that point I realized that this sort of thing is precisely why I left the corporate world and, well, I got a little depressed. But then I had some chocolate ice cream and made out with eagleyez and it was better.

Anyway I'm a Poet, right? What do I have to do if I'm one of the moderators? Do I have to card people? <note to ee--not you honey--I still don't understand why you were carded for attempting to buy a turkey sandwich but I'm glad you look young. > I say we make Lauren do the carding cause she's the mean one--she has that av with the Glock or whatever it is.

Anyway I'll do it as long as I don't have to write another draft of that fuggin thingy.