Obedience does not a Sub make

[Netzach]

I don't expect things to be met with vapid smiles, but I don't accept whining or foot dragging from H. It's just not acceptable in the course of our interactions. If he has concerns, he's perfectly green-lighted to express them, and we've had relationship problems that he's brought to my attention and we've talked about and steered through - I don't want it to seem like I expect slaves to be happy no matter what, but I do expect them to do it first, THEN sit on it a little THEN let me know if there's a problem.

"Gee I hated that" is usually not a problem to me, or something that merits more than notation, and usually is VERY clear at the time anyway.

All of this applies to slaves, for me.

My husband is submissive in the "personalities" sense, but hardly someone who doesn't foot drag or whine. His first impulse is "no."
Obviously I keep him anyway. Because I like cats, and I like dogs too, but I am a "cat person" at heart.

 

[twysted73]

it made me feel self-conscious though.....i thought i was doing a great job, then to hear he's not satisfied (or unhappy about )......it's making me feel like i'm not sure how to act now....

*digs into his pocket and tosses out two pennies onto the table*

YOu sound apprehensive. You sound hurt by his expressions of displeasure.
Perhaps you might try sharing your thoughts out of scene so the submissive/Dominant relationship/feelings don't get bruised. I've noticed that feelings in-scene are so much more sensitive and easily bruised as opposed to out of scene. (no doubt brought upon by the heightened sense of trust and velnerability/exposure)

He may be needing a different "flavor/style" of submission from you that you are either unable to or are unwilling to provide. And it shouldn't be placed on you to shoulder the blame for how you are.

Like it was said earlier in the thread..."You are who you are. Enjoy it."
If he's not right for you or if he's unable to alter his demand or criticism of your performance (which, in your mind, is giving all you have and rightfully so) perhaps another Top might be what you need?

 

[FurryFury]

i was told that i was guilty of not completely surrendering myself.....that while i was quite obedient.....just how much of it is under "silent protest"
my truth is that i do occasionally obey but not agree/like it (decisions, opinions, plans)

does that mean i'm not really submissive....a pretender because i bend the rules to suit me.....because i don't completely, with every fiber of my being, completely surrender without ANY question, ever......

does this mean i don't know what i'm doing or i don't know what it really means to be sub.....


pet

I can't quite believe that obedience is wrong and not enough, or that you MUST love doing anything he wants you to do.

In my opinion people earn trust which may or may not be a 100% deal and can always be lost.

 

[northwoods_sub]

so...he's sulking because you can't be wildly enthusiastic about the things you don't like?
because he'd rather you loved everything he loves?

and blindly trust?

i am not a submissive either.

Shit!! I am not a submissive either! Nobody tell my Dom okay.

 

[callinectes]

We just had this conversation a few days ago. I asked him how he feels about it when I am obeying but I am clearly unhappy/ambivilant/scared about it. His response was that the fact I am obeying to please him and have put my objections aside is what submission is all about. It does not displease him in the least, in fact, he finds it incredibly arousing and satisfying.

Why didn't we talk like this the first time around?

 

[TheBlackDahlia]

From what I'm seeing, he's either expecting too much or just looking for things to complain about. Your not going to completely enjoy and relish in every single thing that he does. In my opinion, that's part of the whole deal. The fact that you are doing what he wants of you all the time, even when you didn't really want to, is fantastic and I am wondering why that is not enough for him. It seems to me like this is more his issue than yours. Hell, I wouldn't expect my subs to be thrilled everytime I demanded something of them.

 

[incubus_dark]

I would say that obeying, even when you don't completely agree, is as much or more of an act of submission than obeying when you wholeheartedly want the same thing. So clearly, there are no grounds for you to call the nature of your submission into question.

I personally find constant blind submission a bit of a bore, and the responses and reactions of a little, 'against the will', to be both refreshing and intoxicating. And too, total blind dumb smiling obedience is much like one of those women that's easy to bed, but then just lays there and takes it like a spectator; there's nothing behind it: It's a symptom of low intelligence, or lack of imagination, or both, as often as not.

Another thing I've noted over the years, is that a dom who is insecure in his position, will commonly watch for you telegraphing your enjoyment, willingness etc. as a sign that he both, has you continuing permission, and is doing it 'correctly'. That is to say, that because he's unsure of himself, either through inexperience or insecurity, he may look for feedback from you to reasure himself, and in such a case, you unwillingness may be read a disaproval, which may rub raw against his ego.

In any event, I'd be tempted to suggest that the problem lies more with your dom than with you, and a lack of understanding and or communication is what has caused you to question yourself, rather than a genuine defecit.

 

[myinnerslut]

i just got back from class and havnt had a chance to read all the responses so forgive me if i say something that has already been touched on.

A asks four main things of me. well, really he asks many thing of me but for the most part they fall under these four catagories.

self restraint, obediance, devotion, and trust

when i am lacking in any one of those four catagories, my submission to him is not complete.

now, i didnt wake up one day and decide to give A these things. self restraint was something i had to learn for myself before i could offer it to him. obedience was something i stuggled with at times. devotion was perhaps the easiest for me, as i cant really think of a time i havnt been devoted to him. trust was built up, worked on, and earned. it was not a simple process that took place in a few hours, it was something that developed.

why, you may ask, is love not included in those four catagories? love is something that grew of its own accord, not something A or anyone else has the right to demand.

to summarize, submission is more then a blanket word. it has various components. the main components of my submission may be differnt then yours. and to complicate things futher, those components dont appear, they develop. to expect or demand otherwise is unrealistic.

 

[pandoravampire]

it made me feel self-conscious though.....i thought i was doing a great job, then to hear he's not satisfied (or unhappy about )......it's making me feel like i'm not sure how to act now....

I wonder if he is aware that his demand of your trust has inspired this reaction?

Id go to him with this. He could of course, want you on the back foot, not knowing which end of you is up. But, perhaps not this early in the game.

Often, mine would provide a certain evening, with high hopes of inspiring this feeling or that within me, when discussed our session outside of the play, he was dissappointed to find that i had not learnt what he intended. Darn it!

So we learnt to discuss what had been occurring for both of us, during different styles of play. What switched what button etc. And now can utilise this knowledge to our mutual benefit. Its called getting to know one another. And its done over time.

A dom that requires trust, blind trust from the off, (as in, you dont really have enough evidence yet to show you he's trust worthy in this aspect or that aspect) has been reading too much bdsm porn and not getting enough experience in the real world, where trust is earned, slowly, over a period of time, from evidence HE provides you with.

but im sure, if your both willing, trust is something that you can both receive and give to one another, in increasing amounts over time.

goodluck
pandoravampire

 

[cookiecat]

i just got back from class and havnt had a chance to read all the responses so forgive me if i say something that has already been touched on.

A asks four main things of me. well, really he asks many thing of me but for the most part they fall under these four catagories.

self restraint, obediance, devotion, and trust

when i am lacking in any one of those four catagories, my submission to him is not complete.

now, i didnt wake up one day and decide to give A these things. self restraint was something i had to learn for myself before i could offer it to him. obedience was something i stuggled with at times. devotion was perhaps the easiest for me, as i cant really think of a time i havnt been devoted to him. trust was built up, worked on, and earned. it was not a simple process that took place in a few hours, it was something that developed.

why, you may ask, is love not included in those four catagories? love is something that grew of its own accord, not something A or anyone else has the right to demand.

to summarize, submission is more then a blanket word. it has various components. the main components of my submission may be differnt then yours. and to complicate things futher, those components dont appear, they develop. to expect or demand otherwise is unrealistic.

I just wanted to say this was really good. Really.

the pet: just wondered how you are with this issue?

 

[myinnerslut]

I just wanted to say this was really good. Really.

thank you

 

[Qpet05]

i'm usually a lurker here so please treat me kindly....

Master has given me 4 Tenets of Submission... Trust, Respect, Honesty and Obiedence.

When W/we started this journey together He told me that Respect and Honesty were foremost and He expected them from day one... Trust would be built slowly as i saw that He knew what was best for me and i dealt with my issued of trust from past relationships. Obedience would also come when He wanted it and i offered it.

i offered it to Him immediately It hasn't been easy and the TRUST was hard won by me. There are still some things that when i DO them i don't understand the "why" behind it.. but when the task is completed and i see the end result i get that "ah ha" moment when i see that Master again Knew what was best for me at the time!

 

[FurryFury]

Those ah ha moments are so fantastic aren't they?

*smiles*

 

[Qpet05]

Those ah ha moments are so fantastic aren't they?

*smiles*

Yes they are!! and even after 2 years of belonging to Master i STILL get them!!

 

[FurryFury]

*smiles*

I'm happy for you!

 

[the_pet]

Thanks everybody for the awesome responses. The wisdom gleaned from those speaking from experience is priceless.

we have talked about it a couple more times. He has the mentality of "either your with me...or against me". He thinks that while i obey i should also endorse or else it's seen as "against him". Even talking about this still here would be seen as an example of how i don't trust his leading or else i wouldn't give it a second thought and would drop it because he said so. His last comment about it was, "were done with this, everything's good, i believe you understand and any further discussion just proves my point that you won't just believe that what i say is the right course of action". I haven't mentioned it anymore.


thanks again for all that took the time to respond
pet