Oklahoma Judge soft on Pedos, one year sentence for raping a 5-year old girl

[intothewoods]

We don't know all of the facts....

Maybe they talked to the girl, she said that she purposefully seduced him and would do it again as much as she liked.. so they gave up on her as a witness and instead roped this poor, innocent man who was seduced by a nubile young lass into a plea bargain knowing that he was innocent.

You're not helping. She's 5.

 

[Tawny_Temptress]

We don't know all of the facts....

Maybe they talked to the girl, she said that she purposefully seduced him and would do it again as much as she liked.. so they gave up on her as a witness and instead roped this poor, innocent man who was seduced by a nubile young lass into a plea bargain knowing that he was innocent.

you forgot about the girls collection of sexy jammies!

 

[Betticus]

you forgot about the girls collection of sexy jammies!

My little pony is hawt!!!

 

[Sir_Winston54]

If the guy raped and forcibly sodomized the girl as the story says, no punishment is sufficient. A five-year-old is not capable of forming the intent to seduce an adult, period.

However, according to all the follow-up material, there was serious concern on the part of the prosecutors that they would be able to garner a conviction, given the age of the witness, her reluctance to talk, and the lack of external evidence. The defense attorney, if he (and his client) really wanted to, could have played hardball and insisted on a trial, throwing the dice that a jury would - as it's supposed to - ignore the emotional issues of the trial and rely solely on the evidence available to it, which, according to the prosecutor, was sadly lacking and probably would not result in a conviction. Instead, the defense attorney, according to the news stories, proposed the twenty-year sentence with nineteen years suspended, which means that any violation of his parole during that nineteen years would mean he'd go back to prison for the remainder of his term... if he survives the one year to begin with, which is not a high probability wager.

He'll also be required to register as a sexual predator wherever he lives for the rest of his life, and in many states, even if he completes his parole successfully, if he commits any subsequent felonies, could be subject to indefinite involuntary civil commitment under the Jimmy Ryce Act (or other states' equivalent).

What the prosecutor agreed to was the best the state thought it could get under the circumstances of this case, and the judge confirmed it, I can reasonably well assure you, because he *agreed* with the prosecutor, knowing what he already knew of the evidence and the extremely poor quality of witness that the victim would make. It's not a good deal for the state or the child... but it's better than allowing the SOB to walk out of the courtroom a free man because a jury determined that the evidence did not prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

I empathize deeply with the child, her mother, and all their friends and relatives who have been and will be affected by this, but looking at the case from a strictly logical viewpoint, I think the prosecution and the judge did pretty much the best they could under very, *very* difficult circumstances.

From an emotional viewpoint, I hope the SOB gets thrown in general population and raped and sodomized until his gums and ass bleed him dry.

 

[graceanne]

We don't know all of the facts....

Maybe they talked to the girl, she said that she purposefully seduced him and would do it again as much as she liked.. so they gave up on her as a witness and instead roped this poor, innocent man who was seduced by a nubile young lass into a plea bargain knowing that he was innocent.

Stop antagonizing everyone.

 

[graceanne]

Also, sometimes testifying against their abuser is like putting the child through the abuse again. Talking about it doesn't always help. Sadly, he won't be the only one to get a light sentence because the parents choose not to force their child through a trial.

 

[nh23]

Also, sometimes testifying against their abuser is like putting the child through the abuse again. Talking about it doesn't always help. Sadly, he won't be the only one to get a light sentence because the parents choose not to force their child through a trial.

*nods* That's why my Mother never pressed the issue. However if I would have been old enough to have pushed it I would have. I still see the person from time to time and I can't even describe the hate and sickness I feel. It's also made my relationship with my Mother very difficult. There is a part of me that hates her for it.

 

[Betticus]

Ummm.... just to toss this out there..

What if the guy being charged didn't do it?

 

[graceanne]

*nods* That's why my Mother never pressed the issue. However if I would have been old enough to have pushed it I would have. I still see the person from time to time and I can't even describe the hate and sickness I feel. It's also made my relationship with my Mother very difficult. There is a part of me that hates her for it.

That's actually normal. Not everyone does it, but I know my mom has serious anger issues with her parents for not preventing her abuse. But, honestly, her parents have issues with themselves for not preventing, for trusting him.

On the bright side, he died of prostate cancer. My mother GIGGLED when she heard that. LOL

 

[nh23]

Ummm.... just to toss this out there..

What if the guy being charged didn't do it?

Why didn't he plead not guilty and fight it then? He has a right to a trial if he chooses.

 

[JMohegan]

You'd think that after the criticism in light of the Dr. Tiller murder, O'Reilly would be hesitant to inspire this witch hunt in the face of judicial and prosecutorial conduct that happens every day. Doesn't anyone watch Law & Order?! Yes, that's a tv show, but the fact that DAs and judges make tough calls all the time is fact.

I'm a diehard for free speech. In conversations with friends, I have defended Michael Savage with that whole AIDS comment and Imus and all sorts of idiots. But when someone commits murder with all of that vitriol out there, it gives me pause. If Imus got fired, why not O'Reilly? Why are people not more outraged?

These are the days that try one's commitment to free speech.

What the hell is the matter with people? I don't know.

 

[unregistered]

 

[intothewoods]

Why didn't he plead not guilty and fight it then? He has a right to a trial if he chooses.

Because it's cheaper to take the plea. Certainty - what if you lose and are sentenced to a lot of time in jail? This way you know what you're getting.

Ummm.... just to toss this out there..

What if the guy being charged didn't do it?

Presumption of innocence?

 

[unregistered]

 

[nh23]

Because it's cheaper to take the plea. Certainty - what if you lose and are sentenced to a lot of time in jail? This way you know what you're getting.

I think knowing the way child abusers are treated in prison, and like was previously stated about him having to register as an abuser would make that very unlikely.

 

[intothewoods]

I think knowing the way child abusers are treated in prison, and like was previously stated about him having to register as an abuser would make that very unlikely.

Fair point, but would being in jail for a decade rather than a year make that any better? Look, I'm not saying he's definitely innocent. But innocent people are convicted. It happens all the time.

Did anyone see Capturing the Friedmans? A documentary about a very complicated case, to say the least. Innocent people are sometimes convicted and the fear of that could persuade you to take a deal. I'm not saying the guy is innocent but it's possible.

 

[intothewoods]

These are the days that try one's commitment to free speech.

What the hell is the matter with people? I don't know.

What's up with the whole Jews and blacks are united against us shit? So interesting. The whole supremacist line was always blacks are beneath us and should be separate but Jews are the devil and should be killed. Now it's like they so smoothly just linked us all together. Maybe this will improve black-jewish relations.

 

[nh23]

Fair point, but would being in jail for a decade rather than a year make that any better? Look, I'm not saying he's definitely innocent. But innocent people are convicted. It happens all the time.

Did anyone see Capturing the Friedmans? A documentary about a very complicated case, to say the least. Innocent people are sometimes convicted and the fear of that could persuade you to take a deal. I'm not saying the guy is innocent but it's possible.

*nods* You're right. If he's innocent he shouldn't be punished. If he's guilty they should nail his cock to a big stud in a house. Set the house on fire and leave him with a butter knife.

 

[00Syd]

Presumption of innocence?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Such a completely excellent comment.

 

[lass714]

I hope they put him in general population.

It's Oklahoma, they still have a guy doing 99 years for possession of marijuana.

Look at other factors involved, a prison stay for a child molester isn't exactly a picnic. What happens to them is normally far worse than the damage they did to the child, if they even survive in prison.

There has also been a trend that is disturbing with justice in the realm of child abuses. The penalties have been elevated to such horrific levels that it seems to be worth it for a child abuser to just go ahead and murder the child and dispose of the body. In another place or time when you would have opportunity for someone with the desire for kids to seek professional help we've pushed this issue to the point where there is no help for these persons in the time they need it most, before they ever actually physically or mentally abuse a kid. Instead they try to hide it until it becomes obsession and then leads to criminal acts for which the penalty is so unbalanced that it leads to murdered children littering the country.

Once the crime has been committed there is nothing you can do but be mad and seek vengeance. I'm thinking that the better way is to change that philosophy to one of prevention vs. knee jerk reaction after the fact.

Of course, some people out there just need to be killed because nothing you do can make them fit to be in the presence of the rest of humanity.

First off if I get a little 'testy' I apologize, as I have a tendency to do so on this subject....I hate to disappoint you but child molesters are never placed in the general population within the prison system. The reasoning is the same as why we would all like for them to be within that population.

Pedophilia is a psychological defect that has no known cure It is a mental compulsion that the individual cannot control. Period end of story, It cannot be controlled with medication, nor chemical castration. Therapy is a hit or miss.... and hits are very rare. The child molester preys and controls the child by fear, manipulation, gifts, etc. There are various types of predators with various types of 'preferences' when it comes to children. Personally I blame everyone except the victim. Although I feel this way, I know it's irrational as there is no logic behind these feelings. Logically, what evidence did they have? Some scarring and a 5 y.o. who could not testify. They had an option of going to trial. If you were to utilize past verdicts on case history under this scenario, the molester would have been found not guilty, and served zero time. Why? Because of the history in which individuals were wrongly accused and prosecuted on manipulated evidence and testimony.

Betticus believe me when I say this. There is PLENTY of help out there for Pedo's. They do not believe what they desire is wrong. The majority of them will tell you that. They realize they are unacceptable to society, they don't care. What they care about is sexual gratification.

 

[graceanne]

First off if I get a little 'testy' I apologize, as I have a tendency to do so on this subject....I hate to disappoint you but child molesters are never placed in the general population within the prison system. The reasoning is the same as why we would all like for them to be within that population.

Pedophilia is a psychological defect that has no known cure It is a mental compulsion that the individual cannot control. Period end of story, It cannot be controlled with medication, nor chemical castration. Therapy is a hit or miss.... and hits are very rare. The child molester preys and controls the child by fear, manipulation, gifts, etc. There are various types of predators with various types of 'preferences' when it comes to children. Personally I blame everyone except the victim. Although I feel this way, I know it's irrational as there is no logic behind these feelings. Logically, what evidence did they have? Some scarring and a 5 y.o. who could not testify. They had an option of going to trial. If you were to utilize past verdicts on case history under this scenario, the molester would have been found not guilty, and served zero time. Why? Because of the history in which individuals were wrongly accused and prosecuted on manipulated evidence and testimony.

Betticus believe me when I say this. There is PLENTY of help out there for Pedo's. They do not believe what they desire is wrong. The majority of them will tell you that. They realize they are unacceptable to society, they don't care. What they care about is sexual gratification.

Sociopolitical desires is a psychological defect, too. But we still put Ted Bundy to death.

 

[Betticus]

Psychological defect is subjective. It's something that is defined by a culture as to what is normal and what is abnormal. Within the bdsm community I'm sure that we understand this more keenly than most because lots of people believe us to be psychologically off.

Now, the following is considered to be completely normal ... if you are a member of this group...

Among the Sambian people of New Guinea, homosexuality among males is considered a rite of manhood. Boys are encouraged to form attachments to men and fellate them. In fact, the Sambian people believe ingesting semen to be necessary for attaining strength and virility. However, once a Sambian male reaches manhood, he is expected to periodically copulate with female Sambians for the purpose of procreation. Sex with tribal outsiders is taboo.

In this country it's pedophilia and a damning offense but there it is the norm.

 

[graceanne]

lots of people believe us to be psychologically off.

We aren't?

 

[SimonBrooke]

We don't know all of the facts....

Maybe they talked to the girl, she said that she purposefully seduced him and would do it again as much as she liked.. so they gave up on her as a witness and instead roped this poor, innocent man who was seduced by a nubile young lass into a plea bargain knowing that he was innocent.

She was FIVE, SIXTY years younger than him. It doesn't matter whether she 'deliberately seduced him' or not (in my mind it would not matter if she was fifteen and 'deliberately seduced him'). What matters is whether sexual contact happened. If it did he's guilty. I do not want to assault the guy with a screwdriver or anything else; that sort of vigilantism is, to my mind, for savages. But, if he did it, then, as a community, we have a duty to see he doesn't get the opportunity to do it again.

It seems that the prosecuting authorities sincerely believe he did it. Furthermore the fact that he was willing to plead no contest also implies (but does not prove) guilt. In the UK we have arrangements that allow a young witness to be questioned on video, not in the courtroom but in a more sympathetic environment and for that video to be admitted as evidence; but even this is not wholly satisfactory and in any case a traumatised child is unlikely to be able to produce a consistent, coherent story.

As I've said above, our adversarial court system is not well adapted to eliciting and evaluating evidence from traumatised children. This isn't a failure of the judge, or of the prosecutors. It's a failure of the system.

 

[Betticus]

In the UK we have arrangements that allow a young witness to be questioned on video, not in the courtroom but in a more sympathetic environment and for that video to be admitted as evidence; but even this is not wholly satisfactory and in any case a traumatised child is unlikely to be able to produce a consistent, coherent story.

From reading it seems that the judge had approved the video testimony for the girl.

A while back (years) in this country we did have a rash of (recovered memories) of child sexual abuse that led to some court cases. The memories were "recovered" by a social worker who had some training in psychology but not enough. It later turned out that this social worker had brought several girls to a point of suggestability and then actually implanted false memories that were as far as the girls were concerned real. The social worker had been abused as a child and saw abuse or signs of abuse in everything. She truly believed that she was just helping but instead she perpetrated the very crimes upon these girls that she thought she saw signs of and on top of that destroyed families, trust, love...

We will probably never know what really happened or to what extent anything that happened came out to.

Now, in a case like the recent one where a registered sex offender crept into his neighbors 17 year old daughters bedroom at night naked with a knife and got choked to death by her father.... I'm all ok with that one.