Oklahoma Judge soft on Pedos, one year sentence for raping a 5-year old girl

[graceanne]

From reading it seems that the judge had approved the video testimony for the girl.

A while back (years) in this country we did have a rash of (recovered memories) of child sexual abuse that led to some court cases. The memories were "recovered" by a social worker who had some training in psychology but not enough. It later turned out that this social worker had brought several girls to a point of suggestability and then actually implanted false memories that were as far as the girls were concerned real. The social worker had been abused as a child and saw abuse or signs of abuse in everything. She truly believed that she was just helping but instead she perpetrated the very crimes upon these girls that she thought she saw signs of and on top of that destroyed families, trust, love...

We will probably never know what really happened or to what extent anything that happened came out to.

Now, in a case like the recent one where a registered sex offender crept into his neighbors 17 year old daughters bedroom at night naked with a knife and got choked to death by her father.... I'm all ok with that one.

My sister had a friend who discovered that his father in law had been molesting his daughter for several years. He was at work when his wife called him and told him.

The police met his at his father in laws house, and had to pin him down and wrestle the bat he was holding out of his hands. The kinda funny part is he got there at the same time the police did, and they said 'freeze!' and he paused and thought 'fuck that, they're not going to shoot me' and kept running. Luckily he was right - they (the cops) were fathers and understood what he was doing, but they also knew that the last thing that little girl needed was her daddy to spend any time in jail.

The cops did get in a few sucker punches after they got that son of a bitch handcuffed. Or so I hear. Not good enough, though. I'm not going to go into detail about the things he was doing to that little girl, but he deserves an eternity in hell. After being put in general population.

*sigh*

 

[Betticus]

One of the most important things is to control the reactions of the adults around the child because that can be very traumatic for them as well. This is why it is so important to get help from a PROFESSIONAL who knows exactly how to deal with these situations is.

Kids are very sensitive to adults emotions, they pick up on them and internalize them.

 

[graceanne]

One of the most important things is to control the reactions of the adults around the child because that can be very traumatic for them as well. This is why it is so important to get help from a PROFESSIONAL who knows exactly how to deal with these situations is.

Kids are very sensitive to adults emotions, they pick up on them and internalize them.

True enough. I remember being very disgusted with the a fore mentioned little girls mother, cause she was so hysterical that they had to drug her.

My sister came to me when she was four (I was 20) and told me that one of the 'big boys' at their apartment complex had been taking down his pants and showing her his penis. I told my mom, and at first she handled it well. I was proud of her. She kept her crying and stuff to when we were alone. Then she decided it was all my sisters dad's fault, and they had some screaming fights about it. From that moment on my sister would not admit to him pulling his pants down. If you asked her she'd say 'no, he didn't' or 'i wasn't looking'.

And for clarification, this boy was 15, and we found out he (from other kids he was doing this to) was doing more than showing them his penis. We also found out he was being molested by his uncle. In a way, O telling me about it got his issues addressed. I hope he got counseling and stuff, and I hope he's not permanently scarred.

O won't admit to having seen anything, and it's because my mom and step dad made it about themselves and not her.

I hope nothing has happened to her since, because there's no way in hell she'd tell anyone anything.

 

[Netzach]

My sister had a friend who discovered that his father in law had been molesting his daughter for several years. He was at work when his wife called him and told him.

The police met his at his father in laws house, and had to pin him down and wrestle the bat he was holding out of his hands. The kinda funny part is he got there at the same time the police did, and they said 'freeze!' and he paused and thought 'fuck that, they're not going to shoot me' and kept running. Luckily he was right - they (the cops) were fathers and understood what he was doing, but they also knew that the last thing that little girl needed was her daddy to spend any time in jail.

The cops did get in a few sucker punches after they got that son of a bitch handcuffed. Or so I hear. Not good enough, though. I'm not going to go into detail about the things he was doing to that little girl, but he deserves an eternity in hell. After being put in general population.

*sigh*

As satisfying as those sucker punches must be, as much as I'd like to be able to spend an hour with one of these guys tied down and a sharp pencil, it's not worth the possibility of the whole case being thrown out.

Really, the whole damn case.

 

[Netzach]

One of the most important things is to control the reactions of the adults around the child because that can be very traumatic for them as well. This is why it is so important to get help from a PROFESSIONAL who knows exactly how to deal with these situations is.

Kids are very sensitive to adults emotions, they pick up on them and internalize them.

True enough. And kids will remember all kinds of things they think they're supposed to remember and that they're being encouraged to remember.

Really, the Satanic abuse cases of the 80's - a lot of perfectly innocent people had their lives utterly ruined. It was like the crucible with four year olds.

 

[SimonBrooke]

And for clarification, this boy was 15, and we found out he (from other kids he was doing this to) was doing more than showing them his penis. We also found out he was being molested by his uncle. In a way, O telling me about it got his issues addressed. I hope he got counseling and stuff, and I hope he's not permanently scarred.

That's one of the really scary things about this stuff. It's like an infectious disease. The people who do it seem mostly to have had it done to them, and so it passes on down the generations. And that's why I'm not going to join in with all the people who want to lynch these guys. I think they (mostly) already had their punishment, up front, when they were five or eight. Yes, we've got to prevent them passing the infection on, and if that means imprisonment for life so be it - but imprisonment somewhere humane and tolerable. I expect there are exceptions, but in my view most of them have probably already suffered (more than) enough.

 

[Corylea]

Explanations vs. Excuses

That's one of the really scary things about this stuff. It's like an infectious disease.

This is true. But,

The people who do it seem mostly to have had it done to them,

While it's true that the people who do it mostly have had it done to them, the people who have had it done to them mostly don't go on to do it themselves. If most survivors of child abuse can refrain from abusing others -- can feel horror at the very thought of becoming a perpetrator -- then I have to think that perhaps that small percentage of people who do pass it on could have stopped themselves.

And that's why I'm not going to join in with all the people who want to lynch these guys.

I make a distinction based on age. If someone who's five or ten or even fifteen was abused and then abuses others, well, kids don't have a lot of coping mechanisms yet; they don't have a lot of power yet, and they need for the adults to sit up and notice that Something Bad is Happening. But if someone is thirty or fifty or seventy, then they've had time to learn to deal with what happened to them without victimizing others, they've got the power to go to the police or to a survivor's group, and they don't need to act out to get someone to take them seriously. For the kids, "I was abused myself" is both an explanation and an excuse. For an adult, "I was abused myself" may be an explanation, but it's not an excuse.

 

[graceanne]

That's one of the really scary things about this stuff. It's like an infectious disease. The people who do it seem mostly to have had it done to them, and so it passes on down the generations. And that's why I'm not going to join in with all the people who want to lynch these guys. I think they (mostly) already had their punishment, up front, when they were five or eight. Yes, we've got to prevent them passing the infection on, and if that means imprisonment for life so be it - but imprisonment somewhere humane and tolerable. I expect there are exceptions, but in my view most of them have probably already suffered (more than) enough.

Yes, quite often they were abused, too. But their abusers were abused and their abusers were abused. Pretty soon the blame is so spread too thin, and people have to take responsibility for themselves.

Honestly, I don't care why people do the bad things they do. This is what being an adult is about, taking responsibility for yourself. My mother was abused and her father was abused and his father was abused. I choose not to abuse. It's a choice, just like to molest/not to molest children is a choice.

 

[Netzach]

This is true. But,




While it's true that the people who do it mostly have had it done to them, the people who have had it done to them mostly don't go on to do it themselves. If most survivors of child abuse can refrain from abusing others -- can feel horror at the very thought of becoming a perpetrator -- then I have to think that perhaps that small percentage of people who do pass it on could have stopped themselves.




I make a distinction based on age. If someone who's five or ten or even fifteen was abused and then abuses others, well, kids don't have a lot of coping mechanisms yet; they don't have a lot of power yet, and they need for the adults to sit up and notice that Something Bad is Happening. But if someone is thirty or fifty or seventy, then they've had time to learn to deal with what happened to them without victimizing others, they've got the power to go to the police or to a survivor's group, and they don't need to act out to get someone to take them seriously. For the kids, "I was abused myself" is both an explanation and an excuse. For an adult, "I was abused myself" may be an explanation, but it's not an excuse.

This expresses my feeling on it. And I think the inability to cope excuse runs out in your teens, at some point you figure out some kind of moral compass, end story. And it's explanation more than excuse, it's not a "ok, well that's OK" excuse but the one that puts you in a program and not in jail the rest of your natural life. I don't think rehabilitation is remotely likely after 18 with someone like this.

 

[Shankara20]

From an emotional viewpoint, I hope the SOB gets thrown in general population and raped and sodomized until his gums and ass bleed him dry.

I do understand this emotional response, just as long as we are not saying that there is a time rape is justified.


just askin...

 

[Shankara20]

Pedophilia is a psychological defect that has no known cure It is a mental compulsion that the individual cannot control. Period end of story, It cannot be controlled with medication, nor chemical castration. Therapy is a hit or miss.... and hits are very rare. The child molester preys and controls the child by fear, manipulation, gifts, etc. There are various types of predators with various types of 'preferences' when it comes to children. Personally I blame everyone except the victim.

I agree with this, and I want to add that not all perps against children are pedophiles. Pedophiles are categorized by some as "preferential" vs "situational" offenders.

An example of a "situational" perp might be an older teen in a family that molests a younger sibling. The preference for young children has not been fully established in their makeup to the point that has becomes an obsession. Situational offenders do respond well to treatment and often can be rehabilitated while serving time for their crime under the right circumstances.

I am not defending the behavior just giving information to fill out the picture a bit more.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

And at the opposite end of the spectrum:

Teen with 47 IQ gets 100 years in sex abuse case
Case stems from charges involving the fondling of a 6-year-old neighbor
updated 7:06 p.m. ET, Wed., June 10, 2009
PARIS, Texas - A teenager who has profound mental disabilities was sentenced to 100 years in prison after pleading guilty to charges in a sex abuse case involving his 6-year-old neighbor. Aaron Hart, 18, of Paris, was arrested and charged after a neighbor found him fondling her stepson in September. The teen pleaded guilty to five counts, including aggravated sexual assault and indecency by contact, and a jury decided his punishment.

Lamar County Judge Eric Clifford decided to stack the sentences against Hart after jurors settled on two five-year terms and three 30-year terms, The Dallas Morning News reported Wednesday. The judge said neither he nor jurors liked the idea of prison for Hart but they felt there was no other option. "In the state of Texas, there isn't a whole lot you can do with somebody like him," Clifford said.

Diagnosed as mentally disabled
Hart has an IQ of 47 and was diagnosed as mentally disabled as a child. He never learned to read or write and speaks unsteadily. Despite being a target of bullies, he was courteous, well-behaved and earned money by doing chores for neighbors, supporters said. His parents say he'd never acted out sexually.

"He couldn't understand the seriousness of what he did," said his father, Robert Hart. "I never dreamed they would think about sending him to prison. When they said 100 years — it was terror, pure terror, to me."

Jurors said they sent the judge notes during deliberations in February, asking about alternatives to prison, but didn't get a clear answer. They believed the judge would order concurrent sentences, jurors said.

District Attorney Gary Young said he sympathized with Hart's situation but stands by his decision to prosecute on five counts. Prosecutors commonly pursue several charges for a single incident to see which the jury will support.

Diversion program not an option
Young said a diversion program was not an option since the law doesn't allow that for serious felonies. "I hope people will remember he committed a violent sexual crime against a little boy," he said.

Hart's appellate attorney, David Pearson, said the court-appointed doctor did the bare minimum to assess competency and ran tests geared for mental illness, not mental retardation. He said an appeal will be filed.

 

[Betticus]

Someday there will be a case where someone gets life in prison for changing their babies diaper.

 

[MisterSir]

Lamar County Judge Eric Clifford decided to stack the sentences against Hart after jurors settled on two five-year terms and three 30-year terms, The Dallas Morning News reported Wednesday. The judge said neither he nor jurors liked the idea of prison for Hart but they felt there was no other option. "In the state of Texas, there isn't a whole lot you can do with somebody like him," Clifford said.

I...wow. There are no facilities anywhere in the entire nation that could possibly be used to house or rehabilitate or do something other than slam this kid with an IQ that genuinely is lower than the room temperature in prison for longer than the average person will ever live? Yeah. Nice job, udgey.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I...wow. There are no facilities anywhere in the entire nation that could possibly be used to house or rehabilitate or do something other than slam this kid with an IQ that genuinely is lower than the room temperature in prison for longer than the average person will ever live? Yeah. Nice job, udgey.

I thought it was ... interesting? ... that "The judge said neither he nor jurors liked the idea of prison," but he then decided to stack the sentences consecutively instead of concurrently (as the jurors apparently expected he would do). Of course, that would have *only* put this "violent miscreant" in jail for thirty years instead of a hundred. Got to keep the world safe from below-room temp IQs, you know.

 

[nh23]

I thought it was ... interesting? ... that "The judge said neither he nor jurors liked the idea of prison," but he then decided to stack the sentences consecutively instead of concurrently (as the jurors apparently expected he would do). Of course, that would have *only* put this "violent miscreant" in jail for thirty years instead of a hundred. Got to keep the world safe from below-room temp IQs, you know.

It's overkill, that's for sure. Although the fact remains that a child was hurt, and will probably suffer life long consequences from it. Question is can this man be taught the difference between right and wrong? If they tell him what he did was horribly wrong, will he never do it again? Or is he unable to comprehend that?

 

[lass714]

I agree with this, and I want to add that not all perps against children are pedophiles. Pedophiles are categorized by some as "preferential" vs "situational" offenders.

An example of a "situational" perp might be an older teen in a family that molests a younger sibling. The preference for young children has not been fully established in their makeup to the point that has becomes an obsession. Situational offenders do respond well to treatment and often can be rehabilitated while serving time for their crime under the right circumstances.

I am not defending the behavior just giving information to fill out the picture a bit more.

Shankara-I concur with you completely, you are absolutely correct concerning situational offenders. I had forgotten this aspect. I have a tendency to neglect to differentiate on the preferential vs situational as my contact is primarily with the preferential pedo, which results in my tunnel vision Thank you sir for the reminder.

 

[SimonBrooke]

It's overkill, that's for sure. Although the fact remains that a child was hurt, and will probably suffer life long consequences from it. Question is can this man be taught the difference between right and wrong? If they tell him what he did was horribly wrong, will he never do it again? Or is he unable to comprehend that?

Even if he can't, even if it's necessary to keep him away from children for the rest of his natural life, is prison a humane place to keep him? It seems to me that the measure of a civilised society is how it handles the really difficult cases like this. Of course, providing less punitive secure facilities is not going to come cheap.

 

[nh23]

Even if he can't, even if it's necessary to keep him away from children for the rest of his natural life, is prison a humane place to keep him? It seems to me that the measure of a civilised society is how it handles the really difficult cases like this. Of course, providing less punitive secure facilities is not going to come cheap.

No prison isn't, but if that's the case he needs to be somewhere where he doesn't have access to children. It's not acceptable to risk the lives of anymore children.

 

[lass714]

And at the opposite end of the spectrum:

Teen with 47 IQ gets 100 years in sex abuse case
Case stems from charges involving the fondling of a 6-year-old neighbor
updated 7:06 p.m. ET, Wed., June 10, 2009
PARIS, Texas - A teenager who has profound mental disabilities was sentenced to 100 years in prison after pleading guilty to charges in a sex abuse case involving his 6-year-old neighbor. Aaron Hart, 18, of Paris, was arrested and charged after a neighbor found him fondling her stepson in September. The teen pleaded guilty to five counts, including aggravated sexual assault and indecency by contact, and a jury decided his punishment.

I perceive this as a blantant display of injustice not only from the Victim vs. Accuser standpoint, but also any future cases of sexual assault against a child. The overzealous prosecutor and the judge who handed down this sentence should be removed from their positions. This is a mockery of the judical process as these 2 individuals set an example that serves as a hinderance for future sentencing guideline procedures When truly warranted the issuance of a severe sentence against a convicted offender will be nonexistent due to their own actions.

 

[neci]

Paris TX: Mentally retarded teen serving 100-year prison term for sex assault of boy
Paris, Texas, judge denies new trial to man with IQ of 47 who molested boy
Witnesses testify that Aaron Hart, 18, is mentally disabled
By Howard Witt
Tribune correspondent
April 8, 2009

PARIS, Texas — For more than six hours Tuesday, as a parade of witnesses testified about the severity of Aaron Hart's mental retardation and his inability to understand his legal rights, the 18-year-old defendant with an IQ of 47 sat silent and shackled in a chair, alternately fidgeting and making faces.But in the end, none of it was enough to persuade a judge in this small east Texas town to reconsider the 100-year prison sentence he gave Hart in February after Hart pleaded guilty to molesting a 6-year-old boy.Ruling in a case that critics of the local justice system say raises questions of fairness for the mentally challenged, Lamar County Judge Eric Clifford denied defense motions seeking either a new trial or a new sentencing hearing for Hart. His former special-education teacher testified that Hart functions below the level of a 1st grader. Last September, Hart confessed to police that he forced the boy to perform oral sex. The boy's stepmother had discovered them both behind a shed with their pants lowered. Hart's court-appointed attorney entered guilty pleas on his behalf to five related felony counts, a jury recommended multiple sentences and Clifford stacked the prison terms to run consecutively, for a total of 100 years.But Hart's appellate attorney, David Pearson, argued Tuesday that Hart had received ineffective legal assistance because his trial attorney had failed to present any expert testimony about Hart's mental functioning or his ability to comprehend the charges against him."This case cried out for a mental health evaluation, to explain this disability to the judge and jury," Pearson told Clifford. "One of the features of people with this kind of mental retardation is they cannot appreciate degrees of wrongfulness."District Atty. Gary Young countered that a court-appointed expert had determined that Hart was legally competent and that a jury had determined he was a danger to the community."Everyone feels sorry for Mr. Hart," Young told the judge. "The question is, do you leave him on the street or send him to prison?"Clifford, who last week said he had agonized over the case, took only a few seconds to issue his ruling."Irregardless of whether he understood his Miranda rights, the evidence I have seen is overwhelming that he committed the offense," Clifford said. "The court finds that allegations of incompetence of counsel are unfounded."Hart will remain in jail pending the outcome of an appeal likely to be heard in the fall. Hart's parents say he has been raped repeatedly by other inmates since he was first arrested last September.



Copyright © 2009, Chicago Tribune

 

[neci]

okay... so i have been following this thread since it started, and have been trying to figure out whether or not i should post... so, here... *getting out soap box*

the judge in Oklahoma is a piece of shit, small town, good old boy. i have the same sentiments for the judge in Paris. Aggravated sexual assault against a child is a horrible crime that goes under prosecuted in the majority of cities and towns across this nation. Most cases of sexual assault do not even make it off the DA's desk to be presented to a grand jury. the majority of counties in texas and oklahoma do not have trained SANE nurses in their local hospitals to preform sexual assault examinations on victims. Victims must be taken (sometimes several hours away) to larger hospitals where they are essentially raped again by the nurses who have the emotionally taxing job of collecting evidence from the victim. if there are no rips, tears or fresh DNA evidence, the exam is labeled "no findings." the child victim is also taken (hopefully) to a Children's Advocacy Center, where a professional trained working with child victims interviews the child to see if the child makes an outcry. the child relives the abuse as they tell their story - if they don't completely shut down. The outcry is video taped so that the child only has to tell the story once, so officials such as the PD and child welfare agencies do not have to repeatedly interview the child. this is the beginning. The police department submits their report to the district attorney, and the waiting begins.

Many times, it is years before the rapist actually has their day in court - unless of course the media hears about the case, and it is put on the fast track. By the time a trial rolls around, the perp has been walking the streets with no conviction, no sex offender registration, with easy access to small children. i don't know how many perps i have heard of that look for single working mothers with young children. they enter the mom's life under the guise of the knight in shining armor, and they leave - having stolen the innocence of the children and the trust of the mother.
the scariest thing to me, is that for every individual listed on sex offender websites, there are 50 or more who are not. in my personal opinion, pedophilia is an addiction, similar to a crack addiction. Even after sex offender treatment, the individual must be able to stay away from their drug of choice - kids. How many times does an alcoholic or crack addict relapse before they are clean forever? How many times do you hear of the meth addict coming out of rehab, staying clean for several months, then going back "just one last time." With serial sex offenders the same is true. No matter how long they stay "clean" there is always the high chance that they will one day re offend (aka rape another child.)

Wow... so other than kicking someone's ass, what is the solution? unfortunately we can not depend on the "justice" system for justice in the cases of the thousands of children who will never get their day in court. it ultimately falls onto parents to care for and protect their children to the best of their ability. if the unthinkable happens - and a child is hurt - it needs to be reported ASAP, and the child needs to be put in therapy with an individual who is sensitive to the needs of child victims. there is federal money under VOCA (victims of crime act) to pay for expenses related to a crime that was committed against an individual. this includes counseling, medications, medical equipment, etc.
i could go on more, but i think that i am going to step down from my soap box now and go outside to play.

 

[Shankara20]

i could go on more, but i think that i am going to step down from my soap box now and go outside to play.

Very well stated. Your SANE information supports my experiences as well.

Perps depend on a "normal medical exam" to keep themselves for jail. They know exactly what they are doing and how to do it this child victims so there is little or now evidence.

The stats I have seen show that when arrested for one victim, preferential child molesters have had 117 other victims - not 117 sex acts, 117 victims.

 

[Shankara20]

Shankara-I concur with you completely, you are absolutely correct concerning situational offenders. I had forgotten this aspect. I have a tendency to neglect to differentiate on the preferential vs situational as my contact is primarily with the preferential pedo, which results in my tunnel vision Thank you sir for the reminder.

On problem - when working directly with such a population it is easy to develop that tunnel vision.

 

[Tawny_Temptress]

Some folks just need killing!