On Story Scores

[Etaski]

I'd be curious about that as well, Feotakahari, but only more on an academic level than to decide where to post a story.

Really, never mind all the vampire and werewolf stories...where does your story fit best?

Technically for Sci-Fi/Fantasy, at least part of the story should take place somewhere other than Earth or the modern day.

For Non-Human, it'll more often than not be our world and modern day.

Which legitimately fits best?

(I like demon stories. I might have to check it out.)

 

[Darkniciad]

I wouldn't go so far as to restrict Sci-Fi&Fantasy to "other worlds". Even though a primary character in each story of my Magic of the Wood series is technically non-human due to having nymph blood, I go with Sci-Fi&Fantasy rather than non-human most of the time.

The characters in question only have a few non-human traits: sparse/no body hair, greatly slowed aging, and just a little more sensitivity to the flow of energy in the world. While their heritage is usually important to the story, I just feel as if they're too close to human to really qualify for that more specific category.

If the story involves a primary character who is 100% nymph, I go with non-human. In my mythos, those characters are visibly non-human: green hair, impossible skin tones/patterns. They also have magical abilities to heal, move incredible distances in the blink of any eye, vanish into foliage instantly, so on and so forth.

A full nymph character usually shows up in every story as well, but if she's not a primary character and involved in the sex of the story, it doesn't count to me.

Really, these stories are set in "another world" as time more or less stops in a parallel of our modern era, even though these kids keep growing up and getting stories of their own. I should probably have everyone tooling around in solar-powered flying Jetson cars by now, if I was trying to keep up a logical time progression.

Let alone the fact there are nymphs with magical powers hiding out in pockets of nature around the world.

Taking the character's bloodline and the context of the timeline out, the world around them is "ours" though. Characters face the threat of having to move away from lovers to Florida. They go on vacation in the BWCA of Minnesota.

To me, it's more about the primary characters and how non-human they are than the setting.

 

[Etaski]

In that case, Mr. Dark, I also have a question on story categorization (other opinions welcome also).

Suppose there is a story that has a lot of weird, bizarre elements and something of a chase scene that's frightening at least for the protagonist (Erotic Horror?), but it's overall an erotic, very light-hearted story involving a woman and a definitely-not-human (Non-Human?). Moreso, "it" has been designed and grown for particular functions within a futuristic world that contains alien races (Sci-Fi...?).

Where would the story fit best? I suppose then Feotakahari has a point: we might be considering the audience here on Lit...

The problems for this story:

Erotic Horror fans are well-known to know what they like, and only a small portion of this story is based on fear, at least until the protagonist overcomes it. Then I'd call it more "erotic coupling."

Non-Human....well, it's weird and bizarre and may not mingle well with the current readers (though it might have 7 years ago). But also, while the world is actually not Earth, there is plenty of overlap and familiar things for the reader to grasp.

Sci-Fi: the futuristic world fits, and the creature is man-made and quite a scientific achievement, actually... but the story itself is simply an erotic story that almost "demonstrates" the workings of the creature in a strictly erotic sense, and has a very small focus and doesn't expand to explore more of that world.

As a reader of all three categories...I'm not sure where I'd respond best to this story. And I wrote the damned thing!

 

[Darkniciad]

Seems like the story is tightly focused on the non-human character to me. Don't underestimate the number of readers in the non-human category who are happy ( even overjoyed ) to see something other than a vampire/werewolf story.

There's a lot of overlap between Sci-Fi & Fantasy and Non-Human readers. I think it would do well in either category, but in my opinion, Non-Human is the place for this one due to the concentration on that character.

I would certainly not put it in Erotic Horror. The core readership there expects dark stories that don't end well for the protagonists. There's some dilution with the sexy vampire crowd, but they're beginning to migrate to Non-Human now that authors are choosing that category more often for the much larger readership.

As that continues, EH will go more and more back to its roots. Authors like Manyeyedhydra are helping with that transition by frequent production of stories more in line with the core horror fans, and even helping to maintain the readership as the sexy vampire crowd moves to NH.

 

[Etaski]

Okay, I appreciate the thoughts, and that feels about right to me. If there was a broader scope, I'd put it in Sci-Fi, but there's not and I know that. My hesitation with Non-Human was the conflabberghastid amount of sexy-vamp/werewolf stories which I really don't enjoy that much.

But...so be it. If it shoe fits....

The only thing that confused me about "Erotic Horror" was that one of my favorite stories is in that category, but it doesn't have a "bad" ending in any way, and there's not even truly much injury or fear. There was scientific curiosity, daring, and compassion. It was "Full Moon Rut" by SolitaryHawk (http://www.literotica.com/s/full-moon-rut).

It was a werewolf story from 2004 (pre-Twilight) and much more to my taste--I'd even call it one of the inspiring sources for the current story I'm dithering about here. Erotic Horror, though? Well, not by the standards I keep hearing about now...but it's been 7 years so I can grant that things have since developed a wee bit.

 

[Darkniciad]

For a long time, almost all the vampire and werewolf stories were ending up in Erotic Horror. Non-human was primarily creatures without a scary factor, such as nymphs, or possibly scary creatures such as ghosts in stories with no scare factor.

There was a rebellion amongst horror fans, and an effort to discourage more stories ending up there with low votes and snide commentary. A couple of authors such as Daniellekitten went with the Non-human category for Were stories, and the popularity of those authors pulled the readers and a lot of other authors with them. The category proved a far better place for those stories anyway, with an established readership that welcomed the stories, and a larger reader base overall.

So, 2006 with a + or - spread of a couple of years, you're likely to find a lot of vampire and werewolf stories that don't end badly in EH.

 

[lovecraft68]

For a long time, almost all the vampire and werewolf stories were ending up in Erotic Horror. Non-human was primarily creatures without a scary factor, such as nymphs, or possibly scary creatures such as ghosts in stories with no scare factor.

There was a rebellion amongst horror fans, and an effort to discourage more stories ending up there with low votes and snide commentary. A couple of authors such as Daniellekitten went with the Non-human category for Were stories, and the popularity of those authors pulled the readers and a lot of other authors with them. The category proved a far better place for those stories anyway, with an established readership that welcomed the stories, and a larger reader base overall.

So, 2006 with a + or - spread of a couple of years, you're likely to find a lot of vampire and werewolf stories that don't end badly in EH.

What was the rebellion? They didn't want Vampire/werewolf stories in EH? Or was it Horror purists who were bombing the "newer" version of the sexy/sensitive type vampire/werewolf that's been big the last few years?

Is Non-human the "PC" version of EH? Who would have thought an erotic site would have "factions" but I guess they do.

 

[Etaski]

What was the rebellion? They didn't want Vampire/werewolf stories in EH? Or was it Horror purists who were bombing the "newer" version of the sexy/sensitive type vampire/werewolf that's been big the last few years?

I wasn't there, but I'm almost certain it is the Horror purists who were protesting the "Nerfed" vamps and werewolves. Frankly, that's my beef with Twilight as well. There's nothing to fear in those versions, they're emo and ridiculous, and they don't even make any sense. They're humans pretending to be horrors.

Is Non-human the "PC" version of EH? Who would have thought an erotic site would have "factions" but I guess they do.

I think it's less the erotic part as it is the mythos part. I wouldn't call it a "Golden Age" for some horror creatures right now.

 

[lovecraft68]

I wasn't there, but I'm almost certain it is the Horror purists who were protesting the "Nerfed" vamps and werewolves. Frankly, that's my beef with Twilight as well. There's nothing to fear in those versions, they're emo and ridiculous, and they don't even make any sense. They're humans pretending to be horrors.


I think it's less the erotic part as it is the mythos part. I wouldn't call it a "Golden Age" for some horror creatures right now.

I agree. I personally hate Anne Rice's pussy vampires and the Twilighter's are even worse. But commercially they are making a killing so hence all the copy cats cluttering up books and the stories here.

I am old school, I like the Brian Lumley Wamphyrie vampires. Pure death and destruction, so yeah a purist I guess.

You make a great point about them being human pretending to be horrors. My point further up is that the crowd that follows any type of commercially successful trend is an easy audience to make happy.

Authors like Jaz Cullen who have been writing these for awhile are good writers with very good stories. They were here for the beginning of this trend they will be here when is fades as will a portion of their audience. But right now many authors are jumping the bandwagon, spitting out formula stories and raking in the scores.

Want to win a contest? Go with an NH theme. Want to win a monthly? Go NH and make it several chapters. That's the trend for the last few months. A year from now it may be very different.

And no offense to the decent authors in that category, but they are being flooded with "Yay! Vampires" crowd and the scores reflect it.

 

[Darkniciad]

What was the rebellion? They didn't want Vampire/werewolf stories in EH? Or was it Horror purists who were bombing the "newer" version of the sexy/sensitive type vampire/werewolf that's been big the last few years?

Purists. A lot of authors for several years there were simply equating horror with monsters, not realizing that there was a category better suited to stories about monsters without horror. The core readership let them know in no uncertain terms.

In the end, I don't think they really succeeded. It was the stronger numbers generation in Non-Human that really caused the migration of these stories more than anything. Even before the explosion of vampire/werewolf popularity, Non-Human had stronger numbers.

And no offense to the decent authors in that category, but they are being flooded with "Yay! Vampires" crowd and the scores reflect it.

The categories have always scored higher. The explosion of the sub-genre has nothing to do with it. What's kicked up are the number of votes, views, comments, and favorites. The scores -- if anything -- are lower now than they used to be.

At one point, you couldn't get on page 1 of either toplist with anything less than a 4.95

 

[ScouriesWorld]

A couple of days ago when I ran the numbers for the boss I found the following:

In the previous 30 days there had been 201 Non-Human and Sci-Fi stories put up on LITEROTICA.

185 OF THEM (92+%) were rated over four - ie between Really liked it - good read and Loved it - one of the best.

The 185 had a median score of about 4.70. Which means that 70+% of the votes cast for these 185 stories rated them One of the Best!

Even for the NH/SF crowd you'd think there would be some discernment wouldn't you?

Has the "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" culture become so prevelant in these categories that the scores are now virtually useless as a measuring stick for our readers?

It's time the QUEEN introduced the FOUR C's before the whole contest system becomes a laughingstock.​

 

[ScouriesWorld]

whats wrong with a little integrity db?

The scores -- if anything -- are lower now than they used to be.

Well it looks like darkboy is going to end the year like he started it - more lies!

We can only hope that he makes a New Years resolution (and keeps it!) to be more honest in the future.

FYI - owlwhisper's groundbreaking study showed that up until 2008 Sci Fi stories had a median score of 4.56 and NH ones 4.50.

The most recent figures (last thirty days) are 4.61 and 4.62 respectively. Hard to describe these numbers as lower unless you live in some darkboyian universe.

Lets just hope he doesn't graph it for us!

And this increase in NH and SF scores has occurred while median scores in other categories have fallen dramatically, further widening the gap between reality and non human.​

 

[lovecraft68]

Purists. A lot of authors for several years there were simply equating horror with monsters, not realizing that there was a category better suited to stories about monsters without horror. The core readership let them know in no uncertain terms.

In the end, I don't think they really succeeded. It was the stronger numbers generation in Non-Human that really caused the migration of these stories more than anything. Even before the explosion of vampire/werewolf popularity, Non-Human had stronger numbers.



The categories have always scored higher. The explosion of the sub-genre has nothing to do with it. What's kicked up are the number of votes, views, comments, and favorites. The scores -- if anything -- are lower now than they used to be.

At one point, you couldn't get on page 1 of either toplist with anything less than a 4.95

When you say "categories" are you speaking of EH, as well as NH? For some reason I find it hard to believe EH was seeing 4.95's. Actually in my time (so a short time compared to you) I can't recall a story in any category I've looked at having a 4.95. Maybe that was before sweeps were knocking out suspicious 5 votes as well as one bombs.

Anyway it's all good. Everyone has their own take on things. And seeing we have now drawn the attention of the NH/ sci fi categories biggest detractor I think its time to let it drop. All chance of a reasonable discussion has now fled the building.

 

[Darkniciad]

When you say "categories" are you speaking of EH, as well as NH? For some reason I find it hard to believe EH was seeing 4.95's. Actually in my time (so a short time compared to you) I can't recall a story in any category I've looked at having a 4.95. Maybe that was before sweeps were knocking out suspicious 5 votes as well as one bombs.

Anyway it's all good. Everyone has their own take on things. And seeing we have now drawn the attention of the NH/ sci fi categories biggest detractor I think its time to let it drop. All chance of a reasonable discussion has now fled the building.

No, not EH. It always had lower scores. I'm talking about Sci-Fi&Fantasy and Non-Human.

It was back a few years, before the introduction of the new star-based voting. Back then, there were even fewer people voting, and they were mostly the extremes. Damn near everything was a 5 from fans or a 1 from detractors. The dynamics of how troll votes are limited in the categories and how the lower vote totals make the sweeps more effective there kept the stories on the high end of an even higher scale.

Yeah, the delusional one is once again completely missing the point of the discussion. His limited reading comprehension probably has something to do with why his stories are so full of plot holes and continuity errors. I'm talking about the first page of the toplists, and he's babbling about averages

Is he seriously trying to pretend that comparing the averages of stories from the last 30 days to the averages of every story posted for a decade has any point whatsoever? LMAO Talk about comparing apples to road apples.

 

[Thistlethorn]

Weighing in on NH

Here I thought I was doing so good and now I come to find out I was posting in a soft category. I'm devastated. OK, maybe not...

I do want to make a comment on the non-human category. I haven't posted much, but the largest story I've posted is a multi-chapter piece featuring Chinese dragons. I didn't chose this subject matter because I want to hump giant snakes. Really. I wrote on the subject matter because all folklore/mythology is fascinating to me, Asian, European, or Indigenous Peoples. I can prattle on for hours about the difference between a myth and a fairy tale, much to the chagrin of my few remaining friends.

And a recurrent theme is erotica with non-human characters. The beastly bride/groom stories as an example. Then there's also the fact that both the Chinese and Japanese imperial lines claimed descent from dragons. You can also find European families that claim descent from dragons, even after the coming of Christianity. In India it was nagas. Many Native tribes teach that their particular lineage was founded by an animal. It's a recurrent motif, and it's one I tend to use.

Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a category for the modern wonder-tale. Fantasy, as has been stated previously, is more of the another land, far-far-away, or high fantasy in the style of Lord of the Rings. But for the more urban fantasy, or mytho-poetic, or magic realism, NH seems to be the better choice.

Now, I'm inclined to agree that the over abundance of vampire/werewolf is tiresome. But even so, some of it is extremely well done. I haven't read much of Jaz Cullen, but what I have I've liked. I think she's very good.

Now, I understand that not everybody is going to dig on it. That's cool. But to suggest that all NH is is bestiality dressed up to get past the guidelines is unfair, IMHO. That's the same as suggesting all Non Compliance/Reluctance is read by wanna be rapists, or that all incest is wanna be molesters. Does that element exist? Undoubtedly, on all three categories. But it's not the sum of the category. Just my two cents.

 

[lovecraft68]

Here I thought I was doing so good and now I come to find out I was posting in a soft category. I'm devastated. OK, maybe not...

I do want to make a comment on the non-human category. I haven't posted much, but the largest story I've posted is a multi-chapter piece featuring Chinese dragons. I didn't chose this subject matter because I want to hump giant snakes. Really. I wrote on the subject matter because all folklore/mythology is fascinating to me, Asian, European, or Indigenous Peoples. I can prattle on for hours about the difference between a myth and a fairy tale, much to the chagrin of my few remaining friends.

And a recurrent theme is erotica with non-human characters. The beastly bride/groom stories as an example. Then there's also the fact that both the Chinese and Japanese imperial lines claimed descent from dragons. You can also find European families that claim descent from dragons, even after the coming of Christianity. In India it was nagas. Many Native tribes teach that their particular lineage was founded by an animal. It's a recurrent motif, and it's one I tend to use.

Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a category for the modern wonder-tale. Fantasy, as has been stated previously, is more of the another land, far-far-away, or high fantasy in the style of Lord of the Rings. But for the more urban fantasy, or mytho-poetic, or magic realism, NH seems to be the better choice.

Now, I'm inclined to agree that the over abundance of vampire/werewolf is tiresome. But even so, some of it is extremely well done. I haven't read much of Jaz Cullen, but what I have I've liked. I think she's very good.

Now, I understand that not everybody is going to dig on it. That's cool. But to suggest that all NH is is bestiality dressed up to get past the guidelines is unfair, IMHO. That's the same as suggesting all Non Compliance/Reluctance is read by wanna be rapists, or that all incest is wanna be molesters. Does that element exist? Undoubtedly, on all three categories. But it's not the sum of the category. Just my two cents.

In the old days in Europe when witches spoke of Black Masses and the events that took place in them, different Sabbats called for different sexual perversions. On one night it would be homosexuality, another sex with people dressed up to represent Christ and the Mother Mary, on another night. "Bestiality or and I am quoting "Sex with Dragons" Just putting that out there as a fun thought for you.

Now as poorly masked bestiality? Okay, I joke around about this to stir the pot but let's be logical. follow my progression.

Now every cate is a kink or fetish. Incest, group, crossdressers, all the many fetishes in fetish, and non con, BDSM they are all things that get people going.

Now just because you have a kink does not mean you will act on it. But it does mean it sexually excites you. Hence Kink. Many read incest, but would never commit it and non con is for people with rape fantasies, but they would not commit it either.

Still following? Let's break it down.

Incest. You read stories about brother/ sister mother/son etc.. you have an incest kink. Yes? Yes.

Non consent reluctance, very rough forced sex. You have rape fantasies or a rape kink it gets you hot. Yes? Yes.

Interracial. Women.men read stories about having sex with other ethnic groups they have a kink for black or Asian or Spanish whatever yes? Yes.

Someone reads a story about a half human half animal or mythical furry animal having sex with a human they have a bestiality kink. It gets them hot yes?
NO!!!! NO!!!! No!!!!

That's what I get. Why? I know cause they don;t exist. If a woman fucks a horse its bestiality. If they fuck a horse with a horn (a unicorn) that is nothing like Bestiality!

Please are we really going to keep deluding ourselves. Give me a break.
Simply put, if it is furry and it is fucking a human and you are stroking to it you have a beastie kink.

I'm not saying anyone would act on it, and go fuck a dog, but its in there and I think its sad no one can admit it.

Lets do another example let's take some classic "creatures" Minotaur, Centaur, Satyr. Half bull half horse half goat.''In all traditional renderings let me ask you, where is the animal half? The top? Nope The business end baby!
The centaur has himself a horse cock yes he does.

But hey, I'm reasonable. Give me an argument why its not other than "centaurs and Unicorns don;t exist"

If I created a 12 year old girl named "Anita little brothers cocktosuck" she doesn't exist, but I can't write about her cause its under age. Nothing really exists in fiction but there are rules.

So go ahead, and put it out there, Tell me why fucking a two headed dog is nothing like fucking my German shepard.

Or Grow a pair and proudly say "Yes I have a beastie kink so fucking what?"

Hypocrisy and denial are very ugly emotions.

And know what? I don;t judge, wanna fuck an ogre go for it. In fact here are some fun visuals to go along with every ones favorite category!

BTW notice most of the videos seem rape related. Another kink never admitted too.

http://www.freemonsterporn.com/?t=redtubetower

 

[Etaski]

Ohhh, dear Thistlethorn, welcome, and in case you aren't sure, you've hit on one of Mr. Lovecraft's particular hot-debate-buttons.

I look at Greek Mythology as well (helllloooo, Non-Human!) and do see your point and his. I also look at a lot of different kinds of anthropomorphism (humanized creatures/animals) and notice different slants of all of them.

Like rape/force fantasies have a lot of different flavors (will, strength, trickery, opportunity), so do Non-Human.

Take it that there's no convincing Mr. LC of anything other than what he says on this particular topic and consider it a good show. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[sr71plt]

I think writing of Oriental dragons and nonhuman mythology of the East is a great idea for erotica--and an unusual, fresh one for this collection. I write of the ancient Orient--haven't done so with nonhuman myths, though. Will have to look for your stories.

The nonhuman category is a goldmine one with very few limits and vast opportunities for creativity and imagination. Don't let the blinder-perspective lunkheads define your limits for you.

 

[LordMhoram]

...Don't underestimate the number of readers in the non-human category who are happy ( even overjoyed ) to see something other than a vampire/werewolf story.

*raising hand* "Yep".

 

[lovecraft68]

I think writing of Oriental dragons and nonhuman mythology of the East is a great idea for erotica--and an unusual, fresh one for this collection. I write of the ancient Orient--haven't done so with nonhuman myths, though. Will have to look for your stories.

The nonhuman category is a goldmine one with very few limits and vast opportunities for creativity and imagination. Don't let the blinder-perspective lunkheads define your limits for you.

Not shorting the authors/stories or potential.

Just calling out the Kink.

And I agree that the east has some of the most interesting-and most ancient-myths,

Somehow the Greeks and Romans hog all the glory. Although I am partial to Norse myself. Now Fafnir was a Dragon.

Oh, and seeing you are so intelligent provide my answer.

 

[Thistlethorn]

I can't speak as to why anybody else reads/writes non-human, and I'm not about to say everybody/nobody who reads a certain category has one kink or another. I can only say why I write it. What I find attractive is the sense of wonder itself. The kink, at least for me, is the supernatural, the magic inherent in mythology/folklore. In the oriental dragon series there were five sex scenes in a story that ran seventeen chapters and an epilogue. What mattered to me was the story. I know there's non-human stroke and it doesn't do much for me. Not knocking it, just not my kink as it were. I suspect you're not going to believe this, which is a pity. I think the discussion of an idea or symbolism as inherently erotic as opposed to just the mechanics is interesting and has merit.

The problem with the historical accounts of black masses is a lot of the information was obtained under torture and isn't very reliable. That some of what you described happened I don't doubt, but I suspect some of it was jaded, drunken aristocracy being edgy. As to what actually happened in either pre-Christian witchcraft/paganism or medieval satanism, it's nearly impossible to say. The historical record was largely set by the very group trying to lump together and discredit both groups.

 

[Feotakahari]

I just like seeing authors do something different, and I like doing something different when I write. Way too many stories on this site are about middle-class white people, and Sci-Fi is the section where I find the most stories about people and creatures that aren't middle-class whites. (Nonhuman mostly has middle-class whites having sex with creatures that aren't middle-class whites, but that's halfway to progress, I suppose.)

(Come to think of it, maybe I should read more in Interracial. I've been somewhat put off by the blatantly stereotypical things I've heard racial fetishists say, but an author who uses the category rather than letting the category use him or her should be able to do good things with culture clash.)

Edit: I suppose I should disclose that I also have a nonsexual interest in writing nonhuman or highly unusual human psychology. (This is why I tend to get accused of being a furry--I get drawn into a story that portrays a part-human part-animal who thinks in a part-human part-animal fashion, and I wind up trying to discuss it with people who're into part-human part-animal physiology instead of psychology.)

 

[sr71plt]

I just like seeing authors do something different, and I like doing something different when I write.

Amen to that. I try for the unusual settings and situations myself. I don't write much nonhuman, though.

 

[Andromeda7]

this thread caught my interest because of the reference to tvtropes.

i rate this thread 8.8

same.

Fascinating thread and I'm not a third of the way through yet.

A question that I hope is not off topic; I am new here and with a little tongue in cheek ask if the trolls and anonymous are related.

More seriously can some one fill me in a bit with a troll description as they feature so much in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[sr71plt]

same.

Fascinating thread and I'm not a third of the way through yet.

A question that I hope is not off topic; I am new here and with a little tongue in cheek ask if the trolls and anonymous are related.

More seriously can some one fill me in a bit with a troll description as they feature so much in this thread.

Thanks.

The individual's definition here of "troll" can run anywhere from someone the individual doesn't like to hear anything from, whether anonymous or named, to a poster, whether anonymous or named, who posts mean-spirited comments/attacks/harrassment just to get a rise and without any known connection to the story or any know "truth" about the person being attacked. So, you have plenty of room to form your own definitions.