Penetration and D/s

[Homburg]

If that's not a power trip, I don't know what is. I think orgasm is a particularly non-empowered moment if you want to pick something to focus on.

I've come to the conclusion that my cock is convinced of this as well. Orgasm means not fully, brutally empowered, so it is to be avoided until the very last possible second.

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however i disagree about the idea of a mouth being this potentially hazardous zone for a cock. true, a suckee with ill intent and given free reign of motion could bite and injure the heck out of a penis. but by taking such an action, you are facing the risk of receiving some pretty hellacious and violent male testosterone-driven retribution. i know that if a female were to seriously bite my Master's cock, his first reflex would be to knock her out flat with a solid punch to the side of the head. his second reflex would be "damn, ouch" that's just him, fight back first, feel the pain later. i'm guessing other men with any significant levels of testosterone would react similarly. so yeah, go ahead and bite if you dare.

Okay, so drunk head is a bad idea. I was getting head from a drunk woman in a bathroom (Yes, so very classy, I know), and she accidentally bit me. Instant, unthinking reaction was a slap to the head. Not a gentle correction either. I would've felt bad, but, at that moment, "BITCH BIT MY DICK!" was all that was going on in my mind.

That said, I don't particularly like blowjobs. I enjoy the emotional and mental perks of cock worship, but I don't really get into the physical sensations of a blow job.

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TY - ok, live Dominant male. Question: is there a methodology and an attitude that a woman could bring to "getting fucked" that does not satisfy your dominance, and would not even if you could beat the living crap out of her with impunity because - it's HER. HER not-submissive coming to the table.

Yes, very easily. JMohegan mentioned some good examples. Apathy/ not being mentally present is a big one for me. I have to have involvement and engagement.

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Netz, you mentioned orgasm being a non-empowered moment. i would agree, but in a different way. many Dominants, male and female, feel quite the power rush from forcibly bringing a sexual partner to orgasm, having that person quiver and throb in an uncontrolled release. sort of a "see? see what i've done to you?"

This is essentially how I view it.

it could be my subbie wiring or just the fact that i'm incredibly weird, but i view the male orgasm as a moment of raw primal, blind male energy. when a man, no matter how vanilla, no matter how submissive (i've been with a few), is fucking me, and on that drive to climax, for those moments when he is climbing to that peak and for those moments when he finally reaches it, i'm always a little afraid. just because i know that he is completely out of control for those 20, 30, 40 seconds..he is not thinking about me or my pussy. he's just doing what he must, spreading the seed. then, once it's over, he comes back to himself and all is normal again. "normal" could be every bit as self-focused and dominant as he was while cumming, or "normal" could be some guy who's as submissive as i am, and looking at me with concern and guilt, "i'm sorry, i didn't hurt you did i?"

Eh, very rarely do I have the sort of orgasm when I am not still thinking, performing, controlling. Admittedly, I have issues.

 

[Netzach]

Eh, very rarely do I have the sort of orgasm when I am not still thinking, performing, controlling. Admittedly, I have issues.

I've fucked guys like that, but only one time and that's it. It's what I was saying about "could a woman you penetrate not bring enough sub juice to the table" from my side. Inability to really release that way and...allow me....is an active turnoff to me. Like bleh, badsex.

No offense, of course.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Eh, very rarely do I have the sort of orgasm when I am not still thinking, performing, controlling.

LOL, it has been a long, long time (like 35 years) since I have been with a man who is not cognitively engaged during orgasm...perhaps it is the men I choose to engage in such activities with.

Catalina

 

[Homburg]

I've fucked guys like that, but only one time and that's it. It's what I was saying about "could a woman you penetrate not bring enough sub juice to the table" from my side. Inability to really release that way and...allow me....is an active turnoff to me. Like bleh, badsex.

No offense, of course.

None taken at all. While I like the ability to control when and where I come, and how long I want to go, it can be bloody annoying at times, as my cock most assuredly does not listen to me all the time. Nor even much of the time. One of the reasons I'm cognitively engaged, to use Cat's terminology, is that I am managing my own arousal as much a sI am managing hers. We all remember the Ask HC thread, tight? Well, sometimes those conversations are damned close to what is happening in my head.

I can certainly see how that would be bad sex for someone of your tastes and predilections. I just don' thave a "relax and let it all out" function. Hell, even when deep in the throes of swedish muscle stripping massage, I'm still perfectly awake and aware, and all that. I just don't relax mentally.

Did I mention that I might come once or twice in a year's time from fellatio? Same reason. Can't let go. It almost always happens the same way - driving, long road trip, nowhere to stop and just fuck, and I'm wound up as hell because I'm inevitably playing with her while we drive. I might, MIGHT, be able to get off from road head that way. And I'm sure the very real and explicit danger of driving while getting my dick sucked has something to do with it. Yay for fucked up wiring.

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LOL, it has been a long, long time (like 35 years) since I have been with a man who is not cognitively engaged during orgasm...perhaps it is the men I choose to engage in such activities with.

Catalina

I can't imagine being any other way. And while I demand cognition and involvement from my partner during sex, I don't mind if she drifts off due to orgasms, sensation, subspace, etc. Well, until I want her to be present again for whatever whim.

 

[cherokee_dove]

Can you be a Dominant person, and enjoy being penetrated? Absolutely, why not, it may be all about sensation, as you say. However during those moments of penetration, are you actively dominant right then and there at that moment? That's all i'm talking about here, moments. the vibe during the act of penetration itself, not anything outside of or around it.

From my own experience, as a sub; if i knew he liked having his ass fingered, while He was deep throating me; and i start playing with his ass; he took on the stance and grabbed my hair, yanking it harder; shoving his cock further into my throat further and harder. And him yelling..."Yes bitch, you know what i like; do it!"

He is still dominating me, because as a sub; i know what gave him pleasure and what would be his trigger points to make the domination even more extreme.

So, he was still in the dominating position; just enjoying his own pleasures a little bit more.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can't imagine being any other way. And while I demand cognition and involvement from my partner during sex, I don't mind if she drifts off due to orgasms, sensation, subspace, etc. Well, until I want her to be present again for whatever whim.

Ditto, though I also am not one to wander off mind wise during orgasm. Seem to have some inbuilt thing which demands I remain aware of my surroundings at all times...perhaps this is one of the reasons I do not go into subspace.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

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Okay, so drunk head is a bad idea. I was getting head from a drunk woman in a bathroom (Yes, so very classy, I know), and she accidentally bit me. Instant, unthinking reaction was a slap to the head. Not a gentle correction either. I would've felt bad, but, at that moment, "BITCH BIT MY DICK!" was all that was going on in my mind.

That said, I don't particularly like blowjobs. I enjoy the emotional and mental perks of cock worship, but I don't really get into the physical sensations of a blow job.

*sound of rush hour traffic from the beltway to bombay suddenly screeching to a halt, causing crushed bumpers, mangled rickshaws, and skyrocketing insurance rates the world over*....umm...what??! did you just say that you don't like blowjobs? no sucky sucky?? then pray tell kind Sir, what on earth can a nonorgasmic, bondage-phobic deepthroating cockworshipping subbie slave type do to seduce you???!!

errr um..."you" being general of course...

 

[BiBunny]

I can kinda see both sides of this. To be honest, though, it feels so good to either penetrate or be penetrated that I don't put a lot of thought into who's dominant and who's not in the heat of the moment.

 

[Homburg]

*sound of rush hour traffic from the beltway to bombay suddenly screeching to a halt, causing crushed bumpers, mangled rickshaws, and skyrocketing insurance rates the world over*....umm...what??! did you just say that you don't like blowjobs? no sucky sucky?? then pray tell kind Sir, what on earth can a nonorgasmic, bondage-phobic deepthroating cockworshipping subbie slave type do to seduce you???!!

errr um..."you" being general of course...

Darlin, I like having ye olde knobbe worshipped. The physical side is just low importance compared tp the mental and emotional side. My cock may be somewhat blase about it, but _I_ like wrapping my fist in her hair and ramming my cock solidly into her mouth. I like standing there looking smug as she is on her knees bobbing up and down. I _like_ that, I'm just not likely to come.

Fellatio = foreplay

 

[Netzach]

Darlin, I like having ye olde knobbe worshipped. The physical side is just low importance compared tp the mental and emotional side. My cock may be somewhat blase about it, but _I_ like wrapping my fist in her hair and ramming my cock solidly into her mouth. I like standing there looking smug as she is on her knees bobbing up and down. I _like_ that, I'm just not likely to come.

Fellatio = foreplay

OMG it's like we're supersecret brothers from another mother.

Except everyone thinks I SHOULD be getting off getting fucked and you SHOULD be getting off getting blown. Technicality. That's PIV fuck for me, except I can't quite be standing over him/her in the same position.

 

[midwestyankee]

OMG it's like we're supersecret brothers from another mother.

Except everyone thinks I SHOULD be getting off getting fucked and you SHOULD be getting off getting blown. Technicality. That's PIV fuck for me, except I can't quite be standing over him/her in the same position.

There are too damned many shoulds in this world and not enough enjoys.

 

[Homburg]

OMG it's like we're supersecret brothers from another mother.

Except everyone thinks I SHOULD be getting off getting fucked and you SHOULD be getting off getting blown. Technicality. That's PIV fuck for me, except I can't quite be standing over him/her in the same position.

Yup, I've thought before that my orgasm acts more like a woman's. It has to be the right place, the right time, I need foreplay, proper mood, I need stimulation in the right areas, at the proper pace, and sometimes the goddoamned thing just doesn't happen anyway.

 

[Netzach]

There are too damned many shoulds in this world and not enough enjoys.

I've never stuck around with someone who didn't appreciate the quirk. I'm fairly simple to get off, it's just not gonna happen like that. The assumption is that I have had some kind of hangup preventing me from fully exploring miss kitty - I've been poking around since a tender age. If fireworks were gonna happen, they'd have happened.

And now, for the same reasons that Homburg talks about - I *enjoy* my quirk, it really lets me watch, observe, go into I devour you headspace nicely. "Watch Observe" sounds too dispassionate, just not be swept up by orgasm, I guess is what I'm talking about.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Whos *ucking who?

don't ask what has caused my mind to go here today, but it's something i've felt strongly for a while now.

in sex, you have the penetrator, and the penetratee. in my view, the penetrator is the dominant partner, and the penetree the submissive partner...even if only for that brief moment of penetration. this is not about D/s philosophy or relationships, but more about the mechanics of sex.

once a person is penetrated, whether it's through force or allowance or even at their command, they are trusting (or fervently hoping, or naively confident and assured) someone to not completely ravage and abuse their tender delicate little hole. for those moments, they are at the mercy of that other person's passion, drive, self-control. there is a very basic, primal thing about penetration, it's more instinct than anything else...i would guess (and yes it is just a guess) that even the most submissive of men would momentarily be lost and consumed in the procreative drive while engaged in the act of penetrating another.

this also explains my views on beastiality: some human goes and pokes a female sheep, cow, pig, he's a sick animal abusing freak, put him under the jail for the next 10 yrs or so. some human gets poked by a horse, dog, donkey...as long as the animal wasn't trussed up and forced, i'm cool with it. rock on with your perv self. that is because imv, during the act the penetrator is in control to some degree, and the penetratee, to some degree...helpless.

online, i've run across some Dommes who claim not to ever allow themselves to be penetrated, for this reason. they feel it will take away something from their dominance, however temporarily. it is also why i could never imagine myself so much as placing a finger in a man's bum...even if it were under gunpoint and at his command, i'd feel that i'd be in some small way dominating him with my narrow little digit.

so what say you good folks? do you believe penetration has anything to do with dominance and submission? i'm especially interested in hearing opposing viewpoints, those who can reconcile being Dominant, and yet being penetrated...or being submissive, and yet being the penetrator.

The question is who is being served by penetrating, is the penatratee the top or bottom in the situation>>???

If i am a domme and i have the strange request of being shagged like a bond girl... and he is "service top"-ing me/ then he is still serving me though he is inserting his phallus, he is still serving....

 

[Netzach]

The question is who is being served by penetrating, is the penatratee the top or bottom in the situation>>???

If i am a domme and i have the strange request of being shagged like a bond girl... and he is "service top"-ing me/ then he is still serving me though he is inserting his fallace, he is still serving....

That's pretty concisely it.

 

[Homburg]

I've never stuck around with someone who didn't appreciate the quirk. I'm fairly simple to get off, it's just not gonna happen like that. The assumption is that I have had some kind of hangup preventing me from fully exploring miss kitty - I've been poking around since a tender age. If fireworks were gonna happen, they'd have happened.

And now, for the same reasons that Homburg talks about - I *enjoy* my quirk, it really lets me watch, observe, go into I devour you headspace nicely. "Watch Observe" sounds too dispassionate, just not be swept up by orgasm, I guess is what I'm talking about.

"Devour" is the exact word I used to describe what was goig to happen on a recent visit. Not in the same manner as you are using it precisely, but similar enough.

 

[graceanne]

don't ask what has caused my mind to go here today, but it's something i've felt strongly for a while now.

in sex, you have the penetrator, and the penetratee. in my view, the penetrator is the dominant partner, and the penetree the submissive partner...even if only for that brief moment of penetration. this is not about D/s philosophy or relationships, but more about the mechanics of sex.

once a person is penetrated, whether it's through force or allowance or even at their command, they are trusting (or fervently hoping, or naively confident and assured) someone to not completely ravage and abuse their tender delicate little hole. for those moments, they are at the mercy of that other person's passion, drive, self-control. there is a very basic, primal thing about penetration, it's more instinct than anything else...i would guess (and yes it is just a guess) that even the most submissive of men would momentarily be lost and consumed in the procreative drive while engaged in the act of penetrating another.

this also explains my views on beastiality: some human goes and pokes a female sheep, cow, pig, he's a sick animal abusing freak, put him under the jail for the next 10 yrs or so. some human gets poked by a horse, dog, donkey...as long as the animal wasn't trussed up and forced, i'm cool with it. rock on with your perv self. that is because imv, during the act the penetrator is in control to some degree, and the penetratee, to some degree...helpless.

online, i've run across some Dommes who claim not to ever allow themselves to be penetrated, for this reason. they feel it will take away something from their dominance, however temporarily. it is also why i could never imagine myself so much as placing a finger in a man's bum...even if it were under gunpoint and at his command, i'd feel that i'd be in some small way dominating him with my narrow little digit.

so what say you good folks? do you believe penetration has anything to do with dominance and submission? i'm especially interested in hearing opposing viewpoints, those who can reconcile being Dominant, and yet being penetrated...or being submissive, and yet being the penetrator.

Well, it makes sense to me, but then I'm always the penetrate-ee and he's the penetrator. And their's no interest in us changing the dynamics.

PLUS, I have a friend who will, with guys she's brought home from the bar, put her finger up their ass mostly to watch them fall over backward. 'WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?' I'm sure she does it in relationships, too, but in those times I'd say it's a dominance thing for her to them.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Well Gal...

Wheres my gold star??

 

[rida]

I recently had an experience where I got to use a butt plug on a man.

When we were talking about it the past months, in his mind it was going to a submissive experience for him, same as it happened in the past (with another woman). Me, not having found (or grown) a single Top bone in me yet, I was a bit worried about pulling it off.

True to "nothing ever goes anyway near as planned/imagined", the experience went well but not how imagined. I can tell you that even when I had my finger stuck up his butt and later fucking him with the butt plug, he was still the one in control, Topping. It was rather interesting feeling fucked while technically been the fucker.

 

[graceanne]

i do agree with you that perhaps oral can be an exception...a dominant person could give oral to a man in a very dominant manner...i.e. guy lying back, bound up and immobile, her on top just playing with him. but in that situation, it's difficult to really define it as true penetration, as the cock is doing nothing, in control of nothing.

however i disagree about the idea of a mouth being this potentially hazardous zone for a cock. true, a suckee with ill intent and given free reign of motion could bite and injure the heck out of a penis. but by taking such an action, you are facing the risk of receiving some pretty hellacious and violent male testosterone-driven retribution. i know that if a female were to seriously bite my Master's cock, his first reflex would be to knock her out flat with a solid punch to the side of the head. his second reflex would be "damn, ouch" that's just him, fight back first, feel the pain later. i'm guessing other men with any significant levels of testosterone would react similarly. so yeah, go ahead and bite if you dare.

That's pretty much what K would do. *shrugs* He told me once, when we were dating, that if I ever kicked him in the balls I better hope I incopacitate him - cause if he catches me I'll regret living. (I was giggling about someone getting kicked in the balls in a movie.) Quite frankly, it would serve me right.

Fellatio = foreplay

K's like that. He loves blow jobs - but he rarely cums from them. It's just foreplay.

 

[eroticspank]

Agreed

Think it all comes down to mindset. The one doing the penetrating can also be injured from and/or during the act of penetration. I also think it is possible to not just view it as being penetrated, but to counter the popular perception as the male member being enveloped/swallowed/smothered by whatever it is entering. Same goes for the D/s aspect...it comes down to mindset more than action.

Catalina

After reading most of the posts on here I have to agree with Catalina the most.

It certainly comes down to mindset!

For example: If you decide you want to be penetrated versus you are forced to be penetrated. You can have a sub in a cockring as a Domme and decide you want to put his dick in you and enjoy yourself while he can only watch. Later on you may decide to penetrate him with a strapon which he has no choice in the matter.

I have been given a blowjob and felt very submissive in that scene but in another scene I was giving a very teasing oral to a lady and I was in the Dom role. It was about our mindset in each situation.

Regarding orgasm: Yes it can be a loss of control but again it is your mindset. An orgasm can be very humiliating depending upon how it came about for a sub or it can be an amazing release for a sub. For a Domme it can be just enjoying herself and part of the whole scene.

I read once that a woman gets stronger while she is orgasming and a man gets weaker while he is orgasming. This is part of the yin and yang balance of energies during sexual union. Interesting! Well maybe this part is for another thread.

ES