People that say they "hate" kids

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jesus! Get down off your soapbox. You love kids so much I wonder...you love them so much you make my skill crawl. Wackford Squeers, maybe?

Maybe I've seen too much harm inflicted on kids but I'm of the opinion that few regard them with affection, esteem, or concern.

 

[NippleMuncher]

Note: The word HATE.

Obviously, you have an issue with the word "hate". Granted, it is a pretty appalling word when you get right down to it.

I personally don't "hate" anyone, I do severely dislike certain groups for various reasons.

I dislike children who are unruly, snotty little brats, bred by Satan. They have no self respect and no respect for anyone or anything around them. This dislike extends to all ages, not just children. Well behaved children who are polite and respectful I have no problem with.

I equally dislike the trash of our society. The use of the word "trash" is to denote individuals with no redeeming qualities what-so-ever. They revel in their dysfunction, their base, crass, and generally repellant demeanor.

There is no age, gender, race, political-ism, religion, or socioeconomic bias towards these people, repellant is repellant, regardless of "status" or belief system.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Justifying hatred by saying that "Oh parents get lower taxes" and "Parents get time off"? Those are excuses, not valid reasons to HATE CHILDREN.

As far as I can tell, I'm the only person in this thread who mentioned the "parents get time off" issue - aside from one other poster who simply quoted me - so I have to assume you're referring to me here.

If that's the case, then I would appreciate it if you'd reread my post and reconsider whether you think it was appropriate to accuse me of "justifying hatred" there. It was not an especially long post and I thought I'd made it abundantly clear that I disagree with that reaction and consider it misdirected.

Nevertheless it's worth discussing, because "irrational" is a long way from "irrelevant". Certain types of irrationality are part of human nature; if you want to live among human beings for decades without being driven mad, sometimes it's helpful to examine irrational behaviour and understand why it happens. (And before anybody goes there, "understand" and "justify" are very different concepts.)

And yeah, I'm sympathetic to the need to vent, but this is a discussion forum. The nature of discussion forums is that nobody owns the discussion (except the site owners) and discussions will wander off in directions that the OP didn't intend. (Yesterday I started a thread about Dan Brown; within a couple of hours it had drifted into a discussion about Panama hats.) If I want to vent to a sympathetic audience, I do it on my blog.

Edit: especially since your original post acknowledged: "I realize that by sharing them, I'm opening myself up to criticism and flaming, but I'm aware of this an prepared to deal with that".

 

[satindesire]

As far as I can tell, I'm the only person in this thread who mentioned the "parents get time off" issue - aside from one other poster who simply quoted me - so I have to assume you're referring to me here.

If that's the case, then I would appreciate it if you'd reread my post and reconsider whether you think it was appropriate to accuse me of "justifying hatred" there. It was not an especially long post and I thought I'd made it abundantly clear that I disagree with that reaction and consider it misdirected.

Nevertheless it's worth discussing, because "irrational" is a long way from "irrelevant". Certain types of irrationality are part of human nature; if you want to live among human beings for decades without being driven mad, sometimes it's helpful to examine irrational behaviour and understand why it happens. (And before anybody goes there, "understand" and "justify" are very different concepts.)

And yeah, I'm sympathetic to the need to vent, but this is a discussion forum. The nature of discussion forums is that nobody owns the discussion (except the site owners) and discussions will wander off in directions that the OP didn't intend. (Yesterday I started a thread about Dan Brown; within a couple of hours it had drifted into a discussion about Panama hats.) If I want to vent to a sympathetic audience, I do it on my blog.

Edit: especially since your original post acknowledged: "I realize that by sharing them, I'm opening myself up to criticism and flaming, but I'm aware of this an prepared to deal with that".

Yes, I'm prepared to deal with that and I'm dealing with it here. As I said in my last post, you're all technically perfectly allowed to post in here. I fully acknowledge it and said it multiple times. So, what? That doesn't mean I have to like what you say here or agree with it, though, does it? My way of "dealing" is different than what you'd do, but I don't have to do what you do, and to suggest that I'm doing something wrong just because it's different than what you'd choose is a little arrogant.



I do not want to "discuss" that extreme level of dislike towards children (Babies, not bratty kids or bad parents, but specifically tiny children like young toddlers/babies who have no choice but to behave and live the way they do) so if that's why you're posting to me, don't bother. Feel free to talk to anyone else about it but I have no interest in it. I think HATING a baby is horrible and even the idea of trying to discuss why anyone would think it's okay makes me feel physically ill.

 

[observer7]

I hate babies.

But my nephew is kinda cute.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, I'm prepared to deal with that and I'm dealing with it here. As I said in my last post, you're all technically perfectly allowed to post in here.

"Technically" is a big caveat there, especially when closely accompanied by statements such as "This isn't a bloody discussion where we all sit and list reasons we hate kids" and "This is not the thread for you if you hate kids" and "Also what this thread isn't meant for".

There's no "technically" about it. It's an open discussion forum (subject to site owners' whim), end of story. Being the OP doesn't give you any special authority to decide who should post here and what they should post about.

I fully acknowledge it and said it multiple times. So, what? That doesn't mean I have to like what you say here or agree with it, though, does it? My way of "dealing" is different than what you'd do, but I don't have to do what you do,

I made no statement about what you have to do. My point was that if you find it distressing to see people discuss this issue, then bringing it up on a discussion forum might be a masochistic option, and there are alternatives.

and to suggest that I'm doing something wrong just because it's different than what you'd choose is a little arrogant.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea because it's different to what I'd choose. I'm suggesting it's a bad idea because by your own responses it seems pretty clear that it's causing you distress.

I do not want to "discuss" that extreme level of dislike towards children (Babies, not bratty kids or bad parents, but specifically tiny children like young toddlers/babies who have no choice but to behave and live the way they do) so if that's why you're posting to me, don't bother. Feel free to talk to anyone else about it but I have no interest in it.

If you reread my initial post in this thread, you'll see that "talk to anyone else about it " is exactly what I was doing. That post was a reply to NotHisLady, not to you.

The first time I responded to you in this thread was after you described me as "justifying hatred", which is both offensive and untrue. When you do something like that, yes, you can expect a response, and the one I gave was towards the polite end of the spectrum.

I think HATING a baby is horrible and even the idea of trying to discuss why anyone would think it's okay makes me feel physically ill.

I, also, think hating a baby is horrible. Which is why I'm very unimpressed that you accused me of "justifying" it.

 

[silverwhisper]

james quoth:
jesus! get down off your soapbox. you love kids so much i wonder...you love them so much you make my skill crawl. wackford squeers, maybe?

holy crap, you just broke my irony meter!

ed

 

[twister947]

In point of fact, I can't recall ever hearing someone say they hate babies. Maybe its the crowd you run with.

 

[shiny5437]

Two things that strike me about this thread. Firstly, it really is an unusual topic of conversation. I've never met someone who hates babies. Secondly, I don't recall seeing satindesire have this much of a rant about anything.

Apologies if I'm overstepping the mark here but genuinely, satindesire are you okay?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

holy crap, you just broke my irony meter!

ed

With the kinda luv she professes for kids yuh gotta wonder if she performs late term abortions.

 

[NotHisLady]

In point of fact, I can't recall ever hearing someone say they hate babies. Maybe its the crowd you run with.

The only context I've ever heard that in was
--people who were talking bi racial couples having kids but that is only a cover for what they really mean. Yeah they do hate the baby but they hate a whole hell of a lot more so do we really have to take them into consideration?

--women who are under a great deal of pressure not to or who have recently made the choice to terminate. They are displacing and justifying, it's a way of protecting themselves psychologically. Do we really want to go attacking them all things considered?

--people who were neglected and abused as very small children (actually my friend who is a family counsellor told me this one) who are subconsciously displaying self-hate as well as fear of the idea of being responsible for a baby. I sort of hope these folks find some solace.

--there are the miserable shits who hate everything but they're beneath contempt so why waste time on them.

All that being said, the thread didn't posit the idea of people who hate innocent babes in arms, it proposed that some people 'hate' kids. While babies are certainly there under the umbrella term kids, for most people when you say kids that isn't where their minds go. Kids and babies are as different as colts and foals.

unless--you didn't mean people who can't abide baby goats did you?

 

[midwestyankee]

There's some misguided offense here. If you've never spouted off that you hate kids, then obviously I'm not talking about you.

You're ignoring Internet Rule #41: Take advantage of all potential opportunities to proclaim yourself holier than all others.

 

[laura93]

I hate the fact that a woman's life is expected to revolve around kids; if you don't have one, if you don't plan to have one, you're some kind of failure.

 

[Eilan]

I hate the fact that a woman's life is expected to revolve around kids; if you don't have one, if you don't plan to have one, you're some kind of failure.

Even if you do have one or more kids, someone will find another way to make you feel like a failure.

 

[Netzach]

I don't "hate kids" but my spouse does.

Are we talking like "cheers when their parents slap them" no, just avoids, isn't charmed by and doesn't give a shit about. And you know what, if you think that makes someone a horrible person, then whatever, you know to fuck off.

It's no new territory, every Atheist has to face this same reaction more or less, we're used to it. Everyone else sees something so it has to be there, and your life is bereft and sad and worth - less - because you can't. Not won't, but literally cannot. And so you're crazy, you're sociopathic, you're not capable of REAL feeling or morality, no matter what you do. But you must never hate these people for what they're foisting off on you.

I'm marginally more on board, but frankly this idea that I *must* like your children, I *must* care about your children and I *must* think of "the children" is completely offensive to me.

It's the idea that being into/happy with/permissive of/yay for children is compulsory that makes people hate them and their obnoxious self-absorbed parents.

 

[Netzach]

The only context I've ever heard that in was
--people who were talking bi racial couples having kids but that is only a cover for what they really mean. Yeah they do hate the baby but they hate a whole hell of a lot more so do we really have to take them into consideration?

--women who are under a great deal of pressure not to or who have recently made the choice to terminate. They are displacing and justifying, it's a way of protecting themselves psychologically. Do we really want to go attacking them all things considered?

--people who were neglected and abused as very small children (actually my friend who is a family counsellor told me this one) who are subconsciously displaying self-hate as well as fear of the idea of being responsible for a baby. I sort of hope these folks find some solace.

--there are the miserable shits who hate everything but they're beneath contempt so why waste time on them.

All that being said, the thread didn't posit the idea of people who hate innocent babes in arms, it proposed that some people 'hate' kids. While babies are certainly there under the umbrella term kids, for most people when you say kids that isn't where their minds go. Kids and babies are as different as colts and foals.

unless--you didn't mean people who can't abide baby goats did you?

Hate to break up the pity party, but we're in none of the above categories and nope, not even close.

The idea that someone just might not be into something "everyone loves" like Christmas, just really burns some people up. And that is basically horse shit.

 

[Netzach]

It seems like hating kids is one of the last things people can say they "hate" in public and some people will rush right up to them and be like OMG ME TOO! I HATE KIDS TOO! THEY'RE SO FUCKING ANNOYING AND THEY STINK! And anyone who side-eyes them gets shit for it because kids are apparently so awful that it's totally cool to publicly and with pride tell others that they feel so strongly negatively towards a baby for reasons completely beyond that baby's control. I don't understand it in the least.

Okay, vent over.

I don't know what planet you hang on but on mine anything OTHER than fawning approval tattoos you as some kind of monster asshole. I'm truly surprised by this - the things you're saying are things only child-free people I know say to each other tentatively and full of fear.

You MUST pay attention, you MUST be permissive as your evenings are ruined and your sensory sensitivities are assaulted, you MUST smile, and you MUST interact or else.

I really think you're missing the degree to which "the children" are compulsory and it's taboo to be anything other than thrilled.

I'm generally cool with kids, I just resent being put into an arm lock over it.

 

[Netzach]

People that "hate" kids simply don't know how to deal with and are, therefore, uncomfortable around them. It's a failing on their part.

Or we can, but the energy tokens handed out to us by life are quickly spent on just getting into the grocery store, so your dirty looks when we're not smiling through the screaming are super awesome. Yep, that chronic illness failing makes me a shitty human.

The upside of my being all FUBAR is that I don't discriminate in my disinterest and general blah. The "well behaved" kid isn't that much more enthralling to me than the poor kid with developmental delays melting down in the aisle and having a freakout - I go from the assumption that everyone's got a hard row to hoe when it comes to the parents, and I just try to remove myself without making it seem like I think I'm better than anyone, it's just not my scene. It's funny to me that parents and people who loooove children are always judging other parents - I'm much more comfortable with the idea that sometimes it is NOT bad parenting, sometimes all the good parenting in the world is not going to get an idealized result, and mainly I just don't want to have to worry about this or have the fallout in my face whenever I can avoid it.

What does really send me over the edge are abusive and borderline abusive parents in stores - I may cringe around kids but that has nothing to do with how I feel about their powerlessness and status.

 

[Netzach]

Not to mention the tax code. No reason to dislike kids, but it damn sure discriminates against those w/o kids, and could be viewed as divisive.

I'm more than happy to PAY money to insure that the future isn't filled with desperate and uneducated people. This is what's funny to me - people all into their kids who want to cut off the children of undocumented workers from benefits, as though the future gives a real shit where people come from.

Just leave me alone is all I ask.

 

[VladHarkonnen]

Or we can, but the energy tokens handed out to us by life are quickly spent on just getting into the grocery store, so your dirty looks when we're not smiling through the screaming are super awesome. Yep, that chronic illness failing makes me a shitty human.

The upside of my being all FUBAR is that I don't discriminate in my disinterest and general blah. The "well behaved" kid isn't that much more enthralling to me than the poor kid with developmental delays melting down in the aisle and having a freakout - I go from the assumption that everyone's got a hard row to hoe when it comes to the parents, and I just try to remove myself without making it seem like I think I'm better than anyone, it's just not my scene. It's funny to me that parents and people who loooove children are always judging other parents - I'm much more comfortable with the idea that sometimes it is NOT bad parenting, sometimes all the good parenting in the world is not going to get an idealized result, and mainly I just don't want to have to worry about this or have the fallout in my face whenever I can avoid it.

omg...again.

What does really send me over the edge are abusive and borderline abusive parents in stores

Well...yeah. No argument here.

 

[Que]

I ran into a woman who it seems does hate them...

We had spent some quality time, she knows I have kids and that they are a priority for me...she had one (very) early and mentioned she is "done" with kids.

I wasn't looking to knock her up so it was all to the good...or so I thought.

I had my youngest only with me and she phone wanting me to drop by...I explained I was encumbered and had some errands...she mentioned a grand daughter so I thought I'd stop by and just say hi.

My errand was just up the hill to the store and back, like 15 minutes round trip.

I saw how she treated the grand-daughter and tried to gently drag my daughter out of there to the store, and my daughter insisted she was playing, and the "grandma" and I mean that only in the bio sense of the descriptor, said "she'll be fine."

I felt like a horrible parent leaving her there for 15 minutes.

I can be annoyed by bad parenting frequently, and the BEHAVIOR that it tends to foster in kids...

my youngest is a little blue-eyed blond haired doll with a penchant for misbehavior that would rival the spawn of Satan..(That's Satan, not Satin, I'm sure hers are lovely or at least will make good use of makeup in the future, but I digress)..

Anyway it isn't like I don't on occasion administer a judicious swat to her boney rear end. But when I administer so much as a stern word or a time-out in public, I have frequently had people actually say, "But she is SO cute!"...I just look at them and point out that if she were an ugly, unruly little boy you would be urging corporal punishment.

She is being raised mostly by teenagers who seem unaware that corporal punishment was sparse in their upbringing and they will (lightly) backhand her at a moments provocation...I am constantly reminding them...Today, she has a parent right here...I'll decide when she needs correction.

There's a fine line that I have to walk...I don't really give a shit if someone thinks I am a bad parent when I give her a little leash, or whether others view with disdain a corrective yank.

there seem to be a lot of quotes purported to be from Hepburn, Monroe and Mae West, et.al. about how the well behaved don't scale the heights and have no fun along the way...I want my daughter to have some spirit, but its all a balance...

I get though that it reasonably impacts others lives...if she decides a screaming fit is reasonable in a restaurant she gets manhandled and hauled out of the joint with a hand on her mouth.

 

[Emerson40]

I can’t say that I’ve encountered anyone who “hates” kids. At least not in the context as I understand hate being used in the original post. Maybe it’s the circles I move in, maybe it’s cause I have kids. I dunno.

Much the same as there are folks who are not dog people or care for the company of cats, I can certainly appreciate that some don’t care for kids, or have time for them. Especially if they are encountered where they are not expected, behave poorly, and are disruptive during a meal, or out in public. I think in these cases, the negative feelings are probably more directed at the parents who brought the kids and in some cases, brought the kids and “forgot” about them. If the venue is not appropriate for children, or the parents lack the good sense and judgement to deal with disruptive kids properly, then shame on the parents. If it is someplace where one should not be surprised by the presence of kids - parks, shopping malls, swimming pools, etc - don’t be such a grumpy gus when you find kids being kids. That’s what kids do.

Myself, I adore children of any age. And not just because I have some. Their sense of wonderment, and seeing their imaginations at work is inspiring.
Sometimes we get caught up in our problems, and bogged down in all the hustle and bustle, and kids can remind you how amazing the world is.

We’ve travelled with our young children, and have journeyed through some pretty inhospitable parts of the world. When disembarking from boat, train, or bus, or walking through villages, my daughter has waved to and and smiled at, by most adult’s standards, some hard and sinister looking folks, weathered by their environment and living conditions. These folks, even the most stoic, will smile - genuine, warm smiles - and wave back. This happens because children have a way of washing the weary away from your day with their joy, a joy that is unrestrained, and has not been corrupted by propriety or tempered with the harsher realities of adulthood.

Watch a kid when they solve or grasp something in their mind, achieve something, or overcome a problem or obstacle. I’m talking about things like the first time they read a story to you without prompting or correcting, or ride a bike without the aid of training wheels or the careful hand of a parent holding the seat. You can’t teach them about the pride and confidence they experience in these moments, or make them feel any more like anything in the world is possible, at least not like the way they feel it at these times.

Hate. I don’t get the “hate”. Kids are our legacy, and our best chance at un-fucking some of the mess we have made in this world. What’s to hate about that?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I can’t say that I’ve encountered anyone who “hates” kids. At least not in the context as I understand hate being used in the original post. Maybe it’s the circles I move in, maybe it’s cause I have kids. I dunno.

Much the same as there are folks who are not dog people or care for the company of cats, I can certainly appreciate that some don’t care for kids, or have time for them. Especially if they are encountered where they are not expected, behave poorly, and are disruptive during a meal, or out in public. I think in these cases, the negative feelings are probably more directed at the parents who brought the kids and in some cases, brought the kids and “forgot” about them. If the venue is not appropriate for children, or the parents lack the good sense and judgement to deal with disruptive kids properly, then shame on the parents. If it is someplace where one should not be surprised by the presence of kids - parks, shopping malls, swimming pools, etc - don’t be such a grumpy gus when you find kids being kids. That’s what kids do.

Myself, I adore children of any age. And not just because I have some. Their sense of wonderment, and seeing their imaginations at work is inspiring.
Sometimes we get caught up in our problems, and bogged down in all the hustle and bustle, and kids can remind you how amazing the world is.

We’ve travelled with our young children, and have journeyed through some pretty inhospitable parts of the world. When disembarking from boat, train, or bus, or walking through villages, my daughter has waved to and and smiled at, by most adult’s standards, some hard and sinister looking folks, weathered by their environment and living conditions. These folks, even the most stoic, will smile - genuine, warm smiles - and wave back. This happens because children have a way of washing the weary away from your day with their joy, a joy that is unrestrained, and has not been corrupted by propriety or tempered with the harsher realities of adulthood.

Watch a kid when they solve or grasp something in their mind, achieve something, or overcome a problem or obstacle. I’m talking about things like the first time they read a story to you without prompting or correcting, or ride a bike without the aid of training wheels or the careful hand of a parent holding the seat. You can’t teach them about the pride and confidence they experience in these moments, or make them feel any more like anything in the world is possible, at least not like the way they feel it at these times.

Hate. I don’t get the “hate”. Kids are our legacy, and our best chance at un-fucking some of the mess we have made in this world. What’s to hate about that?

What a crock of shit. Bill Cosby's right, theyre all brain damaged. Anyone who says he adores kids is a liar.

 

[NightL]

What a crock of shit. Bill Cosby's right, theyre all brain damaged. Anyone who says he adores kids is a liar.

Do you punch children as well?

 

[Lord Pmann]

I'm not very smart when it comes to children. I once asked if a three year old could read.

But this UCLA study may help you see into the eyes of some people who see it from a scientific viewpoint. Sorry if this is discussion or interaction. This thread seems to not be the place for that, unless it's in the confines of exactly what the original poster seems appropriate.

LOS ANGELES -

A surprising new study
released Monday by UCLA's Institute For
Child Development revealed that human
babies, long thought by psychologists to be
highly inquisitive and adaptable, are actually
extraordinarily stupid.

The study, an 18-month battery of
intelligence tests administered to over 3,500
babies, concluded categorically that babies
are "so stupid, it's not even funny."

According to Institute president Molly
Bentley, in an effort to determine infant
survival instincts when attacked, the babies
were prodded in an aggressive manner with a
broken broom handle. Over 90 percent of
them, when poked, failed to make even rudimentary attempts to defend themselves.
The remaining 10 percent responded by
vacating their bowels.

It is unlikely that the presence of the babies'
fecal matter, however foul-smelling, would
have a measurable defensive effect against an
attacker in a real-world situation," Bentley
said.

Another test, in which the infants were placed
on a mound of dirt outdoors during a
torrential downpour, produced similarly
bleak results.

"The chicken, dog and even worm babies that
we submitted to the test as a control group all
had enough sense to come in from the rain
or, at least, seek shelter under a leafy clump
of vegetation or outcropping of rock," test
supervisor Thomas Howell said. "The human babies, on the other hand, could not grasp
even this incredibly basic concept, instead
merely lying on the ground and making
gurgling noises."

According to Howell, almost 60 percent of
the infants tested in this manner eventually
drowned.

Some of the babies tested were actually so
stupid that they choked to death on pieces of
Micronaut space toys. Others, unable to use
such primitive instruments as can openers
and spoons due to insufficient motor skills,
simply starved to death, despite being surrounded by cabinets full of nutritious,
life-giving Gerber-brand baby-food products.

Babies, the study concluded, are also too
stupid to do the following: avoid getting their
heads trapped in automatic car windows; use
ice to alleviate the pain of burn injuries
resulting from touching an open flame;
master the skills required for scuba diving; and use a safety ladder to reach a window to
escape from a room filled with cyanide gas.

"As a mother of four, I find these results very
disheartening," Bentley told reporters. "I can
honestly say that the effort I have expended
trying to raise my children into intelligent
beings may have been entirely wasted, a
fool's dream, if you will."

Study results also prompted a strong
reaction from President Clinton. "All of us,
on some primitive, mammalian level, feel a
great sense of pride in our offspring," Clinton
said. "It is now clear, however, that these
feelings are unfounded. Given the overwhelming evidence of their profound
stupidity, we have no choice but to replace
our existing infant population with artificially
incubated simu-drones, with the eventual
goal of phasing out the shamefully stupid
human baby forever."