Perception

[MeekMe]

A friend (K) had guests over. One of her guests asked privately, "she's pretty, whose friend is she?" Referring to K's teenaged boys. K answered, "mine." It took a bit of explaining to convince her guest that I was indeed an adult and her friend.

So that's the physical and the real life 'struggle' for me. But now I'm curious about online perceptions. The interaction is different and the physical aspects don't play as big of a role. It's difficult to figure out the tone of what's being written. That's often why I use lots of these: (-｡-; (Ｔ＿Ｔ)
(^-^)/

Another reason I use them is because here I can be a little more 'expressive.' I'm not actually a very enthusiastic person, but I suspect I look a little more cheerful with this: *\(^o^)/*

No particular questions, just moving to something slightly different.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[MeekMe]

Does how you present yourself impact on this perception?

No.

I wear age appropriate clothing and prefer a conservative look (bordering on 'old lady chic'). I was once told by someone (they were rather mean) that I looked like a teenager going for their first job interview. I had this problem even while wearing full suits for work.

If it really bothered you, ( and I don't see why it should ) a ' sophisticated' haircut over a simpler one, for example, might make a difference, and a change in make up/ wardrobe. But if you are happy in your skin....why make changes

I'm comfortable with my style. But there isn't a haircut or set of clothes that will change what people think upon first sight of me. Most people will change based on interacting with me through conversation and such, but first sight is something I can't control beyond what I already do.

This discussion isn't really about making changes for me. And 'struggle' was written as it was because it's not really a problem. It is, however, something I use to determine if I like someone or not. As far as perception goes, my outer appearance greatly affects how others treat me.

Given some of my experiences, I have to say children get a raw deal. People can be condescending douche nozzles a lot of the time.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[MeekMe]

I just thought you were lovely looking. I guess there is no scale or anything to relate it to.

Thank you. I think scale would show that I'm very small. I think height has a lot to do with it.

What is interesting as relates to perception is that you base your perception of someone partially on how you feel they perceive you.....which I think is natural, who but a saint could not?

I don't claim to be kind, nice, or anything close to saintly. I don't think I trust those that do, either. I may be quite the opposite.

But its interesting particularly that many people make this misjudgement about you and it gives you an vantage on how to see them....a sort of 'hidden door' or secret window, of how they might treat youth. What we cannot know of course is if any of them have foundations for mitigation of any shoddy behaviour, or indeed if less unpleasant behaviour is always from a great place. Hmm. I only thought of that last bit while typing it.

This is... It's interesting. I do question the motives of those completely stuck on my appearance. I've unfortunately come across those that enjoy the "petite, vulnerable, young" type and it squicks me out.

Meek, sorry also, in reading your response to my post I realise my post before sounds a bit like it was suggesting you wore play suits or dressed as a doll. This is not at all what I meant, I apologise because I do realise this is how I sounded.

I recognize this and tried to be less harsh in my response.

 

[CutieMouse]

No.

I wear age appropriate clothing and prefer a conservative look (bordering on 'old lady chic'). I was once told by someone (they were rather mean) that I looked like a teenager going for their first job interview. I had this problem even while wearing full suits for work.

I'm comfortable with my style. But there isn't a haircut or set of clothes that will change what people think upon first sight of me. Most people will change based on interacting with me through conversation and such, but first sight is something I can't control beyond what I already do.

This discussion isn't really about making changes for me. And 'struggle' was written as it was because it's not really a problem. It is, however, something I use to determine if I like someone or not. As far as perception goes, my outer appearance greatly affects how others treat me.

Given some of my experiences, I have to say children get a raw deal. People can be condescending douche nozzles a lot of the time.

My middle daughter struggles greatly with this...

She's 16. Quiet. Introverted. Exceptionally smart. Devastatingly logical. Super dark sense of humor... and finally 5'3", maaaaaaaaaybe 110# (soaking wet, with rocks in her pockets), and permanently tan with green eyes, dimples, and she decided to chop off her hair in a pixie cut this summer.

It's either "ZOMG you are the CUUUUTEST THING EVAR!!!!" or she gets mistaken for a 12 year old boy - because she wears baggy, androgynous clothes most of the time, in a desperate attempt to get people to stop thinking she's SOOOOOOOOO CUUUUUUUUUUUUTE!!!

The most common complaint?

"Mom. I am surrounded by imbeciles. They just.don't.pay.attention. JUST because I have dimples, and I'm little, no one ever takes me seriously. Don't they realize I can seriously fuck them up? People will take me seriously when I'm an adult, right? Please?"

(sigh)

Oh, and a random person at the grocery store asked me if I was a teacher the other day... Nope. I sell lingerie for a living. Oh... wait. HUH?!?

 

[MeekMe]

My middle daughter struggles greatly with this...

She's 16. Quiet. Introverted. Exceptionally smart. Devastatingly logical. Super dark sense of humor... and finally 5'3", maaaaaaaaaybe 110# (soaking wet, with rocks in her pockets), and permanently tan with green eyes, dimples, and she decided to chop off her hair in a pixie cut this summer.

It's either "ZOMG you are the CUUUUTEST THING EVAR!!!!" or she gets mistaken for a 12 year old boy - because she wears baggy, androgynous clothes most of the time, in a desperate attempt to get people to stop thinking she's SOOOOOOOOO CUUUUUUUUUUUUTE!!!

The most common complaint?

"Mom. I am surrounded by imbeciles. They just.don't.pay.attention. JUST because I have dimples, and I'm little, no one ever takes me seriously. Don't they realize I can seriously fuck them up? People will take me seriously when I'm an adult, right? Please?"

(sigh)

I wish I had some good advice for this. (-｡-; It hasn't really gotten better for me (if anything it's turned into more of a carnival game. Step right up! Guess this lady's age! Win a prize!), but your daughter has 4" on me and a chance to still grow? I get the cutest comments, too. And I've had difficulty getting jobs because I look too young and too inexperienced (so I've had to really over compensate with being really fuckin good at things). I can say that people will start to notice and pay attention, it's those people she'll want to surround herself with.

Oh, and a random person at the grocery store asked me if I was a teacher the other day... Nope. I sell lingerie for a living. Oh... wait. HUH?!?

It amuses me when people make assumptions like that based on appearance. I've only gotten the teacher thing once and that was because I set out some hand drawn Halloween decorations that looked a lot like something children might color in school. I used to make coloring pages for my nephews so it's a skill I just sort of have.

 

[klippert]

I make no bones about what people think about me. That happens to be their problem

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[SpunThings]

My middle daughter struggles greatly with this...

She's 16. Quiet. Introverted. Exceptionally smart. Devastatingly logical. Super dark sense of humor... and finally 5'3", maaaaaaaaaybe 110# (soaking wet, with rocks in her pockets), and permanently tan with green eyes, dimples, and she decided to chop off her hair in a pixie cut this summer.

It's either "ZOMG you are the CUUUUTEST THING EVAR!!!!" or she gets mistaken for a 12 year old boy - because she wears baggy, androgynous clothes most of the time, in a desperate attempt to get people to stop thinking she's SOOOOOOOOO CUUUUUUUUUUUUTE!!!

The most common complaint?

"Mom. I am surrounded by imbeciles. They just.don't.pay.attention. JUST because I have dimples, and I'm little, no one ever takes me seriously. Don't they realize I can seriously fuck them up? People will take me seriously when I'm an adult, right? Please?"

(sigh)

Oh, and a random person at the grocery store asked me if I was a teacher the other day... Nope. I sell lingerie for a living. Oh... wait. HUH?!?

I feel her pain. Then people say stupid stuff like "but you'll be so happy about your youthful appearance in your 30s though! " I can confirm that at 32 I am glad I don't look "cute" as I once did. People do take me seriously. Part of the problem is people don't take teens seriously as it is.

 

[TheStarlet]

I have been watching this thread for a while now from afar, but only start posting on Lit recently.

For me, I think the way others perceive me actually influenced my own notions of self too deeply for a long time. That external voice saying I should be this way or that wasn't helpful and more than anything, it wasn't me. It felt uncomfortable and untrue because that's exactly what it was. But if I can just trust myself to be as I am (which is a continuous goddamned exploration if there ever was one) and leave the world to think what they want, I feel I am going to be better off and more secure in myself. I already feel that way, actually.

External validation feels nice, but it's pretty poisonous in the long haul.

 

[CutieMouse]

I feel her pain. Then people say stupid stuff like "but you'll be so happy about your youthful appearance in your 30s though! " I can confirm that at 32 I am glad I don't look "cute" as I once did. People do take me seriously. Part of the problem is people don't take teens seriously as it is.

Yeah...

When I was 11, people assumed I was 16+ because I was tall.

AWKWARD!

Now that I'm in my 40s, people (on average) guess my age to be early 30s, followed by comments about how I must have started having children when I was twelve! I don't look old enough to have college age kids!

I recognize that people probably think they're paying me a compliment, but they aren't. They're basically finding a back-door way to find out if I was a (scandal!) teen mother. Same thing happens when people find out I have 5 children - "FIVE? All from YOU? Wow! All with the same man?" WTF kind of question is that? All from the same man.... yes, unfortunately. Sheesh.

 

[SpunThings]

Yeah...

When I was 11, people assumed I was 16+ because I was tall.

AWKWARD!

Now that I'm in my 40s, people (on average) guess my age to be early 30s, followed by comments about how I must have started having children when I was twelve! I don't look old enough to have college age kids!

I recognize that people probably think they're paying me a compliment, but they aren't. They're basically finding a back-door way to find out if I was a (scandal!) teen mother. Same thing happens when people find out I have 5 children - "FIVE? All from YOU? Wow! All with the same man?" WTF kind of question is that? All from the same man.... yes, unfortunately. Sheesh.

People are just weird.

 

[cascadiabound]

Yeah...

When I was 11, people assumed I was 16+ because I was tall.

AWKWARD!

Now that I'm in my 40s, people (on average) guess my age to be early 30s, followed by comments about how I must have started having children when I was twelve! I don't look old enough to have college age kids!

I recognize that people probably think they're paying me a compliment, but they aren't. They're basically finding a back-door way to find out if I was a (scandal!) teen mother. Same thing happens when people find out I have 5 children - "FIVE? All from YOU? Wow! All with the same man?" WTF kind of question is that? All from the same man.... yes, unfortunately. Sheesh.

People are so dense. They are often clueless as to the effect these comments and assumptions underlying their words have on us.
The kinds of cruel and thoughtless questions I have gotten regarding my lack of children (and these have varied as I have aged) have stunned and maddened me.
Yes. People are weird. And they are idiots.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[TheStarlet]

I had a really odd conversation once with someone about my childlessness.

I know I am just a newbie here but I am always so impressed with you, Elle, and also too with CutieMouse, MeekMe, cascadiabound and the many other ladies of Lit. I am at an age where this question about children hangs around like a super-dense fog. I have none; I really don't think I want any, either. But that also makes me feel like there's something seriously wrong with me, because of the comments and eyebrow raises.

 

[Penuche]

<snip>The nagging hope is actually harder to deal with than the acceptance of not. I'm ok with it now. The only times I'm not are times when it remained an issue are times when I have thought oh....could I be?.....fuelled mainly by those 'you never know' comments.

With you there.

I can handle my life more or less fine, most of the time - even enjoy a lot of it - except when forced to concentrate on the bits which an outsider would say are very far from ideal.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[desertslave]

I do not think there is ANYTHING wrong at all with not wanting children. There is something wrong I think with having children who you have for a reason other than wanting them. I wish MY parents had realised this pm for example. . If every child were honestly wanted, loved, and tough loved, then imagine the world we would have. There are children to interact with, and I do think that's important...friends children, relatives children.....its good not to be alien completely to generations below, but I am happy being slightly odd aunt and batty friend of parents. It is a better role for me than mother.

I know I have my two, so I'm speaking sideways in a sense, but I agree completely that the best thing in the world is to have children IF wanted, and no other reason. I've seen entirely too many situations where that wasn't the case, and they make me heartsick. As an adopted kid, my mom was emphatic about making sure I understood how wanted I was. I didn't do the math about being put up for adoption until long after the chance to fret over it wore off.

I also think there's a wonderful thing about being a beloved aunt/uncle (whether by blood or not). I enjoyed many years in that role before my own kids came along. I'm not sure I'll ever get grandkids, so I suspect I'll be reverting to 'eccentric auntie' in time. There are far more bonuses than drawbacks, I think.

 

[FelicityJohns]

I think this is quite possibly the best thread I've seen here. And I fully intend to throw in, after I've given it the thought it deserves...

IMHO, you guys rock!

 

[MeekMe]

Thinking more about the height and build thing.....its so geographic isn't it? G is not short in Italy, rather quite tall. In uk he is average or below. In uk I am average , maybe tallish, in Italy I feel gigantic. With G's family, who Meeks, would make you feel tall I feel hulking. When I was younger I used to use people's perception of my girlish, airheady ness to my great advantage. Which is probably not a very kind thing to do. It paid me significant advantage in my first business. In this business ( that I am winding up) people always ask for my husband.

It certainly is geographic. Though, I'm not sure that I would feel tall as the average height is still taller than me. Story of my life, lol.

I understand using people's perception to your advantage. Though I don't feel so bad because I chalk it up to survival.

 

[MeekMe]

People are so dense. They are often clueless as to the effect these comments and assumptions underlying their words have on us.
The kinds of cruel and thoughtless questions I have gotten regarding my lack of children (and these have varied as I have aged) have stunned and maddened me.
Yes. People are weird. And they are idiots.

People say things and have no idea how uncomfortable or hurtful they can be. Most family members have stopped bringing the subject up with me. A select few still don't get it.

 

[MeekMe]

When I look at my marriage I almost wonder if we have 'room' for children. Our relationship can be very tight.

I talked to my husband about this. I suggested that maybe we've grown comfortable with it being just us and that's why we don't feel comfortable adding to that. When I think about it, most couples either have children and get married or get married and start having children. We didn't do that.

I do not think there is ANYTHING wrong at all with not wanting children. There is something wrong I think with having children who you have for a reason other than wanting them. I wish MY parents had realised this pm for example. . If every child were honestly wanted, loved, and tough loved, then imagine the world we would have. There are children to interact with, and I do think that's important...friends children, relatives children.....its good not to be alien completely to generations below, but I am happy being slightly odd aunt and batty friend of parents. It is a better role for me than mother.

I am often put off by people with children that tell me, "oh, you'll want them." Or nonsense about everything working out in the end. Why won't someone just say, "it's cool if you don't." I had a friend recently suggest, "I think you shouldn't have your own. You would do better with adoption." I had to work hard at not losing my shit..

I grew up with parents that shouldn't have had children. We weren't children to them, just burdens (that's really how it felt). I started to see every interaction as a transaction because my mother would hold things over us. It was always that we owed her something. I think this plays into my perception of others. I see human interaction as transactions in which nothing is free. People don't do things without payment of some kind.

It's heavily cynical and I'm uncomfortable with the idea. I'm also surprised at my own naïveté which feels absurd.

 

[CutieMouse]

I am often put off by people with children that tell me, "oh, you'll want them." Or nonsense about everything working out in the end. Why won't someone just say, "it's cool if you don't." I had a friend recently suggest, "I think you shouldn't have your own. You would do better with adoption." I had to work hard at not losing my shit..

I grew up with parents that shouldn't have had children. We weren't children to them, just burdens (that's really how it felt). I started to see every interaction as a transaction because my mother would hold things over us. It was always that we owed her something. I think this plays into my perception of others. I see human interaction as transactions in which nothing is free. People don't do things without payment of some kind.

It's heavily cynical and I'm uncomfortable with the idea. I'm also surprised at my own naïveté which feels absurd.

That's like the people who tell me that I'll remarry someday.

Riiiiiiiiight.

(It's been 12 years. I am just as adamant about never remarrying today, as I was the day I announced I wanted a divorce.)

I do, very firmly believe that people should only have children if they WANT to have children. If someone knows it's not right for them, for whatever reason, that should be respected - by friends, family, strangers... and the other half of the couple involved in the decision to have children.

If one person wants kids, and the other doesn't... the one who doesn't want kids trumps the one who does. Period. End of story. (Cue therapy. )

 

[desertslave]

If one person wants kids, and the other doesn't... the one who doesn't want kids trumps the one who does. Period. End of story. (Cue therapy. )

<chuckling> My brother's 2nd marriage ended because his wife wanted kids and he declared he was done with his previous two. They went their separate ways and she is a happy mom of three now. Then dear bro got involved with future wife #3, knocked her up, and had a shotgun wedding. Best laid plans?