Perception

[CutieMouse]

<chuckling> My brother's 2nd marriage ended because his wife wanted kids and he declared he was done with his previous two. They went their separate ways and she is a happy mom of three now. Then dear bro got involved with future wife #3, knocked her up, and had a shotgun wedding. Best laid plans?

Yeahhhhh... the last straw (in a barn full of hay) was my ex husband not taking me seriously when I said another pregnancy would do irrevocable and irreparable mental, emotional, psychological and physical harm. Swore he heard me/took the issue seriously when we were in the therapist's office; not so much when we were out of the therapists office. At one point I believe he actually said something like "Wait - you were serious about that?"

 

[cascadiabound]

I know I am just a newbie here but I am always so impressed with you, Elle, and also too with CutieMouse, MeekMe, cascadiabound and the many other ladies of Lit. I am at an age where this question about children hangs around like a super-dense fog. I have none; I really don't think I want any, either. But that also makes me feel like there's something seriously wrong with me, because of the comments and eyebrow raises.

Welcome Starlet.
I too have been following this thread since its inception and have been mulling over exactly what I want to say about myself here. I guess I am still chewing.

However, on this topic, I do want to say a few things. First of all: There is NOTHING wrong with you if you do not feel called to motherhood. Listen to this voice. Do not listen to all of the idiots in the world who will try to tell you that you do not know your own mind or that motherhood is "natural" or you won't feel "fulfilled" or you will regret it later.

Becoming a parent is a serious commitment. I think it is the most important job in the world and I have the utmost admiration for those who take it on. Raising children is a difficult and largely thankless job. As an adult in this society without children, I consider it my duty to assist those who are parents. To give them a break. To be an extra adult in their kids lives. To be a safe place for them to confide how fucking hard it is to be a parent and how they sometimes just want to kill the little fuckers. To be the best damn aunt I know how to be.

Once upon a time, I lived with a man when he was in grad school while I worked. He was a lovely person and he clearly wanted to marry me. He regularly told me what a great mother i would be. He never asked me if I wanted to be a mother. This is the single thing I can point to that made me know that he was not for me. And that the life he might give me would never be a good fit. I may have broken his heart. But I definitely made the right choice when I left.

I find people's assumption that I couldn't wait to have kids once I married to be insulting. And people acting like something must be wrong when years went by and we didn't get pregnant to be even worse.

The idea that we should have kids to in turn be there to take care of us when we are old is as much of a lie as the idea that I fail to be fully female if I do not reproduce. Look around... surely you know people who have kids that can't be relied upon to do anything - or have turned their backs on the parents that did the best they could by them. Or heaven forbid (because shit happens in life) you outlive your kids and you are just shit out of luck. Best laid plans.

I did wonder in my 30's if there would come a time that I would regret my decision to not have kids. That I would be sorry. Now that I am 50.... I can tell you that I still have not had a moment's regret about this. It has been the right decision for me. For us. For my marriage. For the life I wanted.

Don't get me wrong. I love kids. I adore my nieces and nephews. But I have done more for kids and have been more effective in every part of my life because I have not been a parent.

To your own heart be true.

Cascadia.

 

[SpunThings]

I have to chime in and agree that if you don't want kids, the best thing you can do is not have kids. It is hard, and it can either force you to better yourself, or bring out the worst in you. There is nothing wrong with knowing it is not the life for you. It doesn't make you lesser. I respect people who know clearly they don't want kids, as too many people don't really think about it and fall into parenthood, and come to resent it.

 

[desertslave]

Just throwing out one more aspect to the 'having kids' convo. The flip side is people who very much want kids and, for whatever reasons, can't in the usual way. I worked sideways to an exceptional 'let's get 'em pregnant' practice, and it's a grueling course to take once nature falls down on the job.

So, please be kind and think before you ask people about their situations. You could be opening up a very raw wound for someone who has tried and tried without success. Our society seems to be incredibly insensitive in so many ways.

 

[SpunThings]

Just throwing out one more aspect to the 'having kids' convo. The flip side is people who very much want kids and, for whatever reasons, can't in the usual way. I worked sideways to an exceptional 'let's get 'em pregnant' practice, and it's a grueling course to take once nature falls down on the job.

So, please be kind and think before you ask people about their situations. You could be opening up a very raw wound for someone who has tried and tried without success. Our society seems to be incredibly insensitive in so many ways.

This is very true. Not to mention people who have had losses. It's seen as nosy and improper in many circles to ask about income. I think it should be the similar for the children question.

 

[cascadiabound]

Just throwing out one more aspect to the 'having kids' convo. The flip side is people who very much want kids and, for whatever reasons, can't in the usual way. I worked sideways to an exceptional 'let's get 'em pregnant' practice, and it's a grueling course to take once nature falls down on the job.

So, please be kind and think before you ask people about their situations. You could be opening up a very raw wound for someone who has tried and tried without success. Our society seems to be incredibly insensitive in so many ways.

I could not agree with this more. I always came away from these nosy inquiries feeling irritated for myself, but angry at the "what if" I were in a different situation... desperately trying to get pregnant, just having suffered a miscarriage (or a second or third or fourth), undergoing grueling hormone and implantation procedures with the hopes that THIS time, this month it might take...waiting for an adoption to come through or a pregnant mother to decide that I am good enough to give her baby to.
I know all these situations and their variants and more and have loved the people living through the cruelty of wanting a baby and not being able to have one when and how you want.

These blithe inquires and assumptions are unbelievably cruel to people in these circumstances. And generally they will never tell you they are in the midst.

These questions of procreation should be treated as sensitively as matters of money and income. These are private matters and they are often complicated. Some people are happy to talk about them...but one should not pry unless you are very good friends indeed.

 

[TheStarlet]

You do not need to flatter to be welcome here . But it was lovely anyway

Welcome Starlet.

To your own heart be true.

Cascadia.

Thank you both so much. All of you. It is surprisingly reassuring to get these honest answers. Funny how we come here for one thing and end up finding completely another.

 

[cascadiabound]

Thank you both so much. All of you. It is surprisingly reassuring to get these honest answers. Funny how we come here for one thing and end up finding completely another.

There is a richness here...that is lovely and refreshing and feeds the soul.
It is certainly not just about sex here.
So glad to help you feel welcome (as so many have done for me) and to be a bit of a sounding board.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[MeekMe]

This thread seems to have gone off course. I'm not complaining. I think it's very interesting how it turned out.

As for things we discuss, I adore this side of the board because it's not all handholding and wank fodder. Sex is super neat-o and all, but it's not really that interesting after the third "when's the last time you [insert sex act]" thread. Plus, the people that more spoke to my fantasies have sort of moved on.

^^This, this I can bring back around.

Most people that come here and stick around are delighted to find the more down to earth aspects. A lot come here with the idea that we only talk about sex/relationships/fantasies. One of the things I noticed was that being female makes you a kind of target. There's this perception that if you're a user on this site, you're here for the sex. I would turn people in my inbox away and I often got the same questions, "if you're not here for sex/hookups/relationships/fwb/whatever, then why are you here?"


There's also that "woman + kink = easy" perception that I'm not fond of. So we have a sort of reputation that only exists because we created accounts here. Do you think your online presence is perceived differently? Do you think you give an honest view of yourself? Maybe you play up your good parts? Or maybe you get to be the asshole you've always dreamed you could be in real life? Without all the physical stuff, is your perception changed? Just things to think about. (^ ^)

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

Personally, I only show part of myself here. Some purposefully, and some because it's natural to me. I do the same thing at work with my professional relationships. There I have to be serious. Here I get to be playful. But they are both the "real" me with difference facets showing. Occasionally I squander a bit of seriousness here and a bit of playfulness there but it's only those with close personal relationships that get to see it all.

So yes, my online presence is perceived differently, and yes I give an honest view of myself and who I am here. And yes, being human, I think everyone plays up their "good parts". Some think those parts are their sense of humour, others their smile, or their body, or their snarkiness, or what have you. I think most people tend to reserve their truly unplumbed depths for them alone, and share varying bits of it with people according to the situation.

 

[SpunThings]

Personally, I only show part of myself here. Some purposefully, and some because it's natural to me. I do the same thing at work with my professional relationships. There I have to be serious. Here I get to be playful. But they are both the "real" me with difference facets showing. Occasionally I squander a bit of seriousness here and a bit of playfulness there but it's only those with close personal relationships that get to see it all.

So yes, my online presence is perceived differently, and yes I give an honest view of myself and who I am here. And yes, being human, I think everyone plays up their "good parts". Some think those parts are their sense of humour, others their smile, or their body, or their snarkiness, or what have you. I think most people tend to reserve their truly unplumbed depths for them alone, and share varying bits of it with people according to the situation.

I agree with this. I am not totally open here, but not dishonest either. i don't know what others who have read my posts and remember me think of me, but it's probably a bit more serious than i am.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[MeekMe]

I enjoy reading these responses. I spend my days in silence except for my thoughts usually. You'd think this was the perfect medium for communication for me. It is and it isn't. I rely on a lot of nonverbal actions to communicate often so it's easy to miss. So here, while it doesn't require me to speak, it does require me to use words. I fumble with words.

While I don't outright lie (I struggle with not being truthful, it makes me uncomfortable) I do avoid some things. Here in the forum you get one side. I think a more intimate side (subject matter and such) but only one side. Like with what Collar said about work, I show another side.

Thinking about it, you all might be seeing the most open side.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[cascadiabound]

How do you perceive yourself? How do you think others perceive you? How do others actually perceive you?

I think of myself as a smart, competent, loyal, curious and caring person. As my profile says... I can be rather serious, as in, I take things that actually matter seriously; however, I love to laugh and I can be playful and easy going too. Though, I think that until people know me well, my serious, "gravitas" demeanor which can easily take charge of a big room tends to overshadow my playful side. If you make fun of me or catch me off guard, or know just how to tease me (especially in a social setting) I will blush furiously...and I have friends who love to elicit this reaction from me.
It has been interesting to read others talk about their size and not being "seen" in a room - or not being taken seriously. It has given me pause. I have never had those experiences as an adult. I am of average height and build, but I think I have a bigger presence than my actual physicality. I do not generally speak very loudly, but I do tend to speak with authority and confidence. I expect people to respect me and to take me seriously. I have a rather large vocabulary and am sometimes caught off guard by people not knowing the words I have used in a sentence...it is never my intention to talk down to others...however I like to use just the right word ~ to be precise when I speak. I pleases me to speak well as much as it pleases me to be well put together... to look good and to have the work I do be appreciated.

I am collaborative in my working style. I care about what others think and tend to work for the best outcome for all involved. However - I care more about what is the best outcome for everyone than making sure that no one's feelings get hurt. I tend to listen and carefully craft my response... not in a calculated way; but in a way that will be effective and condenses what has been said already or provides a coherent counterpoint that has not yet been raised. I am passionate about things. Many things. Sometimes to the point where it takes others aback. I will argue a point because I believe it to be correct. The right direction to go. This will be reasoned. Logical. It will not be a "just because it feels right" argument. If it turns out that my reasoning is faulty because I have lacked facts then...my mind can be changed. I will not dig in my heels when faced with new information ~ in fact, I can turn on a dime when new information changes and upends my original reasoning.

I have been described as competent, assertive, articulate, creative, strong-willed, fearless, loyal, kind, stubborn, and a bit of a nerd. I think sometimes my assertiveness and willingness to lead can be perceived as being a touch bossy. Many people comment about how "creative" or "talented" I am and this always makes me a bit uncomfortable. I feel like I work pretty hard at what I do and that I am not all that special. I recognize the work I do as good. As quality... but when people gush over me... well, it feels weird.

My personality type per Myers Briggs is INTJ: which I have seen summed up as believing "All things can be improved." This is pretty close to how I see things. Most things. Most of the time. ~laughing~

I am more introverted than extroverted though I am perfectly sociable and not at all intimidated of people or unlikely to introduce myself or initiate a conversation when appropriate. I am also perfectly happy to sit quietly in a corner and watch everyone else and take their measure. I will have intuited a great deal about you in the first minutes of interacting with you. I will know if something is wrong, even if I don't know you well. If I know you well, I will know that something is wrong from across the room and this will matter to me. I won't try to fix you, ever. But I will try to be a sounding board... if you want this. I am sought out for advice. I am known for being able to keep confidences. For being able to problem solve. For being able to see the "big picture."

I think that sometimes I appear aloof to others. I definitely think too much. I sometimes get lost in thought. I pay attention to things that others seem to miss. I can tell you the phase of the moon, the tide cycle and what is blooming just outside. I can be hurt by things that others will brush off as inconsequential. Once you earn my friendship, people tell me I am as warm and loving a person as they have ever met. And yes... unnervingly passionate...about so many things.


Cascadia

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[IrisAlthea]

Cascadiabound, I can totally relate to what you wrote about being introverted but sociable.
I think that is one of the things where peoples perception of me can be a bit off.
Most seem to think of me as extroverted based on the way I interact with people and large groups. It's just that while I can certainly handle and even enjoy all that, it costs energy and I need time alone and time with my very select few people to recharge.

In some circles people think that I am younger than I am, because for their standards I had my kids late.

In person I'm "quicker" and more impulsive than in text and even more so here where it's foreign language text.

In general, I think C_n_C is right - it's very much context that decides how people percieve us and also what they want to see.

Some see sunny Iris, others see sad Iris and the select few get to endure all of it. =)

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[IrisAlthea]

We get a lovely iris, wise and thoughtful.

I have been thinking so much about this thread.

I got a bit speechless here, so you are just going to have to picture me blushing and quiet.

I feel that perhaps I am not wholly honest with my self and about how directly I skewed perspective. I very deliberately concealed to all but a few I have health condition which impacts on my life to varying degrees. I very much wanted to be just 'Elle' somewhere. In truth, its discomfort about this approach to that makes me often not be such a good friend as perhaps I should be on FYC thread or other health threads, because if feel uncomfortable about my own duplicity in this matter. I have for a longtime felt guilty about a thread where someone posted about dealing with chronic pain and I saw they were in uk and just asked if they had been to an NHs pain clinic.

I still want to be 'just Elle', and I know lots of others here have health struggles of their own too, so this feels a bit stupid.

I think it does come through a bit in what you write here and there is certainly no need for a "Hi, I'm x and I have y condition!"

Share as much or as little as you want, to make you feel safe and good here and of course in discussion with G.

 

[MeekMe]

I have been thinking so much about this thread.

I feel that perhaps I am not wholly honest with my self and about how directly I skewed perspective. I very deliberately concealed to all but a few I have health condition which impacts on my life to varying degrees. I very much wanted to be just 'Elle' somewhere. In truth, its discomfort about this approach to that makes me often not be such a good friend as perhaps I should be on FYC thread or other health threads, because if feel uncomfortable about my own duplicity in this matter. I have for a longtime felt guilty about a thread where someone posted about dealing with chronic pain and I saw they were in uk and just asked if they had been to an NHs pain clinic.

I still want to be 'just Elle', and I know lots of others here have health struggles of their own too, so this feels a bit stupid.

Everyone has struggles in life. Big or small, bad or really bad. Comparing isn't necessary. It certainly helps to put things in perspective, but you can't really compare. Whatever you're going through is valid and if it's bad for you, it just is. Even if the person next to you is having a worse time. That doesn't mean you can't be compassionate and it doesn't mean you can't also feel bad.

I used to compare and feel guilty. After barging into some amazing life lessons, I feel less so. As Iris said, share as little or as much as you'd like.

Be 'just Elle' and I'll be 'just Meeks' (TMI and all ).

 

[cascadiabound]

Everyone has struggles in life. Big or small, bad or really bad. Comparing isn't necessary. It certainly helps to put things in perspective, but you can't really compare. Whatever you're going through is valid and if it's bad for you, it just is. Even if the person next to you is having a worse time. That doesn't mean you can't be compassionate and it doesn't mean you can't also feel bad.

I used to compare and feel guilty. After barging into some amazing life lessons, I feel less so. As Iris said, share as little or as much as you'd like.

Be 'just Elle' and I'll be 'just Meeks' (TMI and all ).

Exactly this Elle... it is useless and silly to feel guilty.
More people have more stuff that they struggle with personally or with someone they love than you can possibly imagine. (And I say this as a person who works in primary health care and sees just how ubiquitous it is day in and day out). You ARE just Elle. Beautiful and perfect and loved.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]