Phraseology Tidbits

[sr71plt]

You have such an interesting way of looking at the world, Elfin—truly bizarre. The so-called “empathy” era of the Stories Feedback forum was you and Jenny Jackson lording it over everyone asking for a critique, telling them their stories were crap and that they had to write to your designated formula, mixing up voice with tense in your critiques, telling them that newbies couldn’t write in the first person, and telling them how “everyone” writes erotica—when you haven’t written any erotica yourself that you can point to for over six years. The fact is that the Stories Feedback forum is doing just fine—far better than when half-baked hacks like you and Jenny were telling people how they were supposed to be writing erotica. People are asking for critiques—and getting far more competent and less restrictive advice than you and Jenny ever gave them in the puffed-up false prophet era.

For the last four years it’s been you dropping on my head, not me “hounding” you. All anyone need do is read this thread to see that. You are really and truly crazy.

You even fail to read and comprehend the source note I’m appending to every entry on this thread now—just for you.

And I’m glad to offer up this thread so everyone who reads it can figure you out at a glance. It saves confusion.

 

[sr71plt]

Take your pick--or find another favorite even

The term "dew drop" can refer either to a small amount of morning moisture or an 1800s baseball term meaning a slow pitch.

(It's also part of the name of a tongue-in-cheek tavern near where I live: the Dew Drop Inn.)


These tidbits are mainly based on Barbara Ann Kipfer's book, Phraseology. Where other sources are used, they will be given. Observations from other sources are quite welcome, preferably with the source identified.

 

[_Lynn_]

No, Lynn, just a tilt of the lance against hypocrisy.

I have been hounded from pillar to post by this arrogant egotist for giving my 2 cents to newbies. He huffs and puffs that unless you are descending fromMount Olympus like him then you are not worthy to comment. He is wrong and is as much at fault as scouries for destroying the empathy of Stories Feedback.

I accept his status as grammarian and editor, but to stoop to post extracts from a widely disparaged book and expect us to take it as gospel is what the law calls, 'passing off'. He is contemptous in not replying to fair criticism.

Sea Urchin is wrong. A load of research has gone into the history of these expressions and Kipfer has produced an airport paperback book of rubbish that sr wants to quote - goodness knows why.

Let him tell us the real origin of 'OK' - with references - and I will reconsider my opinion.

A

Where has SR ever said he expects anyone to take the tidbits in this thread as gospel?

What difference does it make why he chose that book anyway? I get it that you don't approve of his source, but why should he need approval from anyone?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The term "dew drop" can refer either to a small amount of morning moisture or an 1800s baseball term meaning a slow pitch.

(It's also part of the name of a tongue-in-cheek tavern near where I live: the Dew Drop Inn.)

Again, since the 15th century, dewdrop meaning morning moisture is a single word, only remotely related to the two word baseball pitch.

Please don't quote incorrect definitions.

I would debate with you 'til hell freezes over that encouraging new writers to avoid first person POV until they found their feet did more to help writers than your arrogant approach including, " I don't read stories but this is what you should do."

Your thread here has nothing to do with editing and, whilst interesting but ill-informed, should be in AH.

Your abilities are paramount but the poison that you and scouries have poured into SF has destroyed the forum. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[sr71plt]

Sorry, I'm laughing too hard at you and your inanities to be ashamed of anything (especially anything I haven't actually done/am not doing).

 

[sr71plt]

Through the dreary center of town

"Main Street," the name of the principal street in so many towns, by 1810 had come, in literature, to be a euphemism for "mediocrity, small-town materialism." The usage really stuck after the publication of Sinclair Lewis's novel, Main Street, in 1920.

Main Street wasn't as mediocre and depressing for Lewis as it was for the rest of us--it made him an equivalent royalty of over $3 million in current money.


These tidbits are mainly based on Barbara Ann Kipfer's book, Phraseology. Where other sources are used, they will be given. Observations from other sources are quite welcome, preferably with the source identified.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Again, since the 15th century, dewdrop meaning morning moisture is a single word, only remotely related to the two word baseball pitch.

Please don't quote incorrect definitions.

I would debate with you 'til hell freezes over that encouraging new writers to avoid first person POV until they found their feet did more to help writers than your arrogant approach including, " I don't read stories but this is what you should do."

Your thread here has nothing to do with editing and, whilst interesting but ill-informed, should be in AH.

Your abilities are paramount but the poison that you and scouries have poured into SF has destroyed the forum. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Have you seen posts by Busybody, Mike Yates, Nipples McGee, and many many others? Yet you state that fun facts being shared is destroying this forum. It is too laugh.

 

[sr71plt]

Which War?

The term "fifth column" is said to be from the Spanish Civil War, when a general sated he had four columns encircling Madrid and a fifth column (traitors) working for him in the city.

These tidbits are mainly based on Barbara Ann Kipfer's book, Phraseology. Where other sources are used, they will be given. Observations from other sources are quite welcome, preferably with the source identified.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Have you seen posts by Busybody, Mike Yates, Nipples McGee, and many many others? Yet you state that fun facts being shared is destroying this forum. It is too laugh.

No, I love fun facts and would be more than happy to join in a fun thread on the AH.

The EF has a defined purpose and this is not unsubstantiated phraseology. sr has complained often enough that scouries misuses SF (as he does) but is hypocritical enough to do the same on EF.

EF has nothing to do with 'fun facts' as the many writers hoping to get someone to help them might possibly tell you.

 

[sr71plt]

sr has complained often enough that scouries misuses SF

I'm game. Give links to three examples. Two? One? Making it as you go along again, Elfin?

 

[sr71plt]

In the dumps

The term "skid row" as used to denote the most derelict part of town is thought to be a bastardization of the term "skid road," coined in 1851 to depict the track of skids alng which loggers rolled logs. The use of calling the part of town inhabited by loggers skid row is reported to originate in 1906, which by 1915 was being used to refer to the town's most derelict district. This can be (or not) a different part of town than the red light district, where brothels congregate, a term in use as far back as 1894.

These tidbits are mainly based on Barbara Ann Kipfer's book, Phraseology. Where other sources are used, they will be given. Observations from other sources are quite welcome, preferably with the source identified.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

sr has complained often enough that scouries misuses SF

I'm game. Give links to three examples. Two? One? Making it as you go along again, Elfin?

Typical politicians' eyewash, avoiding the question.

You have 'done a scouries' by maliciously ignoring the stated purpose of this forum to run an irrelevant promotion of your limited research ability.

As scouries has in trying to destroy the purpose of story feedback.

Both of you are amusing in a kind of 'pat on the head' sense, but the damage you both do to important forums is incalculable.

 

[PennLady]

Typical politicians' eyewash, avoiding the question.

You have 'done a scouries' by maliciously ignoring the stated purpose of this forum to run an irrelevant promotion of your limited research ability.

As scouries has in trying to destroy the purpose of story feedback.

Both of you are amusing in a kind of 'pat on the head' sense, but the damage you both do to important forums is incalculable.

I'm lost -- what's the question?

Stated purpose of this forum? If you really feel he's broken some rule here, PM the appropriate moderator. No one seems to mind this thread but you.

I don't know what scouries did in the Story Feedback forum, or when, but it seems to be doing just fine.

Damage? What damage?

 

[sr71plt]

Here to there

Today's tidbit doesn't come from Kipfer's book (is that a sigh of relief I hear from Elfin? Or her balloon deflating yet again?), because Kipfer's book doesn't mention it. But "from pillar to post" came up on the forum today.

It was used in only one of several meanings--all equally arcane--to be the same as "from way over here to way over there," or "wall to wall" or the more down-to-earth "full of it." An Internet discussion of the term, given at the URL below, gives explanations for the term that, well, go from way over here to way over there.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pil1.htm

 

[_Lynn_]

Typical politicians' eyewash, avoiding the question.

You have 'done a scouries' by maliciously ignoring the stated purpose of this forum to run an irrelevant promotion of your limited research ability.

As scouries has in trying to destroy the purpose of story feedback.

Both of you are amusing in a kind of 'pat on the head' sense, but the damage you both do to important forums is incalculable.

The thread brings people to the EF . . . something that wasn't happening much before. So how does that 'damage' the forum?

You're free to start a thread you believe is 'appropriate' instead of complaining about this one.

 

[NaughtyGingerBoy]

My primary source for this thread is Barbara Ann Kipfer (PhD), The Definitive Compendium of Phraseology, Naperville, Ill: Sourcebooks, Inc., 2008.

One of the reasons I started this thread was to check out whether anything I posted, no matter how innocuous and directly related to writing--and well sourced--would be attacked by my harassers. Guess we know the answer to that now.

I'll continue posting, using good sources. You can take what interests you and harass me on the rest.

So...if I understand you correctly, you intended or expected some to attack your thread...
Why then do you feel the need to reciprocate in kind? It speaks possibly of arrogance in your part to suggest this after the fact, all you've done is point out that people may disagree with you. This is true of many things but to know it beforehand doesn't give you any high ground, perhaps allow people to disagree and discuss it with them. Otherwise you're just as bad.

On this note...I haven't read all 10 pages yet. If something similar to this has been posted I shall defer to it.
Thanks

 

[CarlusMagnus]

So...if I understand you correctly, you intended or expected some to attack your thread...

Of course he expects attacks. The paranoids have been after him ever since I can remember.

And I expect you've noticed that they are the ones who are wrong—always. Never he.

 

[NaughtyGingerBoy]

Of course he expects attacks. The paranoids have been after him ever since I can remember.

And I expect you've noticed that they are the ones who are wrong—always. Never he.

Well...I just understand why you'd acknowledge people will attack what you've said...then join in their argument. petty or notified this was intellectual then surely trying to draw them into the conversation would be better.

I was only attracted to this thread as I saw the word phraseology....it interests me and so I took a look.
Turns out it's really just one person quoting a book he's got till others got the idea that they could join in...I just can't work it out and it seems a little sad that a brief visit to another part of this forum has discovered what appears to be a small minded argument. Sadtimes

 

[sr71plt]

Obviously I'm giving you two--and Elfin--an opportunity to back bite, which you enjoy. So, all good.

 

[NaughtyGingerBoy]

Obviously I'm giving you two--and Elfin--an opportunity to back bite, which you enjoy. So, all good.

Enjoy?
Now I am getting confused, all I am saying is that it seems odd you'd give people the chance to bite(odds are someone will so you don't need to give them the chance) and then happily point it out...I just don't get why you'd bother at all.
I have no idea who you or elfin are...I haunt even lurked in this part of the forum before...cutting me some slack might be a bit more internet fluffy.

 

[NaughtyGingerBoy]

Obviously I'm giving you two--and Elfin--an opportunity to back bite, which you enjoy. So, all good.

Enjoy?
Now I am getting confused, all I am saying is that it seems odd you'd give people the chance to bite(odds are someone will so you don't need to give them the chance) and then happily point it out...I just don't get why you'd bother at all.
I have no idea who you or elfin are...I haven't even lurked in this part of the forum before...cutting me some slack might be a bit more internet fluffy.

 

[NaughtyGingerBoy]

(apologies for the double post)

 

[sr71plt]

Did you have a phrase or a comment on a phrase you wanted to share, Naughty. If not, what is it you want from this thread?

If you're commenting on what I posted about how some other posters would use this thread for off-point purposes, obviously I was right. And you obviously want to join in.

 

[NaughtyGingerBoy]

Did you have a phrase or a comment on a phrase you wanted to share, Naughty. If not, what is it you want from this thread?

Fair enough....brass monkeys?

Usually used to suggest it's cold, I've heard a couple of different origins(both naval).
One suggests certain parts used on cannons were brass...when cold they'd freeze up. The other was similar...cannonballs(I think) would be stacked but again due to similar weather conditions affecting the metal, the stackstack would topple over. Does your book or perhaps another source give a different answer?


Alt: why is £25 called a pony?

 

[sr71plt]

Kipfer isn't helpful on this term. (As has already been noted, she isn't helpful on a lot of terms). She just says, without sourcing, that it's slang for very cold weather.

A ₤25 pony must be totally a Britiscism (in fact, the Internet suggests it's specifically linked to London). I have no idea what it means, and Kipfer isn't any help.

Here's some supposition from the Internet on the origin:

Even though the exact origin of the term is not known, it is generally believed that the pony, slang for 25 pounds, is derived from the typical price one had to pay for a small horse. In those times, however, a sum of 25 pounds would have been an unusually high price for a pony.

http://www.blurtit.com/q274995.html