please tear me apart

[Wolvesheart]

Spell check

Ain't it Gawd awfil Mavelous we no longer have to use "White Out"???

The best out there enjoy the new advantages of spelling aids etc., to help get their point across, legibly.

I count spell check as high on the list of valuable contributions to society as I do Plastic. However..... and I did say in an earlier post, emotions expressed are never right or wrong,,,,You need to be technically correct in many areas for your work to be digestable to even those you target with it. Study, Practice, memorize, have it for a salad but Get into the language,,,, smiles.

Other than that, I withdraw my soapbox, and wish you all you dream.
Love and Light,,,,,to all
Steven Wolf

 

[Rybka]

Re: Spell check

Ain't it Gawd awfil Mavelous we no longer have to use "White Out"???

The best out there enjoy the new advantages of spelling aids etc., to help get their point across, legibly.

I count spell check as high on the list of valuable contributions to society as I do Plastic. However..... and I did say in an earlier post, emotions expressed are never right or wrong,,,,You need to be technically correct in many areas for your work to be digestable to even those you target with it. Study, Practice, memorize, have it for a salad but Get into the language,,,, smiles.

Other than that, I withdraw my soapbox, and wish you all you dream.
Love and Light,,,,,to all
Steven Wolf

Don't you mean:
"Ain't it Gawd awfil Mavelous we know lounger has two use "Whit Out"???

The beast out their enjoy the knew adventages of speiling aids extc., too help got there point accros, legable.

Eye kount speel chex adze high own the list off valauble contrabuttons too soceity adze Eye dew Plastique. How ever..... an Eye deed say inn and earlyer post, emmotoins expresed am never rite oar wong,,,,Yew kneed 2 bee teknicaly corect inn maney arreas four you're work too bee digestable two evan them yew targat width it. Sturdy, Practise, memmorise, half it four a saled butt Git inntwo the langauge,,,, smilez.

Other then that, Eye widthdraw my soupbox, an wish yew awl you're dreem.
Luve an Lite,,,,,2 Al"

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[pointless]

mmmm soup.

 

[Angeline]

Poetic

about the shifting from conversational to poetic: that is intentional. i'm sorry to see that it isn't working for most of you. i have an aversion to being overly poetic in my writing. it also seems so over the top too me that i try to relax it a bit by making it more natural. i know it can be awkward(sp? that word never looks right to me), but i like that occasionally.

I think natural in poetry is good. I love modern stuff as much--probably more--than oh, I dunno, 17th-century English poets (though I do consider myself a card-carrying member of the dead poets' society ). Take a look at these examples of 20th-21st c. poets.

This is from Ted Berrigan, a poet I idolize. He was a member of the New York school of poets (e.g., Ginsberg, Corso, etc., but Berrigan wrote a bit later--1960s-70s). He's not 'traditional' poetically, but the way he manipulates sound and image creates great poetry, imho. This poem, "Last Poem" was, ironically, his last (he died way too young).

Last Poem

Before I began life this time
I took a crash course in Counter-Intelligence
Once here I signed in, see name below, and added
Some words remembered from an earlier time,
"The intention of the organism is to survive."
My earliest, & happiest, memories pre-date WWII,
They involve a glass slipper & a helpless blue rose
In a slender blue single-rose vase: Mine
Was a story without a plot. The days of my years
Folded into one another, an easy fit, in which
I made money & spent it, learned to dance & forgot, gave
Blood, regained my poise, & verbalized myself a place
In Society. 101 St. Mark's Place, apt. 12A, NYC 10009
New York. Friends appeared & disappeared, or wigged out,
Or stayed; inspiring strangers sadly died; everyone
I ever knew aged tremendously, except me. I remained
Somewhere between 2 and 9 years old. But frequent
Reification of my own experiences delivered to me
Several new vocabularies, I loved that almost most of all.
I once had the honor of meeting Beckett & I dug him.
The pills kept me going, until now. Love, & work,
Were my great happinesses, that other people die the source
Of my great, terrible, & inarticulate one grief. In my time
I grew tall & huge of frame, obviously possessed
Of a disconnected head, I had a perfect heart. The end
Came quickly & completely without pain, one quiet night as I
Was sitting, writing, next to you in bed, words chosen randomly
From a tired brain, it, like them, suitable, & fitting.
Let none regret my end who called me friend.


Berrigan also wrote sonnets. Here's an excerpt from one:

Sonnet XXXV

You can make this swooped transition on your lips
Go to the sea, the lake, the tree
And the dog days come
Your head spins when the old bull rushes
Back in the airy daylight, he was not a midget
And preferred to be known as a stunt-man

His language is conversational, but he puts it together poetically. "Last Poem" is both literal and metaphoric--it is possible to do both. And the sonnet is the most traditional of forms, but he combines an everyday voice with odd images that become metaphors.

Here's another sonnet, this one from U.S. Poet Laureate Billy Collins. It's totally conversational, but full of metaphoric imagery

to launch a little ship on love's storm-tossed seas


insist the iambic bongos must be played


Sonnet

All we need is fourteen lines, well, thirteen now,
and after this one just a dozen,
to launch a little ship on love's storm-tossed seas,
then only ten more left like rows of beans.
How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan
and insist the iambic bongos must be played
and rhymes positioned at the ends of lines,
one for every station of the cross.
But hang on here while we make the turn,
into the final six where all will be resolved,
where longing and heartache will find an end,
where Laura will tell Petrarch to put down his pen,
take off those crazy medieval tights,
blow out the lights, and come at last to bed.


There are so many ways to write poems, I think. And variety is good, but whether you're William Blake, Emily Dickenson, or these guys I've quoted, the basic idea of "saying it without saying it" doesn't change.

 

[Wolvesheart]

WOW

Fer da furst tyme in my lyfe, Iam witouth werds.....Nice to see we can laugh about "whyte Ouit" "Out damn spot"
Steven Wolf

 

[pointless]

dear god in heaven look at the typos!!

i really need to learn to not type faster then i can think. i haven't looked in this thread for a week. thanks again to everyone for the comments and ignoring the laziness in my posts. i posted a new one if anyone cares to go look at it. i'll post a link if i feel like it later.

 

[Wolvesheart]

thinking

Pointless,

No matter what you or anyone else believes, thinking should never be the major issue in writing, no matter the subject. Typing skills rarely matter anymore either in this age of technology.
I think I may have mentioned to at least one of the group, I rely heavily on self editing, spell check, and those close to me at times, for correctness, (is that even a word???), and critique.
The goal, even for the purist, is to spew it out, fill pages, and then decide what works and what doesn't,,,after the fact. This doesn't apply to a submission all the time, but as Reverend Wolf also says, emotions expressed are far more important initially, than analyzing the emotion,or the reason you feel compelled to put it in print.
I know I ramble, I know I may sound preachy(not to be confused with peachy) but I know what the "H" I'm talking about, as do many of your other contemporaries here.
There "AIN"T no rite or rong",,, just do it! If you feel moved to say what your spirit feels, then by all means do so, and take whatever suggestions happen as beautiful lessons on your road to satisfaction in what you express.
You have been missed in your absence, and I know you missed us,,,smiles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It takes a whole lotta medicine darlin, for me to pretend I'm somebody else."

 

[pointless]

Re: thinking

Pointless,

No matter what you or anyone else believes, thinking should never be the major issue in writing, no matter the subject. Typing skills rarely matter anymore either in this age of technology.
I think I may have mentioned to at least one of the group, I rely heavily on self editing, spell check, and those close to me at times, for correctness, (is that even a word???), and critique.
The goal, even for the purist, is to spew it out, fill pages, and then decide what works and what doesn't,,,after the fact. This doesn't apply to a submission all the time, but as Reverend Wolf also says, emotions expressed are far more important initially, than analyzing the emotion,or the reason you feel compelled to put it in print.
I know I ramble, I know I may sound preachy(not to be confused with peachy) but I know what the "H" I'm talking about, as do many of your other contemporaries here.
There "AIN"T no rite or rong",,, just do it! If you feel moved to say what your spirit feels, then by all means do so, and take whatever suggestions happen as beautiful lessons on your road to satisfaction in what you express.
You have been missed in your absence, and I know you missed us,,,smiles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It takes a whole lotta medicine darlin, for me to pretend I'm somebody else."

you certainly are a queer duck, but i think i might be coming close to understanding you. thanks.

 

[Wolvesheart]

Pointless reply???

Ummm, would you mind using eccentric or weird as a description? No offense to any of my gay friends,,,thank you. AND my feet are not webbed...smiles
I say what I think, and I'm probably even a bit older than your Dad, which would explain your feelings.
I'm like the announcer at a race track, shouting out who's in the lead. I call em as I see em Angel, so just think of me as someone who is so passionate about what we do, that I want all of us to succeed in whatever way we have chosen to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It takes a whole lotta medicine darlin, for me to pretend I'm somebody else"

 

[pointless]

eccentric will work just fine. i meant no offense. i've just learned to be cautious in my time here in the wild, wonderful world of lit. some peoples compliments here are more of the backhanded variety and there are plenty here who dabble in ironic sarcasm. some try original delivery to mask their attempts at bitterness towards others. i just needed to make sure you were not one of those.

and sometimes i'm not the brightest match in the book. either way, it's all good.

and my dad is 62 halfway to 63.

 

[Senna Jawa]

a poem by pointless

WickedEve comments on a pointless poem

First stanza:

      I had a vision of you in a bright, red dress
      Dancing like a whore just for fun.
      You were smiling, your eyes shined
      Like bright, ugly stars in the night sky
      That hangs repressively over my mind.

Ugly stars really jumps out at me. I don't think bright stars being ugly works. I'd either change ugly or stars.

Pointless, it's better to forget the remaining stanzas (and to be sure, this first one too). Believe it or not but the other stanzas are even worse. There is more than enough junk in this one stanza to comment about anyway.

How is dancing by whores different from dancing by other women? Pointless, did you dance with a whore? Did you see any whore dancing? Was there anything characteristic to whores, something about their dancing that whores share and other women don't? BTW, you are talking about dancing in a (bright, red) dress, hence I am reading it literally as dancing and not as their professional activities.

Pointless, the great thing about true poetry is that it abhors bullshit. The remaining three lines of the stanza are just that too, bullshit.

Pointless, if your ego is fragile, get away from poetry as fast as you can or even faster.

 

[pointless]

are you just making a comment on everything i've writen here or just on this one poem? the others may not have liked what i've written, but at least they criticsized the poem instead of deriding it. perhaps there was a reason i chose this one to be torn apart?

dancing like a whore = like a flirt, a girl after only one thing: money. it's not my best, but it's not my worst. i have made no claims to greatness, but i won't stop because of one person. i'm trying to improve, to discover my flawes and rid myself of them if at all possible.

trying to piss me off won't make me quit.

 

[Rybka]

Senna Jawa's Criticism

are you just making a comment on everything i've writen here or just on this one poem? the others may not have liked what i've written, but at least they criticsized the poem instead of deriding it. perhaps there was a reason i chose this one to be torn apart?

dancing like a whore = like a flirt, a girl after only one thing: money. it's not my best, but it's not my worst. i have made no claims to greatness, but i won't stop because of one person. i'm trying to improve, to discover my flawes and rid myself of them if at all possible.

trying to piss me off won't make me quit.

Pointless, and I hope it is not your namesake to suggest that you can take or leave all comments or criticisms, work directed or personal as they might be. Having said that:

Senna Jawa is the caviar (or green olives or anchovies, etc.) of this forum's critics. By that I mean that his words almost always have value, but he is an acquired taste.
I do not know anyone who was not offended the first (& second & third...) time he commented on their efforts, or when he even responded to their forum postings. But again there is almost always value in his words. If he REALLY pisses you off, do what I did. - Read all his submitted poems closely, looking for flaws, misused words, and so on. Just reading them will probably help you improve your own efforts. - Of course, at times his attitude still manages to antagonize most of regulars on this forum, even those who have learned to value his words, but all would admit that we would be far worse off if he ever left us.
I am not an S.J. "butt boy", but I will admit that he has influenced/affected me more than anyone else on this site. (Although Lauren.Hynde has given me more direct assistance by far! )

This poetry forum is frequented by many people of talent. Take advice from those you respect, discard the rest. - Always remembering, "Advice is only worth what you pay for it."

Regards,                                 Rybka

p.s.: Always use a spell checker. You misspelled; written, criticized, and flawed (and I excuse the lower case "i").

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: dear god in heaven look at the typos!!

i really need to learn to not type faster then i can think.

Impossible.

 

[Wolvesheart]

Pointless,,,Constructive Critisism

One of the greatest benefits of constructive critisism, I offer in an analogy I had handed to me when I first began this craft.
"Critisism is like vegetables, You may not enjoy them, or even digest them easily, but at some point they benefit you."

I haven't seen any incident yet of "Pointless bashing" that was meant to harm you, disregard your work, or discourage you from what seems to be a passion. As I once said, I have a drawer full of rejection notices, from editors I didn't know, even at this level. My choice was to make trophies of them, eat my ego, and false pride or bravado, and take what they said, to heart.

I know I'm rambling, but I have 2 more examples of why you should accept this.

1. I wrote and submitted a story, about a childhood experience. It was less than 1200 words, and I used the word "would" 57 times, improperly, with regard to tense. I was told so, offered a chance to rewrite, did so, sold the story, and made grocery money.

2. Elizabeth Barrett Browning lived 46 years I believe...correct me and forgive me if I'm off a bit. In her short life she wrote some of the most well known pieces on the planet. Most of her best known work took 5 years before she was satisfied enough to send it off to the publisher.
One piece though, and again, I'm having a block, was less than 130 words, and took her 10 years of rewrites before it went to press.
She was obviously her own, best critic, and her tenacity proved to be worth every word she ever penned.

Take this as words of wisdom from peers, not enemies.

Love and Light,
Wolf

 

[pointless]

Re: Senna Jawa's Criticism

nevermind, i'm not going to argue about this. someone tells me to quit in so many words and everyone comes to his defense when i get a bit pissed about it. fine.

 

[pointless]

Re: Pointless,,,Constructive Critisism

One of the greatest benefits of constructive critisism, I offer in an analogy I had handed to me when I first began this craft.
"Critisism is like vegetables, You may not enjoy them, or even digest them easily, but at some point they benefit you."

I haven't seen any incident yet of "Pointless bashing" that was meant to harm you, disregard your work, or discourage you from what seems to be a passion. As I once said, I have a drawer full of rejection notices, from editors I didn't know, even at this level. My choice was to make trophies of them, eat my ego, and false pride or bravado, and take what they said, to heart.

I know I'm rambling, but I have 2 more examples of why you should accept this.

1. I wrote and submitted a story, about a childhood experience. It was less than 1200 words, and I used the word "would" 57 times, improperly, with regard to tense. I was told so, offered a chance to rewrite, did so, sold the story, and made grocery money.

2. Elizabeth Barrett Browning lived 46 years I believe...correct me and forgive me if I'm off a bit. In her short life she wrote some of the most well known pieces on the planet. Most of her best known work took 5 years before she was satisfied enough to send it off to the publisher.
One piece though, and again, I'm having a block, was less than 130 words, and took her 10 years of rewrites before it went to press.
She was obviously her own, best critic, and her tenacity proved to be worth every word she ever penned.

Take this as words of wisdom from peers, not enemies.

Love and Light,
Wolf

i understand what your saying, but i can't help but think that senna jawa is just an asshole looking to piss me off. the way the post was written was obviously meant to imply that he was lowering himself just to call the poem bullshit. rybka implied that he is very talented and that his critique is of the highest value, but so what? in my opinion, his arrogance makes his words worthless to me. he can take his olympian attitude and shove it up his ass.

 

[pointless]

i'm sorry. i had a bad weekend. now i'm pissed off and can't fucking write. yippy.

 

[Wolvesheart]

Pointless, a bad weekend

This will be my last words on this, then it's back to what I am all about.....That anger may be your best source of material for WRITING. It may not be that this forum is the place to share the venting that is born of that anger, but you may find some healing in doing it.

 

[pointless]

i agree. i do get a lot of good material for my writing from anger, but i can't write when i'm hot. it just comes out as one long, repetive sentence. i need to be calm and clearheaded and in a mood to play with my feelings or it all comes out so whiny and stupid. for an example of this go look at my poem "fuck you." it is the worst poem i've posted here and i wrote when i was angry. some one gave it a 5, but i have no idea why. maybe they were pissed off when they read it, but who knows? i just need to cool down and realize that this doesn't matter. i would have enjoyed reading senna jawas post if just worded a little differently. i don't mind being told that something i've written is bad. i just don't want to see the word bullshit used to describe anything i've done. i know i'm not unusual in that respect.

god, i wish i was high. then i wouldn't give a shit.

 

[pointless]

dark

time to offer up another sacrifice to the dark gods who rule this section of lit. this is another poem that i have recieved no feedback on and no votes( at the moment). feel free to point out its flawes. i'm sure there are many of them. i promise not to get pissed this time if someone calls it bullshit. it will take a lot of effort, but i'll try.

 

[darkmaas]

Dark Gods

time to offer up another sacrifice to the dark gods who rule this section of lit.

I have to disagree. This section is hardly ruled by dark gods, but rather sweet nubiles, who from time to time allow the likes of ... well we won't name names ... to run about posting "wonton"ly.

Welcome and enjoy.

darkmaas

 

[pointless]

Re: Dark Gods

I have to disagree. This section is hardly ruled by dark gods, but rather sweet nubiles, who from time to time allow the likes of ... well we won't name names ... to run about posting "wonton"ly.

Welcome and enjoy.

darkmaas

i meant dark gods in the nicest way possible. i prefer my gods to be nicely tanned or of darker complexion. pale, white gods just make me feel all icky. they really should go out and get some sun.

 

[darkmaas]

Icky white gods...

Oh that smells like a poetry challenge oozing to the surface.

darkmaas

 

[Angeline]

Wonton Women

I'll have a vegetable spring roll, too, please.



And pointless, too much sun is not good, lol.