PoBo Form Master Class Series - The Tanka

[kbate]

My boobs are hurting
twenty nine day cycle again
today I can't wait
for time to bring changes
hot flashes welcome.

No?

anyway....

:emoticon:

hi equinoxe.

 

[Equinoxe]

My boobs are hurting
twenty nine day cycle again
today I can't wait
for time to bring changes
hot flashes welcome.

No?

anyway....

:emoticon:

hi equinoxe.

I'm not sure what the Old Japanese equivalent of "boobs" is, but I'm guessing it never occurs in tanka. The best I can offer is a contemporary tanka (by a Japanese poet, Akitsu Ei):

Why was I given breasts
I wonder,
coming to town
to buy toothpicks
in the cold afternoon​

Ave!

 

[loststar]

silver and rough with age
old wood splinters under my harsh touch
traces of youth in fragments
life’s memories lost to the kind wind
peace and serenity found in this passage

 

[GoddessNyx SwtCheeks]

for International Day of Non-Violence

soft blossoms of snow
frame the timeless untrod road
waiting for springtime
yearning for one simple sound --
healing hope, and all tears shed


(Can someone tell me how to CENTER text on my posts? I tried pasting

once at the beginning of the first line, then at the end of the last one, and it didn't work. Also tried Ctrl + E, and that didn't work either. Thanks)​

 

[sassynyc]

(Can someone tell me how to CENTER text on my posts? I tried pasting

once at the beginning of the first line, then at the end of the last one, and it didn't work. Also tried Ctrl + E, and that didn't work either. Thanks)​

highlight your text, then click the 'center' button (2 spaces to the right of the 'underline' button)

whenever you type

or

manually, make sure the closing command looks like this: /center , inside brackets
that goes for url's in links as well.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I don't have a centre button (I demand a centre button) and where do you put the commands (sorry blonde you know)

 

[champagne1982]

I don't have a centre button (I demand a centre button) and where do you put the commands (sorry blonde you know)

You do, too. Only when you open the post reply or quote window though. The Quick Reply function only has the basics. There's also a list of html commands in the forum faq pages.

will centre the text but only if you close it with the square bracketed command of /center​

 

[UnderYourSpell]

You do, too. Only when you open the post reply or quote window though. The Quick Reply function only has the basics. There's also a list of html commands in the forum faq pages.

will centre the text but only if you close it with the square bracketed command of /center​

Goes to look .... nope no button and if I could remember how to take a pic of my screen I would show you​

 

[champagne1982]

There's a little square at the bottom of this screen

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Does yours say that?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

yes got that lot

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Wow. These are all so good. So marvelous to read. I'll take a shot and then pose a question.


Like old poems
taken from New-England Primer,
teacher's remark
clings and sinks through pores
chastening and dry as chalk.


Q: is the near-rhyme of remark and chalk deplorable?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I haven't got the buttons
but Sassy taught me the manual way
I hope!​

 

[Equinoxe]

Q: is the near-rhyme of remark and chalk deplorable?

No, I think that's fine—they are different enough vowel sounds.

 

[DocktorWu]

siren light and dark
blossom over black water
mouth less whispering
I ‘m alone with your shadow
see your smile with my owl eyes​

 

[Senna Jawa]

Tree with raw, stripped bark
suffers the forest shadows.
Shielding its lost leaves,
fragile branches wavering
until wind’s refrain ceases.

I'll comment only on the first line.

Tree with stripped bark
​

would be so much better! So why there is that useless, even harmful "raw"? Oh, but of course, it's for the sake of the form, to have 5 syllables. Thus the whole point of the exercise is missed. The form was suppossed to make you work harder.

One has to believe in poetry. One has to believe that poetry is not easy, that just adding a syllable is no poetry anymore. Poetry means that we meet certain requirements. That there is no excuse like "I wanted to fulfill this oh-difficult form". We have poetic forms to force us to write better, not poorer poems. Otherwise poetic forms would be harmful. And due to the common misunderstanding about meeting a form being a success, poetic forms are in a social sense somewhat harmful indeed.

 

[Angeline]

I'll comment only on the first line.

Tree with stripped bark
​

would be so much better! So why there is that useless, even harmful "raw"? Oh, but of course, it's for the sake of the form, to have 5 syllables. Thus the whole point of the exercise is missed. The form was suppossed to make you work harder.

One has to believe in poetry. One has to believe that poetry is not easy, that just adding a syllable is no poetry anymore. Poetry means that we meet certain requirements. That there is no excuse like "I wanted to fulfill this oh-difficult form". We have poetic forms to force us to write better, not poorer poems. Otherwise poetic forms would be harmful. And due to the common misunderstanding about meeting a form being a success, poetic forms are in a social sense somewhat harmful indeed.

You're right. I love writing in forms and think they are good discipline for being precise in one's thinking about which words to choose. But often when the poet (like me; I've done it many times) gets too focused on requirements, the poem is sacrificed to the form. The real trick to form poetry is to write a good poem in spite of the form. And, maybe unfortunately, one needs to write a form (any form) many times to understand this--that the poem is always more important than the form. Even then it is a challenge. But I like challenges.

 

[Senna Jawa]

The real trick to form poetry is to write a good poem in spite of the form.

It should be "method", not "trick", and not "despite" but "thanks to". It's all about the attitude. The attitude should be that the form will force us to go extra length to find poetic solutions, and thus these poetic solutions will be unusual, when the more regular good solutions contradict the form. That's what Boleslaw Lesmian was doing, known for the beautiful originality of his poem. Instead, other poets try regular, satisfactory solutions, and when these solutions don't fulfill the form then they go for compromises, they spoil the text. Then in effect they don't take poetry seriously. They think that such junk still passes for poetry (because they got the form).

Regards,

 

[Angeline]

It should be "method", not "trick", and not "despite" but "thanks to". It's all about the attitude. The attitude should be that the form will force us to go extra length to find poetic solutions, and thus these poetic solutions will be unusual, when the more regular good solutions contradict the form. That's what Boleslaw Lesmian was doing, known for the beautiful originality of his poem. Instead, other poets try regular, satisfactory solutions, and when these solutions don't fulfill the form then they go for compromises, they spoil the text. Then in effect they don't take poetry seriously. They think that such junk still passes for poetry (because they got the form).

Regards,

I looked up Boleslaw Lesmian and found this page of his poems. I'm not sure what you think of the translations or which forms he's using. I'll have to read to identify which, if any, I recognize. This one is beautiful.

In the Dark
Boleslaw Lesmian

The lip is the lip's friend, the hand the hand's
Lying next each other each one understands
To whom he belongs - each one of the buried dead.
Unwillingly the night goes overhead;
The earth asserts itself, but hesitantly;
And leaflessly the leaves move on a tree.
God stirs the wind and space: but He is high
Above the forest's distant forest sigh.
The wind says this to space:
"I'll not be back
Across this forest while the night shines black."
Still darkness thickens, pierced by small starlight.
The seagulls flying over the sea are white.
One says : "I've heard the fate of stars foretold."
The next: "I've watched the heavens themselves unfold."
The third is silent, but because it knew
Two bodies, glowing in the darkness, who
Wove darkness into their embrace: it found
Them made of the caress in which they wound.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I looked up Boleslaw Lesmian and found this page of his poems. I'm not sure what you think of the translations or which forms he's using. I'll have to read to identify which, if any, I recognize. This one is beautiful.

In the Dark
Boleslaw Lesmian

(Translated by Jerzy Peterkiewicz and Burns Singer)


Thank you, Angeline! The time is passing, and I didn't realize till now, that there is some presence of Lesmian's poems in the Internet. There were virtually none some years ago. In music, there were on one hand Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, and on the other hand Paganini and Chopin. In poetry Du Fu is like the first three, while Leśmian is like the latter two. Now, Angeline, that there are Lesmian's poems on the Internet, it would make sense to have one of those classes here (but in a separate thread of course) on his poems. By comparing Lesmian (and Du Fu and Basho-Buson) to others one can see what is and what is not poetry. One can also see where the essence of the poetry is hiding by comparing Lesmian's original poems with their translations. The whole poetry squeezes into that difference, in what is lost. However, that last activity is very frustrating. I tried it in the past and didn't got far since it felt so hopeless and depressing. That said, I still appreciate the above translation which was brought by Angeline. It has a lot of good stuff. Anyway, I don't want to hijack this tanka thread.

Regards,

 

[Angeline]

(Translated by Jerzy Peterkiewicz and Burns Singer)


Thank you, Angeline! The time is passing, and I didn't realize till now, that there is some presence of Lesmian's poems in the Internet. There were virtually none some years ago. In music, there were on one hand Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, and on the other hand Paganini and Chopin. In poetry Du Fu is like the first three, while Leśmian is like the latter two. Now, Angeline, that there are Lesmian's poems on the Internet, it would make sense to have one of those classes here (but in a separate thread of course) on his poems. By comparing Lesmian (and Du Fu and Basho-Buson) to others one can see what is and what is not poetry. One can also see where the essence of the poetry is hiding by comparing Lesmian's original poems with their translations. The whole poetry squeezes into that difference, in what is lost. However, that last activity is very frustrating. I tried it in the past and didn't got far since it felt so hopeless and depressing. That said, I still appreciate the above translation which was brought by Angeline. It has a lot of good stuff. Anyway, I don't want to hijack this tanka thread.

Regards,

I'm not worried about hijacking. It's all still poetry we're discussing, isn't it?

If you are willing to teach the class, I'll stick the thread. I think it's a wonderful idea (and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who would love to see you do this). I'm not sure I want to get too far into comparing poets to types of classical music though I think I see what you are saying. I did notice when I read Lesmian's poems that his writing seems both "modern" and introspective to me. And yet it seems also to draw on Eastern influence, especially this one:

Tango

A nowhere sailing golden boat,
A lilac shore – and my dismay.
Let’s glide in tandem, like two ships,
Not looking at the gleaming floor.

I have more questions and comments but I'll save them for your (I hope!) class.