Poetry in Progress ~ construction zone

[flyguy69]

i agree this has much more meat than the 'pirate' poem. i love the title. it fits perfectly.

i think here too, the metaphor may be played a bit too hard and needs to be toned down.

i'm assuming that 'busses' is spelled correctly, meaning 'kisses.' --

it may help the poem overall if you can make it crystal clear from the start that you are talking about the collapse of a relationship. the terrorism metaphor plays so hard, it might dominate to many readers, which i don't think you want.

it has great potential, to me. i certainly wouldn't put it away any time soon. you have terrific skills, and i think you can find the balance between message and poetics if you work on it some more.

Thanks, Pat. I'll step back and let it steep a couple days before returning to it.

 

[annaswirls]

Damn fly, you always tackle the hardest topics! Let me tell you this before anything else, your line Loan papers are in the basement, let them burn. is as good of a line as I have read. Did you start with that?



Opposing Systems of Belief get the name changed on the birth certificate before it is too late

On Orange Alert we lock down
bridges and busses, scramble jets
and messages for loved ones:
Always remember I love you, darling! <--think about what you would really say.which means its opposite: <--opposite?

Loan papers are in the basement, let them burn.


much of this middle part is too far away, in my opinion, from what matters most in this poem, which to me is the loan papers in the basement. I know I know it is not my poem...

try to twist it less political and more poetic?

it is hard to explain, but this really could be cut down, to take out some of the more extreme images and loaded words...

Infidels slip in while our cold shoulders
are turned, spread their ideology
with banners that read
Pleasure is Justice, (I really do not understand this) but mean
the opposite: We don’t talk,
anymore. Their propaganda

foments unrest in the ghetto
of midlife, breeding
snappish assassins wired
with boredom WOW what an awesome line, the sound snappish delivers such a vivid message. They detonate

daily, claiming bits of lives unnecessary
with slights and acts
of contempt. Icy martyrs,
they spill cold tears at night and cry out
I love another! the opposite
of Art favors those who suffer.

Our relationship snags
on the box-cutter edge. But I, the patriot, this language is so loaded with meaning, represents such a wide variety of interpretations, I am not sure you want to use it. I immediately think of the Patriot Act, which to me holds so many negative connotations... I dont think that it is needed here, what was your intention

will go down swinging. As towers loom <again confused, towers? Do you mean the twin towers? why are they looming?
I type out Honey,
loan papers are in the basement, let them burn.[/QUOTE]


maybe it is just me, but these political poems are so tricky. You have some awesome lines in here.....and a awesome base. I just think you need to cut the more political "propoganda" that is embedded in the very words you chose to include.

You are once again a brave (and talented) man! I wonder what you will take on next....



oh wait, I am not in the thin-skinned thread! I hope you do not mind this no holds barred review!!! Sorry!

 

[flyguy69]

Damn fly, you always tackle the hardest topics! Let me tell you this before anything else, your line Loan papers are in the basement, let them burn. is as good of a line as I have read. Did you start with that?



Opposing Systems of Belief get the name changed on the birth certificate before it is too late

On Orange Alert we lock down
bridges and busses, scramble jets
and messages for loved ones:
Always remember I love you, darling! <--think about what you would really say.which means its opposite: <--opposite?

Loan papers are in the basement, let them burn.


much of this middle part is too far away, in my opinion, from what matters most in this poem, which to me is the loan papers in the basement. I know I know it is not my poem...

try to twist it less political and more poetic?

it is hard to explain, but this really could be cut down, to take out some of the more extreme images and loaded words...

Infidels slip in while our cold shoulders
are turned, spread their ideology
with banners that read
Pleasure is Justice, (I really do not understand this) but mean
the opposite: We don’t talk,
anymore. Their propaganda

foments unrest in the ghetto
of midlife, breeding
snappish assassins wired
with boredom WOW what an awesome line, the sound snappish delivers such a vivid message. They detonate

daily, claiming bits of lives unnecessary
with slights and acts
of contempt. Icy martyrs,
they spill cold tears at night and cry out
I love another! the opposite
of Art favors those who suffer.

Our relationship snags
on the box-cutter edge. But I, the patriot, this language is so loaded with meaning, represents such a wide variety of interpretations, I am not sure you want to use it. I immediately think of the Patriot Act, which to me holds so many negative connotations... I dont think that it is needed here, what was your intention

will go down swinging. As towers loom <again confused, towers? Do you mean the twin towers? why are they looming?
I type out Honey,
loan papers are in the basement, let them burn.

maybe it is just me, but these political poems are so tricky. You have some awesome lines in here.....and a awesome base. I just think you need to cut the more political "propoganda" that is embedded in the very words you chose to include.

You are once again a brave (and talented) man! I wonder what you will take on next....



oh wait, I am not in the thin-skinned thread! I hope you do not mind this no holds barred review!!! Sorry![/QUOTE]
Mind? I am delighted!

It is clear that the metaphor has taken over much of the poem's impact, and left the message an abandoned waif in a bombed-out building (oops, there it goes again!).

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[annaswirls]

maybe it is just me, but these political poems are so tricky. You have some awesome lines in here.....and a awesome base. I just think you need to cut the more political "propoganda" that is embedded in the very words you chose to include.

You are once again a brave (and talented) man! I wonder what you will take on next....



oh wait, I am not in the thin-skinned thread! I hope you do not mind this no holds barred review!!! Sorry!

Mind? I am delighted!

It is clear that the metaphor has taken over much of the poem's impact, and left the message an abandoned waif in a bombed-out building (oops, there it goes again!).

Thank you for your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

thank YOU for the poem! can you sum the message non-poetically? I know that is cheating as a reader, but it would help me help.

You write with such power, flyguy
I am running away from the sexual metaphor I want to use so badly...

run run run!

 

[flyguy69]

Mind? I am delighted!

It is clear that the metaphor has taken over much of the poem's impact, and left the message an abandoned waif in a bombed-out building (oops, there it goes again!).

Thank you for your thoughts.

thank YOU for the poem! can you sum the message non-poetically? I know that is cheating as a reader, but it would help me help.

You write with such power, flyguy
I am running away from the sexual metaphor I want to use so badly...

run run run![/QUOTE]
You want me to explain the poem? How about I just plunge a knife into its belly and spill its guts on the floor? How about I hold a pillow over its face until it quits kicking?

 

[PatCarrington]

How about I hold a pillow over its face until it quits kicking?

isn't that murder? an opposing system of belief?

i think you should tone down the terrorism metaphor instead and enhance the collapsing relationship, which is the heart of the poem, or was meant to be.

i think anna may have been swallowed with the metaphor as i suggested some might be, and allowed it to dominate -- it is strong enough to mask the real poem, which would mean it's TOO strong.

 

[flyguy69]

isn't that murder? an opposing system of belief?

i think you should tone down the terrorism metaphor instead and enhance the collapsing relationship, which is the heart of the poem, or was meant to be.

i think anna may have been swallowed with the metaphor as i suggested some might be, and allowed it to dominate -- it is strong enough to mask the real poem, which would mean it's TOO strong.

I always was a sucker for tabasco.

 

[annaswirls]

thank YOU for the poem! can you sum the message non-poetically? I know that is cheating as a reader, but it would help me help.

You write with such power, flyguy
I am running away from the sexual metaphor I want to use so badly...

run run run!

You want me to explain the poem? How about I just plunge a knife into its belly and spill its guts on the floor? How about I hold a pillow over its face until it quits kicking?
[/QUOTE]


no, don't explain it
dont dismember it
or asphyxiate
just a brief introduction so I can say hello and shake its hand.

 

[annaswirls]

isn't that murder? an opposing system of belief?

i think you should tone down the terrorism metaphor instead and enhance the collapsing relationship, which is the heart of the poem, or was meant to be.

i think anna may have been swallowed with the metaphor as i suggested some might be, and allowed it to dominate -- it is strong enough to mask the real poem, which would mean it's TOO strong.

sheesh guess I should have read PC's review before reading the poem. I did NOT get the collapse of a relationship at all, I saw it as kind of a doomsday scenario--get something out of it, let the past burn....like the papers kind of thang

 

[Angeline]

isn't that murder? an opposing system of belief?

i think you should tone down the terrorism metaphor instead and enhance the collapsing relationship, which is the heart of the poem, or was meant to be.

i think anna may have been swallowed with the metaphor as i suggested some might be, and allowed it to dominate -- it is strong enough to mask the real poem, which would mean it's TOO strong.

Senna Jawa told me once that I shouldn't write about history or politics (we were discussing my poem Lodz) unless I could do it from the standpoint of personal experience, by which I don't think he meant I had to be there, but that I had to make it real. I think that's good advice and I think your point, Patrick, gives the poem a more personal perspective--something I find engages me more as a reader.

 

[rikaaim]

This is a poem just recently written in a moment of depression. I won't post it because too many of my friends will get concerned when it is not necassary. It's just emtions of a moment, come and gone. Please no one be worried about me. I am really fine.


Do I stay?

Do I go?

To leave now and stop the cycle.

To end it all and let them live in peace.

Who would miss me?

Who would care?

Who's even going to read this?

What does any of it matter?

Attention whore.

That's what they'll call me.

Liar.

That's all I am.

Go ahead.

Label me.

I can't even see the words on the screen.

The gleam shines too bright off the image of the knife.

Go ahead.

Scream.

 

[PatCarrington]

.....

 

[flyguy69]

Removed per request

 

[PatCarrington]

Some beautiful lines in here, Pat. So many I can't begin to quote!

The poem starts slowly for me-- there is nothing particularly engaging about the first strophe. It is an important contrast to the grandmother, but it doesn't hook me. I wonder about rearranging a bit.

"Mourners" in S5 didn't give me more of her story: was it her loss, or a slave's loss, or loss in general? Was she a slave? Was she widowed?

In the last strophe you use the pronoun "they" for hands immediately after discussing a third-person narrator and the grandmother's face. Readers can figure it out, but some clarity here would help.

I didn't care for "...like a woman, closer than...": because it suggests a woman is closer than any love or tatoo. I would just take her out of the equation. This is a nit, though.

Alright, I will quote one. "They were clean/because she had wept on them/so often, and marked fields/and flesh with their chaste blood" is beautiful.

thanks, fly.

sometimes, i really think we transmit on the same wavelength. i was in the middle of trying to compress the first strophe when i read your comments. it is there mostly for contrast, and is essential in that regard for later lines to bounce off of, but it IS too much a part of the poem, size-wise.

and...i was looking for the best way to give her hands a "universality" to better connect to the slaves and mourners (perhaps by just place the word universal in a good spot.)

and...i had already changed the last few lines (removing "woman") to:

I stared until I knew
I wanted to grow up clutching
their beauty and scars to me,
closer than any love or tattoo.


i can't tell you how helpful your comments always are, and what an astute reader you are.

what frequency is this, anyway?

 

[flyguy69]

thanks, fly.

sometimes, i really think we transmit on the same wavelength. i was in the middle of trying to compress the first strophe when i read your comments. it is there mostly for contrast, and is essential in that regard for later lines to bounce off of, but it IS too much a part of the poem, size-wise.

and...i was looking for the best way to give her hands a "universality" to better connect to the slaves and mourners (perhaps by just place the word universal in a good spot.)

and...i had already changed the last few lines (removing "woman") to:

I stared until I knew
I wanted to grow up clutching
their beauty and scars to me,
closer than any love or tattoo.


i can't tell you how helpful your comments always are, and what an astute reader you are.

what frequency is this, anyway?

It is the frequency that allows me to peer onto your desktop through the monitor, apparently.

BTW, your virus protection software is woefully out-of-date and your photos are stored in 15 different folders. And tell the girl filling your coffee cup that her top button is undone.

 

[Angeline]

??????????????????

Is it nude
when hips clash against
and into is bare, into
is dressed in each other's skin?

How does nude describe
the grace of eyes,
chest weak with panting
and the palpable rise
of tenderness wet
with care, drunken
tears or desire

in copses, nothing
there beyond pines
and a whine of wind.

Headlights dance,
trane whistles pull blue
over tracks tight
as a scream and soft
as a scraw of feathers
when I am undone, disappeared
into my own swallow
and the sigh that answers
twisted on your mouth.

What affirmation is nude
poised on a Grecian urn,
satyr never quite reaching,
holding his nymph?

What is nude
to this naked
earth that yields
to knees and elbows
burrowed in the stars
locked together and lost
in a solitary space, but for what
our fingers remember?

 

[flyguy69]

Headlights dance,
trane whistles pull blue
over tracks tight
as a scream and soft
as a scraw of feathers
when I am undone, disappeared
into my own swallow
and the sigh that answers
twisted on your mouth.

Holy moley! Gimme ice water!

 

[Angeline]

Holy moley! Gimme ice water!

I guess that answers my question.

I was just thinking too what a good editor you are though I see you're going with succinct here.

Thank you.

 

[flyguy69]

I guess that answers my question.

I was just thinking too what a good editor you are though I see you're going with succinct here.

Thank you.

Was your question "can I boil a man's blood with just a stream of words?" Then, yes.

This has a lot of Gamrath grammar to it, which always throws me off, but it works because you are presenting a poem stripped of constraints-- nude words. Still, I would add an article before chest. The grecian urn doesn't add anything for me, and "for" in the penultimate line seems wrong.

The strophe I quoted before is raw, eyeball-popping lust. You should warn folks before they read it.

 

[Angeline]

Was your question "can I boil a man's blood with just a stream of words?" Then, yes.

This has a lot of Gamrath grammar to it, which always throws me off, but it works because you are presenting a poem stripped of constraints-- nude words. Still, I would add an article before chest. The grecian urn doesn't add anything for me, and "for" in the penultimate line seems wrong.

The strophe I quoted before is raw, eyeball-popping lust. You should warn folks before they read it.

I consider Doug such an influence on my writing. He taught me a lot in his gently kooky way, but I often wonder whether that influence comes across. You made me smile with "Gamrath grammar." I wasn't trying, but I see what you mean--and your suggestions are excellent. I'm always taking out articles and conjunctions because I think they overtake the images, but sometimes it's too much.

There's a certain amount of eagleyez influence in the style, too. I stole "scraw of feathers" from him outright, but yknow I washed his socks today so I figure I'm entitled.

Thanks again, Fly. I much appreciate the feedback.

 

[champagne1982]

This is a poem just recently written in a moment of depression. I won't post it because too many of my friends will get concerned when it is not necassary. It's just emtions of a moment, come and gone. Please no one be worried about me. I am really fine.


Do I stay?

Do I go?

To leave now and stop the cycle.

To end it all and let them live in peace.

Who would miss me?

Who would care?

Who's even going to read this?

What does any of it matter?

Attention whore.

That's what they'll call me.

Liar.

That's all I am.

Go ahead.

Label me.

I can't even see the words on the screen.

The gleam shines too bright off the image of the knife.

Go ahead.

Scream.

Hey there Rika. There's a lot of strong, evocative language in this, but are you doing what you want to do to your reader with this poem? I realize that during this writing you were likely conveying your emotions of anger and loneliness, but I would much rather emote than react. Do you understand what I mean?

As your poem rests now, I tend to sigh and feel exasperated when I read through it because I feel you're trying to scare me or maybe to gain my sympathy. That would be getting a reaction. If I need to read cutter and suicide threat poetry, I'd much rather find a piece that makes me understand your motivations through stronger symbology.

Instead of telling me the gleam shines too bright, show me through a piercing lancet of brightness. When you can't see the words on the screen explain that your vision is blurred by the salty pain of tears held back. What happens if you release your tears? Did Mom or Dad hurt you more because you cried?

For personal agony poetry to work, I think the poet needs to revisit the pain. Many people can't go back to that black place they've managed to kick free of and this, I'll bet, is the real reason that there are very few 'pain poems' that are good reading.

Keep putting your work out there, though. We get better through the experiences of reading and writing. Your friends are right. There is talent here, but for talent to produce anything worth looking at more than once, the artist needs to do a little work.

Thank you for being brave enough to share your poem.

 

[flyguy69]

I consider Doug such an influence on my writing. He taught me a lot in his gently kooky way, but I often wonder whether that influence comes across. You made me smile with "Gamrath grammar." I wasn't trying, but I see what you mean--and your suggestions are excellent. I'm always taking out articles and conjunctions because I think they overtake the images, but sometimes it's too much.

There's a certain amount of eagleyez influence in the style, too. I stole "scraw of feathers" from him outright, but yknow I washed his socks today so I figure I'm entitled.

Thanks again, Fly. I much appreciate the feedback.

Well, the next time ee throws out a line like "scraw of feathers" let me know-- I want to steal one, too!

I'm headed into Doug's backyard tomorrow. I'll be in Sister Bay for a week.

Happy writing!

 

[RhymeFairy]

I wander
through the night
a target
it seems

long swift shots
at my heart
to take me
apart

throw your knives
darts too
for I am going
no where
this I state

all I see
all I am
I will stand
with thee
in my heart

shoot me full
drag me down
take all I am
I will not depart

I have found
happiness
I know this dog's you
bad
so go away
your makin me
mad

take your aim
real nice n
tight
for after today
you will see no
night

armor of steel
bullet proof
break the glass
in case of emergency

I will not fall
I am strong
without you
I will not
break

happiness swirls
close in my hand
I tell you
I shall stand

do your worst
try to take me
down
I am
scum-proof~

 

[RhymeFairy]

dream of you
dream of me
dream of us
at the sea

long cool drinks
slow body rubs
sun beatin down
so lost in love

all we are
all we share
together my love
alone
on the beach playin,
in our chair.

hugs so tight
kisses so long
all my love baby
all night, day,
year ...

till forever
is gone ~

 

[Tathagata]

"What's with all the death?"
they ask,
perplexed foreheads that pass for concern
now some hieroglyphic question mark of annoyance
"ghosts and graves and mausoleums.
You depressed,
unhappy?
Do you want to talk?
You can talk to me."

So I tell them:
In old paintings there was always
something,
off in a corner
or under a table,
that represented death,
because
it is always there.
That's how I see things,
that's all.

They look at me moon faced,
blank,
as if I had just handed them a dead pigeon.

You see?
I can't talk to you
and now I've ruined paintings for you too.

Perhaps I should have shrugged
and smoothed the carpet of mortality under their feet.

Some days I just don't feel like dancing.