Politics and Porn

[Netzach]

When Sessions comes for the weed and porn, I can't wait to see how the tantrumy boys of the internet are gonna act. That will be excellent.

 

[MeekMe]

When Sessions comes for the weed and porn, I can't wait to see how the tantrumy boys of the internet are gonna act. That will be excellent.

There are certainly more important topics, but this made sense for the forum at the time and I thought it would have died long before now. It's sort of evolved into a general polical thread.

And I agree, the hate surfacing now isn't some kind of coincidence. I'll add that while I haven't had anything directed at me, I've been the one to comfort my friend after she was harassed at work for her religion and have been listening to friends and family threatened by the policies of this new administration. If the ACA takes a hit like they want, I think my sister will have to wait a lot longer for a needed surgery. It's blowing my mind how some people can't see how things could go terribly wrong.

 

[Netzach]

There are certainly more important topics, but this made sense for the forum at the time and I thought it would have died long before now. It's sort of evolved into a general polical thread.

And I agree, the hate surfacing now isn't some kind of coincidence.

I would love to be worried about my life on that level - and most of my income comes from Adult, so my dog in the hunt is quite different. And yet, somehow, I have bigger worries at the moment!

And yet, STILL - my worries are a yellow drop in the hideous golden shower bucket compared to those of people I still care about, even if they aren't ME or MY FAMILY, so that's where my worry, energy, extra cash, and thoughts are, at the moment.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Netzach]

There are certainly more important topics, but this made sense for the forum at the time and I thought it would have died long before now. It's sort of evolved into a general polical thread.

And I agree, the hate surfacing now isn't some kind of coincidence. I'll add that while I haven't had anything directed at me, I've been the one to comfort my friend after she was harassed at work for her religion and have been listening to friends and family threatened by the policies of this new administration. If the ACA takes a hit like they want, I think my sister will have to wait a lot longer for a needed surgery. It's blowing my mind how some people can't see how things could go terribly wrong.

They see it. They do not care.

I don't like to be the bearer of that kind of news, but the sooner we accept this, the more we can focus on caretaking and protecting people who will need it, whether self or other.

 

[MeekMe]

There's been some cross posting. I worry a great deal and not just because of or only for friends and family. I do what I can.

 

[Netzach]

You're right that Hillary has a flawed record. Plenty of Black people detest her for her "superpredator" remarks and associated history. But those same people still recognised that Trump was much, MUCH worse on such issues; there's a reason Hillary picked up 88% of voters from that demographic, vs. just 8% for Trump, and why David fucking Duke views Trump's election as a triumph. The story on LGBT issues is pretty similar./[/url]

Voting Dem is always like slapping yourself in the face.

If 90 percent of Black women voting in the US can hold their nose and not hand it all to Joey No Socks' BFF because HRC is kind of crap (and she is) , then by God, I could do the same.

 

[Primalex]

When you have a choice between two evils, the good choice is to pick the less evil of the two.

And people made their choice what they consider the lesser evil.

doesn't care if they have adequate healthcare to live independent and dignified lives

Pretty please - there are countries out there who have social healthcare since 1883. It's not like a new invention Obama came up with, so what is with all those years before Obama? It's simple, the population does not care, but this are not really big news that has been a fact since this fucking country was founded. It's not like the last 4 years there was a sudden growth of ignorant people. The States have always been the capitalist epitome of "survival of the fittest".

People don't change? Please tell me more. It took a fucking civil war to end slavery.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Except for the people who are distressed about the election results and feel there's a need to protest, I guess?

Nope. They're also allowed to 'feel' however they want too. I'm not stopping them. But I also shouldn't be accosted in the street by screaming/ranting protestors declaring that everyone who does not agree with them is a racist, xenophobic, sexist piece of shit. Just sayin'...those who spew hate belittle their cause against that same type of hate.

 

[Primalex]

Except for the people who are distressed about the election results and feel there's a need to protest, I guess?

I feel the need to protest against rain on holidays.

 

[Netzach]

Nope. They're also allowed to 'feel' however they want too. I'm not stopping them. But I also shouldn't be accosted in the street by screaming/ranting protestors declaring that everyone who does not agree with them is a racist, xenophobic, sexist piece of shit. Just sayin'...those who spew hate belittle their cause against that same type of hate.

Oh, I see. Only Nazis in suits get free speech.

 

[Netzach]

Pretty please - there are countries out there who have social healthcare since 1883. It's not like a new invention Obama came up with, so what is with all those years before Obama? It's simple, the population does not care, but this are not really big news that has been a fact since this fucking country was founded. It's not like the last 4 years there was a sudden growth of ignorant people. The States have always been the capitalist epitome of "survival of the fittest".

People don't change? Please tell me more. It took a fucking civil war to end slavery.

Dude, you are preaching to the choir here, for the most part. However, the incremental shitty improvements to the shittier status quo aren't exactly worth throwing away without a fight. I remember all too well how it *was* and I'm still paying for it.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Oh, I see. Only Nazis in suits get free speech.

Yes! That was exactly my point. I'm glad to see your comprehension skills at work!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Nope. They're also allowed to 'feel' however they want too. I'm not stopping them. But I also shouldn't be accosted in the street by screaming/ranting protestors declaring that everyone who does not agree with them is a racist, xenophobic, sexist piece of shit. Just sayin'...those who spew hate belittle their cause against that same type of hate.

No, it's not "the same type of hate". Not remotely. And being called "racist" - even if it were unjustified - is not remotely comparable to the evils of actual racism, the kind that actually kills actual people.

*dusts off the ignore button*

 

[Bramblethorn]

And people made their choice what they consider the lesser evil.

Many did. But I suspect many made their choice on some other grounds and then put a lot of effort into convincing themselves that the two evils were equal, so that they could live with that choice. It's pretty common in human nature.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

No, it's not "the same type of hate". Not remotely. And being called "racist" - even if it were unjustified - is not remotely comparable to the evils of actual racism, the kind that actually kills actual people.

*dusts off the ignore button*

I actually think you will actually say anything just to prove you are actually right. But guess what...I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. Prejudice is prejudice, no matter what shape, color, or form it takes. If you are harboring a hatred for people you don't even know, based on a preconceived opinion of that group as a whole, then I'm sorry to tell you...you're prejudiced!

-Dust off that ignore button, press it in, shove a wedge in there, and seal it in concrete. Thanks!

 

[KimGordon67]

you are going down to basics. As I said before, EVERYBODY do risk assessment when meeting new people. There's not one person who will meet a new guy or girl in ANY environment, and will not do a risk assessment. From basics, like looks, body language, facial expression - to others like the setting you meet in or the words they say.

You will always do this "risk assessment" that you are talking about.
Meet someone in the street? You evaluate risks.
Meet new co-workers on your first day at the job? You evaluate risks.
Go into public transport - you evaluate the risks of everyone around you.
Walking doen the street - you will evaluate everyone you see.
Meet a friend's Best friend at the party? You still evaluate the risks.
A relative? Guess what, it doesn't make him/her less risky!
The list can go on forever.

What you said, what I disagreed with strongly, what tryin2Bgood disagrees with - is that risk assessment when being approached by a guy on the street - is anything special. It's not - not for a lot of women I know, and not in my experience. Not in tryin2Bgood's experience either. I can relate with that.

You argue it makes the woman deeply uncomfortable, and that's, again, what I disagree with, what trying2Bgood is trying to relay to you.
There are numerous encounters in the day-to-day life of an average woman (or man) that are more scary than a guy who liked your looks and wants to get to know you better.

I never said there are no women who are afraid of such things. But then again, there are people who will be afraid of almost anything. There are people who will be afraid if you are tall, regardless where you meet them and what are the circumstances. You ask for directions on the street - BAM! Chances are you just made someone feel terror for a brief moment.
The fact that such poor people exist - is not the reason to stop interacting with anyone AT ALL. Such people exist, yes. Like 1% of them. It's their problem that they learn how to deal with - they rarely expect everyone around to change their day-to-day behavior for them.

There. Shit. I'm dragged into this discussion again, but your blindness is almost startling. You see what you want to see.
I guess I'll make an effort and try not to post again. It's useless anyway.

Obviously we all do risk assessment all the time. I never denied that. What I'm arguing here is that this is particular KIND of risk assessment that is specifically gendered. Men are almost never approached by women in public spaces and, barring those who experience particular kinds of social anxiety, are unlikely to have such an approach make them nervous. NUMEROUS women (not just in this thread - in the whole freaking world) report such encounters happening regularly and MANY of them find them irritating at best, and unnerving at worst. (Well, actually the 'at worst' scenario is a lot worse than that, but you get my point.) Both the times I've been assaulted in public spaces, it's been by men who have started by giving me some 'compliment'. That doesn't mean that all the men who have complimented me have assaulted me, but all the men who have assaulted me have complimented men. And they are the ONLY people who have assaulted me in public spaces. And I'm far from the only woman who would say that. Why do you THINK we're told to not walk down the street in the dark?

It doesn't mean I 'live in fear' of men - that's precisely why I DO walk down the street whenever I choose to, because it's my street too, and I'm not going to let some creep decided that I 'shouldn't be there' because they can't control themselves or whatever lame excuse they come up with. But I also neither need nor want some random stranger to tell me to 'smile' because I'd look prettier, or that they like my tits. Try being a 14 year old girl who needs a 14DD bra for a year or so - trust me, it is NOT nice having those 'compliments' all the time. And before you say 'oh, those are just creeps', it's all part of the same discourse in which men feel they are entitled to pass comment on how we look in public spaces, and we're meant to be pleased they noticed us. I see plenty of women, and men, who I think are attractive. I don't feel the need to let them know what I think - I'm pretty positive they really don't give a f*ck.

I interact with people in public plenty. I just don't start those interactions with a comment on their personal appearance because ... well, it's just not necessary, and there's too much potential for it to seem a bit creepy.

There's little point engaging in this discussion any more as it's just going around in circles. Make your no doubt necessary last word, and I'll leave it at at that.

 

[Nezhul]

Men are almost never approached by women in public spaces and are unlikely to have such an approach make them nervous.

Oh please.
A woman approaching a man is such a rare thing that you can't help but think what her ulterior motives are.
Doesn't mean you refuse her, however.

 

[KimGordon67]

Oh please.
A woman approaching a man is such a rare thing that you can't help but think what her ulterior motives are.
Doesn't mean you refuse her, however.

Of course you freaking don't, because there is pretty much NO likelihood that she's going to sexually assault you. It's not a HIGH likelihood for women either, but it does happen - as my life and the lives of countless of women aptly illustrate. That's my actual POINT.
(Interesting that you assume women have 'ulterior motives' ... but men are just being friendly. Hmmm.)
And I don't 'refuse' guy who randomly compliment me or approach me in public. I just don't engage.

 

[Nezhul]

I'm sorry that you are traumatized, but that doesn't make the experiences of all other women and their reactions same as yours

 

[Primalex]

Many did. But I suspect many made their choice on some other grounds and then put a lot of effort into convincing themselves that the two evils were equal, so that they could live with that choice. It's pretty common in human nature.

It's amusing how you pretend that you can foresee the future and that you believe that there is some kind of universal morality that allows simple deduction.


Let's cut to the chase:

Is it okay to throw out all illegal immigrants, if this reduces the poverty rate in cities like Detroit from currently 42% down to acceptable 7% and with this also the crime rate (because poverty generates crime, not race)?

[ ] Yes.
[ ] No.

It's a simple question. The question is not whether there is actually a correlation or how likely this is or any other things you will come up with an argument now why you are going to refuse to answer that question. It's a very simple moral dilemma.

Okay, I know you are going to avoid this one, so I modify the dilemma a bit:


You are an eyewitness to a crime: A man has robbed a bank, but instead of keeping the money for himself, he donates it to a poor orphanage that can now afford to feed, clothe, and care for its children. You know who committed the crime. If you go to the authorities with the information, the money will be returned to the bank, leaving a lot of kids in need. What do you do?

[ ] Turn the robber in.
[ ] Shut the fuck up.

So tell me, what is the lesser evil?

Bonus question:
How many people who turn the robber in hate children?

 

[KimGordon67]

I'm sorry that you are traumatized, but that doesn't make the experiences of all other women and their reactions same as yours

Good grief. I'm NOT traumatised. And this is NOT an isolated experience for women. And I'm NOT universalising my experiences. As I stated above, clearly some women do enjoy this sort of attention ... but I personally don't think that the extremely well documented displeasure it causes for a significant chunk of the female population warrants the pleasure it creates for others. (I'll post a quick selection of links below that demonstrate the 'well document' nature of the situation - this is just a random lot of stuff I found Googling.) That's obviously just my personal opinion - it's a simple cost/benefit equation, but the result depends on how much weight you attribute to the costs and the benefits.

http://www.yourtango.com/2014224361/love-dating-sexual-harassment-catcalling-really-means

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/statistics/sshstudies/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...-with-your-outfit_us_56af6938e4b00b033aafb86a

https://www.ditchthelabel.org/a-females-perspective-on-catcalling/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...gs-men-including-catcalling-asking-smile.html

http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/05/men-approach-women-on-street/

See - I'm really NOT the only woman in the world (or even in this thread) who feels this way.

 

[Nezhul]

You post links to catcalling and harrasment. Maybe you should post rape links then?

I'm not talking about catcalling "Hey, baby, nice ass!". That's rude.

I'm talking about polite open approach, which is normal practice and is not more threatening than asking for directions or time. What makes it threatening is your head.

I entered this thread again only because I can relate with tryin2Bgood, what she said. That approaches are not threatening. I'm sure she's not talking about catcalling or grabbing her on the street types of situations.

And again. Cat calling just never happens in Russia. It's so rare that it's bizzare. No one would whistle or tell a girl she has a nice ass, or make any other inappropriate comment. It's just not in out culture. At all. Everybody understands that you'd do such things only if you want to be a dick and annoy someone - it will not get you ANYWHERE.

What you post in your links - is completely off-topic.

It's like saying "You know, murder happens, so now everyone is afraid to go out of their houses to the shop on the corner, 'coz you never know! Every time everyone I know goes out of their home, they think about how they could be murdered by a maniac in a few minutes! They take risk assessment, and it's not a nice feeling! So stop asking your friends out, please, if you care about them at all."
Exaggerated, but that's what you say.

 

[Netzach]

It's amusing how you pretend that you can foresee the future and that you believe that there is some kind of universal morality that allows simple deduction.


Let's cut to the chase:

Is it okay to throw out all illegal immigrants, if this reduces the poverty rate in cities like Detroit from currently 42% down to acceptable 7% and with this also the crime rate (because poverty generates crime, not race)?

[ ] Yes.
[ ] No.

It's a simple question.

It's a simple question along the lines of "your baby is strapped to a time bomb, do you torture the kidnappers"

it's simple, but flawed, in that it's NOT at all accurate to any reality.

You're talking about something like it's a mad lib or a logic puzzle, but the premise that the undocumented are WHY Detroit is like that, or that Detroit would be fine if they were removed is so unbelievably shitty that entertaining the question becomes its own immorality.

Am I the only person who's done some deep reading on Detroit in this room? Any Detroit or even MI folks here? I do recommend learning about it, because it's really very interesting and very illuminating. And it's both a unique situation and a template for other problems, but people tend to focus on the "template for all urban problems in USA" reading, which isn't especially true or useful.

But in your part 2, no I would not, and yes they kind of do. It probably would have been less "in my feels" prior to the collapse and bailout.

 

[Netzach]

I'm sorry that you are traumatized, but that doesn't make the experiences of all other women and their reactions same as yours

Yeah, no, it pretty much is. Leave people the fuck alone.

I'm also attracted to pretty ladies, and guess what. Leave people the fuck alone. It's not that hard, unless you feel that your dick is more important than anyone and everyone else's day.