Politics and Porn

[ToPleaseHim]

How does one define an "innocent" approach for sure? I have been drawn in by guys who turned out to be creeps and realized in retrospect that I was overlooking some obvious red flags. I have been in a bitchy mood and shut some guy down harshly who didn't deserve it. And I have engaged or easily managed many approaches.

For me the issue lies in the highly imperfect ability to make a distinction when there may be real and immediate consequences. There is no universal definition of "innocent" and if there was dirt bags would read up on it. Any risk assessment takes into account both the probability and consequences of a negative event.

All other things being equal (and even if not) I find a bull mastiff more threatening than a golden retriever.

I read it as she was describing the intent of the man involved. He would know his intentions, innocent or otherwise.

You are absolutely correct, though. We all judge based on our own schema. Perception often does not match the intent of the other person involved, especially when they are unfamiliar with one another.

 

[SlutAddicted]

This may be a tangent but I was having a conversation with someone recently about the distorted portrayal of sexual relations in porn. We agreed that porn is not a realistic portrayal but the person I was talking to raised a good point. What is a realistic portrayal of sex? Where does one look for an accurate portrayal of what it is or should be? Is what your mom or your priest told you the right view? Based on what? The last several groups who tried to tell us what sexuality should be and impose that view on us were pretty suspect.

 

[KimGordon67]

This may be a tangent but I was having a conversation with someone recently about the distorted portrayal of sexual relations in porn. We agreed that porn is not a realistic portrayal but the person I was talking to raised a good point. What is a realistic portrayal of sex? Where does one look for an accurate portrayal of what it is or should be? Is what your mom or your priest told you the right view? Based on what? The last several groups who tried to tell us what sexuality should be and impose that view on us were pretty suspect.

I can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread, but there's some pretty depressing research about how the increased availability of porn has led to it being a sex ed tool for a lot of teens, with predictably unpleasant results. Not that I'm anti-porn at all - but when some of it is used as a 'model' for those just entering the wonderful world of sex, it's not the best.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread, but there's some pretty depressing research about how the increased availability of porn has led to it being a sex ed tool for a lot of teens, with predictably unpleasant results. Not that I'm anti-porn at all - but when some of it is used as a 'model' for those just entering the wonderful world of sex, it's not the best.

I completely agree. I don't mean to suggest porn is the template. Especially the more misogynist stuff is an appalling example. But if we want to develop a more constructive approach as a society we need to decide more than what we are against. Denial of our sexuality has never worked. And in some ways I think those attempts have provided fertile ground for the things that have been so destructive.

We need to find a positive version of sexuality. And I mean all sexuality not just the sanctioned version.

 

[Nezhul]

I wouldn't say porn leads to unhealthy/bad experiences. Bad parenting does. Somehow none of my parents ever talked with me about sex, other than a "use condom, son" talk. And I'm into BDSM porn, including things like insex does. I've been watching things from, like, 14 years.

And yet, somehow, I always had a mind to know that grabbing a girl by her hair, tossing her on the bed, slapping her face and then deepthroating her - was good only after gaining a consent to do so, in case she was interested.

What porn can teach you is how to eat pussy, or how to suck cock. A few positions to try. A porn is a fairy tail, and I don't hear anyone here blaming cartoons and fairy tails for teaching kids stupid unpractical things.
That's pretty much it. A sane person understands it. If they don't - it's the problem of parenting, not porn, IMO.

The only bad that it can give - are unrealistic expectations. You see those dudes fuck a girl for 30 minutes traight, and then you pop after 15 seconds of your first intercourse.
But again, I'll disagree that it's a porn's fault. I somehow knew WAY before my first sex that I wouldn't perform like a god. I don't know where I got the idea. I also goggled the solution and trained to last longer. I was aware that if you cum too soon you can go down on the girl and satisfy her orally, or wait a few minutes and go at it again. You don't roll away.
And I think girls are also aware of the limitations of male performance.

In fact, I find that first sex becomes much less awkward because of porn, because you know what to expect and where to stick it. I can't imagine the amount of extra stress that I'd have if I saw pussy for the first time on an actual woman. Oh, I know I'd manage, because somehow humanity managed to reproduce without video for thousands of years. But it would be awkward.

 

[KimGordon67]

I wouldn't say porn leads to unhealthy/bad experiences. Bad parenting does. Somehow none of my parents ever talked with me about sex, other than a "use condom, son" talk. And I'm into BDSM porn, including things like insex does. I've been watching things from, like, 14 years.

And yet, somehow, I always had a mind to know that grabbing a girl by her hair, tossing her on the bed, slapping her face and then deepthroating her - was good only after gaining a consent to do so, in case she was interested.

What porn can teach you is how to eat pussy, or how to suck cock. A few positions to try. A porn is a fairy tail, and I don't hear anyone here blaming cartoons and fairy tails for teaching kids stupid unpractical things.
That's pretty much it. A sane person understands it. If they don't - it's the problem of parenting, not porn, IMO.

The only bad that it can give - are unrealistic expectations. You see those dudes fuck a girl for 30 minutes traight, and then you pop after 15 seconds of your first intercourse.
But again, I'll disagree that it's a porn's fault. I somehow knew WAY before my first sex that I wouldn't perform like a god. I don't know where I got the idea. I also goggled the solution and trained to last longer. I was aware that if you cum too soon you can go down on the girl and satisfy her orally, or wait a few minutes and go at it again. You don't roll away.
And I think girls are also aware of the limitations of male performance.

In fact, I find that first sex becomes much less awkward because of porn, because you know what to expect and where to stick it. I can't imagine the amount of extra stress that I'd have if I saw pussy for the first time on an actual woman. Oh, I know I'd manage, because somehow humanity managed to reproduce without video for thousands of years. But it would be awkward.

Nezhul, I'm really sorry to AGAIN contradict your personal experience with research, but there's been a fair bit of work done that demonstrates that young men are expecting young women (and I'm talking high school age here) to engage in acts that are clearly inspired by porn. Things like anal sex, cumming on their faces, etc. I obviously don't have a problem with these things per se, but I don't really think they should be the first sexual experiences. This is NOT universal, but it clearly does happen.

Fairy tales actually do similarly teach kids a lot of stuff about gender roles etc etc. While you may be immune to this stuff, there's a plethora of evidence that cultural representations simply DO have an effect on how we see ourselves, each other, and the world in general. Just to be clear, I'm NOT anti-porn, and I'm NOT even suggesting that porn pervasively shapes male-female sexual relations, but it is clear that, in the absence of other, more reliable sexuality education, if young men use porn as their information source, it's likely (NOT inevitable) that they'll expect things to be how it seems on the screen. (I'm not going to bother finding links to support this argument, because I very much doubt you ever read anything that doesn't support the point you're trying to make.)

 

[Nezhul]

I never said people were not inspired, so I agree with you.

I'm just saying it's not a problem of PORN. It's a problem of PARENTING.

You don't see young men act out stupidly based on cartoons and comedy movies. Because they are told the difference between fiction and reality.
Porn is fiction. But if that's the ONLY reference they have had to intergender relationship - then their parents fucked up their duty to relay to them how to act with a girl.

If a guy wants anal sex with a girl on their first night - he's stupid ass, and that's still not a problem of porn. If we start looking at idiots when writing or shooting fiction - we need to immediately ban 80% of books and movies, including most of the classics. Because some dumb fuck will be there to look at it and get hurt, or hurt someone else.

I'm sorry to contradict your smart-ass contradiction of me, where there was none, because you misunderstood the message. Again.

 

[KimGordon67]

I never said people were not inspired, so I agree with you.

I'm just saying it's not a problem of PORN. It's a problem of PARENTING.

You don't see young men act out stupidly based on cartoons and comedy movies. Because they are told the difference between fiction and reality.
Porn is fiction. But if that's the ONLY reference they have had to intergender relationship - then their parents fucked up their duty to relay to them how to act with a girl.

I'm sorry to contradict your smart-ass contradiction of me, where there was none, because you misunderstood the message. Again.

Yes, I agree that parents have a responsibility to address the situation, but I think describing a lack of attention to that as 'fucking up their duty' isn't super-helpful - I'm guessing you don't have kids, so you probably don't know a great deal of the huge mass of stuff we actually have to do to raise relatively responsible human beings ... and also, kids, like all human being, are not only influenced by their parents. They're surrounded by culture that teaches a whole lot of stuff, some of which we don't think is great. The comparison of 'acting stupidly based on cartoons and comedy movies' is overly simplistic - firstly, cartoons obviously aren't real; secondly, kids do learn a lot from that stuff - just not the straight cause-and-effect relationship that people are often looking for. They do, however (to repeat myself) learn a lot about things like gender roles, body image, etc. Porn, however, is often presented as 'reality' in a way that cartoons aren't - and, as you note, is often the only source of information young men have. (As a side note, there is a pretty clear link between the prevalence of waxed genitals in porn and the increasing prevalence of waxed genitals in the general population, which seems to be evidence that porn does affect people's behaviours.)
Yes, parents should be addressing this, and I'm totally behind that - but the reality is this doesn't always happen, and that's it mortifyingly embarrassing for most people to talk about sex at all, let alone with their children - that's not an excuse, but it is understandable. I'm not BLAMING porn - I'm just pointing to the existence of an issue that needs to be recognised and hopefully dealt with.

 

[Nezhul]

Yeah, I don't have kids, but I was somehow raised properly in this respect, which proves that my education was not fucked up. Even though there was never sex talks. I just have a deep understanding that there's such thing as vanilla sex, and it's there for a reason. Do you think a lot of porn-watching people think that anal sex is a vanilla thing? I don't think so. In fact, even oral sex is bordering the vanilla lines.

The problem starts when a guy can't understand that anything other than vanilla is a niche thing and may not be appreciated by a girl. OR, even worse, when he does understand it but doesn't care, brushing it off on her being whimsical.
Those are problems with basic education. With thoughtfullness and respectful behavior.

I'm not saying that raising kids is easy. But these are things that are basic, and that should be one of the first things the parents address in their upbringing.
Carefull, calm thinking.
Respect to others.

Often it's just not addressed at all. That's why I'm saying it's fucked up. The scary thing is that more and more people nowadays have no understanding of basic human interaction at all. The education standards took a nosedive in the last 50 years. That's a fact.

Anyway, my point stands. Porn is a fairy tail, a fiction, and it's made so deliberately. It's not supposed to be an educational tool, and can't be held accountable if anyone views it as such.

It's like saying that action movies with a few dozen body counts are wrong because they make people shoot other people. I know those opinions are there, but it's bulshit. What makes people shoot other people, barring insanity, is bad upbringing that failed to implant the idea of sanctity of life into these guys.
I watch action movies and I enjoy them. But I will never shoot anybody unless my life is on the line, only as self-protection, and even then - it'll be very hard for me to do so.
Then look at some guys who can shoot a dude almost as a joke. Who grow up treating guns not as murder tool, but as big-boy toys or status items, as some kind of masculinity check.

 

[KimGordon67]

Yeah, I don't have kids, but I was somehow raised properly in this respect, which proves that my education was not fucked up. Even though there was never sex talks. I just have a deep understanding that there's such thing as vanilla sex, and it's there for a reason. Do you think a lot of porn-watching people think that anal sex is a vanilla thing? I don't think so. In fact, even oral sex is bordering the vanilla lines.

The problem starts when a guy can't understand that anything other than vanilla is a niche thing and may not be appreciated by a girl. OR, even worse, when he does understand it but doesn't care, brushing it off on her being whimsical.
Those are problems with basic education. With thoughtfullness and respectful behavior.

I'm not saying that raising kids is easy. But these are things that are basic, and that should be one of the first things the parents address in their upbringing.
Carefull, calm thinking.
Respect to others.

Often it's just not addressed at all. That's why I'm saying it's fucked up. The scary thing is that more and more people nowadays have no understanding of basic human interaction at all. The education standards took a nosedive in the last 50 years. That's a fact.

Anyway, my point stands. Porn is a fairy tail, a fiction, and it's made so deliberately. It's not supposed to be an educational tool, and can't be held accountable if anyone views it as such.

It's like saying that action movies with a few dozen body counts are wrong because they make people shoot other people. I know those opinions are there, but it's bulshit. What makes people shoot other people, barring insanity, is bad upbringing that failed to implant the idea of sanctity of life into these guys.
I watch action movies and I enjoy them. But I will never shoot anybody unless my life is on the line, only as self-protection, and even then - it'll be very hard for me to do so.
Then look at some guys who can shoot a dude almost as a joke. Who grow up treating guns not as murder tool, but as big-boy toys or status items, as some kind of masculinity check.

Again, you're making wildly over-simplistic analyses of the effect of media. Try Googling the 'magic bullet' theory of media effects - that's what you're arguing for, and it was disproven decades ago. However, the effects of media (including porn) ARE real. Media (including porn) simply IS part of the culture through which we develop out ideas about things.

I think the basic problem with our discussions is that (even where I'm referring to personal experience), I'm actually basing my points on research and a range of sources, not just my personal experience and opinions. This would be another area in which there's ample evidence that porn does have some affect on some people's sexual behaviour. AGAIN, I'm NOT 'BLAMING' PORN - it's simply a fact, that's demonstrated by research. Again, the relationship is not as simple as 'Bob sees X on PornHub, Bob attempts to do X next time he has sex', but there's a build-up of assumptions about sexual relations among some consumers of porn - including young men - that has an effect of influencing their behaviours.

If you can find me some actual research to back up your perspective that porn has NO effect on people's sexual behaviours, I'd be interested to see it.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

I agree with the parenting aspect of it. Problem is, kids tend to dismiss a lot of sage advice from their parents because they think they're 'too old to know what it's like now days'. And I definitely think porn should be for adults only, but I have no idea how that could be properly regulated with everything out there on the internet.

If porn is introduced too early, I think it can have negative effects. At an inexperienced age, younger adults haven't even learned what real love is yet. And often times, they look at sex as nothing more than an activity, instead of linking it to romance and intimacy between two people who have feelings for each other. That's fine when it's 'just an activity' between two consenting adults, but I think it's important to learn the basics first - how to be tender, loving, caring, and respectful toward your partner before you're thrown into the vast deviance of hardcore porn. Just a thought.

Also, I had never seen a porn video before I lost my virginity, but I still knew how everything was supposed to work. Sure, there was some fumbling around. And there was no way it could have been considered 'great sex'. But part of the fun was discovering and learning how to enjoy and please each other.

So, yeah...I don't really know what, if anything, can be done about younger people being negatively effected by porn because it's already out there...they've already seen it. You can't undo what they already know. Well, now that I've talked myself through this...I guess the only feasible way to counteract it WOULD be good parenting. Huh.

(Probably none of this made sense...it was really hard for me to try to explain without violating any underage rules)

 

[Nezhul]

Problem is, kids tend to dismiss a lot of sage advice from their parents because they think they're 'too old to know what it's like now days'.

When it's presented as a sage advice, from the position of superiority - yes, kids dont like it.
But admit it, when someone is trying to sell you some universal truth from a position of smug all-knowingness, acting as if he's smarter and superior to you in every way - you reject him, even if there may be some fair points to what he says. That's a normal human reaction that gets even more pronounced in kids, who often don't have enough experiences to think logically and acknowledge the rightness of you.

Instead if you make the child to see some sense, to provide him or her with examples that help him to gain the right insights on their own - then you'd be onto something.
I don't say you can always do it though. With kids, sometimes you just have to teach them the hard way, by issuing orders or punishing them. That's education too.

But it's still up to the parents to do everything they can to generate the right moral standings in their kid. And argue with me if you will, but you can't really train a child like a dog and hope for a good result. You can't just tell them things and hope they never disobey or question you. You need to make them see the benefits or the right way and the dangers of the wrong ones. So that they learn to make the right decisions by themselves.
Also, if you want to have less arguments about your views being too old - stay with the times. Some things may seem bizzare to you, and they would be bizzare in your time, but you should consider where things stand NOW. Some things get OK. Hell, maybe in 20 years it would be OK for girls to go topless or in see-through outfits in broad daylight. Sure, you can forbid that to your daughter all you like. But she'll disagree with you, and in her time - she'll actually be right.
You can try to bring your children up conservatively, but the best (or worst) you can achieve is making them socially awkward. And in most cases you will just end up with "my parents don't know anything" thoughts in your child.
There are things that are health-threatening, like drugs - and I don't include those here. Even if they were legal I'd bring my kids up to never use them, as best as I can. But there are also thing that you may consider immoral or weird - but that are actually a norm among the younger generations. Those, I believe, you should allow, but just make sure to generate an understanding of the consequences and how far they can be taken.

Bringing it back to sex, your children need to be mentally equipped to consider the feelings of their partner. To see the benefit of talking before doing, of moving slowly and gently in their explorations. To accept the partner's views and desires or lack of those.
There is a clear benefit to all of those. A girlfriend will let you cum on her face no problem, if you care to generate the right emotion and connection. Maybe not the first time, but with a right approach 95% of women will, and will go it gladly. If you manage to establish trust, your sex will be much better eventually.
The problem is that people don't see those benefits, don't understand the difference between fiction and reality.

I like to read kidnapping stories, for fuck sake - they turn me on. But I only see cons in doing this in real life. Those stories are not bad in and on themselves. It's when people are not brought up properly - is when it gets bad.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

When it's presented as a sage advice, from the position of superiority - yes, kids dont like it.
But admit it, when someone is trying to sell you some universal truth from a position of smug all-knowingness, acting as if he's smarter and superior to you in every way - you reject him, even if there may be some fair points to what he says. That's a normal human reaction that gets even more pronounced in kids, who often don't have enough experiences to think logically and acknowledge the rightness of you.

But it's still up to the parents to do everything they can to generate the right moral standings in their kid.

Bringing it back to sex, your children need to be mentally equipped to consider the feelings of their partner. To see the benefit of talking before doing, of moving slowly and gently in their explorations. To accept the partner's views and desires or lack of those.
There is a clear benefit to all of those. A girlfriend will let you cum on her face no problem, if you care to generate the right emotion and connection. Maybe not the first time, but with a right approach 95% of women will, and will go it gladly. If you manage to establish trust, your sex will be much better eventually.
The problem is that people don't see those benefits, don't understand the difference between fiction and reality.

I like to read kidnapping stories, for fuck sake - they turn me on. But I only see cons in doing this in real life. Those stories are not bad in and on themselves. It's when people are not brought up properly - is when it gets bad.

In theory, your views on parenting are great. In reality, it's much more complicated than that. And there are so many outside influences that contribute to shaping a young mind, the best you can hope for is that some of your advice gets through, and that you have raised them to be confident and intelligent enough to make good decisions on their own. Probably one of the best ways to do that is 'lead by example'. If you have a healthy relationship with your partner, and your children grow up seeing a loving, affectionate, and respectful example of that, it helps. But not everyone with kids always has their shit together. Some parents just aren't home enough to make a greater impact in their kids lives. So, in part, it is society's duty to make the world a better and safer place for them.

People need to be mentally equipt to consider the feelings of their partner: I agree with that. The thing is, many adolescents are NOT mentally OR emotionally equipt yet. That's why there are so many laws against underage smoking, drinking, and porn. Society's attempt to protect them.

Not sure I agree with your 95% example. I honestly don't know, so I can't argue with you. I'm not really sure what the right emotion or connection is needed to respectfully ask a girl to let you cum on her face. (Not trying to be a smartass...just imagining how that conversation would go). And I, as an adult, don't have a problem with it, but I think when I was younger I might have looked at it differently. Again, not really sure about this one.

Anyway, I agree that good parenting is essential, but my original point was that I do think porn can be damaging when consumed by people that are too young to fully understand it.

As a side note: It's tough trying to grow up in the messed up world we have these days. (Peer pressure, bullying, internet dangers, increase in teen suicide, social media issues, and a mess of other things to deal with all during a time when just trying to discover 'who' you are.)

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Nezhul]

It is a current news story in uk that it is suggest porn or porn understanding be encorprated into sex Ed.

I'd actually support that initiative heavily. It's not like you can prevent kids from viewing porn nowadays anyway. Internet is everywhere, and they often know how it works better than parents do. So better have them prepared to porn instead.

The only concern - people who read such courses are often over-thinking things to extremes, and the result turns out to be actually worse than nothing at all.

I don't have kid, so I can't say for definite. But I'm an IT person, and when I have a child, the moment I see porn sites on the logs - I'm having a talk myself.

 

[Primalex]

I agree with the parenting aspect of it. Problem is, kids tend to dismiss a lot of sage advice from their parents because they think they're 'too old to know what it's like now days'. And I definitely think porn should be for adults only, but I have no idea how that could be properly regulated with everything out there on the internet.

Very much like everything else that is considered illegal.

You need to spend quite some time to find illegal things while regular porn jumps at you when you just browse for seemingly innocent terms. I've never seen advertisements for the "latest bestiality movie", yet they are produced.

I remember, how the computer scientists laughed back when China gained significant internet access, how they could never control the content, the Internet was designed to survive a nuclear war etc. etc.. Yeah, well, they all shut up when it turned out, they fucking can in a sufficient way - because people / business owners rather start self-censorship than risk going to jail. The very same effects you see here, too. You cannot mention underage persons even in a context where it's not illegal, just because the admins don't want to be bothered to make a case-by-case call.

It's just so much easier to remove all pictures with female nipples then making a call what is pornographic and what not and then other people complain that breastfeeding got censored. I wish I would know a deviant mother who would let me take a picture of how she breastfeeds while riding a cock and then post the picture on Facebook, just to cause an online civil war whether this should be allowed or banned.

It's tough trying to grow up in the messed up world we have these days. (Peer pressure, bullying, internet dangers, increase in teen suicide, social media issues, and a mess of other things to deal with all during a time when just trying to discover 'who' you are.)

I think it's a world that is too used to blow things out of proportion, in really all aspects.

A 6-year-old kissing the hand of a girl? Sexual harrassment.
A wedding in a normal church? Ludicrous.
A president who rehearses a speech? Inconceivable.
A virgin with 21? Failure.

...

 

[Primalex]

In theory, your views on parenting are great. In reality, it's much more complicated than that. And there are so many outside influences that contribute to shaping a young mind, the best you can hope for is that some of your advice gets through, and that you have raised them to be confident and intelligent enough to make good decisions on their own.

Real story: The 6-year-old neighbor kid laughing at my 5-year-old nephew because he doesn't have his own smartphone yet.

 

[Primalex]

I wouldn't say porn leads to unhealthy/bad experiences. Bad parenting does. Somehow none of my parents ever talked with me about sex, other than a "use condom, son" talk.

Is this now good or bad parenting?

Or is it good because you turned out "good" (in your point of view)?

But again, I'll disagree that it's a porn's fault. I somehow knew WAY before my first sex that I wouldn't perform like a god. I don't know where I got the idea. I also goggled the solution and trained to last longer.

When you knew that it was unrealistic anyway, why did you bother training?

Because it shaped an expectation that you wanted to fulfill or at least get closer to.
And you consider this a healthy effect of porn on your sex life?

As stage magician your illusions would be entertaining.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Real story: The 6-year-old neighbor kid laughing at my 5-year-old nephew because he doesn't have his own smartphone yet.

Totally believable. I can't even count the number of toddlers in strollers I see with their own little baby iPad to keep them busy. They're starting early these days.

 

[Nezhul]

Is this now good or bad parenting?

Or is it good because you turned out "good" (in your point of view)?

It's probably bad, but I turned out good regardless.
The point is that it's not really the sex talks that make you a considerate lover. It's not about your parrent sitting with you one day and explaining the dos and donts. It's about bringing you up as a sane person, not about "the talk".

When you knew that it was unrealistic anyway, why did you bother training?

It's not unrealistic as such, it's just hard or nigh impossible to nail on your first attempts. If I'm not too TOO excited (which happens) - I can keep on the intercourse for a good 15-20 minutes now. I really doubt I'd last that long if I wasn't paying attention but just fucking and cumming.

Because it shaped an expectation that you wanted to fulfill or at least get closer to.
And you consider this a healthy effect of porn on your sex life?

Yeah. Yes, why isn't it healthy? I learned that 2 minutes (which was my average masturbation length when I was younger) is not enough to bring most women to orgasm. And if it WAS enough - for me it's way too short of a time to really enjoy the sex.
So... yeah. I can see only benefits in this regard. Do you see any cons at all?

 

[Primalex]

It's about bringing you up as a sane person, not about "the talk".

So Hitlers mother hated jews?

 

[Nezhul]

So Hitlers mother hated jews?

So Hitlers mother did everything right?

That's polemics. You act like a cheap politician-wannabe.

 

[Primalex]

So Hitlers mother did everything right?

Why not?

That's polemics. You act like a cheap politician-wannabe.

You wrote:"What makes people shoot other people, barring insanity, is bad upbringing".

I'm just clarifying your point of view.

 

[KimGordon67]

When it's presented as a sage advice, from the position of superiority - yes, kids dont like it.
But admit it, when someone is trying to sell you some universal truth from a position of smug all-knowingness, acting as if he's smarter and superior to you in every way - you reject him, even if there may be some fair points to what he says. That's a normal human reaction that gets even more pronounced in kids, who often don't have enough experiences to think logically and acknowledge the rightness of you.

Instead if you make the child to see some sense, to provide him or her with examples that help him to gain the right insights on their own - then you'd be onto something.
I don't say you can always do it though. With kids, sometimes you just have to teach them the hard way, by issuing orders or punishing them. That's education too.

But it's still up to the parents to do everything they can to generate the right moral standings in their kid. And argue with me if you will, but you can't really train a child like a dog and hope for a good result. You can't just tell them things and hope they never disobey or question you. You need to make them see the benefits or the right way and the dangers of the wrong ones. So that they learn to make the right decisions by themselves.
Also, if you want to have less arguments about your views being too old - stay with the times. Some things may seem bizzare to you, and they would be bizzare in your time, but you should consider where things stand NOW. Some things get OK. Hell, maybe in 20 years it would be OK for girls to go topless or in see-through outfits in broad daylight. Sure, you can forbid that to your daughter all you like. But she'll disagree with you, and in her time - she'll actually be right.
You can try to bring your children up conservatively, but the best (or worst) you can achieve is making them socially awkward. And in most cases you will just end up with "my parents don't know anything" thoughts in your child.
There are things that are health-threatening, like drugs - and I don't include those here. Even if they were legal I'd bring my kids up to never use them, as best as I can. But there are also thing that you may consider immoral or weird - but that are actually a norm among the younger generations. Those, I believe, you should allow, but just make sure to generate an understanding of the consequences and how far they can be taken.

Bringing it back to sex, your children need to be mentally equipped to consider the feelings of their partner. To see the benefit of talking before doing, of moving slowly and gently in their explorations. To accept the partner's views and desires or lack of those.
There is a clear benefit to all of those. A girlfriend will let you cum on her face no problem, if you care to generate the right emotion and connection. Maybe not the first time, but with a right approach 95% of women will, and will go it gladly. If you manage to establish trust, your sex will be much better eventually.
The problem is that people don't see those benefits, don't understand the difference between fiction and reality.

I like to read kidnapping stories, for fuck sake - they turn me on. But I only see cons in doing this in real life. Those stories are not bad in and on themselves. It's when people are not brought up properly - is when it gets bad.

I'm sorry Nezhul, but that fact that you're now suggesting you're an expert on parenting, based on nothing other than your opinion, is a little silly.

But mostly, I want to address this statement you've made: "... your children need to be mentally equipped to consider the feelings of their partner. To see the benefit of talking before doing, of moving slowly and gently in their explorations. To accept the partner's views and desires or lack of those.
There is a clear benefit to all of those. A girlfriend will let you cum on her face no problem, if you care to generate the right emotion and connection. Maybe not the first time, but with a right approach 95% of women will, and will go it gladly. If you manage to establish trust, your sex will be much better eventually."

You say first that it's important to 'accept the partner's ... desires or lack of those' ... and then subsequently state that 'a girlfriend will let you cum on her face no problem' if you 'generate the right emotion and connection'. What if she doesn't WANT you to cum on her face. Why the hell should that be the goal? You initially talk about 'accepting someone's lack of desire', but then subsequently say something that sounds dangerously like you can basically coerce someone in doing something they don't actually want if you just keep trying. Many women (and yes, this again isn't just my own experience) find that having someone cumming on their face is a bit degrading, which isn't really that unreasonable - why on earth wouldn't you just accept that? The 'clear benefit' in this instance seems to really just be fore the guy. In fact, it's one of the acts that young women commonly cite as being something young men want as a result of watching porn ... basically, I'm going to teaching my kid that if a woman doesn't want you to cum on her face, just don't do it - it's not like there isn't a plethora of other options.

And your 'watching kidnapping stories doesn't make me want to kidnap women' is AGAIN over-simplifying the supposed effect of porn. AGAIN, media doesn't generally lead to copy-cat events, but it does shape attitudes.

 

[Nezhul]

well, again, you prove full well that you only see trigger words in my post, while the entire message just can't fit int your 2-bit brain.

I won't even answer your "points" because you invented yourself the problems that weren't even in my post.
You just saw the phrase "A girlfriend will let you" and instantly thought "Aha! Women abuse! Degradation of proud women! Acts against her will! Forcing her to do something! I need to address this misogyny!"
How more brainless can you become? maybe I should start ripping 3-word phrases out of your posts and start perverting them, then proving that you want to burn innocent people and kill Jews?