Psyche of the wise, though troubled, adviser

[Cockyfox]

that's ridiculous! Plants are living things, too! Salad is murder!

 

[bisexplicit]

My rule is, if you have a central nervous system, then I will not eat you. (Although, it's slightly more complicated than that, because, for example, I won't eat caviar since it is harvested through the death of the fish.)

 

[Cockyfox]

To each their own...

 

[TBKahuna123]

*stamps foot* I am NOT a people pleaser. I am mean. Grrrr.

Whatever. We all know that beneath that tough exterior is a soft and sweet center. Kinda like the filling on a Twinkie that's been left on the counter for a week

 

[TBKahuna123]

The full slogan is actually Meat is murder, Milk is rape.

Actually, wouldn't milk be a handjob?

 

[Quoll]

*squeeks*

*scampers off, stage /left/ (you know, that mysterious other side of the stage that never gets scampered to)*

That's where all the unpopular boobies go.

 

[silverwhisper]

shouldn't that mean that her boobies pop off towards opposite ends of the stage?



ed

 

[SweetErika]

This is a really great topic, M's girl!

I'm not thinking specifically in a Lit or HT context, but I've often wondered if the most troubled [try to] help others because they can't, or don't really want to, help themselves. We see this a lot in certain professions like healthcare, education, and stay-at-home parents: the psychologist who has major mental issues, the nurse who knows something is wrong but pours all of her effort into taking care of patients and families, the teacher who refuses to learn or try new things. There's comfort and security in advising others, and it can help deflect attention off our our own issues.

On a personal note, I think about this and try to be careful with it. I look at reading and responding to posts here as an opportunity to take stock of myself, learn, and a prompt to get my ass in gear on changing. TBK just provided a very powerful quote on failure in another thread...I wrote it down on a sticky and put it with some of the other reminders of the things I need to work on and counter negative beliefs. If he doesn't mind, I'll probably repeat it to others because it's helped me (most of the advice I give is based on resources, what I've tried or do currently).

However, I'd be foolish to not recognize there is a certain amount of deflection, selfishness, easier to give, or that it's clearer from a distance (which is why I often ask for advice on personal situations, though usually more privately).

 

[Quoll]

I don't know if I would classify the people that try to help as unhappy, I see it more as people who have for whatever reason ended up with a not so "average" life ( is there really such a thing ).
Why can they help others but not themselves?
I think for some they are helping themselves, they may never get to live the "average" life, they may never overcome their obstacles completely, but this does not mean they are stagnant either.
Who better to help someone out of the shit than someone who lives in it.
Knowing our faults and fears helps us to offer honest advice.

In my case I know all the things I am supposed to do to banish my depression, well guess what, not all of it works for me all of the time.
Physical activity is fine while I am doing it, once I stop, everything goes back to what it was before.
Take it one day at a time, ok that works, except tomorrow you have to front up and do it all over again, exhausting.

But that's me, these things do work for some, and if I can pass whatever information I have on to somebody else that it works for, then great.

I'll keep looking for different things and I'll draw motivation from what other people post as well.

A lot of us may seem to be down or unhappy, but I think it is more of an acceptance of whatever it is we have to deal with. The fact that we are here trying to help means we have not given up and are continuing to move forward.
From time to time you may see negative posts from people about their lives, I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, it is very cathartic to vent your emotions rather than bottle everything up inside. Also there is the added bonus of doing this amongst people that understand the need.

 

[wicked woman]

I often wonder on this board... there seem to be a lot of unhappy people. Yet, they give great advice to others. They seem to know how life works but they can't, for some reason, get it right themselves.

Is that just a case of 'it's always clearer view from a distance' or something else? I'm asking this because although my life seems pretty perfect there are things that bother me too, yet if someone else asks (me) what to do I know very well what the answer is.... for them.....

Two comments.

The unhappy helping others. I'm reminded of a meeting I had with a stranger...you know the kind, where you just clicked and open up to each other. I'd been going through a rough time and frankly just wanted to scream at God. I remember saying that it felt like He just kept adding a straw, then another, then another...trying to see how many straws it would take to break this camel's back. Told her I felt like telling Him "If you're trying to see how many straws it takes...let me warn you you're just one small one away!" She asked me if perhaps God wasn't testing me...but realizing how strong I was...knew I might bend under the burden, but that I would survive. That because people tended to be drawn to me for advice (aka Ann Landers in university) perhaps I was being asked to experience such hardship, so that when others ...not as well able to survive perhaps...came asking me for advice...I could offer help with an understanding only achieved from experience. I don't know if she was right or not. I do know that the thought immediately made my burden easier to bear. I also know that many times since then, I've drawn on my own experiences to understand and help others.

That even a wise advisor needs perspective. I'm fortunate to have a dear friend that provides that perspective for me. In fact she'll often preface it with 'wicked you know what you'd tell someone else if they were in your position'. We've both often found ourselves in a position where one of us has been blindsided because she was involved and the other brought in the light of objectivity. I think it's just human nature...easier to see the light when you're not personally involved. Don't see why that should be different just because you're able to provide others with advice.

 

[Cathleen]

She asked me if perhaps God wasn't testing me...but realizing how strong I was.

In an instant it is all different now. Thank you WW and your friend, that is as beautiful as breathing.



On the topic, I'm not too sure where the unhappy part fits, but I definitely see people sharing their hardships, problems and situations and then others sharing their experiences and thoughts.

Objectivity has already been discussed here, it is easier for someone to see the situation and us differently. While we may have similar problems to overcome, we don't have the same experiences that brought us to that point. Our personal preferences, prejudicious and beliefs aren't transfered to the objective person so it's a cleaner slate from which to work.

I also believe a large part in this is honesty - deep personal honesty. It might be that we give good advice to another while not taking it ourselves is because we don't want to get honest with ourselves. We might give lip-service to ourselves, it can be easy to fake ourselves out - it's denial.

Getting honest, brutally honest, is tough and can be scary. I wonder if it's about our journey through life. Maybe our subconscious knows or leads us at the speed we're capable of maintaining. Erika prompted a thought about learning and progressing through the areas that need improvement. I often use the visual of the DNA Helix, each time I spiral I have a new view of that issue, I bring more life experience to finding the growth I need.

My very basic belief about life is that we're here to help each other and the most difficult thing is to ask for and accept help. Quite the Catch 22. It's almost as if we have to be humbled to really understand the two can never be separated.

I think...

 

[wicked woman]

In an instant it is all different now. Thank you WW and your friend, that is as beautiful as breathing.

Cate, so glad I was able to pass that along and it helped. My pleasure. (((Cate)))

My very basic belief about life is that we're here to help each other and the most difficult thing is to ask for and accept help. Quite the Catch 22. It's almost as if we have to be humbled to really understand the two can never be separated.

I think...

I agree full heartedly. I still remember an argument I had with myself about whether I'd ask a friend for advice. *I want to...you don't need her help...I know I don't but I want it....she'll think less of you...why should she, I've helped her lots...doesn't matter, she will...and on and on* You know full well I never asked her. Took me years to become strong enough to ask for help.

 

[bobsgirl]

Cate, so glad I was able to pass that along and it helped. My pleasure. (((Cate)))



I agree full heartedly. I still remember an argument I had with myself about whether I'd ask a friend for advice. *I want to...you don't need her help...I know I don't but I want it....she'll think less of you...why should she, I've helped her lots...doesn't matter, she will...and on and on* You know full well I never asked her. Took me years to become strong enough to ask for help.

Oh boy, do I understand that. It took me years to finally admit maybe I needed some counseling to deal with my depression. * I can do it myself. What's the big deal? Snap out of it!* Not always that easy.

 

[Cathleen]

I was thinking about this asking for help thing, as well as giving and receiving help. For me it's very easy to give, it feels good that's for sure but I think the real gift is the receiver. Someone has to have the grace and courage to receive - I don't think that courage and grace is easy at all but where would I be without it?

 

[wicked woman]

I was thinking about this asking for help thing, as well as giving and receiving help. For me it's very easy to give, it feels good that's for sure but I think the real gift is the receiver. Someone has to have the grace and courage to receive - I don't think that courage and grace is easy at all but where would I be without it?

Cate exactly...and that's what we have to remind ourselves when we find it difficult to ask for help. Maybe the person/people we've been helping all along would like the opportunity to give back to us...and we need to be able to graciously receive for them to do that.

 

[midwestyankee]

<snip>


On the topic, I'm not too sure where the unhappy part fits, but I definitely see people sharing their hardships, problems and situations and then others sharing their experiences and thoughts.

<snip>

I also believe a large part in this is honesty - deep personal honesty. It might be that we give good advice to another while not taking it ourselves is because we don't want to get honest with ourselves. We might give lip-service to ourselves, it can be easy to fake ourselves out - it's denial.

<snip>

Just a quick thought here. One thing that makes advice easier to accept and follow is our sense of the credibility of the giver. If I can see that someone knows what it's like to struggle with a certain kind of fear then it's much more likely that I will listen to him or her. I think that on some level those of us who have come to some kind of agreement with our own fallibility and humanity find it a little easier to offer help to those who are in need.

I'm reminded of a scene from a West Wing episode a few years back. Leo McGarry, the elder statesman among the WW staff tells a story about a man in a hole. I'll summarize to avoid showing that I don't recall all the details: two or three people stop by and the man in the hole asks for help. Each does something useless but in character, such as a priest who merely says a prayer for the man. Eventually a friend passes by and hears the cries for help. Immediately he jumps into the hole with his friend. "I thought you would help me," said the first man, "but now we're both down here in this hole." The friend replied, "Yes, and I know the way out."

 

[wicked woman]

Eventually a friend passes by and hears the cries for help. Immediately he jumps into the hole with his friend. "I thought you would help me," said the first man, "but now we're both down here in this hole." The friend replied, "Yes, and I know the way out."

I like that.

 

[TBKahuna123]

I'm reminded of a scene from a West Wing episode a few years back. Leo McGarry, the elder statesman among the WW staff tells a story about a man in a hole. I'll summarize to avoid showing that I don't recall all the details: two or three people stop by and the man in the hole asks for help. Each does something useless but in character, such as a priest who merely says a prayer for the man. Eventually a friend passes by and hears the cries for help. Immediately he jumps into the hole with his friend. "I thought you would help me," said the first man, "but now we're both down here in this hole." The friend replied, "Yes, and I know the way out."

Yeah I remember this. Leo was talking about being a recovering alcoholic. The friends reply was "Yeah but I'v been in this hole before, and I know the way out." It was a great story and just shows the value of passing on your experiences to others. Take those troubling times you've made it through and use them as ways to help others through the same trials. I guess in some ways that's the survivor's way of finding the bright side in all bad experiences.