Question

[FungiUg]

Precisely. A house divided cannot long stand. Regardless of the gender roles, one has to make the final decision. And live with the consequences.

Geez... my partner and I have been together for over seven years, and we don't have any concept of "one has to make the final decision." Shared decision making, all the way.

 

[EmpressFi]

Geez... my partner and I have been together for over seven years, and we don't have any concept of "one has to make the final decision." Shared decision making, all the way.

malin and I have been married for 8 years, together almost 12..and we are VERY much a discuss it and make a mutual decision household

 

[Ishmael]

You're right. But I'm talking about the hypocrisy of the household I grew up in where my mother made all the rules. My father did not delegate things to her and micromanage. The impression the world saw was that this was the case, however, my mother was in charge at ALL times, even when playing the head-bowing, eyes downcast, 5 step behind, "your father's right", perfect housewife routine that she did whenever anyone from outside the inner circle was present. I was expected to do the same when I married for the first time... which really pissed her off when I didnt...

I wouldn't want to micromanage. It'd drive me batshit.

If the family does not present a united front to the outside world, there is NO family.

I would think that there were more dynamics at work than what you have posted. It's obvious you have little respect for your family.

I emboldened a portion of your post as a comparison to the previous post I quoted.

You might be more of your mothers daughter than you think.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Geez... my partner and I have been together for over seven years, and we don't have any concept of "one has to make the final decision." Shared decision making, all the way.

I covered that. It's rare, but it happens.

But when you disagree on the decision what do you do?

Ishmael

 

[EmpressFi]

You might be more of your mothers daughter than you think.

Ishmael

You have the right to your opinions. Enjoy them

You may be right. I loved my parents more than you can possibly know, but hate the lie they portrayed as far as who ran the household. But I never doubted their devotion to each other. My mother, as flawed as she was, stayed with a man who, over the course of 5 years, fought as cancer ravaged his body and mind. She stayed with him even when he called her "Delores" or some nights, not by a name at all.. just "Hey you"..and talked about getting out of this bar (our living room) and going home to his Evie (his first wife). She faced being widowed ... for the second time and dealt with it on her own, without asking for help from anyone. I might not have liked how they fed into the lie of how life was supposed to be when you were married... she and I were different women, raised in different times.. and perhaps we clashed because we were so similiar.. but dont EVER say I didnt respect my FAMILY.

 

[Ishmael]

You have the right to your opinions. Enjoy them

That's right.

Ishmael

 

[FungiUg]

But when you disagree on the decision what do you do?

Argue? Compromise? Reach a mutually disagreeable conclusion?

 

[Millificent]

I guess what I mean is, how do you separate being a wife and a submissive? Or do you? Are there limits placed on roles if you have children?

 

[ropetiemeup]

it depends entirely on how open you are about having a dom/sub relationship. some parents might be very open around their children so that the children will grow up to understand and be openminded themselves, and some might not show it to their children, to allow the children to be able to form their own opinions and become their own person in deciding their sexual activity.
both parents would need to decide whether they would like limits placed on what goes on in front of the children, or if they dont want it to be theyr little secret, and do it in front of them. a responsible parent must think not only of themselves and partner, but they must also think of their child, and what that child might grow up to think. every person and every child is entitled to form their own opinions and make their own asumptions about things, just as each parent is entitled. give the kid a chance to form his thoughts, but also extend to him your understanding and knowledge so his or her thoughts will be openminded

 

[FurryFury]

I think a lot of these sorts of questions come about because BDSM seems like a fantasy and as such, not easily blended into a real life. That's totally understandable.

In a real life married D/s relationship though, people still have to do all those normal, sometimes dreary, sometimes wonderful things.

Would you put on a dog collar and lick your husband's boots in front of the kids? No.

Would they get the idea that you perhaps defer to him in final decisions and you are both comfortable with that? Likely so.

In such a relationship, hopefully you both still feel like partners that each give the other what they need and want, in and out of the "dungeon."

 

[Chris_Xavier]

I guess what I mean is, how do you separate being a wife and a submissive? Or do you? Are there limits placed on roles if you have children?

So are we to take it that you are married to your Dom?

 

[the captians wench]

I guess what I mean is, how do you separate being a wife and a submissive? Or do you? Are there limits placed on roles if you have children?

That really depends on you.

There are no set rules here that say for you to be a real bdsm couple you have to be submissive x amount of time durring the day.

there are many different degrees of this, you will even find many different degrees here on these boards. There are some who live as a submissive to their husband all day every day, and others who only carry it out in the bedroom, and still many more who fit some where imbetween.

You have to find a balance that works for you.

Now as to kids, I personally don't have any, so my advice is worth a hill of beans on the issue, but still my opinion is one it depends on their age, and two it depends on how much you wish to talk to your kids about your relationship, sexual practices, and bdsm and sex in general. If you'd rather they not ask questions, then I'd keep the matter out of their eyes. Still there are some things best left un seen by childeren...of any age. *giggles*

 

[_kiana_]

I guess what I mean is, how do you separate being a wife and a submissive? Or do you? Are there limits placed on roles if you have children?

"Submissive" and "wife" are labels just like everything else. You (general 'you') should take and make them what you want from them.

Personally, I don't separate the two at all. I can't imagine them being separate for me. But my view of 'wife' is not very 21st century.

No kids though!

 

[the captians wench]

"Submissive" and "wife" are labels just like everything else. You (general 'you') should take and make them what you want from them.

Personally, I don't separate the two at all. I can't imagine them being separate for me. But my view of 'wife' is not very 21st century.

No kids though!

*giggles*

I know what you mean. When I was a happy little housewife, I was pretty much a sub with out the kink. I think that's what made me afraid of the kink at first, it wasn't the best of relationships.

 

[JMohegan]

Marriage is a legal construct, and because of this I consider the act of getting married to be a fundamentally submissive act for both parties.

Each subjugates him/herself to laws drafted and enforced by others, deferring to the authority invested in the state where the couple resides.

 

[intothewoods]

Marriage is a legal construct, and because of this I consider the act of getting married to be a fundamentally submissive act for both parties.

Each subjugates him/herself to laws drafted and enforced by others, deferring to the authority invested in the state where the couple resides.

Interesting. And then if you're Jewish, you sign another contract, and I suppose both parties are subbies for God.

 

[intothewoods]

Generally speaking, either the marriage is secondary to 24/7 D/s, or you have the D/s aspect of the relationship, and a partnership of some sort, the vanilla aspect. As others have said, it all depends on how you define your relationship. And I haven't been married to someone with whom I also have a D/s relationship, so I'm guessing.

The reason I really wanted to post is to do my usual Jewish mother routine. It's all about the kids! I spend most of my angsting these days trying to figure out if I can marry a Top/Dom, and have a family with him. I do want both a partnership, and the feeling that I'm part of a team, with my husband (if I marry again). But I also know I need D/s too. If it did ever work out, I think it would primarily be a bedroom dynamic that is emphasized by certain subtleties outside: wrapping his arms around me (hint of physical dominance), a look, the way our personalities interact.

But we are 1000% a team when it comes to the kids. Holderman says he is daddy? Well, I am mommy, and that ain't gonna be messed with.

 

[JMohegan]

Interesting. And then if you're Jewish, you sign another contract, and I suppose both parties are subbies for God.

Really? An actual piece of paper? What does it say?

My main point to the OP is that a relationship is a relationship is a relationship, and a vow is a vow is a vow..... until you officially involve other people in the transaction by taking a vow with enforceable civil consequences.

I have met Catholics who say that things like adultery or divorce would condemn them to Hell, so I suppose that, in some cases, one could add religious consequences to the distinction as well.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[intothewoods]

Really? An actual piece of paper? What does it say?

My main point to the OP is that a relationship is a relationship is a relationship, and a vow is a vow is a vow..... until you officially involve other people in the transaction by taking a vow with enforceable civil consequences.

Right. Or "other people" like kids. Different consequences.

It's called a ketubah, and it's basically a marriage contract. They're quite long, and include various forms of stock language, depending on what the couple prefers, and how observant you are (orthodox, conservative, reform, etc.).

They can be personalized, or you can even (truly) go to a website and click a few boxes to select the language you want. The personalized ones are actually incredibly pricey, so many people choose the "stock" forms. In addition to the contractual language, they also include design and images - they're really works of art!

There are all sorts of things that they say. One interesting little factoid is that a Jewish husband is required to at least attempt to keep his wife sexually satisfied. What else? You promise to have a Jewish home. It also recites the details of the marriage, and witnesses must sign. Let me see if I can find something that explains it better than me at 9:45 at night.

 

[intothewoods]

From about.com:

According to the Jewish view of marriage, marriage is a contractual agreement between two people with legal rights and obligations. A Ketubah is a marriage contract that explains the basic material, conjugal and moral responsbilities of the husband to his wife. It is signed by the groom, as well as two witnesses, and given to the bride during the wedding ceremony.

The purpose of the Ketubah is to protect the woman's rights during the marriage and in case she is divorced or widowed. Historically, the Ketubah marked a great leap forward in the thinking about the rights of women.

 

[_kiana_]

Each subjugates him/herself to laws drafted and enforced by others, deferring to the authority invested in the state where the couple resides.

Heh. So ... what does that mean to me since we got married in my home state and came back to New Zealand?

 

[FungiUg]

Heh. So ... what does that mean to me since we got married in my home state and came back to New Zealand?

Probably means you are screwed.

I would imagine that the authority to which you defer changes with the locale in which you reside.

Interestingly, New Zealand has a law that recognises the rights of people living with each other long term. I think there are provisos, but you don't have to be "married" to end up with legal obligations.

 

[JMohegan]

Right. Or "other people" like kids. Different consequences.

My views on D/s and children may be found on this thread.

It's called a ketubah, and it's basically a marriage contract. They're quite long, and include various forms of stock language, depending on what the couple prefers, and how observant you are (orthodox, conservative, reform, etc.).

They can be personalized, or you can even (truly) go to a website and click a few boxes to select the language you want. The personalized ones are actually incredibly pricey, so many people choose the "stock" forms. In addition to the contractual language, they also include design and images - they're really works of art!

There are all sorts of things that they say. One interesting little factoid is that a Jewish husband is required to at least attempt to keep his wife sexually satisfied. What else? You promise to have a Jewish home. It also recites the details of the marriage, and witnesses must sign. Let me see if I can find something that explains it better than me at 9:45 at night.

According to the Jewish view of marriage, marriage is a contractual agreement between two people with legal rights and obligations. A Ketubah is a marriage contract that explains the basic material, conjugal and moral responsbilities of the husband to his wife. It is signed by the groom, as well as two witnesses, and given to the bride during the wedding ceremony.

The purpose of the Ketubah is to protect the woman's rights during the marriage and in case she is divorced or widowed. Historically, the Ketubah marked a great leap forward in the thinking about the rights of women.

Thank you for answering my questions, ITW. I find that fascinating, primarily because the documented commitment is entirely one way.

 

[JMohegan]

Heh. So ... what does that mean to me since we got married in my home state and came back to New Zealand?

I was going to suggest asking our resident Kiwi, but it looks like he's already shown up.