Running in circles

[intothewoods]

Funny, the idea of Mister Man being so into another woman that he submits to her (in the way JM mentioned) actually makes me pretty jealous. And I haven't felt jealousy in a while! But I feel pretty confident that's an issue of fidelity and not aversion to his weakness or whatever.

Frankly, he could fuck girls all day in a Toppy sort of way all day and I wouldn't flinch. But the level of intimacy required for him to let go is reserved for me. And I guess actually, when I think about it, the D/s is for us, but Top/bottom stuff is fine. So really - Topping is okay - but the more intense Domish stuff (technical term ) is just for us.

Damn, monogamy strikes again!

 

[Homburg]

It's not the big wolves you have to worry about. It's the non-threatening reasonable ones.

Well, yes. Fortunately, I only know one of those.

 

[twysted73]

What I get from this is the D/s version of what so many couples struggle with in R/l. (especially newlyweds, daters, or even old marriages) where they have a pre-set idea or fantasy if you will of what they wish to have, want, expect, desire, etc and heap this mountain of projected emotional responsability onto the unknowing shoulders of another and expect that person not to "let them down" by being human. by being their flawed, little human selves.

So the moment he blinks and drops his guard, allows for part of his inner-desire to express come out...(and it's contrary to the fantasy of another) all of a sudden they can't be trusted, they've been posing for so long, they aren't who they said they were, etc. and it's really quite unfair. Perhaps the reason you've not seen this part of him before is because of the expectations he knows you have of your dynamic.

It's akin to a woman telling a long-time boyfriend "i wasn't a virgin when we met..i had been raped" and him blowing up on her for not telling him sooner. Or worse, him berating her for being the victim or for being "unclean" when they met, etc.

I simply feel the guy in this one isn't being given a fair shake.

 

[velvet_crush]

doesn't it depend on your agreement? it sounds like you're poly & not monagomous. would it be ok if he was Dominant with another woman? is the issue that you found him in a position that didn't fit your image of him?

i agree with Netzach on two issues: first, in some relationships, "compartmentalizing" is easier. especially long distance. it's like you have this person in your life for a limited amount of time. expectations are pretty clear. it's always a shocker when - during your limited exposure to each other - expectations aren't met.

i see LDR as being on an eternal first date... you never have to mess with the blah day to day stuff - which includes getting to know other aspects of your partner.

the second thing that Netzach stated which resonates is that you're in the relationship to serve him. as long as he's been upfront with you about the fact he's going to be with other women and you've agreed to that - does it matter HOW he's going to be with them?

if - on the other hand - you have a different agreement..well - then you should be questioning his motives.

** i'm wondering how you found him in this submissive position with another woman? **

 

[Netzach]

Funny, the idea of Mister Man being so into another woman that he submits to her (in the way JM mentioned) actually makes me pretty jealous. And I haven't felt jealousy in a while! But I feel pretty confident that's an issue of fidelity and not aversion to his weakness or whatever.

Frankly, he could fuck girls all day in a Toppy sort of way all day and I wouldn't flinch. But the level of intimacy required for him to let go is reserved for me. And I guess actually, when I think about it, the D/s is for us, but Top/bottom stuff is fine. So really - Topping is okay - but the more intense Domish stuff (technical term ) is just for us.

Damn, monogamy strikes again!

That's cool, I respect that. Except I kind of clock in where Dan Savage does and my take on it is that if it's an experience I no way no how can provide for my loved one that he really really really wants, I back off and let him. (IE. real cock)

So could you make a hot switching event happen for him if he was dying to go under for a bit? Just curious about it.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Well, yes. Fortunately, I only know one of those.

Of course!

The world would cease to exist if there were two of me...

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I'll tell you who's the slave if my sexuality is limited by my slave telling me he'll up and leave if I do something in bed I want, or relate to someone else how I choose.

Gawd, I love you to pieces sometimes, Netzach!

 

[intothewoods]

That's cool, I respect that. Except I kind of clock in where Dan Savage does and my take on it is that if it's an experience I no way no how can provide for my loved one that he really really really wants, I back off and let him. (IE. real cock)

So could you make a hot switching event happen for him if he was dying to go under for a bit? Just curious about it.

Hmm, yeah, I think so actually. I mean, as you totally get, sometimes you need that PYL with some distance from you to make it happen. If he said to me, my instinct with you is to protect, but I really want to just fully let go and have some girl beat the crap out of me. Or humilate me. Or whatever - something I don't have that much experience with. Yeah, I'm totally fine with that - I just don't want to be replaced, or what we have to be diminished. As long as it's not really about the intimacy we have, I don't feel that twinge of 'mine.'

 

[unfoundiamond]

well Unknown...

I may not be the best one to comment on this, as I enjoy switching...

I believe me being strong when He is weak is my duty...

But... I also don't see this as a "switching" problem...

It sounds to me you have a problem with thinking he is one way and finding out by suprise that he has all these other desires.

It makes a person wonder what else they don't know...

And also, I know that you don't completely enjoy switching, and maybe SO DOES HE... and He wants to get the little break he needs so He felt He had to involve another to play a role you don't want to...

I think you should just talk to him about it, either decide to try and fill that void... or deal with it however...

I am a dominant person most of the time, and slowly begin to feel the stress become unmanagable... and need to hand the riegns over... It refreshes me, helps me decompress and allows me to continue to "do it all"

Maybe He just needed a release...

And think about how hard it must have been to show this side to you, men aren't exactly taught to be submissive(in fact they are taught its a weakness, and to hide it) So think of Him showing you that like He took a leap of faith, and trusts you a lot...
Especially if it took him 5 years to admit it (or realize it)

He wanted you there... if He wanted to hide it and be deceptive He could have never told/shown you...

I also like to be the "apple of His eye" and switching if need be, it prevents needing the thirds involvement.
(This way the extra is a joy, not an intrusion)

Good luck... and tell us more about the actual events you described as "becoming pussy whipped" so we can can make a more educated guesses as to the situation...

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

You cut to the chase.

Anyone who would say to me "I can't respect you for liking any part of what I like" is cut out of my circle of respect. They clearly have some self-esteem issues I don't want near.

I couldnt respect such a person only as my Dom if you know what I mean? For a person I dont give a shit about someones likes or dislikes, so please dont get me wrong on this. I dont mind if is someone Domme or a switch or whatever they want to be, but for a person I choose to submit to I think its quite important or? I mean when I get to know my Master we spoke alot on the begining about what he like/need, about what I like/need, about what we both expect from our relationship etc etc etc.

Me saying I would leave such a Dom if it turned he was a swich wouldnt be like I am telling him what he can and what he cant do and like, not at all, cuz if he was honest with me I would never ever accept him as my Dominant in first place. My Dom can treat me as he damn please, we are very clear on that. I would never dare tell him you can do this or you cant do that, I am not that stupid LOL.

With this OP Dom tho I would just tell him I am sorry, but finding he's a swich efects me so much I cannot call him my Dom anymore and I don't see it as telling someone what he can or cant do, I call it being honest. Brutal honest maybe, but I still prefer tell him I dont want him as my Dom anymore than pretending everything is fine while its not.

I am not like "If you do this or that-I will leave." My Sir can do whatever he wants - I know that very well. I think there are things that wouldnt efect the relationship that much, but sadly this is one of those situations that would just change things too much for me. I might try to stay with him, but I wouldnt be the very same.

You cut to the chase.
Again, I have no patience for a submissive who would accuse me of a bait and switch for fucking who I want to fuck and HOW I want to fuck. I would have no patience for a submissive who would feel like they have dibs or control on any aspect at all of my sexuality. I'm sure this is an unpopular answer, but you're sure to get some answers off the bell curve when you ask a question.

I dont think that callmeUnknown or me are like this or? You cannot expect she will treat him like nuthing happened. He lied to her and sadly it changed things for her if i get it right? It would change things for me as well or you think he can lie to her just cuz hes a Dom? you think he can do this and do that just cuz hes a Dom?? Do you think she should just sheeply say "Oh yes Sir, its okay you are a switch. Its okay you lied to me for the last 5 years, so sweet of you, thank you I love it. You are the Dom here, you can do whatever you want I will sshhh nicely. Something else I dunno about you? Feel free to tell me I will comply to whatever makes you happy, it doesnt matter it makes me feel like shit, you're the Dom here."

You dont think this view of thing is right right Netz??? I mean, I know how it goes between Dom/sub but I still think a sub have every right to say what she think about things or how she feel about things and choose if she wanna stay in the relationship or not. I think both side should enjoy their part and I just wouldnt if I was in the skin of the callmeUnknown, so yes I would leave him for the good of both of us actualy I think.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I'll tell you who's the slave if my sexuality is limited by my slave telling me he'll up and leave if I do something in bed I want, or relate to someone else how I choose.

I dont think callmeUnknown telling her Sir what he can do or not? and me either. But something happened there. Something I wouldnt just be able to overlook and pretend like everything is like it used to be. I dont think shes trying to limit her Dom or his sexuality in any way really and I see no reason why she should limit her sexuality either. I surely wouldnt.

If this happened to me I would have a serious talk with my Dom and talk it out. Dont think it would change my view of things tho and my view of thing is I couldnt submit to a switch.

 

[Netzach]

I couldnt respect such a person only as my Dom if you know what I mean? For a person I dont give a shit about someones likes or dislikes, so please dont get me wrong on this. I dont mind if is someone Domme or a switch or whatever they want to be, but for a person I choose to submit to I think its quite important or? I mean when I get to know my Master we spoke alot on the begining about what he like/need, about what I like/need, about what we both expect from our relationship etc etc etc.

Me saying I would leave such a Dom if it turned he was a swich wouldnt be like I am telling him what he can and what he cant do and like, not at all, cuz if he was honest with me I would never ever accept him as my Dominant in first place. My Dom can treat me as he damn please, we are very clear on that. I would never dare tell him you can do this or you cant do that, I am not that stupid LOL.

With this OP Dom tho I would just tell him I am sorry, but finding he's a swich efects me so much I cannot call him my Dom anymore and I don't see it as telling someone what he can or cant do, I call it being honest. Brutal honest maybe, but I still prefer tell him I dont want him as my Dom anymore than pretending everything is fine while its not.

I am not like "If you do this or that-I will leave." My Sir can do whatever he wants - I know that very well. I think there are things that wouldnt efect the relationship that much, but sadly this is one of those situations that would just change things too much for me. I might try to stay with him, but I wouldnt be the very same.



I dont think that callmeUnknown or me are like this or? You cannot expect she will treat him like nuthing happened. He lied to her and sadly it changed things for her if i get it right? It would change things for me as well or you think he can lie to her just cuz hes a Dom? you think he can do this and do that just cuz hes a Dom?? Do you think she should just sheeply say "Oh yes Sir, its okay you are a switch. Its okay you lied to me for the last 5 years, so sweet of you, thank you I love it. You are the Dom here, you can do whatever you want I will sshhh nicely. Something else I dunno about you? Feel free to tell me I will comply to whatever makes you happy, it doesnt matter it makes me feel like shit, you're the Dom here."

You dont think this view of thing is right right Netz??? I mean, I know how it goes between Dom/sub but I still think a sub have every right to say what she think about things or how she feel about things and choose if she wanna stay in the relationship or not. I think both side should enjoy their part and I just wouldnt if I was in the skin of the callmeUnknown, so yes I would leave him for the good of both of us actualy I think.

1. I start off by explaining that the slave/sub has no control over my sexuality ie: expect me to be with others. And what I do with those others is up to me. We don't know what these two did or didn't agree to in that regard, I'm saying this is what I would do knowing what I know.

I don't get the impression he's been sneaking around about being with other people. If he's at all like I am, it may never have occurred to him that it's even her business how he is with them, especially if this is an LDR with periodic contact face to face. I wouldn't dream of reporting my sexual adventures to H, my slave, unless I feel like it for some reason. We are in an LDR. When I do tell him something like "wow I had great sex" he's happy for me. I'm happy, he's happy. Things are copacetic for my property.

2. Did you even read what I wrote? *He may not see himself as a switch, he may not have ever felt like switching and it's coming up now* How is that lying so much as it is changing, or are only subs allowed growth? How can that possibly be something hidden for 5 years so much as perhaps something not worth mentioning and not up for debate in his eyes?


She's free to have a problem She's free to leave because he's not a Dom in her eyes. My slaves are also free to walk because they can't cope with my excersising what I always maintained was my right from day 1. And I would say, even after 5 years with M who's not even a slave, and 3 years LDR with H, don't let the door hit you in the ass. Submit or don't.

Submit or don't. Submit or don't. I know it's positively insane, but honestly no one's doing me any favors - I'm not forcing anyone or doing any dances to convince anyone I'm a Domme if they don't think so. I just don't need to interact with them as their personal fantasy jackoff idol. Which is what the perpetually strict whip in hand heels on while I sleep fantasy is - I'm not that for anyone. I'm how I am, submit to it, or thanks, move along. Very simple, really.

She's entitled to be bummed out, she's entitled to move on - totally. But she's not entitled to hang around forever being a martyr and trying to control his sexuality with "but how can I feel about you how I did? Are you going to do it again? When, how shall I cope?" I don't think she's liable to do this, but I sure have seen it. She's not entitled to run around the community calling him a fake and a poseur because he's doing something she doesn't like - it's no different than discovering your Dom is really into something you just don't like in bed. Leave or assimilate.

I'm not saying assimilate immediately. Ask for help processing it, talk about your trouble with it, communicate, but don't communicate with no intent to submit or accept.

 

[Netzach]

Hmm, yeah, I think so actually. I mean, as you totally get, sometimes you need that PYL with some distance from you to make it happen. If he said to me, my instinct with you is to protect, but I really want to just fully let go and have some girl beat the crap out of me. Or humilate me. Or whatever - something I don't have that much experience with. Yeah, I'm totally fine with that - I just don't want to be replaced, or what we have to be diminished. As long as it's not really about the intimacy we have, I don't feel that twinge of 'mine.'

That rocks. In a me-channeling-Dan-Savage way. I think we should go outside our boxes when we're in love with people if need be.

 

[intothewoods]

That rocks. In a me-channeling-Dan-Savage way. I think we should go outside our boxes when we're in love with people if need be.

You mean, outside our D/s boxes? Because in general, I think one person can't satisfy all of your needs anyway. I mean, I get things from my friends that my lover doesn't give me - ya know? I've never been into that whole you are my world kind of view.

 

[Netzach]

You mean, outside our D/s boxes? Because in general, I think one person can't satisfy all of your needs anyway. I mean, I get things from my friends that my lover doesn't give me - ya know? I've never been into that whole you are my world kind of view.

I mean sexually. I think trying one's best is good etiquette, if it comes up. But yeah, I also don't think all people are all things.

 

[Netzach]

Gawd, I love you to pieces sometimes, Netzach!

Honestly, my answer would be, good, OK it's been fun.

 

[Homburg]

Of course!

The world would cease to exist if there were two of me...

You did not just describe yourself as one of the "non-threatening reasonable ones"?

 

[Netzach]

You did not just describe yourself as one of the "non-threatening reasonable ones"?

I was a little nonplussed by that. I think the "not evil" needs a little dusting off.

 

[SweetErika]

I dont think that callmeUnknown or me are like this or? You cannot expect she will treat him like nuthing happened. He lied to her and sadly it changed things for her if i get it right? It would change things for me as well or you think he can lie to her just cuz hes a Dom? you think he can do this and do that just cuz hes a Dom?? Do you think she should just sheeply say "Oh yes Sir, its okay you are a switch. Its okay you lied to me for the last 5 years, so sweet of you, thank you I love it. You are the Dom here, you can do whatever you want I will sshhh nicely. Something else I dunno about you? Feel free to tell me I will comply to whatever makes you happy, it doesnt matter it makes me feel like shit, you're the Dom here."

It doesn't sound like he lied to her. He told her he loved dominant women in the past, and she even said that should have been a clue.

Maybe he didn't feel what he did with others was her concern. Maybe they hadn't negotiated what they would share about other relationships, and he figured that as long as he was dominant with her and played within the rules they'd established, it didn't matter what he did with other people.

There's a lot we don't know about this situation, and I don't think we have enough information to determine if he really betrayed her or not. She may feel betrayed, and so may he, but that doesn't mean lying or betrayal actually happened.

You dont think this view of thing is right right Netz??? I mean, I know how it goes between Dom/sub but I still think a sub have every right to say what she think about things or how she feel about things and choose if she wanna stay in the relationship or not. I think both side should enjoy their part and I just wouldnt if I was in the skin of the callmeUnknown, so yes I would leave him for the good of both of us actualy I think.

I don't get the impression that anyone's saying one should stay with a person they're really unhappy with. I think the point is that people are complex and always changing, and when you have a serious relationship, you have to expect and adapt to that for it to work long-term.

Also, it's much easier to hide the complexities and negatives when you're in an online/long-distance relationship, like you are, Biatch. It's much easier to maintain the fantasy that your partner is perfect; if you spent a lot of time with them in person, you would probably find out pretty quickly they have a lot of imperfections, quirks, annoying habits, etc.

For example, it'd be very easy for me to be a fantasy-perfect Domme online and on the phone because I'd only have to show the aspects of myself I wanted my partner to see. When I spend a lot of time with someone in person, however, I wouldn't be able to maintain that perfect persona - my partner is going to see me tired, cranky, sick, in pain, depressed, angry, crying, etc. - things that may make me not seem very dominant to them.

A sub I met recently told me he wanted a Domme to put on a pedestal and fulfill his fantasy. I told him putting someone on a pedestal like that gives them a long way to fall, and that I'm unwilling to work with someone who wants the fantasy. I don't want to have to act any other way than I really am...a real, changing human being, with good days and bad days, positives and faults. I'm a Dominant with subby fantasies and a willingness to bottom to see what things feel like and when something interests me. If a person can't appreciate me for ALL of that--for being real--I don't want them.

It seems like many (Doms, subs, switches, and non-kinky people alike) try to find someone they can put on a high pedestal, rather than the reality that comes with knowing and loving another human being. That's all well and good, but they can't be surprised when their "perfect" partner turns out to be imperfect, or unlike the image in their heads (that could include being a switch, bisexual, into a something the partner finds unappealing, illness/injury, showing "weakness"). Unless your fantasy is based on reality, you're going to feel betrayed and disappointed when you learn your fantasy partner is a real person.

So, there's nothing wrong with your perspective of wanting a Dom who likes all of the same things you do, or is perfectly compatible. At the same time, you can't be surprised when that doesn't translate to an intensive, in person relationship, or they change, because perfect compatibility and people who never change don't exist in real life. Usually, the only person being betrayed/lied to in those situations is ourselves because our partners never claimed to match our fantasies perfectly or stay the same.

 

[Homburg]

I was a little nonplussed by that. I think the "not evil" needs a little dusting off.

I agree. That would've been the proper time for NSE_G.

I have to revise though. I can think of one more, if I include folks on here. And of course that assumes that said person is as they portray themselves to be, etc.

 

[callmeUnknown]

without going in to to many details, he never lied to me. i knew about this other woman for all along. and the situation i mentioned with him and this other woman was a nonsexual thing. they were talking. but it was obvious by his body language and the stuff exchanged exactly which one wore the pants.

i thought it was pretty clear that i've never felt like he lied to me. but some of you have mentioned that i had an unrealistic idea of him and i think that is right on the money. and also, netzach mentioned that because it's an LDR, there are a lot of things we don't ever get to see about another person. i think this is very on the money for me too.

thank you, thank you and thank you all again. i'm doing lottsa soul seraching about this and your opinions have helped me lots.

 

[callmeUnknown]

also, like some of you have said he told me that as long as he was doing for me what i needed, it shouldn't matter how he is with other people. i thingk i already said that when i said the he told me about him being as mean as a snake to me. i like his sadistic ways and always have.

this is one thing that im having trouble with. maybe the core thing that im having trouble with. i thought he was the same with others mainly women as he was with me.

 

[Essene]

Submit or don't. Submit or don't. I know it's positively insane, but honestly no one's doing me any favors - I'm not forcing anyone or doing any dances to convince anyone I'm a Domme if they don't think so. I just don't need to interact with them as their personal fantasy jackoff idol. Which is what the perpetually strict whip in hand heels on while I sleep fantasy is - I'm not that for anyone. I'm how I am, submit to it, or thanks, move along. Very simple, really.

Yup. I think that's absolutely well put and concise.

And I'm totally stalking you now and your big sexy brain.

And now I'm stealing this for my sig. line.

I'm really appreciating JMohegan's posts as well.

 

[Etoile]

he told me that it shouldn't matter how he is with anyone else as long as hes as "mean as a snake" to me. several of you have said kinda the same thing. i guess if he can Dom me in the way i like and he has for as long as i've known him, than it shouldn't matter to me how he is with someone else.

Whoa, wait a minute...is he pushing you into poly? And you're supposed to feel that as long as he does what you like to YOU, you're supposed to be accepting of being poly? No, no, and no. Whether or not someone can handle poly is even more deep-rooted than whether someone is submissive...it's a gut thing, you can't change your mind "for love" - I absolutely do NOT believe you can force someone into being poly. It's like a guilt trip..."if you loved me enough, you'd let me see other women." "If you really wanted to be my submissive, you'd accept that I see other women."

If I'm wrong, let me know, but that's what it sounds like.

 

[intothewoods]

I mean sexually. I think trying one's best is good etiquette, if it comes up. But yeah, I also don't think all people are all things.

Ah, well yeah, I draw a distinction between sex and intimacy. As long as it's not a replacement of me, I'm all good. And I'm fairly confident I would be hard to replace. So it's all good.

Incidentally, Mister Man says women care more about intimacy when it comes to fidelity, whereas men generally care about the physical - that pussy is mine and all that. I think this is some psych 101 thing he picked up.