Savage Heat or just a Savage?

[FurryFury]

From what I can tell both the op and the guy pushing things are pretty young. Perhaps that is one reason why they are not discussing things as I would need to do. Some research into what BDSM or D/s is might be in order on both parts. He still sounds like a dangerous player to me.

If the only reason I wanted him to quit was because I was scared or didn't want him to have power over me, I'd still expect him to fucking STOP. Even if one or more parts of me wanted more, that doesn't mean a damned thing. We often have conflicting feelings as human beings.

I didn't consciously know I was submissive until I was in my early 40's though the signs in retrospect couldn't have been more obvious. I didn't have words for what I wanted and needed. These days with the internet you have more information at your fingertips. Used wisely that could lead to an earlier awareness of what you do and do not want.

Fury

 

[SpectreT]

My advice, and I apologize if this comes off hard, I get like that from time to time. To be honest, what I'm reading is that you both are playing a game where neither one of you knows the rules, and you're both wandering around with your heads planted firmly between your gluteal hemispheres. At least you came out here and sniffed the air for a couple of minutes, and we want to give you some fresh air while you're here.

Here's your homework checklist regarding this individual (and I know it's some hard ass work in there):

1) Quit fucking around with this.

2) Get some distance from this guy, physically, and emotionally, if possible.

3) Get your head on straight, to wit:
a) What do you actually want from this, if anything?
b) What do you think he wants from this?
c) Do you think there are some compatible goals there? If so, what are they?

4) Keep your head out of your ass next time you're near the guy, don't play your usual game, and find out what he does want.

5) Set some ground rules for the new game, if his goals and yours mesh, and you've decided you want to go forward with this guy (though my knee-jerk reaction based on the not enough information you've given us is that he's a people user and a general assclown. But I don't know the guy).

Additional homework: Study up on some D/S. The threads here are a good start, but I can't think of any off the top of my head that will be directly helpful to you that haven't already been posted. I'll be back if I do. It seems as if you may have a predisposition towards either submissive personality, or extreme sexual shyness, and it will help you to know exactly what you're dealing with in yourself, before you deal with him.

 

[wildhate]

To *me* those are the actions of someone who is intentionally playing with fire.

Gee.....tell me something I dont know...I believe it was I who mentioned this first-no shocking revelation there...

Let me assure you, you do not want to walk down that path with me.

I could care less what path you walk down at the moment..and just to hint you in a bit, in the event that you were trying to scare me, it didnt work. Try your passive agressive stint on someone else.

LOL, believe me, I am not taking this seriously

How nice.

but you tell us you will have to wait until after the weekend is over to be able to tell us more (so despite the claims he is the one organising things without your knowledge or cooperation, you are hinting at a weekend rendevous with him which means you are aware you will get together

I hinted at no such thing, you silly little twit....I merely said that I would have to wait until after the weekend...Contrary to popular belief, not EVERYONE has immediate access to the internet in their house, thus having to wait until the weekend was ajourned.

trying to dangle the carrot so to speak to keep us all enthralled by your tale of imminent peril at the hands of this dastardly predator),

Excuse me, but WHO has been reading the horrid romance novels?

both associations with violence, uncontrolled anger, hatred, danger

How quaint. That degree for armchair psycology is really coming in handy

you refer to police as 'the fuzz' and 'our boys in blue'

I have a very old soul, and like to watch old movies. My sense of humour is slightly skewed and warped.

which also sounds like a very bad outdated dialogue from a badly written novel

I guess you would be the leading authority in this department.

you point out any trouble you get into is yuour responsibility...but then you forgotyou told us you can't stop him making sure he is alone with you so how can it be your fault?

Yes, I know, take your time in digesting it, it seems to be a tad difficult for you to wrap your mind around.....

all just comes over as melodramatic

Glad I could entertain..

I get this image of you in my head sitting behind your PC snickering while you type up the next snippet of information and tittilation

Spoken from one who has experience in this department, it seems..

Sorry if I have it wrong,

No your not, and even if you were, I dont take kindly to pity.

From the start, you flew at me, claws extended, launching into a bitter battle...For what reason is that, really? I have done nothing except come on here and seek advice. I knew nothing of this possibility until it was mentioned by another person in an entirely different posting forum and so I came on here to seek advice, not to protect and defend my honor. It seems it is YOU who is living in a fantasy world if you cant even accept that some confused poster who wants her life straightened out is actually plotting a sinister attempt to overthrow this forum...or were you secretly upset because no one is paying attention to you?

*not getting it*

Hi everyone - I was the person who suggested that she post her questions here.

Finally!!! Thank you, LadyJeanne...What took you so long??!!

I didn't get from her posts there that she was truly afraid of this man, except to the extent that he was compelling to her and she couldn't quite resist him.

Very insightful...

LadyJeanne, this:

or he could be seducing her in a way she doesn't understand

Was EXACTLY what I mean, or feel to mean....That is what has been at the tip of my tongue...you worded it exactly how I feel...I dont understand the way he is trying to seduce me...

is she's met up with a wannabe or newbie Dom and she's falling for him and is confused about it. If she comes back, perhaps she can explain it better.

Yes...thats it....I am falling for him and am confused about it....And if he is one of those, he certainly wouldnt tell me about it right away, especially if he was a wannabe, or would he? Or does he have to test me out and trust me first to divulge this information?

Maybe he is just testing me in various ways to see what I respond to the most...One thing is clear...he DOES like me, and he wants to be with me...but I noticed that when all else failed, he tried to get me this way...or thats how it seems.

From what I can tell both the op and the guy pushing things are pretty young.

On the contrary...I am in my late twenties, and he is in his mid twenties. He has loads more experience than I, in every possible way, (with the exception of traumatic experiences, I have scads of that and then some)

Bless you, A Desert Rose, you are a gift....thanks for sticking by me...

SpectreT,

It seems as if you may have a predisposition towards either submissive personality, or extreme sexual shyness, and it will help you to know exactly what you're dealing with in yourself, before you deal with him.

Good point. Especially the sexual shyness part of it....that might be the crux of the whole problem....I am still picking through the rest of this, and will respond a bit later...You will forgive me if I dont get to it until tomorrow...

...Yes, yes, Catalina, yet another cliffhanger....

When in actuality, I just dont have internet access in my home.

 

[JMohegan]

I think he might be trying to seduce me, and I dont mean just to have sex with him....I mean, I think he is also trying to seduce me to fall in love with him, if that makes any sense.

Based solely on what you've written, I'd say the guy just wants to get laid.

It doesn't sound to me as if he's trying to develop a relationship of any flavor. I'm guessing that falling in love is the furthest thing from his mind.

He wants to fuck you. Period. That's my honest reaction to what you wrote.

I never said the word no. Perhaps that was my error, if I didnt want to be devoured...but some parts of me dont know when to stop pushing the limits...and yes, if I did push them a little too far, I am prepared to accept the responsibility for my actions.

You're in your late twenties, and you haven't learned how to say no?

Frankly, I'd say you have much bigger problems than whatever does or does not happen with this one guy. My suggestion is that you seek help from a therapist, counselor, or other trained professional as soon as possible. If you are going to interact with men as an adult, the ability to say no is a skill you're going to need.

 

[FurryFury]

LOL.

To me anyone in their twenties is pretty young. God knows I didn't know what I really wanted or anything about BDSM then. That's why I think it's great to have all these online resources for people now. I could have learned so much, and so much sooner if I'd had them at a young age. I was unfortunate enough to fall in love and get married in my twenties. It was a horrible mistake. Thus I recommend marriage no sooner than 30 to my friends. YMMV.

Fury

 

[JMohegan]

LOL.

To me anyone in their twenties is pretty young. God knows I didn't know what I really wanted or anything about BDSM then. That's why I think it's great to have all these online resources for people now. I could have learned so much, and so much sooner if I'd had them at a young age. I was unfortunate enough to fall in love and get married in my twenties. It was a horrible mistake. Thus I recommend marriage no sooner than 30 to my friends. YMMV.

Fury

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with BDSM.

And I think the issue here is more specific than knowing what she wants in a general sense.

She needs to learn how to say no. If she can't do this, she needs to get help.

 

[FurryFury]

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with BDSM.

And I think the issue here is more specific than knowing what she wants in a general sense.

She needs to learn how to say no. If she can't do this, she needs to get help.

Ah, but I don't believe she really wants to say no.

Fury

 

[Kajira Callista]

Ah, but I don't believe she really wants to say no.

Fury

So why doesn't she just fuck him then?

To the op... maybe you are reading more into the situation then you realize? Maybe he just wants to have sex with you and he is sexually dominant?
Does not in any way mean he is looking for a D/s relationship. Think about it a bit...or maybe even try asking him.

 

[chris9]

Wildhate, I'm going to use some common sense here. I don't know you, I don't know this guy, so I can tell you neither if he's dominant nor if you're submissive.
You said this guy is a friend. It sounds as if both of you want to stay in contact, to see each other again and again. You think he might be wanting a rather serious relationship with you (though JM could be right and he only wants to get laid). You don't know if you want this.

What you've told us so far, to me it sounds as if you both need to spend more time talking and less time fooling around. And whatever his motivs, you need to take initiative. If you want to continue seeing him, meet him in a group of friends. Or go out for coffee, dinner, a beer, museum whatever. As friends, not as a date. Meaning both of you take care of your own transportation, pays their own stuff, leaves alone. Meet in a public place and talk. Or use the phone. In no way do you need to start talking sex right away. Use all your courage, tell him you are confused and don't want to see him alone, but would like to meet him in public. Stay firm, don't let him get you alone. That way you will certainly find out if he only wants to get laid, then he'll be gone pretty quickly. You will also get to know him better through his conversation, his interaction with others, that way allowing you to determine if he's long-term potential for you, a nice fuck-buddy or "just" a friend. If the last two, make it clear to him. If the first hope he sees the same in you.

Before and during all of this you need to learn more about yourself. You are sexually shy, big deal, most people start off that way. But you need to figure out what you want, what you like, what you need. This may be submission, pain, humiliation. It might also be romantic love-making with candle light. Whatever it is, accept it as a part of you. That's the thing that helped me overcome that sexual shyness at least a bit.

All this hopefully leads to more seriousness and decision in you, and more honesty and also seriousness in your relationship whatever it will end up being. If you find out what you want and continue to believe he might be a dominant person, try to talk about it, maybe in general terms, find out if he knows what he wants. Go from there. Either you both find you match, or you find you don't match. By fooling around the way you have been doing this won't get any easier. You might get used to being cornered and fingered, he might invent a new 'game'. You don't know where that will lead, but chances that it will lead to a serious, non-abusive relationship are small.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Finally!!! Thank you, LadyJeanne...What took you so long??!!

I don't spend much time on Lit anymore, and I mostly post in the Author's Hangout and HT Cafe, so don't usually come to this forum.


I think it might help if you explain more about the non-sexual part of your relationship with this guy...


I found a thread here that might be helpful to you regarding the differences between dominant person vs. Dom:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=472721

 

[Betticus]

Are you the only person that he does this with, or does this with successfully?

Do you want him to not do this to you?

Would you welcome this kind of behaviour with someone other than him, someone you are emotionally invested in and in a sexual relationship with?

When he told you to never be alone with him what part of that didn't you understand? Could it be an actual serious warning that you should be paying attention to?

This really doesn't sound much like dominant behaviour to me, I've never tried to pull off anything like that. I would make her ask for it.

Your mileage may vary but I think your friend is taking advantage of you for some personal reason.

 

[Netzach]

So why doesn't she just fuck him then?

...or maybe even try asking him.

We have a winner.

 

[1birdiegirl]

Maybe you should read these:

BDSM v Abuse

BDSM Abuse

Abuse and BDSM

Catalina

Thank you for those sites, Catalina. I think I just read my bio. It's some info i have been looking for.

 

[wildhate]

You're in your late twenties, and you haven't learned how to say no?

I believe that I mentioned that I never did actually say no....And not everyone's learning curve is the same.

JMohegan, your post comes off as a tad condescending. I dont need help, and I do know how to say no just fine. If I didnt, I am sure I would have had alot more than just 2 partners in my entire life.

Ah, but I don't believe she really wants to say no

BINGO.

Thanks for getting it, Furry.

So why doesn't she just fuck him then?

That would be too easy, now wouldnt it?

maybe you are reading more into the situation then you realize? Maybe he just wants to have sex with you and he is sexually dominant?

I have thought that maybe I was just reading into it...perhaps you are right.


Betticus, your answers are below:

Are you the only person that he does this with, or does this with successfully?

Yes, to my knowledge

Do you want him to not do this to you?

Yes and no

Would you welcome this kind of behaviour with someone other than him, someone you are emotionally invested in and in a sexual relationship with?

Hmmm...actually, I am emotionally invested in him...but I dont think I would welcome this with anyone else but him. At the very least, he likes it a tad strange, wouldnt you say? This is my first encounter with someone like that, so I guess it is hard to say.

When he told you to never be alone with him what part of that didn't you understand? Could it be an actual serious warning that you should be paying attention to?

I took steps to avoid this, but he makes it not so. I will explain this aspect further on.

chris9, thank you for your well thought out response....This last paragraph is what had me seeking for advice in the first place:

You might get used to being cornered and fingered, he might invent a new 'game'. You don't know where that will lead, but chances that it will lead to a serious, non-abusive relationship are small.

I think it might help if you explain more about the non-sexual part of your relationship with this guy...

For starters, we have been friends for 8 months. Around the second month, he told me he was seriously attracted to me. Around the fourth month, he claimed he wanted me for his own, for always. Around the last month (this month) his actions became alot more drastic, and this new aspect came about.

We have never had sex. We have fooled around, but not very often at all. Usually, during these encounters, I would just stop things all together when I felt uncomfortable and of course he would respect this. He mentioned that he knew why I always stopped him, that I became embarrassed and uncomfortable, and scared. He said he wants to break me of this. He told me he wants me to trust him, and fully, and only then can I find my release and be free.

I can sit with him for hours and not say a word, and he will immediately sense what I am feeling. I have never had such a feeling around someone else, before or since. He challanges me in a way I have never known before, he doesnt accept anything less from me. He is extremely insightful and refuses me to become distant with me. If and when I try to pull away, he senses it, and will close that gap. I know this sounds all mushy and weird, but truth be told, it is indeed the way things are between us.

I have a hard time trusting people. Most people just walk away from this. He refuses to. He tells me he wont stop until we are together, and that I have to work on breaking down that wall, and get used to him being around.

His mindset is that if he wants something, nothing will stop him from getting it. He is absolutely certain that he will get me in the end. That is part of his many goals. He tells me that he trusts in us, and in this, and that if I am just going to sit by idly and watch it go by, then it is up to him to pick up the slack.

more later

 

[wildhate]

When he told you to never be alone with him what part of that didn't you understand?

I understood him quite nicely and took steps to avoid him. Thing is, he told me to not be alone with him, and when I try to do that, he shows up to wherever I am, so its like a catch 22.

The reason things have been becoming increasingly concerning is that he is blackmailing me, in a round about way. Its not out and out blackmail, which he could have done, but rather, its seemingly small, little blackmails associated with a circumstance connected to a huge picture. He could just get it over with, and use the entire thing against me to get me to come crawling to him, but he hasnt decided to cross that thin line between love and hate just yet.

I asked him why he is teetering on the edge of this line with me, (because it is a curious thing, why he would use little blackmails when blackmailing the big picture would yeild far more results)

This is what he told me: He said that sometimes, when absolutely all else fails, and nothing more can be done, he will then as a last resort, absolutely do whatever he needs to do to make it happen, but not untill all other areas are exhausted. He said he doesnt like to play dirty, its not his way, but in the face of losing what he wants the most, he is not above playing dirty to get what he wants.

He tells me often, to try not to stop him, and try not to think much, to just go with it all, and maybe then I will have a clearer picture of how things can be.

I do enjoy pushing limits very very very much. I care not if that makes me sick or demented. Its just who I am. He knows that I like to do this, and tells me that its all fun and games now, but later, when I have no choice and I am lying helpless in his bed, in his life, with no possible way out, he wonders if I will regret playing so many games with him......Thus this is where he eludes to punishment, that will be hot, wild, fun and passionate, and just how he will unlock it all to make me beg.

He is a very patient man.

 

[silverstouch]

The reason things have been becoming increasingly concerning is that he is blackmailing me, in a round about way. Its not out and out blackmail, which he could have done, but rather, its seemingly small, little blackmails associated with a circumstance connected to a huge picture. He could just get it over with, and use the entire thing against me to get me to come crawling to him, but he hasnt decided to cross that thin line between love and hate just yet.

I asked him why he is teetering on the edge of this line with me, (because it is a curious thing, why he would use little blackmails when blackmailing the big picture would yeild far more results)

This is what he told me: He said that sometimes, when absolutely all else fails, and nothing more can be done, he will then as a last resort, absolutely do whatever he needs to do to make it happen, but not untill all other areas are exhausted. He said he doesnt like to play dirty, its not his way, but in the face of losing what he wants the most, he is not above playing dirty to get what he wants.

He tells me often, to try not to stop him, and try not to think much, to just go with it all, and maybe then I will have a clearer picture of how things can be.

This is my first post, but I have lurked for quite a while now. The above quote is really bringing up red flags for me. Someone should not have to blackmail you into getting what they want. It really just screams of a possibly an abusive situation or escalated to abuse. No one should "play dirty" to get what they want when it comes to a romantic relationship. I have to agree with other posters that he's not acting consensually.

Here is why I say this:

My husband decided he was determined to be with me. He jumped through hoops that my Mother had imposed hoping he would just go away. (I was 17 and he was 19.5. He was also more experienced in life than I was.) My Mother insisted I couldn't see him but every other week, and not at his place but out in public. She refused to give me bus fare to go see him, so rode by bus an hour and a quarter to come get me, pay my fare for me, take me to the mall or movie, ride with me all the way home, then ride all the way back out to his place. After a few months, my Mother let me see him every week, and visit his place every other week. 4 months in I scared the crap out him and asked him to marry me (bear in mind that it was a couple weeks before his 20th b-day), and instead of jetting out, he got me a ring. (It freak my Mom out really good.) Add on to this that I had been playing a few sexual games with him and causing painful sexual frustration for months before I realised I was going to get myself hurt if I didn't change my tactics. My point is he was patient, persistent (in that he kept jumping through hoops), and after all that he still treated me like a queen. He didn't need blackmail or coersion to get what he wanted. We are still together 10 years later.

I was in a relationship previous to this that used blackmail and coersion to get what he wanted, and I can tell you I wouldn't go back to that if I was offered the world in return. Your mileage may vary though.

 

[neonflux]

Wildhate,

I have been following this thread closely - needed to compose my thoughts before writing. Your initial post sent chills down my spine and made my gut wrench - neither in a good way. Please understand - I am not trying to be condescending - and I truly don't believe that anyone else who has responded to you was either. Whether you agree or disagree with what people are writing to you, I hope that you will take it as coming out of concern, not condescension.

I feel that you are ambivalent because you sense the danger in this man, despite what you make clear is your very strong attraction to him. I suspect (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong), that you came here confusing abuse with BDSM and hoping that we would reinforce your desires to follow your heart and sexual desire rather than your gut, which seems to be telling you that you shouldn't continue with this individual (if you haven't checked out Cat's links, I hope that you will).

Maybe you should read these:
BDSM v Abuse
BDSM Abuse
Abuse and BDSM
Catalina

You have been very clear about already having made your decision, regardless of your concerns - you are going to continue your relationship with this individual regardless of what anyone tells you. Therefore, what I am about to write is not meant for the present, but for the future IF what I fear is true and you eventually find yourself wanting, but finding it difficult, to get out.

I will tell you a bit of my story with the hopes that perhaps somewhere down the line it will resonate...

Your statement that you find intimacy difficult struck a chord with me, as this was the case through my teens and early 20's. My response was different from yours - instead of having no partners, I had many, insisting on an open relationship even when I felt close to someone. In my early 20's I met ~J - we were working in the same show (theatre). I fell head over heels. She was able to get under my skin in a way that no else had.

While she didn't do it in quite the same way as your guy, everything she did was designed to manipulate, to control, to make me bend my will to hers. She was quite passive-aggressive - played on my desires to nurture, played on my guilt, played on my past sexual history, played on my feelings of concern for her, my desire to assure her that I loved her. Had she been more direct, I probably would not have responded to her in the same way, but I was very young and the psychological manipulation was quite subtle in the beginning. By the time we started to live together, I had already lost a great deal of my natural self-esteem and self-confidence. BTW, this is what normally happens in abusive relationships.

The first time she hit me, over an imagined attraction to one of her close friends, I was stunned. Except for a couple of minor incidents that occured after my father got sick, I'd never experienced physical violence in my family and didn't know how to respond. I didn't hit back - I'm a sadist but it's not in me to hurt someone else in that way (if it happened now, I would have immediately walked away). The abuse escalated. The relationship finally ended when I locked her out of a bedroom; not able to get to me, she took a knife to her own hand/palm - when the police came, there was blood everywhere in the apartment, including on the ceiling. Luckily, I called a friend who had already sensed what was happening. I didn't go back, despite the fact that she was well-known in the women's community and I was the one who was seen as the "bad gal" in the break-up... The live-in relationship only lasted 5 months - it took me years to recover, to become myself again.

I don't know if your relationship will end in physical abuse, but it is certainly already psychologically abusive. It may be that JMohegan is correct, that all he wants is a fuck. I think he wants more - whether he wants a single fuck or a long-term relationship, I think he wants to hurt you, to break you. I am willing to admit that, not actually knowing either of you, none of my fears or anyone else's may bear out. However, as others have already stated, this is not BDSM. BDSM is based on the honest communication, negotiation, and a mutual exchange that benefits the self-esteem of both partners.

Yours is not an honest man. He definitely wants to manipulate you, to gain control - a control that he doesn't want to be consciously consensual, as that would give you power and equality in the relationship. Example: when he says to you that he would not blackmail unless forced to, he is already blackmailing you by threatening you with it, at the same time making you feel as though he is being "considerate" and "decent" because he hasn't actually told anyone else about whatever this secret is. This is not honest. It is manipulative. If typical, it will only get worse if you continue down this path.

I tremble for you, not as an "older" person who knows better, but rather as somewone who has already been where I am almost certain that you are going. One request - that you learn as much as possible about intimate partner abuse now, before you get in further, before you lose yourself. In addition to the links that Catalina already provided, one more place to start:

http://www.fhi.org/en/Topics/domviolence.htm

With heart,
Neon

 

[papilllon]

He said he doesnt like to play dirty, its not his way, but in the face of losing what he wants the most, he is not above playing dirty to get what he wants.

By using these words, he's telling you very clearly that he can't be trusted. Whatever his plan, game or intent, he will play dirty if you don't give in. If he wasn't that type of man, if he didn't like playing dirty, he would never have said such a thing. It's as simple as that.

And if you do give in, what about the next time you don't do what he wants? Will he blackmail you then? Why wouldn't he? Where does it stop? The question is, can you trust a man who tells you plainly that he's willing to play dirty to get his way?

The thing about abusers and manipulators is that they can be very very charming. They read people pretty well, find their weak spots and start working, grooming you and playing with your head until you're completely confused and don't know for sure where you stand anymore.

You deserve a man who can play fair and who will not trick you into anything. And as someone stated, the closer you come to this man, the more manipulative he'll become.

I really think you should forget about him, for your own good.

 

[LadyJeanne]

He requests that I start trusting him, and soon.

And he expects you to trust him though he threatens blackmail?

Blackmail is coercion, not seduction, and it's flat out wrong. Trust and blackmail are mutually exclusive. You might wish to point that out to him. On second thought, don't bother, just run.

I wish you'd mentioned the blackmail in the beginning. He's got a screw loose, Wildhate. You may be attracted to him and drawn toward him in some ways, but he most certainly doesn't have your best interests at heart and is in no way trustworthy. Fear and coercion aren't a foundation for any kind of relationship.

Enlist the help of your friends if necessary, but end all contact with him. Whatever your secret is, it can't possibly be worse than getting sucked into a situation where he's holding that over your head all the time.

 

[SpectreT]

And he expects you to trust him though he threatens blackmail?

Blackmail is coercion, not seduction, and it's flat out wrong. Trust and blackmail are mutually exclusive. You might wish to point that out to him. On second thought, don't bother, just run.

I wish you'd mentioned the blackmail in the beginning. He's got a screw loose, Wildhate. You may be attracted to him and drawn toward him in some ways, but he most certainly doesn't have your best interests at heart and is in no way trustworthy. Fear and coercion aren't a foundation for any kind of relationship.

Enlist the help of your friends if necessary, but end all contact with him. Whatever your secret is, it can't possibly be worse than getting sucked into a situation where he's holding that over your head all the time.

What she said.

 

[wildhate]

Neonflux~
Your entire reply was very well thought out, and very much appreciated, though I am sure the memories were a bit painful to recall. Thank you for sharing this with me....

You have been very clear about already having made your decision, regardless of your concerns - you are going to continue your relationship with this individual regardless of what anyone tells you.

I didnt get the impression that I already made my decision, and if that is the case, I want to assure all of you, I am still hedging on fence on this. All of this feedback has certainly had me raising an eyebrow, and rethinking some things that perhaps my overactive harmones chose to ignore.

I feel that you are ambivalent because you sense the danger in this man, despite what you make clear is your very strong attraction to him.

Very very insightful, Neonflux....That is exactly why I havent relented and entered a romantic relationship with him.

I suspect (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong), that you came here confusing abuse with BDSM and hoping that we would reinforce your desires to follow your heart and sexual desire rather than your gut, which seems to be telling you that you shouldn't continue with this individual

On this you are wrong...I actually came here to figure him out. I had not an inkling about this possibility until LadyJeanne suggested it to me on another forum, thus began this strange oddessy....

On a side note, what are the characteristics of a Dom to begin with? How would one know if they are dealing with one? How does one know if that was part of their past, and I have seen a couple of people here mention "training"...what is that all about??

Yours is not an honest man. He definitely wants to manipulate you, to gain control - a control that he doesn't want to be consciously consensual,

Consciously consensual.....what a concept..you really could be on to something here....so how do I pick his brain to see if that is the case?

He always says that he will never hurt me....But being human beings that we are, long to cover up the most tawdry aspects of our beings.

Example: when he says to you that he would not blackmail unless forced to, he is already blackmailing you by threatening you with it, at the same time making you feel as though he is being "considerate" and "decent" because he hasn't actually told anyone else about whatever this secret is. This is not honest. It is manipulative.

I guess I didnt think of it like that.

before you get in further, before you lose yourself

I have a hard time putting the brakes on anything once the ball gets rolling, but this one sentence describes a feeling I had not too long ago, one of the many that prompted me to seek advise...from an outside source, naturally...dont have family, dont have friends. Im a loner.

Thanks for the links, I did browse through, but will be back for more.

More excellent advice that I havent thought of: (thanks Papillion)

And if you do give in, what about the next time you don't do what he wants? Will he blackmail you then? Why wouldn't he? Where does it stop? The question is, can you trust a man who tells you plainly that he's willing to play dirty to get his way?

The thing about abusers and manipulators is that they can be very very charming. They read people pretty well, find their weak spots and start working, grooming you and playing with your head until you're completely confused and don't know for sure where you stand anymore.

I just more or less figured that I could take care of myself and that I would deal with that when the time came.

And he expects you to trust him though he threatens blackmail?

Thus my confusion.

Enlist the help of your friends if necessary

I have no one. Its only me. Nevertheless, I am sure I will be fine.

Whatever your secret is, it can't possibly be worse than getting sucked into a situation where he's holding that over your head all the time.

Perhaps.

My point is he was patient, persistent (in that he kept jumping through hoops), and after all that he still treated me like a queen. He didn't need blackmail or coersion to get what he wanted

So was he, up until recently. Perhaps he is overly frustrated. Actually, he still treats me extremely well, it is just this little aspect of it, that has my mind reeling.

 

[CutieMouse]

Consiously consensual- meaning no games. Two people honestly communicate what they want/need/expect out of a relationship, without playing games, using manipualtion, or blackmail, and then decide if they are compatable, or if it would be best to not enter into an intimate situation.

The fact that you are still "on the fence" with regards to someone who shows so little respect for you (blackmail? a willingness to play dirty just to get you?) speaks loud and clear. Neonflux is right- you appear to have made up your mind to continue with this mess of a whatever it is, because despite all the blunt advice and opinions posted in this thread, you still seem to consider this man worth considering as relationship material.

A receint thread discussing dominant traits, versus a Dominant in the BDSM sense-

Link

I will say again- this is not someone I'd even identify as a Friend, becuase Friends do not use blackmail or manipulation to get their way. Why let your hormones and emotions hand this person more power than he deserves? Do you really believe you deserve to be treated this way? No? Then cut him off at the knees, stand tall, and spend some time learning about yourself, so the situation does not repeat itself.

 

[Betticus]

I have this book about obsessive relationships and it seems that some of those criteria are being met in your relationship with this man. On both sides.

It sounds like you want to proceed into a sexual relationship with him though.

Good luck but it's not bdsm as far as I can tell. More like obsessive manipulation.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I've read this thread and I find it weird, all the way around. LOL

Normally, I just go with "would you fuck me and do it now, please?"

 

[chris9]

I understood him quite nicely and took steps to avoid him. Thing is, he told me to not be alone with him, and when I try to do that, he shows up to wherever I am, so its like a catch 22.

That's why I said to pick out public places. But I seriously want to draw back my initial post after reading on.

The reason things have been becoming increasingly concerning is that he is blackmailing me, in a round about way. Its not out and out blackmail, which he could have done, but rather, its seemingly small, little blackmails associated with a circumstance connected to a huge picture. He could just get it over with, and use the entire thing against me to get me to come crawling to him, but he hasnt decided to cross that thin line between love and hate just yet.

I asked him why he is teetering on the edge of this line with me, (because it is a curious thing, why he would use little blackmails when blackmailing the big picture would yeild far more results)

This is what he told me: He said that sometimes, when absolutely all else fails, and nothing more can be done, he will then as a last resort, absolutely do whatever he needs to do to make it happen, but not untill all other areas are exhausted. He said he doesnt like to play dirty, its not his way, but in the face of losing what he wants the most, he is not above playing dirty to get what he wants.

He tells me often, to try not to stop him, and try not to think much, to just go with it all, and maybe then I will have a clearer picture of how things can be.

I do enjoy pushing limits very very very much. I care not if that makes me sick or demented. Its just who I am. He knows that I like to do this, and tells me that its all fun and games now, but later, when I have no choice and I am lying helpless in his bed, in his life, with no possible way out, he wonders if I will regret playing so many games with him......Thus this is where he eludes to punishment, that will be hot, wild, fun and passionate, and just how he will unlock it all to make me beg.

He is a very patient man.

No, is is not a patient man, not even close to being a patient man.
You told us you have not even known each other for a year. He found early on that he is attracted to you. You don't seem to have felt the same way for him then. A few months later he told you he wants to "own you, for always". Great, whatever. Personally I would not tell someone always more about my feelings for them before they express (or show) that they feel something similar, but what do I know of different ways to win someone's heart. Then he starts taking liberties. Again, in itself, not something I would either like or do, but I'm prepared to accept that it can be done in a good way.

HOWEVER, he is blackmailing you. And not only a little, but full out. It doesn't make any difference whether he says that he will *tell your secret/whatever* unless you enter into a relationship with him or if he says he will *use blackmail* unless you do so. In German law -and since blackmailing is pretty universal, I expect it to be similar everywhere- the definition of blackmail is either using violence or threatening someone with a bad consequence should they not do what the blackmailer wants. This bad consequence can just as well be what you call full-out blackmail.

After only 8 months to start using dirty methods is everything but patient.


Had I known about this blackmailing I would never have written the post I wrote before. By telling you that he's willing to play dirty to 'get you' he is at the same time telling you that he does not respect your free choice. He decided that it's best for him and might even have convinced himself that it's best for you as well that you two have a relationship. He is willing to do everything to achieve this goal. If your will is against this goal, he has to break your will. That's what he is using blackmail for.
If you indeed enter a relationship with him, he'll do all he can to hold you in it. Make you dependent on him emotionally, financially, find other things he can use for blackmail.
If he wanted an honest relationship he would be patient, give you time to find out if you want this, let you decide for yourself, even if this decision went against him. But 'forcing' you in a relationship with blackmail won't allow you two to have a healthy and fulfilling relationship.


What worries me is that you say you don't have friends or family to support you. That makes you a great victim for abuse. It also explains why you still tolerate him. You might say that you can take care of yourself, and also believe this to be true. Still, I firmly believe that every person wants someone to love and be loved, that people are not meant to be alone.

In your shoes, my priorities would be:
1.) Run, hide, get away from this man, as fast as possible, as far as possible.
2.) Find a group (volunteer work, sports, whatever I like to do) of people to socialize with, to find friends. Won't happen in a week or a month, but patience pays.
3.) Find out about what I want from a relationship. It's easier to do this without a potential partner 'in the way', without hormones, feelings. That way it's possible that when looking those 'principles' of how the partner should be strong enough to test the potential.


If you need to vent, rant, storm, need support, e-hugs or anything else, please drop me a PM.