Scoring system rant

[AwkwardlySet]

I write the story that I believe should be told. I also write to be read, sure. I don't see the point in literally writing for myself. However I do not write to please the masses. I write the story the way I feel it should go - every word. Every story has it;s own audience. Some have broad appeal, others are niche or develop cult status. If you believe in your story and you remain true to it, and you put it out there to be seen, its audience will eventually find it.

The difference is, are you writing for the approval or the connection? I write for that connection - every time, every word.

Most writers don't understand this. They will say "I don't write for scores but I want to get a Red H," as if a Red H is separate from the score. Well this means that they do care about the score, at least in some way. They are kidding themselves.

It is ok to care about the score, in my opinion. Not because a high score means the story is good, but because that same high score means that more people will give your story a chance. I want to be read by as many readers as possible, while still writing the themes and tales I want to write. I don't want to compromise with that, even if it makes my stories borderline niche. That makes the scores even more important. That doesn't mean that I take scores as a measure of story quality, although there is some correlation there. I've seen too many stories that were badly written in my opinion, that still scored high because they played into readers' taste. And vice-versa. But a higher score means more people will click on your story, and fewer people will give up on it the first time they encounter a theme or kink they dislike.

 

[dadadadiox]

A while back I turned voting back on for all my stories here after leaving it off for years because I decided I didn't care about popularity and avoiding one-bombers was more important. IMO, all my stories deserve a 4, maybe a 5. I hoped for that scoring level on my return to being an erotica writer after pausing the career to focus on my marriage which ended several years ago. Then I came back due to emotional needs.

Now, I find myself hating the scoring system here. It's got me in a tizzy. I hate when my stories dip below a 3. I smile when the H appears, I've earned my second one recently. Then the first one vanished due to a single 1 vote after 16 high ratings. My newer stories seem unable to attain the same success. Average scores rank in the 3s or 4s with decimals. At least none has dipped below a three. I find myself having to accept I will never be more than average in the minds of most, great only in my own mind and that of my most fervent fans, whom I do know exist.

I am honestly happier with Favorites and Comments. At least I can delete the bad comments and not let them get to me. It's fine if people don't need to say anything. Positive comments are of course welcome. Favorites are cool, whether just bookmarking for later reads or actual favorites. Scores are something else. I honestly do not want to lock out voting again on all my work, but if the uno-bombers keep hitting me and I get depressed enough...

Please, people, if you have time, rate and review my work.

I am not asking people to do anything they don't want to do. I am begging for good feedback, yes, but I also value honest feedback more. I know people have limited time and interests. However, as an author, I need validation for the high levels of work I put into my stories. I'm also at a low point on creative energy right now and...

Please, people, if you are interested in doing so, read my stories using the link in my signature. Pick whatever interests you, no matter the category or age. I hope you will give me proper praise. I feel this board has many honest reviewers and I value their opinions. Take all the time you need. I will be patient and hopeful.

And if you want to rant with me about the depression generated by Lit's scoring system, ease my angst with sympathy... feel free to do that too. Thanks.

I’m with you on the voting system. It can be extremely demotivating.

My first story was about infidelity. I posted in Romance and was immediately blasted in comments, ‘cheating women are trash’, and other dumb, useless comments. Then the one-bombing started so I turned off voting after a story dropped the NEW tag. I got a sense of how it was being received without giving the one-star morons the satisfaction of staining my story forever. Then a strange thing happened… they stopped.

The final four chapters all got the coveted H tag and I have since left voting on. I will never permit anonymous comments. Anonymity is a weapon of trolls. I wish all ratings had a username attached. I also wish we could block one-bombers. I have many wishes.

The other strange thing that happened was my current story having a run of several H chapters… even with some one-star votes. It’s in non-erotic and that crowd seems to like my work more than the Romance crew. That’s one reason I’m so annoyed with mods moving my story out of non-erotic.

I confess to being sensitive and can get butt-hurt at times. Mostly it’s fury over these one-star creeps who have no clue how much work we put into these stories, have likely never created a single character or written a decent paragraph, and then decide they have the right to anonymously trash us. Yes, Lit gave them that tool… and it sucks.

Sorry for the rant. I’m triggered.

 

[dadadadiox]

I think every writer must find a way to embrace and absorb some version of the Serenity Prayer: basically, don't sweat what you cannot control. You cannot control how readers will react to your story. In response to this thread I scanned some of your stories. Some of them have scored well; some haven't. You have some very positive comments, so obviously you are connecting with some readers. Embrace the positive, and learn from the negative. You might try branching out into more categories to get a greater quantity and variety of feedback. The Celebrities category has low traffic, so you won't get much feedback and a handful of bad ratings can completely torpedo the story's score.

Serenity now. Serenity now.

 

[dadadadiox]

I hope your rating numbers improve. But, at the risk of overstepping, I might suggest an examination of why you're writing, and why these scores matter so much to you. If you're looking to please the crowd, then I'm sure you're capable of writing crowd pleasers, catered toward the high views/ratings. From other comments I've seen on this forum, seems like I/T 'strokers' are a pretty good way to do that. If that's not what you're into, then write what you want to write and maybe just work on being okay with not everyone loving it? It's impossible to please everyone. There are people out there that don't like *, after all.

* Seinfeld, the Beatles, pizza, coffee, boobs - take your pick, whatever strikes you as most self-evidently unassailable.

I’m just guessing here, but I suspect he’s not trying to please a crowd. He’s just asking for an honest rating rather than have one-bombing creeps stalk him chapter after chapter.

If I read a story and I don’t like it, I leave no rating because I know how hard that writer worked on his/her piece. It’s just not for me, so I stop reading. Only a petty jackass would seek out what they know they don’t like just to trash it.

I wrote an epilogue for my first story with my characters discussing this very problem as I addressed the issue of shitty critics in that story.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I’m with you on the voting system. It can be extremely demotivating.

My first story was about infidelity. I posted in Romance and was immediately blasted in comments, ‘cheating women are trash’, and other dumb, useless comments. Then the one-bombing started so I turned off voting after a story dropped the NEW tag. I got a sense of how it was being received without giving the one-star morons the satisfaction of staining my story forever. Then a strange thing happened… they stopped.

The final four chapters all got the coveted H tag and I have since left voting on. I will never permit anonymous comments. Anonymity is a weapon of trolls. I wish all ratings had a username attached. I also wish we could block one-bombers. I have many wishes.

The other strange thing that happened was my current story having a run of several H chapters… even with some one-star votes. It’s in non-erotic and that crowd seems to like my work more than the Romance crew. That’s one reason I’m so annoyed with mods moving my story out of non-erotic.

I confess to being sensitive and can get butt-hurt at times. Mostly it’s fury over these one-star creeps who have no clue how much work we put into these stories, have likely never created a single character or written a decent paragraph, and then decide they have the right to anonymously trash us. Yes, Lit gave them that tool… and it sucks.

Sorry for the rant. I’m triggered.

Try to change your focus.

Do you think Stephen King and the movie directors want his audience to LOVE his gory fiction movies?
"OMG! Wasn't that a beautiful scene when the guy was dismembered?!!!"
It would take some sick minds in the audience to watch those movies and say they LOVED it.

Look for making an emotional connection and impact on a reader. Then you've gotten a win with even the HATERS!

You caught someone's attention!

 

[lovecraft68]

Try to change your focus.

Do you think Stephen King and the movie directors want his audience to LOVE his gory fiction movies?
"OMG! Wasn't that a beautiful scene when the guy was dismembered?!!!"
It would take some sick minds in the audience to watch those movies and say they LOVED it.

Look for making an emotional connection and impact on a reader. Then you've gotten a win with even the HATERS!

You caught someone's attention!

Um....horror fans do love gory movies, just saying.

I agree about the comments, even an angry one means you got a reaction out of the reader...just not a good one.

 

[AchtungNight]

FYI, I am not a fan of dishonest love bombing either. I am a Freezoner and a victim of multiple online con artists, after all. It is hard for me to tell the difference between honest praise and the opposite. So it feels better for me to lock out all scoring rather than expose my work to haters. I hope people understand that.

I appreciate the attention, everyone. Thank you. Please review my stories or continue discussion here if you are interested. Otherwise you are free to move on.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I’m with you on the voting system. It can be extremely demotivating.

My first story was about infidelity. I posted in Romance and was immediately blasted in comments, ‘cheating women are trash’, and other dumb, useless comments. Then the one-bombing started so I turned off voting after a story dropped the NEW tag. I got a sense of how it was being received without giving the one-star morons the satisfaction of staining my story forever. Then a strange thing happened… they stopped.

The final four chapters all got the coveted H tag and I have since left voting on. I will never permit anonymous comments. Anonymity is a weapon of trolls. I wish all ratings had a username attached. I also wish we could block one-bombers. I have many wishes.

The other strange thing that happened was my current story having a run of several H chapters… even with some one-star votes. It’s in non-erotic and that crowd seems to like my work more than the Romance crew. That’s one reason I’m so annoyed with mods moving my story out of non-erotic.

I confess to being sensitive and can get butt-hurt at times. Mostly it’s fury over these one-star creeps who have no clue how much work we put into these stories, have likely never created a single character or written a decent paragraph, and then decide they have the right to anonymously trash us. Yes, Lit gave them that tool… and it sucks.

Sorry for the rant. I’m triggered.

I used to never have anon commente turned on. I never turned them off anywhere else I write. I see as much, if not more grief about it on r/fanfiction. I never had a problem on those fanfic sites. After turning them back on here, I still don't have a problem. Fanfic writers are the most softest of writers if there ever was. "Oh noezzz... concrit!" "I've only had three comments in the first hour of posting. I'm just going to delete the whole thing." It's really hard not getting banned there with those crybabies.

 

[AchtungNight]

I used to never have anon commente turned on. I never turned them off anywhere else I write. I see as much, if not more grief about it on r/fanfiction. I never had a problem on those fanfic sites. After turning them back on here, I still don't have a problem. Fanfic writers are the most softest of writers if there ever was. "Oh noezzz... concrit!" "I've only had three comments in the first hour of posting. I'm just going to delete the whole thing." It's really hard not getting banned there with those crybabies.

I have gotten positive reviews from Anonymous as well as negative ones. I will leave those on.

Yes, I have a confidence problem. So did a wannabe Army Ranger who told me that once. I might be considered a crybaby but that is only your opinion and I will politely ask you not to label me as such again.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I have gotten positive reviews from Anonymous as well as negative ones. I will leave those on.

Yes, I have a confidence problem. So did a wannabe Army Ranger who told me that once. I might be considered a crybaby but that is only your opinion and I will politely ask you not to label me as such again.

I don't know niether this army ranger or when I called you a crybaby. Also I have some confidence problems, too.

 

[AchtungNight]

I don't know niether this army ranger or when I called you a crybaby.

You said fanfic writers are crybabies. I’m a fanfic writer. If I misinterpreted your words… I’m not out to enrage you. I’m just having a bit of fun.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

You said fanfic writers are crybabies. I’m a fanfic writer. If I misinterpreted your words… I’m not out to enrage you. I’m just having a bit of fun.

Oh. I was sbout to say- because I am too, dawg. You good.

 

[dadadadiox]

I just want to add that this thread is a good read. I'm relatively new here. I suffer from writer's anxiety; fussing and fidgeting, rewording and rewriting, and getting all OCD. It's comforting to see I'm not alone. Misery loves company.

I'm not new to Lit. I joined in 2005 when I was in the final year of a dreadful 22-year marriage. I stayed for my sons and paid a heavy price. I never considered submitting here because my insecurity blocked me. I came close, around 2011, but it took another decade before I finally dove in. Then a moderator rejected one chapter and it set me back another two years.

Now the mods are fucking with me again and I feel demotivated. Words offered here and in other threads are helpful.

Did I mention I'm a sensitive old man? I'm cranky too. It's not a good combination.

 

[KeithD]

There is only one submissions editor here. Laurel.

 

[AchtungNight]

There is only one submissions editor here. Laurel.

One submissions editor with final authority. Dozens of stories get submitted here every day- she has a staff and bots at least to help her, I hope.

 

[KeithD]

One submissions editor with final authority. Dozens of stories get submitted here every day- she has a staff and bots at least to help her, I hope.

No staff, I think. And it's closer to 100 new stories to process every day.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Um....horror fans do love gory movies, just saying.

Of course, a horror fan would say that.

Take a deeper look within ... and follow the thread. Just saying.

 

[mirafrida]

the people bitter over score and views on their stories they perceive as being to low have taken to the accusation that no popular story is actually good.

I suppose there must be examples of this sort of commentary floating around, and probably you'll point some out to me. But I don't recall perceiving this (an inverse correlation between rating/popularity and "goodness") to have been the thrust of any of the recent complaints about ratings. More like what Wanda said, that the two don't have very much to do with each other.

Of course, I think the fact that we keep coming back to talking about "goodness" (whatever that means) in the context of ratings is basically the problem. The constant conflation of the two, as relentlessly encouraged by the site UI, is why authors have so much angst. If the current system provided some countervailing value for readers, then it would be justifiable - but I'm very skeptical that readers do benefit from the current emphasis on ratings. I think it's more likely to get in the way of the average reader finding a story they will like, than helpful in that regard. At least that was my experience as a reader.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Of course, a horror fan would say that.

It does seem like horror fans would be the most reliable sources of information on what horror fans like.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I suppose, since no one pays to read, your observation is correct. And yet, scores are all over the place on individual stories. Some have very low scores, some have middle-of-the-road, and some have high scores. There are no voting systems that can't be scammed. Even being a paying customer for rating something doesn't ensure honesty in reviews or votes. I have no complaints with our system, pimples, blemishes, and flaws included. I would like more reader feedback. The s are good, the comments are better, and a heart and a comment sends me to the moon. But we have what we have, and it isn't likely to change. A three-tier voting system would only ensure fewer voters would bother. If someone likes the stories and favors it, most often, they don't vote. If they commented and liked, more times than not, they didn't vote. If they hated and commented, they voted you a one, just to be sure you got their point. But all in all, I see no way to avoid issues.

Thumbs-up thumbs-down would work far far better here than what we have. It would be far more accurate. Think about just how many people here vote not based on quality at all and just give a 5 if they liked it and don't vote if they didn't. A 5 is simply a thumbs-up, but then we can't tell how many non-votes are legit thumbs-down. The 1 to 5 scale here is quite useless.

 

[onehitwanda]

one of the biggest lessons I've ever learned is that friction of any sort has an exponential damping effect on engagement. Lit's system may have its flaws, but it is pretty close to frictionless. Want to respond to a story? There's no need to register, no need to provide identifying details, you can literally page directly to the last page, scroll down below the fold, and click on 1 star, or 5 stars if that's your thing.

It's hard to think of how this could be simpler, other than putting the stars on the first page.

The rating system may be questionable, but the UI is pretty near perfect for its intended purpose

I can't help but think that any change made to it would make things worse

 

[AchtungNight]

one of the biggest lessons I've ever learned is that friction of any sort has an exponential damping effect on engagement. Lit's system may have its flaws, but it is pretty close to frictionless. Want to respond to a story? There's no need to register, no need to provide identifying details, you can literally page directly to the last page, scroll down below the fold, and click on 1 star, or 5 stars if that's your thing.

It's hard to think of how this could be simpler, other than putting the stars on the first page.

The rating system may be questionable, but the UI is pretty near perfect for its intended purpose

I can't help but think that any change made to it would make things worse

The only friction it creates for me is the vulnerability to one-bombers and low numbers of votes dragging down my confidence. If not for that, I’d appreciate it.

If Hs were permanent and easier to earn… if wishes were horses… if fanfics were real…

 

[alohadave]

The only friction it creates for me is the vulnerability to one-bombers and low numbers of votes dragging down my confidence. If not for that, I’d appreciate it.

This isn't the only site that complains about them.

Hell, reddit only has up and down, and people complain about being downvoted all the time.

 

[onehitwanda]

This isn't the only site that complains about them.

Hell, reddit only has up and down, and people complain about being downvoted all the time.

yeah, but reddit is the lower intestine of the internet. We're slightly better here.

 

[Euphony]

yeah, but reddit is the lower intestine of the internet. We're slightly better here.

Pyloric Sphincter with delusions of grandeur?