Seriously...

[twelveoone]

I always think if one wants to stand a chance of being remembered one has to aim very high or aim very low, being just good is not good enough as there is a lot of good poetry out there. One needs to be different and that means taking the chance on failing and being ridiculed. Orthodoxy is for the orthodox, its a safe haven, its where you know there are like minded people who will support your efforts because you give them confirmation and they will give you similar conformation. How you find a distinctive voice is another matter. I'm not sure being true to ones self is an answer to that, we learn our voices through education and experience so it is learnt and means it can be unlearnt. Myself, I like to experiment and to hell with whether the work is seen as good or not, experimenting just keeps me interested.

Particular poems by 1201, Tzara, Wicked etc. still rattle in my head long after I have read them. Whether they are critically good poems or not just seems irrelevent, they stay with me and that's how I measure them.

Eve did that to me once, only it was olfactory.

How have you been, Bog? I keep meaning to write something for TZ's ecto-spastic challedge? Hello-Dali! But I figure I don't have ghost of chance to shake anything down.

 

[Tzara]

psst, did I ever mention I was jealous of you, ah, and Bogusbrig?

bb and I are just good friends.

 

[DeepAsleep]

Excellent, if I may impose: precise control she exerts over her words could you explain this, further? What does she do that you feel you lack?

So far those that answered, go for somebody that does something right that they themselves feel they have problems with. Certainly a very encourging sign.

Ange to pushed outside her comfort zone.
which may be similar to (but not quite)
sophieloves who seems to see CicatrixESP and Black Shanglan as perhaps being further along in a path already chosen.
Maybe the same for Tathagata and DeepAsleep
Correct me if I'm wrong

But your answer Liar, seems at first glance to be like mine, a 180 degree turn around.

Precise vs polysemic (you've used that term)
a paradox?
I'm interested.

Sure, you're right about me.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

1201

I think something you said in post #1 is as close to how I think - ".....they are what I am not". I can't possibly single out any one poet, either in here or out in the world. Any number of people blow me away with their work. I do wish I could write more cerebral poems, deeper, more worldly but - as Neil would say - "it's just my style, man."

 

[bogusbrig]

How have you been, Bog? I keep meaning to write something for TZ's ecto-spastic challedge? Hello-Dali! But I figure I don't have ghost of chance to shake anything down.

Hi 1201, I'm doing fine. I've got an exhibition in February and that is taking all my time which is why I'm barely writing anything and when I do I don't have time to edit it so I just end up with notes for future reference. I keep looking in though to see how everyone is going and checking out the poetry. It's good to see you are as venomous as ever (in the nicest possible way of course.) and Tzara is as entertaining and insightful as ever. Until Febrauary I'll just be lurking in the shadows but I hope to be back with some new work in the New Year.

 

[twelveoone]

bb and I are just good friends.

I meant as writers, two different writers

Ok if you want me to be jealous of you two as friends, maybe, but it will cost you

Dearly

you pick up the tab at the Bukoski poetry fest

and you take the notes

Hey, Buk got reviewed in the Sunday New York Times, pass it on to Tath for me, so I can laugh my ass off at the thought of him running around BOSTON looking for yesterday's NEW YORK times.

You pass it on- every time I mention either Buk or New York we start shooting at each other.

and I think we're friends, at least on even numbered days

 

[twelveoone]

Hi 1201, I'm doing fine. I've got an exhibition in February and that is taking all my time which is why I'm barely writing anything and when I do I don't have time to edit it so I just end up with notes for future reference. I keep looking in though to see how everyone is going and checking out the poetry. It's good to see you are as venomous as ever (in the nicest possible way of course.) and Tzara is as entertaining and insightful as ever. Until Febrauary I'll just be lurking in the shadows but I hope to be back with some new work in the New Year.

Christ, I thought this stuff just came poring out, I'm not so jealous now.

Good luck with the exhibition.

 

[twelveoone]

I think something you said in post #1 is as close to how I think - ".....they are what I am not". I can't possibly single out any one poet, either in here or out in the world. Any number of people blow me away with their work. I do wish I could write more cerebral poems, deeper, more worldly but - as Neil would say - "it's just my style, man."

Well ,Tess, I was just thinking, I have excesses in writing style (so to speak), so right off at least half of my ideas won't work (you don't see those) the other half, well, I don't know. Both people I mentioned are conservative, subtle, experienced writers, a perfect counter balance, and yet both have excellent senses or humour.

I just don't see you as needing one...unless you want to get excessive...go write something where the reader can't tell if its a noun or verb, where you think you see something...and its not there..its something else, do something because so one said it was a bad idea...

There is the door, someone closed it, smash it so hard the splinters fly, and laugh, because you made it through, It Lives, it lives, and then laugh when some dip shit leaves an anonomous comment "I don't like the...."

nah, you don't want to do that.
Hell, I pulled most of my stuff, because it sets a bad example. (Well some of it was just bad - disposable)

Keep doing what you are doing, its not a bad place, and you do it well. In your case I just don't really see "problem" areas. The only problem is that area is occupied by alot of people. You've written some things that stand out as a unique voice - keep it up.

 

[Tzara]

I meant as writers, two different writers

Really? Oh, gosh, I'm sorry.



You can be so serious at times. I think it's that steady diet of Pound cake with that overrich Eliot frosting. I mean, that's just not healthy, is it?

Geez, man. Slack off and read some Helen Steiner Rice. She'll settle your soul for you.

Maybe.

 

[twelveoone]

Really? Oh, gosh, I'm sorry.



You can be so serious at times. I think it's that steady diet of Pound cake with that overrich Eliot frosting. I mean, that's just not healthy, is it?

Geez, man. Slack off and read some Helen Steiner Rice. She'll settle your soul for you.

Maybe.

So am I, I really had this image as you two being Siamese twins...now that is gone, I'm devasted got to go fill this emptyness.

Which Canto do you recommend? XV?

or the one that starts off

And Kong walked
Manhattan was his new kingdom now
.....................and lo
................................. de planes, de planes

 

[Tzara]

So am I, I really had this image as you two being Siamese twins...now that is gone, I'm devasted got to go fill this emptyness.

Which Canto do you recommend? XV?

or the one that starts off

And Kong walked
Manhattan was his new kingdom now
.....................and lo
................................. de planes, de planes

Sorry, Tattoo. That will take me a while. I was choking up on my limp intellect.

But then quickly, I change the subject to Zukofsky's Poem Beginning Pee.



Yes, a very low joke. Made subterranean, even. I was simply forced to void. (Ow!) It was simply a swift, defensive measure so that I can marshal my defenses, such as they are (not).

 

[twelveoone]

Sorry, Tattoo. That will take me a while. I was choking up on my limp intellect.

But then quickly, I change the subject to Zukofsky's Poem Beginning Pee.



Yes, a very low joke. Made subterranean, even. I was simply forced to void. (Ow!) It was simply a swift, defensive measure so that I can marshal my defenses, such as they are (not).

Keine Messe wird man singen,
keinen Kadosch wird man sagen.
Nichts gesagt und nichts gesungen
wird an meinen Sterbetagen.
eh?

 

[Liar]

Excellent, if I may impose: precise control she exerts over her words could you explain this, further? What does she do that you feel you lack?

So far those that answered, go for somebody that does something right that they themselves feel they have problems with. Certainly a very encourging sign.

Ange to pushed outside her comfort zone.
which may be similar to (but not quite)
sophieloves who seems to see CicatrixESP and Black Shanglan as perhaps being further along in a path already chosen.
Maybe the same for Tathagata and DeepAsleep
Correct me if I'm wrong

But your answer Liar, seems at first glance to be like mine, a 180 degree turn around.

Precise vs polysemic (you've used that term)
a paradox?
I'm interested.

Well, i guess you're kinda wrong. Not about them but about me. What I look for is not something completely alien to me, something that would negate how I write today. But something I try to do, but feel that I'm less...I guess...competent at, than other parts of my writing.

I tend to have exact control ocer prododics and pacing when I write (I can easily blurt out rhyming doggerrel in exact meter) but the exact meaning of everything gets to take a backseat. Semiotic meaning, cultural references, the place the words I chose have semantically compared to one another... tends to get sloppy.

For instance... If you say so, I'm not going to contest that I've used the world "polysemic". What does that mean? I'm sure I had a good hunch when I used it, based on some context in which I've seen it. But I can't be sure because I didn't look it up. And niehter did that bother me when I sat down and wrote.

 

[Angeline]

Well, i guess you're kinda wrong. Not about them but about me. What I look for is not something completely alien to me, something that would negate how I write today. But something I try to do, but feel that I'm less...I guess...competent at, than other parts of my writing.

I tend to have exact control ocer prododics and pacing when I write (I can easily blurt out rhyming doggerrel in exact meter) but the exact meaning of everything gets to take a backseat. Semiotic meaning, cultural references, the place the words I chose have semantically compared to one another... tends to get sloppy.

For instance... If you say so, I'm not going to contest that I've used the world "polysemic". What does that mean? I'm sure I had a good hunch when I used it, based on some context in which I've seen it. But I can't be sure because I didn't look it up. And niehter did that bother me when I sat down and wrote.

And how about my part of the question, my dear Liar? Do you find it easier to execute control over prododics and pacing when you write in English as compared to in Swedish? And would you be so kind to define prododics? I presume it has to do with rhythm and stresses, but I can't find a definition of it anywhere.

Tack!
Ange

 

[Liar]

And how about my part of the question, my dear Liar? Do you find it easier to execute control over prododics and pacing when you write in English as compared to in Swedish? And would you be so kind to define prododics? I presume it has to do with rhythm and stresses, but I can't find a definition of it anywhere.

Tack!
Ange

A typo and a less-than-often used grammatic varation on my pehalf... prosody.

I guess I don't have to fret as much about the current implications of a word, or the wear-and-tear of an expression when I write in a language I don't speak it every day. Also, let me turn the question around... I've seen a handful of y'all (you included I think?) include Spanish and on some occasion Itanian lines in your poems. I assume you know what those mean. Tell me, how much do you then look at the flair of the language, and does that affect what words you choose?

 

[Angeline]

A typo and a less-than-often used grammatic varation on my pehalf... prosody.

I guess I don't have to fret as much about the current implications of a word, or the wear-and-tear of an expression when I write in a language I don't speak it every day. Also, let me turn the question around... I've seen a handful of y'all (you included I think?) include Spanish and on some occasion Itanian lines in your poems. I assume you know what those mean. Tell me, how much do you then look at the flair of the language, and does that affect what words you choose?

Prosodics? Damn! I was expecting some complicated linguistical type definition.

Mostly, I use Spanish because I have a fair reading knowledge of it. I use Yiddish, too, sometimes, which I probably know better than Spanish. I studied Spanish in college; I grew up listening to my elders speak Yiddish, mainly when they didn't want "der kinder" to know what was going on. It didn't work. Anyway I don't think in Spanish but when I want to use it for accent or tone, I choose my spots very carefully, look for points where the foreign words would have the most impact in the context of the poem. And then I bug Lauren Hynde to check it for me, so I don't say something ridiculous like "Darling, embrace my umbrella."

And I try to be careful, too, to have enough contextual clues around the foreign words so that the reader can infer what I mean without looking anything up. That's especially important when I use Yiddish words, which I suspect fewer people recognize than the Spanish ones. I hate having to footnote stuff in my poems.

But see that tells me that your fluency, obviously, is much greater than mine because in spite of your not fretting, you mostly manage to chose just the right words, imho.

 

[hmmnmm]

seems to me that it is a case to case situation in which the multiplicity of combinations and measures of the whos, whats, whens, whys, and wheres will affect each individual case. A replication of life itself.

 

[twelveoone]

Well, i guess you're kinda wrong. Not about them but about me. What I look for is not something completely alien to me, something that would negate how I write today. But something I try to do, but feel that I'm less...I guess...competent at, than other parts of my writing.

I tend to have exact control ocer prododics and pacing when I write (I can easily blurt out rhyming doggerrel in exact meter) but the exact meaning of everything gets to take a backseat. Semiotic meaning, cultural references, the place the words I chose have semantically compared to one another... tends to get sloppy.

For instance... If you say so, I'm not going to contest that I've used the world "polysemic". What does that mean? I'm sure I had a good hunch when I used it, based on some context in which I've seen it. But I can't be sure because I didn't look it up. And niehter did that bother me when I sat down and wrote.

Thanks, Liar. Since I was looking for an exact opposite of me, maybe I should have mentioned you. When I am serious it is the exact word trying for at least three meanings, and everything else gets sloppy.

 

[twelveoone]

Vampiredust, for his uncanny ability to consistently find a fresh topos, an unexploreed perspective from which to view the world around him. His output in the passion thread and other places here is not always polished and presented in an optimal way, but the ideas are always of that kind that makes me go "Huh. Wow. Interresting. I didn't know you could see it that way, but now that I have, it makes perfect sense." That, is a poet's eye.

I saw it today, same reaction.
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=340618

leaking sepia of memory

Good call, would like to see him in print, very orginal. Thanks.