Sex with 16y vs. Rape stories ?

[TheEarl]

Nmcvoyeur: I think it's very difficult to make a point using statistics in sociology and psychology, because you can't compare two people. Even two headcases are going to have different minds and that's what makes them such annoying and in some cases futile sciences. All a matter of opinion.

Jon Hayworth: I am very aware of the stupid and anachronistic laws that are in effect in this country and well aware that if I go on a site that has pop-ups I could get arrested for the content on those pop-ups, despite not going to that site. Why do you think that I'm under a complete pseudonym here? Even my e-mail address is in the name of T. Earl. As far as I'm aware one piece of the act prohibits any information that "has the possibility to corrupt or deprave." Completely aside from the very ambiguous wording, my writing has that possibility and I can't even claim artistic merit.
There are always the lawyers who tried defending their clients who shot up a scholl by saying they were driven to it by Doom. Or the Daily Mail which tried to establish a link between September 11th and Microsoft Flight Simulator, because it's possible to crash a plane into the Trade Centre on the game. People can be incredibly stupid sometimes.

Laurel: Just out of interest, why does one of the stories on the incest list involve a 16 y/o girl? I read it ages ago, think it was called First Night. Not arguing, just wondering if there was a caveat for that author.

 

[DVS]

The reason for this is the UK's Protection of Children Act, (Earl you might care to take a look at its draconian provisions). That means if you download images (define images) that relate to young people and sex you can end up in jail and on the Sex Offenders Register.jon

Oh, we have that in the U.S., too. If you are found to have compromising images of young boys or girls on your computer, you can be held almost as if you took those pictures, yourself.

I have seen popups show up in HTML emails that show very young looking pics (or course they "say" they are over 18) when you have no control over this. And, because of the way a computer browser works, that image is now on your computer (every image shown on a computer screen ends up on your computer, if some people don't know).

And, kind of on the other side of that issue, there was a mother arrested, when she came to pick up photos she had taken of her child, while taking a bath. They were innocent shots any loving parent would take, but an overly cautious photo lab technician called the police. She was taken to jail and charged with endangering a child and taking compromising photos of a minor.

I never heard any more about this particular case, so I hope it all came out OK. But, because of the laws involved, police have to follow through, in some cases.

I completely understand and agree that laws have to be written and enforced for our children's safety. But, it seems to me there are some situations that can and do get out of hand.

Even if the officers involved don't think there are valid charges, they are sometimes scrutinized if they don't haul the person in. It is a catch 22.

 

[jon.hayworth]

Hi Earl,

I was not having a dig at you - I simply wanted to make the point to our colleagues who live in countries where there rights are to some extent protected by a constitution the regime that we live under.

However I do fear that unless you are using a laptop in hotel rooms or other people's PC's your security attempts are futile, because our web use is monitored in various ways.

jon

 

[KillerMuffin]

That's easy enough to explain, Earl. Laurel reads between 80 to 100 stories a night. Even the most hawkish person would miss a thing or two. It happens. Just notify Laurel (which you just did) and the problem will be rectified eventually.

 

[NCmVoyeur]

I agree with [TheEarl] that our choice of entertainment does not cause us to do what we do, in life. Entertainment is so widespread that we all would be doing these evil things, if this was the case.

I do feel entertainment could be a trigger for the people who already had the preconceived notion in their head. Although, that in itself should not be enough to blame entertainment. these personalities and not the stimulus itself as the cause.

The first paragraph proceeds from a faulty, overly deterministic view of 'causation.'

Cigarette smoking is--without serious question--held to cause lung cancer, notwithstanding a) some people develop lung cancer who have never smoked and b) many who smoke never develop lung cancer. Yet the link between smoking and lung cancer is so well proven that few (not even the tobacco industry) claim to challenge it with a straight face anymore.

The same could be true in the violent porn-rape situation: some may be affected, even though many are not, and the causative link established.

Your second paragraph touches better upon the real issue, though by saying it's 'predisposition,' and not the environmental stimulus, you're still assuming away much of the problem.

Same analogy: the mechanism by which some smokers develop lung cancer, while others do not, isn't understood. It may be that those who develop the disease have a 'genetic predisposition.' Do we exonerate the influence of tobacco on that account? No.

Nmcvoyeur: I think it's very difficult to make a point using statistics in sociology and psychology, because you can't compare two people. Even two headcases are going to have different minds and that's what makes them such annoying and in some cases futile sciences. All a matter of opinion.

More fallacious reasoning. We compare people and groups all the time. Save for studies involving identical twins, those people are never the same. It is precisely because people aren't the same that broad studies are done. Otherwise, we could just test one person and extrapolate from there to the population at large.

When a new pharmaceutical product (e.g., an anti-depressant) is sought to be introduced, the effects of the drug are tested across many persons, no two of whom are the same. Some may respond favorably, some not at all, some may exhibit negative reactions. If the negative reaction is significant (even though small as a percentage of the group), that may be enough to keep the product off the market.

Do you conclude that those results are invalid because the people weren't alike? That would be absurd. And if a test involving a person's mental state (depression) is valid as a 'medical' study, why does it become invalid merely because it's labelled a 'psychology' study?

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

Has anyone else noticed that Lit's new first-time
area includes some stories about girls who are ostensibly
eighteen, but act much younger?
One story I read included a TRAINING bra.

 

[mlyn]

If women could as easily rape a man....

the world would be a very different place indeed. Nearly every man I've seen posting on the Internet, refuses to discuss being raped by a man. And I would bet that some men would even be tittillated by the idea of a woman forcing them to have sex.

I read a story once about a woman who drugged a man, tied him up and kept him so, repeatedly arousing him and having him cum inside her. She was raping him... force, restraint and loss of control were all involved. The writer revealed the horror this man experienced. But since this was a romance story, he escaped, captured her... and you can guess the rest.

I think the problem is not the story, just as the gun is not the problem. The problem is when they get into the hands of the wrong people...

Take care,
mlyn

 

[SlickTony]

I work for Children's Protection Services.

Interesting, Chele! I happen to work for an agency that's contracted to the Department of Children & Families. Needless to say, they don't know about my hobby. Despite the fact that I have a novel in the works which includes a relationship between a seventeen-year-old girl and a man in his early 40s, I'm OK with Laurel's rule about no characters under 18, even though it means that I can't test-run any scenes from this relationship here. CYA--that's what getting along in the world is all about. I'd hate to have anything like that happen to this fine site.

It so happens that I have read real-life accounts (police reports) written by eight-year-olds, and you're right, it's not pretty.

However, I have also read accounts (not in police reports) of sexual activity written by young women who somehow were aware of their sexuality from an early age and weren't afraid to explore it, and you wonder, how on earth do these girls get along in a culture that seems to be constantly dinning into them that what they're feeling, their curiosity, is not OK, and that they're supposed to be terrified, etc. Having had to conceal my deep interest in erotic fiction in the midst of a family, in a time, that professed to find it abnormal and disgusting, you have to wonder--what does it do to a person to realize that she will be viewed with horror for what she is?

 

[TheEarl]

More fallacious reasoning. We compare people and groups all the time. Save for studies involving identical twins, those people are never the same. It is precisely because people aren't the same that broad studies are done. Otherwise, we could just test one person and extrapolate from there to the population at large.

When a new pharmaceutical product (e.g., an anti-depressant) is sought to be introduced, the effects of the drug are tested across many persons, no two of whom are the same. Some may respond favorably, some not at all, some may exhibit negative reactions. If the negative reaction is significant (even though small as a percentage of the group), that may be enough to keep the product off the market.

That's not the same NCmVoyeur. You cannot say that "This has that effect on people at large," because that effect occurs on a minority. Hmm...let me think of an example. In Chemistry, if you are testing an effect, then you keep all the variables not involved constant to prevent them from interfering with the result. How can you do that with human minds? We don't even know what affects what, let alone how to keep things constant. This is specious reasoning, you are drawing a conclusion from incomplete evidence. Using tobacco is not a good example as there is actual incontrovertable proof that tobacco can cause lung cancer.

A peasant sits by a fence every day. The fence has one panel missing in it. Every day at the same time, a donkey walks past, then a man, then a dog. After a few days the peasant jumps up and shouts "I understand now, the donkey causes the dog."

 

[PetaTenna]

About 40% of the characters in Literotica stories are about 14 years old, if we go by the rest of the description and ignore the ritualistic "it was two days after my sis's 18th birthday" stuck near the top.


Seriously, I quite agree there should be no under-age sex. Everyone should be over 16.