Shouldn't volunteer editors know how to write?

Not necessarily. There are some readers who will comment that a writer needs an editor no matter how well the story was edited.

Or, a writer will make additions to his/her story after getting it back from the editor, and then submit it, believing that he/she made the story even better, that no more editing is needed.

Also, editors can't catch everything and writers sometimes don't accept good editing changes in Track Changes.

Finally, there are some stories that need more help than an editor can give. Maybe the author needs to revise the story. Editors can only do so much.

Some editors give an author what they paid for on Lit, and some give more. It really depends on the editor and the author working together to make the story better.

No sane person can argue with those facts. However, call it bad luck, the luck of the draw, whatever. But I've had more than my share of volunteer editors that didn't know what they were doing.

A few examples of some of the volunteer editors I've tried working with.

One wanted me to change the name of the female in my story because it was the same as his ex-wife. Another took all the periods out, said they broke up the flow, and changed them to commas (and God as my witness, I'm not making any of these up) Then there was the guy who wanted each and every paragraph modified to suit his needs and or wants. It soon became apparent he was writing his own story by proxy.

I've kept a list of usernames that I've contacted in the past. I have about seventy or so. I'd say, as most of you already know, the biggest problem is non-response. I can't count the times I've contacted a volunteer editor and heard nothing, or sent the file and waited and heard nothing. Again, I fully understand the concept of volunteer, but sometimes I wonder.

Should LIT have some sort of "Angie's list" for volunteer editors?
 
No sane person can argue with those facts. However, call it bad luck, the luck of the draw, whatever. But I've had more than my share of volunteer editors that didn't know what they were doing.

A few examples of some of the volunteer editors I've tried working with.

One wanted me to change the name of the female in my story because it was the same as his ex-wife. Another took all the periods out, said they broke up the flow, and changed them to commas (and God as my witness, I'm not making any of these up) Then there was the guy who wanted each and every paragraph modified to suit his needs and or wants. It soon became apparent he was writing his own story by proxy.

I've kept a list of usernames that I've contacted in the past. I have about seventy or so. I'd say, as most of you already know, the biggest problem is non-response. I can't count the times I've contacted a volunteer editor and heard nothing, or sent the file and waited and heard nothing. Again, I fully understand the concept of volunteer, but sometimes I wonder.

Should LIT have some sort of "Angie's list" for volunteer editors?

RW, I don't doubt what you're saying. I think it's been established that it's hard to find a good editor and/or one that is a good match. I realize how frustrating it must be.

I have to say, though, that as a volunteer editor I've had an equally frustrating time working with Lit writers. I've probably worked with around 10 writers and talked to 10 others who were looking for an editor.

Out of these writers, five dropped into a black hole; my favorite is setting up a business and currently doesn't have the time to write; one decided I could edit for him at the last minute with editing no more than 5 errors per page when the pages all had more than 5 punctuation errors, not to mention multiple grammar issues or that he had just basically told me he couldn't stand me a few days previously; one writer wanted me to cyber with him; three writers' stories were so full of punctuation and grammar errors that I couldn't finish reading past the first page. One writer--my favorite--accepted all my editing. And he's one whose first story I read half way down the page and sent back to him, telling him I could tell he had writing experience but there was no way I could edit his story because of the shape it was in, that he needed to make revisions primarily for sentence structure. He revised it and sent it back and I couldn't believe the difference. If he disagreed with me, he would tell me. One time he even corrected me on the use of a subjunctive I was wrong about.

I could go on, but I'll end with one final issue that annoys me no end, and that is a writer submitting a story with basic punctuation and dialogue tag errors still in place after I corrected them in Track Changes. This is one reason why editors don't want to be credited.
 
Incompetence isn't limited to volunteer editors, one prominent LIT editor guru lards stories with awful errors. I was stunned when I saw them, and fled to Dwight Swain to confirm my impression. Yep. WHERE SELDOM IS HEARD A DISCOURAGING WORD AND THE SKIES ARE NOT CLOUDY ALL DAY.
 
I think everyone knows your high regard of editors, Jim, or anyone else for that matter.
 
Anytime you wanna brush the chip off your shoulder we can be friends.

Right. I igged you after you sent me the BUZZ OFF pm, and that was after you told me and about three others to FO on the AH thread. At least another Litster enjoyed my Bad Romance Women's Suffrage parody vid I posted.

I don't think you've ever mentioned it, but have you ever worked with an editor? Your Rose story (chapter one that I voted 5 for) is the type of story I would enjoy editing, and I'm not volunteering, just making a statement. Besides, after Buzz Off, I won't be reading your stories, but I'm still curious. Sounds like you may have some bad editing experiences like a lot of other writers.
 
Right. I igged you after you sent me the BUZZ OFF pm, and that was after you told me and about three others to FO on the AH thread. At least another Litster enjoyed my Bad Romance Women's Suffrage parody vid I posted.

I don't think you've ever mentioned it, but have you ever worked with an editor? Your Rose story (chapter one that I voted 5 for) is the type of story I would enjoy editing, and I'm not volunteering, just making a statement. Besides, after Buzz Off, I won't be reading your stories, but I'm still curious. Sounds like you may have some bad editing experiences like a lot of other writers.

Most of the people in this world are fulla shit & fulla themselves. Editors top the list. My life is expert free, and I like it that way. There was a time when I was as naĂŻve and eager to please as you could want, and most of the advice I accepted was nonsense. I devoutly wish there was some Writing Yoda out there but I've never met one. So I go it alone.

I turned OFF voting and anonymous comments, to steal the joy from my friends and abusive readers. If you or others don't wanna read my stuff I'm OK with it cuz I rarely read what others post, because its so awful.
 
Most of the people in this world are fulla shit & fulla themselves. Editors top the list. My life is expert free, and I like it that way. There was a time when I was as naĂŻve and eager to please as you could want, and most of the advice I accepted was nonsense. I devoutly wish there was some Writing Yoda out there but I've never met one. So I go it alone.

I turned OFF voting and anonymous comments, to steal the joy from my friends and abusive readers. If you or others don't wanna read my stuff I'm OK with it cuz I rarely read what others post, because its so awful.

ok, so you haven't worked with an editor. Thanks for answering my question. I don't know about your rarely reading comments to your stories though. You sure seemed to be enjoying annoying the readers to both Chapter 1 and 2 of Rose in the comment section. I would have voted on Chapter 2, but it didn't make sense to vote, or even vote a low score, when the main issue, to me, was Chapter 2 went a 360 from Chapter 1. There seemed to be a lot of good story ideas in Chapter 2. I had hoped 2 would continue were 1 left off. Anyway, good luck with the series.
 
ok, so you haven't worked with an editor. Thanks for answering my question. I don't know about your rarely reading comments to your stories though. You sure seemed to be enjoying annoying the readers to both Chapter 1 and 2 of Rose in the comment section. I would have voted on Chapter 2, but it didn't make sense to vote, or even vote a low score, when the main issue, to me, was Chapter 2 went a 360 from Chapter 1. There seemed to be a lot of good story ideas in Chapter 2. I had hoped 2 would continue were 1 left off. Anyway, good luck with the series.

I have worked with editors. You make assumptions and then run with the ball to the wrong goal-post. I have no idea of your editing skills but I do know you and I could never work together.

You have your ideas for how stories flow, and so do I. I do nothing LeCarre and Chandler didn't do many times. 3 is out and 4 is submitted. My readers are about to be annoyed more as voting is now turned off. They can read them or not and go fuck themselves.
 
I have worked with editors. You make assumptions and then run with the ball to the wrong goal-post. I have no idea of your editing skills but I do know you and I could never work together.

You have your ideas for how stories flow, and so do I. I do nothing LeCarre and Chandler didn't do many times. 3 is out and 4 is submitted. My readers are about to be annoyed more as voting is now turned off. They can read them or not and go fuck themselves.

I thought you said you hadn't worked with any editors. I don't believe we could work together either, so at lease we agree on something. :)
 
Should LIT have some sort of "Angie's list" for volunteer editors?

I think this forum can be used for that. Editors with good reasons or counterarguments can post here as easily as anyone complaining of contact with editors.
 
I got a real chuckle from a comment left on a story one time:

"...you could us an editor. I can help."

Oh yeah...great way to impress me by misspelling "use" in your offer.
 
I got a real chuckle from a comment left on a story one time:

"...you could us an editor. I can help."

Oh yeah...great way to impress me by misspelling "use" in your offer.

I've read posts with so many errors it scares me to think of that person "editing" anything. Their posts are a way for the author to see how well that person pays attention to detail.
 
There are editors and there are proofreaders. And for some of the publications for which I write there are fact checkers. (Boy, can they be tough.) But if you are a writer just getting started - or an established writer writing outside your usual genre - decide what it is that you need. Do you need someone to tidy up your spelling and grammar - basically an intelligent proofreader? Or do you need someone to help you make your story a better story? If it's the latter, ask to see some of their previous finished assignments.
 
It's not like you're going to get help from anyone. This place doesn't care that much or is organized enough to set things like that up. I've tried to contact their supposed "volunteer editors" but they never respond.

I think folks get a better response by posting here what they have and what they need done to it. Then they get the attention of editors who are active and who have a chance to bid on doing something that looks interesting to them.
 
I think folks get a better response by posting here what they have and what they need done to it. Then they get the attention of editors who are active and who have a chance to bid on doing something that looks interesting to them.

I've met some good writers through the threads, as well the editor's profile list. I've never had to bid on editing projects on Lit though. I guess it could be seen as bidding.
 
I've met some good writers through the threads, as well the editor's profile list. I've never had to bid on editing projects on Lit though. I guess it could be seen as bidding.

Making an offer to edit is a bid. It may be the only bid (stating what you'll do in response to what is requested), but it's still a bid.
 
Making an offer to edit is a bid. It may be the only bid (stating what you'll do in response to what is requested), but it's still a bid.

I hear what you're saying. I just have a hard time applying it to Lit. Maybe that's naive. I don't know. I do bid for paid projects off Lit though.
 
My two cents, for what they're worth.

I've written stories here, and I've edited some as well. I know I'm not the best writer here, and I also know I'm not the best editor. What I do know is that whether I'm writing or editing I always do my best on the project at hand.

When I write I don't normally use an editor or proofreader as I do have some training and experience in both capacities. I will say I'm not averse to having friends look at what I've written though to get their opinion, so I guess to a certain degree I do get my work edited/proofed.

As an editor I've worked with some very good authors, I've also worked with some very poor writers, and in some cases have had to back off of a project as it would be prohibitively difficult to fix the author's work. I've also had writers rant at me that I had no idea what I was talking about. Of course, it was their right to disagree with what I had to say, but they asked me for help and I thought I was giving them the help they asked for. Other writers were greatly appreciative of the help I gave them and I of course was glad that they liked my work. C'est la vie.

Writers and editors are certainly not on a level playing field here, there are good and bad on both sides of the fence and of course lots who are somewhere in the middle. I've been drawn into a story where I literally could not go to bed until I finished the story. "Amy's Smile" is a perfect example of a well written tale. I just about died when I found out that the author had stopped writing the story before it was finished (I've been guilty of that myself due to various reasons), but was ecstatic when I saw someone had written the conclusion for it. I can't even remember the number of stories I've read where I've barely gotten through, or even to the end of the first page before I've stopped reading due to the poor grammar, syntax, and/or plot line.

As I said at the beginning of my post, I'm not the best at either editing or writing, but for the most part people seem to like what I do, and as long as I enjoy what I do, and people keep reading, voting and commenting I will continue.

Just my take on things, and I'm sure someone will find a reason to slam me :)
Chiara23
 
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