Sick of Unrealistic Stories!

[Madame Manga]

As a female erotic writer, I'd like to say something about rape stories, or better, "ravishment fantasy". I used to hate them. Hate, hate, hate them! I couldn't read anything with the slightest hint of non-consent. It made me physically sick. This was coupled with a genuine fear of rape that crippled me in real life. I wrote erotica, yeah, but it was purged of anything of that kind.

Then out of the blue I started having those "ravishment fantasies" and writing stories I was ashamed to show around. I was disgusted at myself. How could I like that stuff? How could I be writing it? I looked online and discovered that other women liked this stuff too. Maybe I wasn't crazy, or if I was, I had company. So I wrote some more of that kind of thing and posted it, and got a good response. Something worked itself loose, and suddenly I could write with much more freedom and power than I had ever been able to do before.

Even better, because instead of hiding from those thoughts I took control of them and made them mine, I lost my fears. Both in a literary context and in real life. That's what it's all about, IMO. Suppressed fantasies eat at you and become even more powerful and corrosive in concealment. Expressed fantasies are YOURS--you own them, and you can use them consciously for any purpose.

Ravishment stories aren't about being abused. They are about women taking control of a fantasy of complete loss of control. There's tremendous erotic power in that, IMO. I understand people who can't stand stories like that, and I would never spring that stuff on them without warning. I've been there--though NOT in real life, I hasten to add. The response of a woman who has actually been raped or abused is obviously entirely up to her. Some survivors DO like non-consent--it's the taking control of the scene thing. Some survivors hate it just as much as I used to do.

Basically, because of that personal turn-around, I try very hard not to tell anyone what he or she should or shouldn't like. You can never know the genuine psychological reason for someone else's turn-ons, and often not even for your own.

MM

 

[Madame Manga]

[double post]

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Thank you, MM! That reinforces some points I was making, I hesitated to say that many women have rape fantasies (being a guy), but I can understand the fantasy of a situation where control (and therefore responsibility and blame) is lost, to be a combination of liberating (not my fault), flattering (desire for me could drive someone to this) and exciting (novelty, adrenaline, violence, etc.)

There are a number of examples of sanitized rape in the Literotica site. I consider my own story Incubus to fall into that category. It is based on a fantasy of a friend of mine. These fantasies are real and can be very satisfying as fantasies, but should not be taken as any kind of approval or justification for the real thing - or even any real kind of understanding or appreciation of the actual issues involved. Ever played cowboys and indians?

 

[JackDRiper]

Oh yeah! Well like I said I dont read other peoples post I just saw your first paragraph. Agreed!

 

[SexyChele]

Oh yeah! Well like I said I dont read other peoples post I just saw your first paragraph. Agreed!

You know, if you never read anyone else's posts, then why should we waste our time reading yours? Or is it just some sort of "My opinion is better than yours so I don't need to read it" sort of thing. Not judging, just confused as to why I should give any credence to your opinion or viewpoints.


Maybe that is my answer. I shouldn't.

 

[psiberzerker]

I agree tha there has to be some suspension of disbelief. I didn't read the story you mention where the victim orgasms repeatedly, but I've seen this kind of dreck before.
While it does tend to piss me off when victims start enjoying it, I do like it when it's properly explained. Granted, there are few instances where someone would get pleasure out of being raped, but that to me is what fiction is all about. Suspension of disbelief, making the impossible seem only improbable. The trick to that is actually making it believeable instead of trying, and failing all together.

 

[maggie2002]

But it is mostly fantasy. I think there is a danger of people being led astray here. You do not advocate something because you write about it or read about it, but this thread seems to have gone off at a tangent.

Rape is wrong! Child abuse is wrong! ... but no-one seems to be saying otherwise.

gabriel Lee

I agree with G.L. it is fantasy. In reality I would consider nonconsent rape. In fantasy land I might be smitten but shy and his forcing me allows me to show my wilder side i.e. D/s within written contract parameters He does as he pleases, she receives the pleasure.

Rape reality sick and never acceptable Fantasy land He is her own man or he arranges it and is there to keep her safe and she is taken without approval but given passion and pleasure and maybe a little allowable pain i.e. spanking etc. The limits are known the outcome foreordained and everyone a winner.

Incest. I repeat parameters set. I know a friend who regularly makes love to her dad twenty years older then her. He is alone and miserable without his dead wife she is the image of her mother. He gets drunk and mauldin and she comforts him. I don't find either of them wrong she is fortyfive he is almost sixtyfive.
Incest anyone not self supporting and able to end the situation is not acceptable.

 

[sweetnpetite]

personally the only cases of incest i've ever known about were all rape. if you can't see that aspect of it then your blind or stupid. you can just ignore reality and pretend that incest isn't a potentially damaging act in itself.

and rape is a nonconsentual sex act. it's not that big of a leap to connect the two. it is a valid argument. you may not agree with it, but it is valid.

Insest does happen consentually. If you can't see that you must be in denial or just ignorant. I know people who are married to second cousins. It happens. Also know step-children who marry. Sometimes this is a case where the "children" are grown and dating and when the divorced inlaws meet, they fall in love as well. Technically, insest. I have also seen plenty of cases of children being molested by parents and step-parents. I dont even lable that as insest, just sexual abuse and molestation. I guess tecnically that is incest too, but sooooo diferent from what we might just consider "icky" (ie, sister and brother playing doctor...) insest in many cases is abusive, but there are also many cases where it is not.

 

[gystex]

Re: NonConsent and Mind Control

(Mind Control and Non Consent)

I find it tough to tell the difference between the two... Mind control to me advocates no consent whatsoever it is rape of the highest sort and that catagory could go away and I wouldn't miss it.

I had a hard time reconciling the difference between the two myself. I find that I abhor non-consent or rape fics, but get turned on by the mind-control stuff. Obviously there's a difference in my mind, and it took me a while to discover what it is.

I can accept and even enjoy most of the Mind Control stories because they are impossible. They generally deal with the supernatural, like a genie in a lamp granting wishes, or a magic potion that drives women wild for sex, or (this seems popular) uses some mysterious technology to induce hypnosis in an unwitting victim. These are things that just don't happen in real life, and so it doesn't bother me. Besides, the characters in such stories generally enjoy the sex, even though it's often compulsory enjoyment.

Rape, on the other hand, does happen in real life all too often. It is a terrible crime second only to murder - worse, in a way, because a murder victim's troubles are over once the crime is complete, while rape victims often suffer for the rest of their lives. Saying that a woman might enjoy being raped is akin to saying that a man might like having his penis lacerated with a steak knife. Sure, there are some people who might get off on that, but they strike me as being in the extreme minority.

If someone wrote a mind-control story in which, for instance, someone took an innocent 18-year-old virgin and used real brainwashing techniques to transform her into a sex slave, I would hate it. It would become too real and the reality of such a thing is horrible. But as long as such stories are dealing with pure fantasy and the characters are getting laid by using their magic necklace or something, I can sit back and enjoy them.

The only kind of non-consent story I could remotely enjoy is one in which the characters were role-playing; for instance, a woman and man set up a situation in advance whereby he plays the part of an attacker and she the victim, but all just to explore a mutual fantasy. Of course, that's not really non-consent anymore.

While we're on the subject, you know what I can't figure out? Why is it that you can legally have sex with someone over the age of 16, but Literotica won't post a story with involved characters under the age of 18? It's like you can do it, but you can't write about it. Go figure.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I LOVE non-consent and mind control stories. And here's why. I used to be so repressed that i couldn't even enjoy sexual fantasies in the privacy of my own mind unless I was "forced" into it. When I first became sexually active, sex was something that I "let" happen, not something I "made" happen. 1. I couldn't admit what I liked or what I wanted. 2. I thought that was the way it was "supposed" to be. (The man persues, and convinces the woman, seduces or raveges whatever) Now, I'm not so repressed. But I enjoy being pinned and rough sex. Sometimes at the begining of a scene in a movie or show where the woman is "captured" and the man is about to force himself on her, I catch myself thinking "dont' fight it, enjoy it!" of course this is tv or hollywood so the "attacker" is always a major hottie. I dont want to be raped or drugged or "hypnotised" into doing something I don't want to do, the idea behind the fantasy is being forced or compelled to do something that you DO want to do, but don't have have the courage to be pro-active about. My girls always will enjoy being "taken" whether someone else deems it "unrealisic" or not. Because its my fantasy, I am the girl, and I enjoy it. (the fantasy) I don't know how to make it any simpler.

 

[ChemE_student]

WARNING: This is a long post. I won't be offended if you don't read it all.

I'm glad that people are taking the time to write about this topic and to advocate individual view points. It's important that we be able to discuss controversial issues without being attacked [too often] for our beliefs.

That said, what is missing from this thread is someone who has actually been raped. Living through the experience teaches you the difference between fantasy and reality and, in my case at least, has demonstrated why people can enjoy the fantasies without wanting to live them.

When I was in high school (and not of legal age), I went on a spring break cruise with the band. I didn't really have many friends on this particular trip, so I found myself making friends with the staff on the ship. The very short version of the story is that I was a virgin but had limited experience with sexuality, and one of the men on board was exceptionally sweet to me. I agreed to meet him alone after explicitly stating that I didn't want to have actual intercourse. Clearly, that's not what happened.

Now, this is neither the time nor place for a description of exactly what happened during and after, nor will I bore you with all the details of my emotional response. I will say that the rape itself was almost an out-of-body experience for me: my mind retreated inside my skull and told me over and over that if I just let him finish, everything would be ok.

All that said, I really enjoy non-consent stories (although any that cause actual injury to the protagonist tend to turn me off). I have been aroused by that kind of power struggle since before I knew what sex was. I won't go back and try to quote everyone on the thread that wrote something with which I agreed, but the part that spoke most to me said that these stories give the writers and the readers control over the situations. Also, this thought of being so desireable that a man could not stop himself from taking me is incredibly arousing. In my fantasies, I am in control in the long-run, because if I weren't so damn hot it never would have happened!

If you'd like to see an example of my fantasies, check out this story written for me by my beloved dr_mabeuse:
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=86449
It's a non-consent story, but it makes me very, very happy, probably because it's about me and what happens when I get caught dressing up (which is how I masturbate).

Here, my character may be forced into sex, but it makes her examine how she feels about herself and her sexuality. I know the argument on this thread is that it's unrealistic, but I honestly don't think anyone [sane] fantasizes about the kind of pain I experienced when I was raped. Even in more violent, 'realistic' rape stories, I doubt seriously that many people get off on the consequences for the poor girl after it's over. They enjoy the sex and the feeling of power that comes from bending another to their will. Fantasy is just that, and I completely understand the fantasy of wanting to control another human being completely (or wanting to be controlled by one). I say, let people get off on whatever they want, but encourage self-reflection about why those desires exist in the first place.

Thanks for letting me ramble.
ChemE

 

[Alex756]

What is and is not in the catagory

OK, let me start by saying I very recently put my first story in the non-consent area.

What it is definately not is a glorification of anything.

I was fully prepared for this story to be HATED, and lothed and to get all the horrible feed back of you are a sick sick person for writing this.

However, in general people have been rather ... well emotional about it, just not the normal emotions I try to bring out.

The non concent policy on here is something I haven't been able to find, I wasn't sure if my story would be allowed or if it wouldn't be, but my story made it up there.

While reading through some of the catagory to see what was 'normal' for the catagory ... it does seem very un-real.
I mean, how common is it for someone to atach themselves to their captor so they wouldn't run the moment they could.

But whoever (sorry I forgot who said but I totally agree with it) but whoever said this is a private site and whatever the owners want is whatever gets posted is soo right (but you can out your feet up on my furnature if yah want). And I am very greatful for this site existing and the definition of what is allowed seems very very broad, which I love.

--Alex756
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=177120

 

[hiddenself]

....

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: What is and is not in the catagory

OK, let me start by saying I very recently put my first story in the non-consent area.

What it is definately not is a glorification of anything.

I was fully prepared for this story to be HATED, and lothed and to get all the horrible feed back of you are a sick sick person for writing this.

However, in general people have been rather ... well emotional about it, just not the normal emotions I try to bring out.

The non concent policy on here is something I haven't been able to find, I wasn't sure if my story would be allowed or if it wouldn't be, but my story made it up there.

While reading through some of the catagory to see what was 'normal' for the catagory ... it does seem very un-real.
I mean, how common is it for someone to atach themselves to their captor so they wouldn't run the moment they could.

But whoever (sorry I forgot who said but I totally agree with it) but whoever said this is a private site and whatever the owners want is whatever gets posted is soo right (but you can out your feet up on my furnature if yah want). And I am very greatful for this site existing and the definition of what is allowed seems very very broad, which I love.

--Alex756
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=177120

from what some of the moderators have posted on this site, the policy is Lit publishes the "victim's" fantasy, not the rapists fantasy. I think there have been some exceptions made, but for the most part if you read over the stories you will find that this is true.
ps, check out my nonconsent, link below:

 

[sweetnpetite]

also id like to point out that there are 3 kinds of fantasies:

1 the kind you enjoy fantasising but don't really want to happen
(robbing a bank)

2 the kind you would enjoy if they happened, but your not really doing anything to make it happen (becoming a millionare)

3 the kind that you want to happen, and you do something to make it happen. (getting a good job)

sometimes we fantasize about repeating things we've done before- these fantasies can fit into any of the above category.

fantasy level 1 and 2 are pretty unrealistic, but we enjoy them. So of course, many of us write stories about them, and most of us enjoy them. Fantasy level 3 is also fun, but usually not as dramatic.

 

[SaltyGoodness]

Loss of control

Well, it seems like everyone has put their two cents in, so I might as well too...
I'm pretty sure the point of non-consent is that the stories are all "fantasies." While I do enjoy fantasy rape, but in erotica and in RL, the thought of actually being raped makes me sick to my stomach.
Non-consent stories are all about the fantasy aspect of things. The loss of control, the rush of power. To certain degrees, these things turn lots of people on. I find it very close minded to say that somebody is wrong for having a fantasy. We can't control what our fantasies are, just what we do about them. Having outlets like erotica gives people something to pour that erotic energy into that isn't destructive.
I know several people who are interested in non-consent, on both sides of the whip, and absolutely none of them would ever dream of raping or putting themselves in a situation where they could be raped in RL.
I don't see how fantasizing about it is any different than fantasizing about someone ordering you to be at his beck and call. It's all about the power.

 

[SaltyGoodness]

Loss of control

Well, it seems like everyone has put their two cents in, so I might as well too...
I'm pretty sure the point of non-consent is that the stories are all "fantasies." While I do enjoy fantasy rape, but in erotica and in RL, the thought of actually being raped makes me sick to my stomach.
Non-consent stories are all about the fantasy aspect of things. The loss of control, the rush of power. To certain degrees, these things turn lots of people on. I find it very close minded to say that somebody is wrong for having a fantasy. We can't control what our fantasies are, just what we do about them. Having outlets like erotica gives people something to pour that erotic energy into that isn't destructive.
I know several people who are interested in non-consent, on both sides of the whip, and absolutely none of them would ever dream of raping or putting themselves in a situation where they could be raped in RL.
I don't see how fantasizing about it is any different than fantasizing about someone ordering you to be at his beck and call. It's all about the power.

 

[hornydevil69]

Hi, just wanted to state that just because most of the incest cases you have heard about have been with minors doesn't mean diddly. You said yourself you work with them so instantly your group is tainted. Secondly, if an incestuous couple consented to sex, enjoyed it, and either decided to stop, or continue, do you think they'd broadcast it? You have already seen the scorn and ridicule it has gotten in this one thread alone full of supposedly open minded people talking about FICTION. Hell people are grouping it in with child molestation and rape, I wouldn't admit it either for fear of this

"In real life, rape, incest and child molestation is sick and disgusting and any perpetrator of these acts should be drawn, quatered and shot to pieces, not necessarily in that order."

the difference is this...rape = non consent and is usually violent and painful to the victim...child molestation = usually non consent, takes advantage of an impressionable youth, scarring and can ruin the childs life forever....incest = 2 consenting adults who happen to be related, if the incest happens to be non consent or with a minor it is no longer incest as much as it is rape or molestation.

Now as far as the non consent goes, that is mostly all my wife reads here (and the bi male stories, she has this thing about seeing a man give another man head or get nailed in the ass. hinted she wants me to do it, told her I will if I get to watch her muff dive =oP ). I was raised to respect women, never hurt them, etc... may wife asks me to pretend to rape her and the johnson goes limp, much to her dismay. Although it is kind of absurd asking your husband of 10 years who you know and love to rape you because as the saying goes, you can't rape the willing. I think the main thing SHE likes with the non consent is not being in control. She likes me to hold her hands down, or grab a fistfull of hair when I'm behind her...but I digress.

And as far as EVERYONE thinking incest is disgusting and wrong, my first story, involving a man, his wife, and his mother in law, all over 25, got over 26000 hits the first week and 1 bad feedback from an anon which looked like your basic form response (turned anon feedback off) so i disregarded it. So apparently there are indeed people out there that enjoy incestuous stories.

 

[ChemE_student]

Got to agree with you there. Incest may not be my thing, but as long as they both consent, I think it is in a COMPLETELY different category from rape/non-consent. I've already put in my commentary on those.

 

[jfinn]

It sounds like everyone here agrees that rape for pleasure is not something they'd consider writing. A good nonconsent fantasy, sure, but realistically portrayed rape where the victim has never even remotely consented, ugh. But you know what I think is even worse? The story where the character is raped and yet seems to not be affected by it or even decides that since they got off, it really wasn't a bad thing after all.

I have written about rape. I wrote one into a series I have. The series is about gay men and the rape is male/male. A version of a date rape with torture. While it isn't the focus of the story, it is a pivotal episode that I felt was necessary. I didn't come to that decision easily and I chose to not be very descriptive nor did I show any of the rapists reactions. I chose to handle it that way as much to spare myself writing it as I did to spare my readers. I did however make the victims feelings as vivid as possible and in that way you could say I was graphic.

What I didn't know, had never contemplated would be the reaction I got when I posted it. See, up until then the story had been a romance with a little angst, a little humor and a lot of unrequited love. Nobody expected the rape scene and to say they were shocked is an understatement. One man wrote and said that he felt that not only had I raped my main character, but my fans as well.

I'd known there was going to be some backlash, but I'd had no idea how heavy it was going to be. I have to admit I almost quit writing over it, but there were some writers and some others that I really respect who convinced me to keep on going at least until I finished the arc. They said to wait and see what people think once they found out where I was going.

Where I was going, was into the realities of how rape can change everything. I did a lot of research on it and one of the things I found out was one of the most devastating things for a man who is raped is if he climax's. Now this made sense to me, so I used it as the underlying reason for my character's breakdown after the attack. That's when I got my second surprise.

I got dozens and dozens of letters from men who had been raped or from the people who were closest to them. All of them, every single one, mentioned that whole "enjoyment" issue had been for them as real victims, the most difficult hurdle to get over. It can't be rape if you enjoyed it. was the feeling they'd had to struggle to overcome. Some hadn't, a few told me until my story they thought they were the only ones who'd ever felt that way and had thought it made them a freak.

The reason I'm telling about this is because this experience taught me something. What we write matters. It affects people. Even porn, even on the net. Hell maybe especially on the net. If I was published in print, I'd never have the reader base I do now. Or if I did I'd be some publisher's wet dream come true (don't I wish).

But the thing is if we write about something like rape we need to remember that there are people out there who have experienced the real thing and they don't need to see it romanticized or made into some "Oh well at least I got off." kind of scene. I've read a lot of those kinds of stories and I'll tell you that after hearing from real victims I can barely stand the thought of them anymore.

Basically I'm a pretty noncontroversial writer. My stories are mainly vanilla and romantic. I don't know if I'll ever tackle another story with extreme sexual topics, but if I do, I know that I won't do so without remembering that their are people out there who have been deeply hurt by whatever that issue is and I'll do my best not to trivialize it.

Jayne

 

[sweetnpetite]

But you know what I think is even worse? The story where the character is raped and yet seems to not be affected by it or even decides that since they got off, it really wasn't a bad thing after all.

I have written about rape. I wrote one into a series I have. The series is about gay men and the rape is male/male. A version of a date rape with torture

Where I was going, was into the realities of how rape can change everything. I did a lot of research on it and one of the things I found out was one of the most devastating things for a man who is raped is if he climax's. Now this made sense to me, so I used it as the underlying reason for my character's breakdown after the attack. That's when I got my second surprise.

I got dozens and dozens of letters from men who had been raped or from the people who were closest to them. All of them, every single one, mentioned that whole "enjoyment" issue had been for them as real victims, the most difficult hurdle to get over. It can't be rape if you enjoyed it. was the feeling they'd had to struggle to overcome. Some hadn't, a few told me until my story they thought they were the only ones who'd ever felt that way and had thought it made them a freak.


Jayne

I'm interested to know if your research also included women who where raped, and if they had the same experience of dealing with "enjoyment" on some level as well. I think I heard something about this in regards to female sexual abuse victims. If they have cases, obviously this hurts there case, and makes others or themselves think that there the one to blame. Anyway I was just wondering if your research also included women or men only since that was what your story was about.

 

[jfinn]

Remember I'm no expert

I'm interested to know if your research also included women who where raped, and if they had the same experience of dealing with "enjoyment" on some level as well. I think I heard something about this in regards to female sexual abuse victims. If they have cases, obviously this hurts there case, and makes others or themselves think that there the one to blame. Anyway I was just wondering if your research also included women or men only since that was what your story was about.

Yup, I did read a fair amount about female victims as well; for one thing there's just so much more info out there on women being raped and even when you find a site that discusses male rape it's generally a place about women with a small section on men. One of the few times when women get more attention from the medical profession then men though not exactly flattering.

Anyway, women do sometimes climax during rape. Not as often as men, but then we have no prostrate gland sitting in the perfect spot for stimulation like a guy does. A rapist can almost accidently make a man come from the stimulation, but he would actually have to physically stimulate a woman's clitoris to make her climax and they don't usually bother. Also there's something about male and female pleasure centers that are different (like we didn't already know this) and a woman is less likely to respond even to physical stimulous.

The thing is, regardless of whether the victim is male or female, if the rapist really works at it, he can almost always make his victim climax. And some of them do just that. It's part of their modus operendi, to have that kind of control over their victim. They'll even taunt the victim with it afterwards. See I knew you wanted it. I think this is especially common in date rape because the rapist needs this reaction to absolve himself. I would also think that this is what you've heard about it. It's the William Kennedy Smith thing. And yes, if used like that in court, it's going to obviously hurt the defense. Makes me sick.

Ultimately though, (and I'm sermonizing, but I'm very passionate about this topic) people really need to understand, this is not a sexual issue, it's a power issue. No matter how the victim physically responds, the fact is they aren't there willingly. No means no, rape is rape, and in these case orgasms are nothing more than biological imperatives that do more harm than good.

Jayne

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Remember I'm no expert

Ultimately though, (and I'm sermonizing, but I'm very passionate about this topic) people really need to understand, this is not a sexual issue, it's a power issue. No matter how the victim physically responds, the fact is they aren't there willingly. No means no, rape is rape, and in these case orgasms are nothing more than biological imperatives that do more harm than good.

Jayne

I think that its about sex AND power. But I agree that its still rape, no matter the sexual response of the victim and its the asault that matters and the intentions of the attacker. (Not to give pleasure, but to take, to steal something not given willingly)

as an aside, many women do climax without having there clitoris stimulated.

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Originally posted by GorgeousStud
I like to read the non consent stories but in almost every story the victim in question starts enjoying the sex. Have you ever seen rape victim that enjoys it? sure this is fantasy but at least make it realistic.

The whole point here is about the difference between the fantasy of rape and the reality of rape. The reality of rape is expected to be unacceptable, but the fantasy of rape must be accepted or it is not a good fantasy. Fantasy implicitly requires enjoyment at some level, since it is something we create for ourselves it must satisfy us in some way. It has never been an obligation of reality to satisfy anyone.

We are actually looking at two entirely different things here and the analysis/discussion of one probably does not tell us much about the other. It does, however, tell us quite a bit about ourselves - and that is always interesting.

 

[InkurablRomantk]

Having manned a suicide Hotline when I was still in high school in the 1960's, I have been too well aware for years about the realities of both incest and rape. But, those are the realities. I am not incestuously involved, nor could I ever be, with anyone, as in reality it goes so far against my grain. Yet, in fantasies, in erotic reveries, I find incest very erotic. Could I ever picture doing to my mother, or my own sisters, or my wife to our son or others in my family involved in such a way? Of course, not. But maybe, to some, what makes something such an erotic fantasy is just that--it is verboten, something we would not dare do in reality.

I have, however, role played "rape" with women who asked me to do that---it is not the first role playing scene onm y agenda by any sense of the imagination. I also never use my strength to hurt someone against their will. Even in the reaql life D/s relationships I had at certain points of my (mostly pre-marital life), I have known the difference between loving discipline and sadistic abuse.

I have worked with law enforcement officials and AOL to actually capture a lesbian child molester, whose 10 year old asked her how a French kiss feels, and felt it was better to show her than to tell her, and then put pictures of it across the net.

If, as adults with prurient values, we can not sift out the revery fromt he reality, we do not belong at sites like Literotica, because that can fuel psychoses that only produce more rapists, etc. But, most of us are decent people who simply want to exercise our ability to read, to write, and to react sensually and sexually to FICTION. I am not going to stop reading sci-fi merely because, to the best of my knowledge, I have never mad love to a Martian orowned a Tribble, nor will I stop reacting to incestuous erotica merely because I would never do that in real-life.