SMACK--a concept, a gathering. Welcome.

[Kajira Callista]

I had a cloth doll when I was a kid --- I was 4. I really didn't like this doll --- she had a pale orange gingham dress and brown yarn hair and a freakin' bonnet. I suppose somebody bought her for me because I also had brown hair that I liked to wear in two braids.

Anyway, I hated that doll because she wasn't a Barbie. She was a little girl doll and she just seemed so prim and simpery. Like she'd tattle or whine if she got her dress dirty and didn't want to play anything but stupid girl games like tea-party where everybody's nice and think's Sunday school is the greatest.

The only time I ever played with her was when I realized that shaking her was very satisfying. I don't recall much but the "bad guys" (for which I always supplied the voice) were some kind of criminal gang who would threaten her and rough her up. Somehow they were just more likable than her since she was such a damn goody-goody. I wasn't the actual badguy but I played him in the way that you have to play the bitchy Barbie who steals the good Barbie's boyfriend since there's nobody else around to play it like you want them to.

So, anyway, I used to get really excited threatening and shaking her until one day I ripped her arm off and then I hid her in the bottom of my closet so my mother wouldn't find out.


There, now Sig isn't the only person who'll be sweating this later wondering if she's suffering from terminal overshare.

-B

Ok i'll divulge a little more. GI Joe used to force barbie into the barbie camper (no laughing even though i am right now) and take her to the woods..make her strip and tie her to stuff and make her do naughty things and do lots of naughty cruel things to barbie. She used to cry but liked it (im guessing i asumed she liked it because i liked it) when he would do these things or tie her and leave her while he ate lunch etc.....anyway, im thinking ya all get the picture.

 

[Pure]

so what is the appeal of cruelty?
why is the thought of it happening to oneself exciting?
how and when (if so) did you make the transition from seeing it, to doing or undergoing it in real life?

i remember reading--probably as a teen-- of a very nasty testicle crushing (amounting to destruction) carried out, with some nutcracker-type gadget, on prisoners in a Latin American country; i wonder why that led me to try undergoing it decades later? (not to the extent of permanent damage as in the original scene).

 

[bridgeburner]

Kaj,

Lord, yes! I can't tell you how many times my Barbie's were sexually assaulted and knocked around and tied up. Too bad we weren't neighbors as kids!

I don't remember my Barbies actually liking the treatment --- their habitual response was to scream and cry and just suffer, but it certainly pleased me.

Of course, they generally got "rescued" by my Luke's alter ego ---- I only had one boy doll, a Barbie Sized Luke Skywalker ---- who was still dominant but somehow that was fine since they liked him.


-B

 

[Kajira Callista]

Kaj,

Lord, yes! I can't tell you how many times my Barbie's were sexually assaulted and knocked around and tied up. Too bad we weren't neighbors as kids!

I don't remember my Barbies actually liking the treatment --- their habitual response was to scream and cry and just suffer, but it certainly pleased me.

Of course, they generally got "rescued" by my Luke's alter ego ---- I only had one boy doll, a Barbie Sized Luke Skywalker ---- who was still dominant but somehow that was fine since they liked him.


-B

WOW! I feel so much better now!

 

[sigsauerprinces]

so what is the appeal of cruelty?


why is the thought of it happening to oneself exciting?

thats the 65,000 dollar question, isnt it?

i dont know if i can really explain why it appeals to me. but it does, immensely. to feel someones power over me? to be made to feel small and helpless. to feel that my very life, even, is in someone else's hands...it appeals to me even in a non sexual way-i mean yes it turns me on and gets me off but its more than that. i can have a scene with no sexual activity whatsoever and feel very satisfied afterwards. ungergoing cruelty makes me feel alive...and quite often it makes me feel free. thats the best i can explain it realy-i know i havent really explained the "why" but i feel like thats kind of unexplainable. its like asking why you love someone. you could say "i love him because hes funny, and kind, and sweet, and smart, and sexy", but you could say that about lots of ppl, and you dont love lots of ppl, you (most ppl anyways) only love one person at a time. but to say exactly why you love them-its impossible.

 

[bridgeburner]

so what is the appeal of cruelty?

Honestly, I don't know. I think it's just one of those hard-wired things. I don't personally want to make someone suffer unless they've wronged me, but I'm almost exclusively drawn to it in fantasy. They aren't ravishment fantasies, but rape - usually gang rape.

why is the thought of it happening to oneself exciting?

Okay, just for the record this is the fourth time I'm trying to put something coherent in this space. Let's see if I can manage it. Personally I don't like to be treated badly. It makes me feel shitty. Being treated cruelly is not exciting in and of itself to me. I have spent many an hour fantasizing about revenge, however. Whether this involved actual happenings or outrageous scenarios I fabricated myself, the payoff for me is in the vengeance and the more suffering involved before-hand the better the payoff.

I'm not prone to imagining myself breaking under torture or crying and snotting and blubberin. I only appreciate that when I'm watching or reading. For myself, I find it undignified at best and perhaps terminally embarassing at worst. I aspire to stoicism in situations where someone is determined to "get" me. It's a way of stealing power and unless one has the physical or psychic capacity to truly obliterate one's opponent it's also the only way to win ----- nobody who's really out to get you is moved to so much as sigh by the sight of your suffering, but if they can't get to you it eventually either bores them to continue or really freaks them out.

Hmm.....maybe it's all the repressed rage. I haven't hauled off and attempted to knock the crap out of anyone since I was about 12 although there have been some near things. Unfortunately, when I get really pissed off, I have a tremendous urge to inflict physical harm so I have to stifle it --- which is incredibly frustrating and makes me cry which just pisses me off even more ---- I'm not crying because I'm hurt, I'm crying so I don't kill someone. It's the only acceptable way to bleed the tension off. Of course, as I mentioned before, the best thing to do is to block those feelings entirely from being shown and then go kick the crap out of some inanimate object later on.

According to The Armchair Psychologist, the women in my fantasies might represent any number of things. Some part of myself that I hate. Some part of myself that I wish got more attention. A stand-in for those I want to harm. Something to do with my mother. blah blah blah. None of those explanations really resonates with me. Maybe I'm in denial. I don't think so, but it's possible. All I really know is that the image of a woman overpowered and sexually assaulted gets me hot.

how and when (if so) did you make the transition from seeing it, to doing or undergoing it in real life?

I haven't --- not physically at any rate. Certainly it's possible to encourage a dominant physical response in many men, but that's still a vanilla trick rather than any kind of formal acknowledgement of Top or bottom roles. Generally what I end up with are men who want me to take the reins and that just frustrates the crap out of me.

-B

 

[bridgeburner]

to be made to feel small and helpless.

See, this is my worst fucking nightmare. I hate it. It makes me physically ill and enrages me ---- but only if I'm being laughed at or belittled.

I'm not sure if I can describe the difference, but the idea of someone wanting to own me rather than crush me makes me giddy.


-B

 

[sigsauerprinces]

See, this is my worst fucking nightmare. I hate it. It makes me physically ill and enrages me ---- but only if I'm being laughed at or belittled.

I'm not sure if I can describe the difference, but the idea of someone wanting to own me rather than crush me makes me giddy.


-B

oh im the same-i cant stand the idea of someone laughing at me..or being called stupid, ugly, fat...thats not the kind of small and helpless that i mean. even when im feeling utterly small and helpless at his feet, i still feel valued and loved-maybe even especially at those times. and yes, being owned makes me giddy and happy too ive never felt like he wanted to crush me...more like i was his plaything...and that he could do ANYthing he fucking wanted to to me. i love that feeling, of being at his mercy. my, its getting warm in here. *fans self*.

 

[bridgeburner]

thats not the kind of small and helpless that i mean. even when im feeling utterly small and helpless at his feet, i still feel valued and loved-maybe even especially at those times

It's cherishing. Yes.


Of course, that's not cruel, but, as I said, I don't like for people to be cruel to me. I like to watch them be cruel to anonymous women.

I like the Rambo movies too. Righteous vengeance gives me a buzz.


-B

 

[Pure]

bb: Of course, that's not cruel, but, as I said, I don't like for people to be cruel to me. I like to watch them be cruel to anonymous women.

I like the Rambo movies too. Righteous vengeance gives me a buzz.

"First Blood" is a guilty pleasure of mine. Nowadays esp. since Rambo takes on the National Guard. I love the line when the Guard commander says to Crenna, because there are 60 armed guardmen, "Are you afraid for your boy? [Rambo]" Answer: "I'm afraid for your guardsmen!"

Well, you're perplexing, but here is my lay analysis for the two cents it's worth; Either you're rather Sadeian and have quite a strong urge to inflict cruelty (and a lesser urge to undergo it). Which you don't let us in on, though a couple hints are dropped.

OR, you're into suffering cruelty a lot, but want it at a distance. Safe. When the anonymous woman is cruelly treated--according to this idea-- you're getting of (safely) on imagining being her.

What's still a mystery is why a gang rape--e.g., of sweet Barbie--has any erotic 'kick' at all. Is it a link of sex and self destruction?

 

[Pure]

SSP said,
//even when im feeling utterly small and helpless at his feet, i still feel valued and loved-maybe even especially at those times. and yes, being owned makes me giddy and happy too //

i think this is an 'old' part of everyone's psyche, longing to be protected as in the womb or in mother's (father's?) arms.

the interesting thing is that yours is the signature with the fancy German sigsauer pistol, pointing to the classic link of helplessness and rage. ... just my two bit analysis.

J.

 

[bridgeburner]

Either you're rather Sadeian and have quite a strong urge to inflict cruelty (and a lesser urge to undergo it). Which you don't let us in on, though a couple hints are dropped.

No, I absolutely do not want to inflict cruelty. In fact I'm so against it that I have a tendency to let people abuse me just in giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Inflicting violence, yes. I have a great desire to inflict violence and mayhem but ONLY on the deserving. Cruelty, to my mind, is inflicting undeserved torment.

I don't like bullies.

OR, you're into suffering cruelty a lot, but want it at a distance. Safe. When the anonymous woman is cruelly treated--according to this idea-- you're getting of (safely) on imagining being her.

I'm not into suffering, but I'm certainly familiar with it. For lack of a better explanation I know how to do it, but I'm never in the POV of the victim in my fantasies. In fact, the minute I do identify with her I get squicked.

It's one of the reasons I like Richard Laymon's books so much. I can like his heroines and root for them, but at the same time I can read about them being raped and molested and it still gets me hot.

What's still a mystery is why a gang rape--e.g., of sweet Barbie--has any erotic 'kick' at all. Is it a link of sex and self destruction?

Well, first off, it's sex and sex is arousing. Secondly, it's violent, and violence is arousing. There are any number of other reasons for various people but the first two are pretty lizard-brain. The urge to fuck and the urge to conquer or be so highly desired that someone wants to conquer you.



-B

 

[bridgeburner]

Sig,

In case I haven't mentioned it before I love your avatars. Sexy little toons. Divine!


-B

 

[Pure]

bb said: //No, I absolutely do not want to inflict cruelty. In fact I'm so against it that I have a tendency to let people abuse me just in giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Inflicting violence, yes. I have a great desire to inflict violence and mayhem but ONLY on the deserving. Cruelty, to my mind, is inflicting undeserved torment.//

I'm a little confused, though I get the idea. If you were with a partner who has a taste for (or weird obsession with) having pins shoved through certain areas, or being beaten, would that be cruelty or violence or neither or both?

I guess there is 'cruel and unusual punishment', in the BR,which implies undeserved, I suppose.

OTOH, I've always thought of cruelty as infliction of pain or suffering--- thus much violence is cruel**, unless it's just a kid hitting you, or you have a protective helmet on, etc.

Question then: when we're talking of the eroticizing of cruelty, which sense do we mean? do we simply mean (effective) violence (i.e., it hurts)?

**If it's serious and intentionally inflicted.

 

[bridgeburner]

If you were with a partner who has a taste for (or weird obsession with) having pins shoved through certain areas, or being beaten, would that be cruelty or violence or neither or both?

I suppose technically it's both although in my personal lexicon it's not even remotely cruel. I don't want to get bogged down in semantics here but that doesn't fall under my personal definition of cruel since my partner wants it. It doesn't trip my trigger to inflict such, but I'd certainly try to comply with as much enthusiasm as possible since my partner asked for it.

OTOH, I've always thought of cruelty as infliction of pain or suffering--- thus much violence is cruel**

Cruel, for me, carries the connotation of being over the top, unjust, more than is warranted. It's not just pain or abuse but excessive pain or abuse. Some violence IS cruel, but some isn't. Violence is morally neutral. Cruel violence is morally dark.

when we're talking of the eroticizing of cruelty, which sense do we mean? do we simply mean (effective) violence (i.e., it hurts)?

I don't think we all mean the same thing. That would be like saying that all men who like tits like exactly the same kind.


-B

 

[Quint]

I don't think we all mean the same thing. That would be like saying that all men who like tits like exactly the same kind.


-B

Or like saying that all men who like tits like them for the same reason. Some people like them because they're soft, or because they look pretty, or because they feel nice wrapped around a cock. I don't think all "I want violence" thoughts come from the same source.

Violence is morally neutral. Cruel violence is morally dark.

I very much like and agree with this diagnosis. The terms carry the same connotations in my mind. As for cruelty...huh. A lot of the time, I get a HELL of a lot more than I deserve, which is what separates sadism from punishment in my eyes. But I still think I fall under bb's curtain of "violence" because to a degree, I do want what I get. Maybe we're substituting "cruelty" for "abuse" now; that's kind of what it feels like to me.

Want to write more, but tacos must be made.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Sadism

I never really think about that word, but I had a couple of times this weekend that make me think I might be a sadist.

Time when causing pain and suffering...hard pinching on a thoroughly belted set of ass cheeks on the day after...or trapping a deep throating head in order to ejaculate at the precise maximum gag point...made me burst into a swell of laughter that comes all too infrequently to me, these days. Deep, unfeigned laughter from a real place. Bubbling joy.

It's a nasty, dirty rotten business.

 

[Pure]

hey, someone's gotta do it.
J.

 

[Netzach]

I like the violence/cruelty dichotomy. Sadism clocks in at either point, in my view. You don't have to gouge out an eye, a well placed smack followed by the appropriate rush is pretty much the litmus test for Sadism.

 

[rosco rathbone]

, a well placed smack followed by the appropriate rush is pretty much the litmus test for Sadism.

I got it!!!

Someone call the docta!

 

[Pure]

Here's a case--possibly, of cruelty related to orgasm.

From elevator girl, ch 5 by perdita, a skilled writer here at literotica
http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=94629

I tried to keep my aching clit in check but his tongue and lips kept ahead of me. I cried and screamed beneath the wet taste of the silk and knew he was going to take me to the very edge of a monumental precipice. I felt the orgasm—I cannot call it mine—near its peak, wanted painfully to slip off the edge, felt the very angle of it, screamed in my throat as if it had the power to release me. I began laughing hysterically, panting, laughing, trying to let go. Then I felt it, knew I was going to come.

He stopped at that very instant and pinched an inner thigh as if his fingers were lobster claws. I felt like an abused mermaid on a deserted beach. I screamed and screamed in my head, rolling it from side to side. It felt a timeless hell.

How does it rate as cruelty? sadism?

J.

 

[Netzach]

extremely cruel, not especially sadistic, in my book.

The intent is evil, the means is still an overabundance of pleasureable sensation.

 

[Quint]

Cruelty is also in the eye of the beholder. I think it loses some meaning--or is at least harder to achieve--for someone who is wired that way. The person in the example is not, therefore actions that would bore me (or be part of my balanced breakfast) are abhorrent and almost unbearable to her. Much like what bb said above, I find myself drawn to the story because the character does NOT want what she receives, yet I would feel far too much sympathy to desire to witness such an event in person. Leave the pain for the painsluts, is my more rational, human opinion. The rest makes good fantasy.

 

[Pure]

N said, 'extreme cruelty.' (in aborting another's orgasm)

I wonder. It's in all the literotic stories that it drives one insane not to come, but ... really?

Have you never been interrupted? A phone? The neighbor or Mom walks in?

Did it make you go bananas (crazy)?

The only way I see it is if the person is brought to the edge, say several times a day for several days, that's getting tough (cruel).

 

[Netzach]

You can't tell me this is the same as your Mom calling, are you kidding me?