So my wife wants to be a Sub

[steve_dallas]

"She won"??

I don't like to hear that at all.

Hey cut me some slack! I'm working on it.

 

[steve_dallas]

There's a lot I could say about this, but let's just take one small example.


Your wife's been giving you sass all evening, and you want to fuck her? Then take the book, hurl it across the room, flip her over, pin her down, and do just that.

We do that often enough. After the failed thrashing in the living room, I wanted to see if she would simply submit in bed because I told her to. It wasn't really an animal lust moment.

 

[JMohegan]

We do that often enough. After the failed thrashing in the living room, I wanted to see if she would simply submit in bed because I told her to. It wasn't really an animal lust moment.

She's never done that before? Never sucked your cock, bent over the dining room table, or done anything else sexually, because you told her to?

 

[where]

Hey cut me some slack! I'm working on it.

Rosco has quite specific views about what a woman can and cannot say

She's never done that before? Never sucked your cock, bent over the dining room table, or done anything else sexually, because you told her to?

ummmm I seldom do as I'm told either.... It's not ~that~ unusual.

 

[Netzach]

There's a lot I could say about this, but let's just take one small example.

I haven't read any of the books your wife finds so hot, so I've got no idea how to role play those characters. But you mention that she gives you grief for not being rough enough, so I'll focus on that.

There's really no part of raw animal lust that has anything to do with "please finish your chapter."

Your wife's been giving you sass all evening, and you want to fuck her? Then take the book, hurl it across the room, flip her over, pin her down, and do just that.

Reading while being done is something I do at times to illustrate my power position in the relationship.I know you can do anything any way really, but I really question the long-term health of what's going on. It's fun and games now, but this kind of manipulation makes Domination into a chore months down the pike - I know, I've been manipulated. But this allows you to identify it.


Steve - Dude, I think it's great that you're getting more *comfortable* with some of this stuff on the physical level, but now it's time to focus on what pleases you. YOU - not her. Your wife is manipulating you to her fantasies of what being dominated entails. Which is fun if they line up, but if you are feeling like a puppy being given its reward biscuits in the endeavor something is not cool.

The whole notion that it's suddenly unsexy if it's not mind-reading on your part is unfair. Making reality line up with her fantasies is unfair and not your job. You have fantasies of your own, I hope. Make those happen.

Even if you are not lifestyle and this only applies in the bedroom - in fact *especially* if it only applies in the bedroom. Your sexuality matters too here.

"you win" getting a big ol' kiss that you asked for?

I hate to be offensive, this is how I treat my submissives. A refusal like that would have them kissing the toilet seat for an hour.

Decide what YOU like and want. Because it matters.

 

[JMohegan]

Reading while being done is something I do at times to illustrate my power position in the relationship.

Yeah, it seems clear to me that Mrs. Dallas has the control thing down pat.

Manipulative control, as you say. And I agree that it's unlikely to be healthy.

 

[Netzach]

Yeah, it seems clear to me that Mrs. Dallas has the control thing down pat.

Manipulative control, as you say. And I agree that it's unlikely to be healthy.

Every time a new Dom/Top of any gender isn't considering what they like independently of what the other person does - it makes me a sad panda.

 

[steve_dallas]

Reading while being done is something I do at times to illustrate my power position in the relationship.I know you can do anything any way really, but I really question the long-term health of what's going on. It's fun and games now, but this kind of manipulation makes Domination into a chore months down the pike - I know, I've been manipulated. But this allows you to identify it.


Steve - Dude, I think it's great that you're getting more *comfortable* with some of this stuff on the physical level, but now it's time to focus on what pleases you. YOU - not her. Your wife is manipulating you to her fantasies of what being dominated entails. Which is fun if they line up, but if you are feeling like a puppy being given its reward biscuits in the endeavor something is not cool.

The whole notion that it's suddenly unsexy if it's not mind-reading on your part is unfair. Making reality line up with her fantasies is unfair and not your job. You have fantasies of your own, I hope. Make those happen.

Even if you are not lifestyle and this only applies in the bedroom - in fact *especially* if it only applies in the bedroom. Your sexuality matters too here.

"you win" getting a big ol' kiss that you asked for?

I hate to be offensive, this is how I treat my submissives. A refusal like that would have them kissing the toilet seat for an hour.

Decide what YOU like and want. Because it matters.

That is an interesting perspective and I appreciate your input. That's what I'm here for; to ask questions to those who have experience and enjoy the experience we are having.

For more perspective, this isn't the extent of our sex life. We both enjoy good old fashion sex and do so on a regular basis. The spankings, submission, rough play is probably 20% or less of our encounters.

As far as her being manipulative; the events I described were a result of me experimenting with her. It would be hard to fault her for that. I didn't ask for a kiss, I ordered it. I started it and her pain tolerance was higher that mine willingness to inflict it. We were laughing when it started and we were laughing when it stopped, so there was no disappointment involved on my end.

As for the reading incident, I told her to keep reading because I wasn't trying to please her anyway. Again, laughing throughout the process.

As for my wants, she has been open to every suggestion I've ever made and has left me with nothing to complain about. My point in being here is based on me wanting to return the favor.

 

[steve_dallas]

She's never done that before? Never sucked your cock, bent over the dining room table, or done anything else sexually, because you told her to?

To clarify; I've never asked her to suck me clean after cumming in her. My point in posting it was to say that I asked her to do something that she has never done before and she did so without hesitation.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Your wife sounds as if she needs to learn that a belt can do more than hold up a man's trousers.

 

[Netzach]

That is an interesting perspective and I appreciate your input. That's what I'm here for; to ask questions to those who have experience and enjoy the experience we are having.

For more perspective, this isn't the extent of our sex life. We both enjoy good old fashion sex and do so on a regular basis. The spankings, submission, rough play is probably 20% or less of our encounters.

As far as her being manipulative; the events I described were a result of me experimenting with her. It would be hard to fault her for that. I didn't ask for a kiss, I ordered it. I started it and her pain tolerance was higher that mine willingness to inflict it. We were laughing when it started and we were laughing when it stopped, so there was no disappointment involved on my end.

As for the reading incident, I told her to keep reading because I wasn't trying to please her anyway. Again, laughing throughout the process.

As for my wants, she has been open to every suggestion I've ever made and has left me with nothing to complain about. My point in being here is based on me wanting to return the favor.

All cool then.

If you do start to feel like a slave to her fantasies, I encourage you to pipe up. This sometimes happens, actually it happens altogether too often without a lot of discussion of it. Glad you are having fun.

I still encourage the following: at least an hour's special you-time with your favorite lube and thinking about what you'd like to do to her - without once worrying or wondering "will she go for it."

Knowing what you actually *want* will give you some focus.

 

[DVS]

Take our suggestions with a grain of salt. We only know what you tell us and how you tell us. If it seems you were a wuss by the way you explained it, then you were a wuss. That's the bad part of a text based forum. You have to be very descriptive to get some of the people here to know what you mean. Don't worry too much about that.

Just keep on the path you are on. Remember, you are the dominant and she is the submissive. Sure, she should relate to you what she enjoys from you, but down the road, you are going to have to take charge and she will have to submit. It's getting there, but she still is in control.

I didn't like the part where you were fucking her while she continued to read. That might have seemed like you were taking her for your own pleasure and disregarding hers. But to me, it seemed like she was the one in control of you, being apathetic, not even giving you the benefit of responding to your taking her.

Now, if this were me, when she continued reading and spread her legs, to me that seemed to be "if you want it, take it, but I'm not going to participate" and that wouldn't work for me. If I'm going to fuck someone, that's all they are going to be thinking about and feeling. I don't care if I have to tie her hands behind her back, paddle her ass bright red to show her who's boss, and then bend her over a table and fuck the ever living crap out of her...she's going to participate one way or another.

It might be just me, but I don't enjoy fucking a woman who's not participating. To me that borders on necrophilia. She should at least act the part, even if she's only acting. She should almost worship you and your cock during sex, just as she did when you told her to lick you clean.

Of course, you must do your part, too. Being dominant isn't just spitting out words in a demanding way. You have to BE dominant. Like when you said you wussed out...you should have taken that to the next level...bondage, and or maybe a more strict implement like a paddle or belt to get your point across. Maybe you think that is going too far too soon, and only you can be the judge of that.

But eventually, you can't wuss out. Her behind should pay until she begs for mercy. Then, it will be up to you if she deserves any mercy. All of this will become clearer to you, as you progress together. And you should talk to her as this process continues, exploring what triggers the submissive in her. Eventually, you'll have her whimpering and begging for more. Talk about an ego boost!

But, I agree that you're on the right track. Keep it up. It only gets better.

 

[Netzach]

Take our suggestions with a grain of salt. We only know what you tell us and how you tell us. If it seems you were a wuss by the way you explained it, then you were a wuss. That's the bad part of a text based forum. You have to be very descriptive to get some of the people here to know what you mean. Don't worry too much about that.

Just keep on the path you are on. Remember, you are the dominant and she is the submissive. Sure, she should relate to you what she enjoys from you, but down the road, you are going to have to take charge and she will have to submit. It's getting there, but she still is in control.

I didn't like the part where you were fucking her while she continued to read. That might have seemed like you were taking her for your own pleasure and disregarding hers. But to me, it seemed like she was the one in control of you, being apathetic, not even giving you the benefit of responding to your taking her.

Now, if this were me, when she continued reading and spread her legs, to me that seemed to be "if you want it, take it, but I'm not going to participate" and that wouldn't work for me. If I'm going to fuck someone, that's all they are going to be thinking about and feeling. I don't care if I have to tie her hands behind her back, paddle her ass bright red to show her who's boss, and then bend her over a table and fuck the ever living crap out of her...she's going to participate one way or another.

It might be just me, but I don't enjoy fucking a woman who's not participating. To me that borders on necrophilia. She should at least act the part, even if she's only acting. She should almost worship you and your cock during sex, just as she did when you told her to lick you clean.

Of course, you must do your part, too. Being dominant isn't just spitting out words in a demanding way. You have to BE dominant. Like when you said you wussed out...you should have taken that to the next level...bondage, and or maybe a more strict implement like a paddle or belt to get your point across. Maybe you think that is going too far too soon, and only you can be the judge of that.

But eventually, you can't wuss out. Her behind should pay until she begs for mercy. Then, it will be up to you if she deserves any mercy. All of this will become clearer to you, as you progress together. And you should talk to her as this process continues, exploring what triggers the submissive in her. Eventually, you'll have her whimpering and begging for more. Talk about an ego boost!

But, I agree that you're on the right track. Keep it up. It only gets better.

I hear what you're saying.

If you're new and you're not comfortable ramping up the physical aspect of it, though, there are other ways to deal with "I'm going to read while you fuck me" kinds of attitude (which I would not tolerate, personally. I'm trying to get my head around this and be nice and see it as her being available, but I'm having trouble with it, I admit - although re-reading it, I kind of like the "keep reading if it's so important, because I'm going to fuck your holes" - that is kinda twisty)

If the situation gets to where it gets uncomfortable for your own limits and you don't want to press on in the "game" sense , you can STOP paddling, wrestling, anything. The fun ends abruptly if the behavior is unacceptable. She's training, and training her right back is needed, even if you want to be perfectly egalitarian sex partners, because right now it still sounds like she has the chips of wanting something you are trying to do for her.

 

[subish2009]

Take our suggestions with a grain of salt. We only know what you tell us and how you tell us. If it seems you were a wuss by the way you explained it, then you were a wuss. That's the bad part of a text based forum. You have to be very descriptive to get some of the people here to know what you mean. Don't worry too much about that.

Just keep on the path you are on. Remember, you are the dominant and she is the submissive. Sure, she should relate to you what she enjoys from you, but down the road, you are going to have to take charge and she will have to submit. It's getting there, but she still is in control.

I didn't like the part where you were fucking her while she continued to read. That might have seemed like you were taking her for your own pleasure and disregarding hers. But to me, it seemed like she was the one in control of you, being apathetic, not even giving you the benefit of responding to your taking her.

Now, if this were me, when she continued reading and spread her legs, to me that seemed to be "if you want it, take it, but I'm not going to participate" and that wouldn't work for me. If I'm going to fuck someone, that's all they are going to be thinking about and feeling. I don't care if I have to tie her hands behind her back, paddle her ass bright red to show her who's boss, and then bend her over a table and fuck the ever living crap out of her...she's going to participate one way or another.

It might be just me, but I don't enjoy fucking a woman who's not participating. To me that borders on necrophilia. She should at least act the part, even if she's only acting. She should almost worship you and your cock during sex, just as she did when you told her to lick you clean.

Of course, you must do your part, too. Being dominant isn't just spitting out words in a demanding way. You have to BE dominant. Like when you said you wussed out...you should have taken that to the next level...bondage, and or maybe a more strict implement like a paddle or belt to get your point across. Maybe you think that is going too far too soon, and only you can be the judge of that.

But eventually, you can't wuss out. Her behind should pay until she begs for mercy. Then, it will be up to you if she deserves any mercy. All of this will become clearer to you, as you progress together. And you should talk to her as this process continues, exploring what triggers the submissive in her. Eventually, you'll have her whimpering and begging for more. Talk about an ego boost!

But, I agree that you're on the right track. Keep it up. It only gets better.

QFT. All of it. But I especially agree that the book-reading scene sounds like she was the one actually in control. None of us were there, so maybe we're misreading the situation, but that's definitely how it sounds. She let you have sex with her, you didn't take it.

The spanking scene...I get it if you're having a hard time hurting her. There are other says to punish/train her though. Consequences are endless. Orgasm denial gets a point across to me a hell of a lot better than a beating does. Denial of just about anything does, actually, because I crave engagement more than anything. What does she crave most from you?

I think, however, that we're focusing a lot here on what didn't work, and your acknowledgment of those particular trigger words that DID seem to work is getting overlooked. Definitely keep exploring that...watch for that subspacey look and figure out how to get her there. The stuff you said about her fighting you until the actual sex, then she gets all super-subbie...I can relate to that to a point. I suspect she just doesn't know how to get there herself, how to let go. I used to be very much like that. While I still have my moments, my subbie self becomes a more comfortable and easier place to access the longer I'm in a D/s relationship (or two). I'm trying to think about specifically how I've gotten better at that and am coming up blank at the moment...I'll talk to the husband and let you know if he has any thoughts that might help you.

I do think you're on the right track. I think you have a ways to go, but you guys can get there. Good luck!

 

[JMohegan]

Thanks for the clarifications, Steve.

I'm still gonna reiterate Netzach's advice to focus on what *you* want, because here's the confusion I'm seeing. You keep saying that the point is you're not supposed to be focusing on pleasing her, and yet the whole point of the experiment itself is to please her, so you're still focusing on how to please her throughout the process! Sort of a self-imposed Catch-22.

But consider this. Not focusing on pleasing her, in the moment, doesn't just mean ignoring her clit. It means you initiate stuff that YOU dreamed up that genuinely makes YOU hot.

If it makes you hot to fuck her while she keeps reading, then by all means tell her to do that. If it makes you hotter to order her to read out loud in a steady voice, while you're fucking and teasing and doling out consequences for any vocal wavering (bites, nipple twists, whatever), then do that instead. Or, if there's really nothing hot to you about a book in bed, then get rid of the thing and try something else instead.

The point is, whatever gets YOU hot, that's what happens.

You got your cock cleaned, post-coitus. That's a nice start.

 

[infinity706]

I don't personally see anything wrong with the book reading. There just should have been assigned reading and a quiz at the end of the fucking with [insert reasonable punishment] for each question missed. I probably would have opted for X number of slaps on her mouth, pussy, or asshole, depending on which got fucked or possibly X drops of hot pepper sauce, depending on how I was feeling. There's nothing inherently wrong about making a sub read while getting fucked, though.

As for the thing about her pleasure, though, if it makes you hot to get her off, though, you could seriously force her to accept having her pussy eaten if you want. It's not like there's anything inherently wrong with eating a sub out.

 

[JMohegan]

I was spanking her pretty hard and I know it hurt. After several minutes of her ducking her head under her arms and wimpering, I wussed out.

I stopped and told her that she won. She rolled over smiling and then gave me a big kiss.

I'm gonna offer an alternative suggestion to the ones made by Rosco and DVS. Not because I think there's anything wrong with what they wrote, but because if you're not comfortable with it, you're not comfortable with it, and that's fine. Not everyone is.

But that doesn't mean you can't give yourself some cover. So instead of declaring defeat, push her off your lap and do something to throw her off balance. Say something like, "I tire of all that wimpering. Do you have anything to say for yourself?" Or (since you guys were laughing), pin her to the floor and switch to tickling her mercilessly instead.



.

 

[eastern sun]

Your wife is a very lucky lady.

I agree with others' advice to begin focussing on your own pleasure. You are pleasing her, by taking these actions. But I guarantee the day will come when you won't. Even when you're trying to.

It is very easy for a new sub to lose perspective, and expect to be turned on by everything that happens. It can be a real disappointment when you do something that doesn't turn her on. That disappointment can really get in the way.

If you introduce the idea early on that she is going to do things to please you (and clearly she likes the idea and the phrase) and then express your own pleasure as she succeeds, you will both be in a better position when the whole situation loses its novelty.

 

[JMohegan]

But eventually, you can't wuss out. Her behind should pay until she begs for mercy. Then, it will be up to you if she deserves any mercy.

I hear you, DVS, I really do.

But everyone's comfort line is different, and there has to be the D equivalent of a safeword. If someone told me to go beyond what I was comfortable doing with a partner, my response would be: fuck you.

 

[DVS]

I hear you, DVS, I really do.

But everyone's comfort line is different, and there has to be the D equivalent of a safeword. If someone told me to go beyond what I was comfortable doing with a partner, my response would be: fuck you.

Yes, of course. In time he'll be more comfortable with his own limits as well as what she's comfortable with. Like everybody else, I'm offering advice. But, I'm also offering a scenario with my advice, so he can relate to where I'm coming from. He's got a lot to think about, right now. I'm sure he can ask me for a clarification, if he needs it.

 

[Netzach]

I don't personally see anything wrong with the book reading. There just should have been assigned reading and a quiz at the end of the fucking with [insert reasonable punishment] for each question missed. I probably would have opted for X number of slaps on her mouth, pussy, or asshole, depending on which got fucked or possibly X drops of hot pepper sauce, depending on how I was feeling. There's nothing inherently wrong about making a sub read while getting fucked, though.

As for the thing about her pleasure, though, if it makes you hot to get her off, though, you could seriously force her to accept having her pussy eaten if you want. It's not like there's anything inherently wrong with eating a sub out.

Right - nice ideas BTW. I really don't care if the idea is "let's dress up in foam hot dog suits and screw" as long as it's *his* idea.

 

[midwestyankee]

Right - nice ideas BTW. I really don't care if the idea is "let's dress up in foam hot dog suits and screw" as long as it's *his* idea.

Now that's some hot crossed buns!

 

[intothewoods]

I'm gonna offer an alternative suggestion to the ones made by Rosco and DVS. Not because I think there's anything wrong with what they wrote, but because if you're not comfortable with it, you're not comfortable with it, and that's fine. Not everyone is.

But that doesn't mean you can't give yourself some cover. So instead of declaring defeat, push her off your lap and do something to throw her off balance. Say something like, "I tire of all that wimpering. Do you have anything to say for yourself?" Or (since you guys were laughing), pin her to the floor and switch to tickling her mercilessly instead.



.

 

[infinity706]

I'm gonna offer an alternative suggestion to the ones made by Rosco and DVS. Not because I think there's anything wrong with what they wrote, but because if you're not comfortable with it, you're not comfortable with it, and that's fine. Not everyone is.

But that doesn't mean you can't give yourself some cover. So instead of declaring defeat, push her off your lap and do something to throw her off balance. Say something like, "I tire of all that wimpering. Do you have anything to say for yourself?" Or (since you guys were laughing), pin her to the floor and switch to tickling her mercilessly instead.



.

I'd still opt for switching her while tickling her. There's an awesome irony to a sub that can't stop laughing even while you beat them with a stick.

Right - nice ideas BTW. I really don't care if the idea is "let's dress up in foam hot dog suits and screw" as long as it's *his* idea.

Yeah, but if you're going to fuck in hotdog suits, someone should be getting stuffed with a hotdog. (with a condom due to the breaking issue)

 

[steve_dallas]

Take our suggestions with a grain of salt. We only know what you tell us and how you tell us. If it seems you were a wuss by the way you explained it, then you were a wuss. That's the bad part of a text based forum. You have to be very descriptive to get some of the people here to know what you mean. Don't worry too much about that.

Thanks DVS for your comments. Everyone reading this has a different picture of us in their minds I'm sure. I tried to avoid overkill in describing what is going on, but it does leave much open to interpretation. The wuss comment was really an attempt at self-deprecating humor. I've got a fairly healthy male ego, but didn't want to come across as one of those jerks who thinks he's god's gift to women. But I did learn an important lesson about showing weakness on a dominance board!

What really happened is I was afraid she had forgotten about our safe word. The only time she has ever used was once when I started spanking her and she wasn't in the mood to play.

Just keep on the path you are on. Remember, you are the dominant and she is the submissive. Sure, she should relate to you what she enjoys from you, but down the road, you are going to have to take charge and she will have to submit. It's getting there, but she still is in control.

I didn't like the part where you were fucking her while she continued to read. That might have seemed like you were taking her for your own pleasure and disregarding hers. But to me, it seemed like she was the one in control of you, being apathetic, not even giving you the benefit of responding to your taking her.

This part seems to be getting a lot of attention. I initiated every step of it. The book reading only continued for a few minutes while we laughed and joked about it. The point of doing it wasn't even that I enjoyed it. It was that I told her to and she did without a struggle. It ended up being wonderful sex once we got serious.

Now, if this were me, when she continued reading and spread her legs, to me that seemed to be "if you want it, take it, but I'm not going to participate" and that wouldn't work for me. If I'm going to fuck someone, that's all they are going to be thinking about and feeling. I don't care if I have to tie her hands behind her back, paddle her ass bright red to show her who's boss, and then bend her over a table and fuck the ever living crap out of her...she's going to participate one way or another.

It might be just me, but I don't enjoy fucking a woman who's not participating. To me that borders on necrophilia. She should at least act the part, even if she's only acting. She should almost worship you and your cock during sex, just as she did when you told her to lick you clean.

Of course, you must do your part, too. Being dominant isn't just spitting out words in a demanding way. You have to BE dominant. Like when you said you wussed out...you should have taken that to the next level...bondage, and or maybe a more strict implement like a paddle or belt to get your point across. Maybe you think that is going too far too soon, and only you can be the judge of that.

But eventually, you can't wuss out. Her behind should pay until she begs for mercy. Then, it will be up to you if she deserves any mercy. All of this will become clearer to you, as you progress together. And you should talk to her as this process continues, exploring what triggers the submissive in her. Eventually, you'll have her whimpering and begging for more. Talk about an ego boost!

But, I agree that you're on the right track. Keep it up. It only gets better.

Again, thanks for your comments. We really are enjoying ourselves.