So my wife wants to be a Sub

[satindesire]

Yeah, it seems clear to me that Mrs. Dallas has the control thing down pat.

Manipulative control, as you say. And I agree that it's unlikely to be healthy.

I think it's hard for people who aren't educated and experienced to "be submissive" and "be dominant" in the way that we would accept as typical. It's just like manners, it has to be learned, over time. We can't very well expect her to be a "typical submissive" if she just started.

But consider this. Not focusing on pleasing her, in the moment, doesn't just mean ignoring her clit. It means you initiate stuff that YOU dreamed up that genuinely makes YOU hot.

That's a good point. Focusing on your pleasure doesn't mean she doesn't get to orgasm, necessarily, unless you DON'T want her to. There are plenty of submissive women that still get regularly sexually satisfied. ^_^

 

[RunningJib]

YC is Spot On

Heres my advice

Find some sexual stuff that you want to do, that is new to her, or makes her a bit uncomfortable or exited. Sounds like the hard part of that in your case isnt reading her, but finding something you are interested in. You could tie her up and do her, anal, deep throat, on the floor, on a table, whatever.

When you go for it, don't be uneasy about it, it's fine to be exited, but at least appear like you know what you are doing. You don't even have to be good at it, chances are she wont notice, remember it's about the sex, not about procedure. Improvise.

Then you have to change your mindset, this may be hard. Instead of going for a mutual experience, toy with her instead. Play with her body, play with her mind. You can always do the mutual thing tomorrow, so don't worry about it.

Then at some point throughout the day, talk about it, evolve.

When I discovered that a lover was a sub, I learned that it was more how I was the master than what the master did.

A suggestion. Hide a paddle or whip where she will find. Also place a pair of panties along side with a note. With your instructions--how she is to be dressed, etc. etc.

When, at your messure, delivery a good spanking. Be decisive--you are in control

 

[steve_dallas]

Hello again everyone,
First I want to thank you all for your replies. We have a lot of exploring to do, but I feel like we are on the right track towards learning new ways to please one another.

We are off on vacation and I found out that my wife had packed her paddle. So just for fun, I'm making her wait before I pull it out.

Regarding the original topic, I'm pretty sure that what does it for her is for me to simply tell her I want what I want her to do. That sounds pretty boring I'm sure, but I think the "I want" part is what makes it submission for her and she seems willing to go where ever I take it.

For instance, in bed last night, I knelt over her and told her, "I want you to open you mouth and suck me", she did so dutifully. Usually, she initiates the oral. No particular reason, that is just our normal rhythm. I face fucked her for the first time. We incorporate a lot of oral play, but this was the first time that I truly treated her mouth that way. She loved it!

My next step will involve spanking. Usually I spank her while she is bound, but this time I will instruct her that I want to bend her over and spank her with no restraints involved and see how well she endures it when she has the choice to try and protect herself.

Again, I'm sure this sounds very boring to some. We aren't trying anything new, just doing things for a new reason. I hope that subtle difference makes sense.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was wondering about that. "It would please me." "I want." Awesomely powerful words!

It's great fun following you two on your voyage, so to speak.

 

[Netzach]

Hello again everyone,
First I want to thank you all for your replies. We have a lot of exploring to do, but I feel like we are on the right track towards learning new ways to please one another.

We are off on vacation and I found out that my wife had packed her paddle. So just for fun, I'm making her wait before I pull it out.

Regarding the original topic, I'm pretty sure that what does it for her is for me to simply tell her I want what I want her to do. That sounds pretty boring I'm sure, but I think the "I want" part is what makes it submission for her and she seems willing to go where ever I take it.

For instance, in bed last night, I knelt over her and told her, "I want you to open you mouth and suck me", she did so dutifully. Usually, she initiates the oral. No particular reason, that is just our normal rhythm. I face fucked her for the first time. We incorporate a lot of oral play, but this was the first time that I truly treated her mouth that way. She loved it!

My next step will involve spanking. Usually I spank her while she is bound, but this time I will instruct her that I want to bend her over and spank her with no restraints involved and see how well she endures it when she has the choice to try and protect herself.

Again, I'm sure this sounds very boring to some. We aren't trying anything new, just doing things for a new reason. I hope that subtle difference makes sense.

Absolutely. The most fun is often not the swinging from the rafters stuff.

 

[Adakgirl]

I think you may have been trying to objectify her with the "keep reading your book while I use you" thing and possibly without you even being really aware that that's what you were doing. I think you wanted to use her as an available, accessible fuck hole and in doing so, the whole thing excited you, and your excitement and control, excited her.
So I don't necessarily agree with the
"She wasn't involved, all she had to do was lay there = she was controlling you" line of thinking here. It could have just as easily been a foray into exploratory objectification.

However, what is being explained to you here, is this. When your point is "wanting to return the favor" THAT is where your weakness lies. You told her that you weren't fucking her to please her...but in fact...you really were. So that added to the "you won" (you submitted to her , you gave up the control that you had and handed it right to her). Also you being concerned about her forgetting her safe word...and using that as your reason to stop the spanking...is
well..weakness
trust me she knows that safe word and she would have said it had you gone too far. I think you stopped because you were moving out of YOUR comfort zone not because of her's.
And that's fine, as long as you recognize it for what it was. You did wimp out, she knew it and you knew it too.
So these are things to think about and work on strengthening within yourself if you don't want her to grab the reins whenever she happens to feel like it and use them to manipulate and control you.

For instance, you might have thought to tell her/ask her to pack her paddle, or you might have taken it back out of that bag when you noticed it, left it home or took it along in a bag so you had control of it. She was assuming if she brings it you will use it on her. She would have assumed correctly and that gives her power. That's manipulating something in order to get something she wants from you... for you to paddle her. That's not her assumption to make. Did you realize that? No...but now do you see it?

Other than that I think you have a really great start so far, keep up the good work...but you have to THINK about this stuff...it's the mind fuck thats the real sweet spot, not the physical fuck.

 

[fuckmeat]

What really happened is I was afraid she had forgotten about our safe word. The only time she has ever used was once when I started spanking her and she wasn't in the mood to play.

I might seem like I'm nitpicking but this raises a flag to me. Her safeword should not be a lazy way of saying 'not tonight darling.' If you let her use the safeword in trivial ways like this, when it comes to the crunch and she's genuinely reached the end of her tolerance to something, you're still going to wonder whether she just took an easy out. You can't explore her limits unless you're absolutely certain of where they are and misuse of a safeword will lead to misapprehensions on that score.

Also, another simple way to see if she's forgotten her safeword, is just to ask her. There's nothing wrong with saying 'what's your safeword bitch' being answered correctly and then going right on with whatever you're doing. So long as you consider she's lucid enough to use it, you have carte blanche to keep pushing. You have to remember that she's goading you because you're not pushing hard enough. Once she knows you'll happily dish out as much as she can handle and more, she'll think twice about riling you. A certain amount of fear is a healthy part of submission, just as fear of disappointing their parents is healthy for children. She doesn't have that fear of you yet but once she does, you'll know it. You shouldn't fear that either. It won't make you some kind of abusive ogre. She'll retain her safeword and she'll love and worship her to distraction. You don't always have to push her into using it either, she just needs to know you're capable and willing to.

Also, you might want to think about groundrules and punishment/discipline. Since she's masochistic, spanking isn't really a punishment. Have her do mundane things when she disappoints you, I guarantee she'll learn much faster.

 

[littleunicorn918]

You have to remember that she's goading you because you're not pushing hard enough. Once she knows you'll happily dish out as much as she can handle and more, she'll think twice about riling you. A certain amount of fear is a healthy part of submission, just as fear of disappointing their parents is healthy for children. She doesn't have that fear of you yet but once she does, you'll know it. You shouldn't fear that either. It won't make you some kind of abusive ogre. She'll retain her safeword and she'll love and worship her to distraction. You don't always have to push her into using it either, she just needs to know you're capable and willing to.

Very good poiunt here. I think this is a similar problem thewe are having. I have done more reading and research than he has so I think my mind is further along in the process. We both have the desire and willingness to get into heavier play. Also remember that this is a learning process for both of you. It takes time it will not happen over night.

BTW... How was the vacation?

 

[steve_dallas]

Hi folks,
Thanks for keeping up with this and thanks for all the advice.

The vacation was great. We were on the beach in Florida just before the oil started showing up, so the timing was great. Very relaxing.

Regarding the recent comments;
Yes, I am the weak one at this point, but we both know that and are adjusting to it. She gives me grief about it and I keep working at it. It just isn't my nature and while I'm getting more comfortable with it, it doesn't come naturally.

When I give up to quickly, we just laugh about it like you would if you lost an erection right in the middle of sex. We move on and try again later.

Regarding the safe word; we have never taken our play to a point of pushing her limits so while we had discussed a safe word, it had never become a reality. I brought the topic up later when we were talking and she told me she had actually forgot we even had that in place.

One minor side note- I find in her a distinct difference between times when she wants to submit and when she wants to be forced. I don't know if this is common to see, but we were joking the other night about "Monday she submits willingly and Tuesday I beat it out of her."

I know we are not keeping the rules of a strict dom/sub relationship here, but the original point of this thread centered around me discovering that she had a desire to submit to me, but not necessarily through force. Perhaps the point being that it was done without force. Therein lies the mental fun that adakgirl referred to.

thanks again for all the input. We're working on it.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Hi folks,
Thanks for keeping up with this and thanks for all the advice.

The vacation was great. We were on the beach in Florida just before the oil started showing up, so the timing was great. Very relaxing.

Regarding the recent comments;
Yes, I am the weak one at this point, but we both know that and are adjusting to it. She gives me grief about it and I keep working at it. It just isn't my nature and while I'm getting more comfortable with it, it doesn't come naturally.

When I give up to quickly, we just laugh about it like you would if you lost an erection right in the middle of sex. We move on and try again later.

Regarding the safe word; we have never taken our play to a point of pushing her limits so while we had discussed a safe word, it had never become a reality. I brought the topic up later when we were talking and she told me she had actually forgot we even had that in place.

One minor side note- I find in her a distinct difference between times when she wants to submit and when she wants to be forced. I don't know if this is common to see, but we were joking the other night about "Monday she submits willingly and Tuesday I beat it out of her."

I know we are not keeping the rules of a strict dom/sub relationship here, but the original point of this thread centered around me discovering that she had a desire to submit to me, but not necessarily through force. Perhaps the point being that it was done without force. Therein lies the mental fun that adakgirl referred to.

thanks again for all the input. We're working on it.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter what we say, so long as you're both happy with how things are going, that's the important thing.

 

[Adakgirl]

trust me she knows that safe word and she would have said it had you gone too far.

HA! well, then I suppose you shouldn't 'trust me" because I was totally wrong in making that assumption.
I still stick by this though

I think you stopped because you were moving out of YOUR comfort zone not because of her's.

please excuse the long post..I'm hitting on a bunch of things at once. Probably unnecessarily too, but plz bare (heh) with me. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Steve, there are no strict rules of a Dom/sub relationship that you have to keep to, other than those that you decide upon and agree to follow...between yourselves.
What works for some doesn't work at all for others.What turns on one sadist or masochist, might sicken and appall another. One doesn't even have to be sadistic or masochistic in order to enjoy a great D/s dynamic.
Every relationship is different and unique unto its own. Just like people are.

But if you are seeking a Dominant/submissive relationship, even if it's strictly sexual, then one MUST want to dominate and the other must want to and be willing to submit to that domination. Those two things feed off of each other. What you need to understand is how certain things, certain mind things, if allowed to continue can work against you, confuse the exchange of power between you and after awhile it just won't work anymore.

You can't go against your nature Steve, not for very long anyway. People don't function like that. Dominance is something that you are born with, either you have it or you don't. Some people uncover and discover the dominant trait inside them that has been buried so deeply, they never knew it existed and same with some submissives, like me for instance ...but it has to be there in the first place, you to have it in you.

You can fake it for sexual play, but like you say, you both will always know that you are the weaker one. You can't make this up, you can't expect that Dominating her will, somehow, someday, all of a sudden, feel natural to you. That's probably not going to happen.

She knows she's submissive, but yet at times...she tends to dominate you,
If she truly wants you to dominate her sexually, then it's all or nothing. She can't have her cake and eat it too. She gives it or you take it.

If you start to spank her because you feel like playing and she isn't in the mood...she can tell you that she's not in the mood. Then you decide if you want to continue the play or not. If your decision is to continue, then she needs to be able to submit to that, be willing to do what it takes to please you, regardless if she's in the mood or not or likes it or not. That's what submission is. It's not her place to make those kinds of decisions, it's your place, it's not her call, it's your call and you have to be strong enough to make that call.

Perhaps you might experiment with switching roles occasionally, see how that goes.This is about both of you, not just her. You don't want to end up resenting her because the only way for you to please her is to act in a manner that doesn't feel right to you and that makes you feel like you are going against your very nature.

 

[SpiritRider]

I know we are not keeping the rules

First thing to remember is that the rules are for you and your partner to make. There's no such thing as a correct and only way.

 

[hoodooman]

here's an idea that will let you know what she wants without having to tell you....get some porno pics...maybe bdsm playing cards if there are any...

have her sort them out in order of preference...so maybe she puts bondage, spanking, forced oral in front and scat, blood and so forth are last...let her put some in the never pile and others in the frequently/always pile

to me it isn't the deeds but rather the demand that turns me on...

so you'll have an insight into what and how a deed is to be done rather than a guess

 

[Kojote]

I wonder how this ‚book-reading sex-scene‘ would have worked out, if you would have demanded her to drop the book and concentrate on pleasuring you. Including the whole ‘showing how much it turns her on’ thing…
Looking at the final conclusion of the ‘encounter’ I think she was waiting exactly for this kind of response…

I think she teases you, steve.
Over and over again.
And personally I think it’s a good thing.
She knows who you are and that you are not the one you would beat the shit out of her. She seems to trust you and now she is trying to tickle you ‘bad boy’ out, because she is craving for that one.

This might not be the classic form of a D/s relationship.
Neither of you is in the dominant role all the time.
But who cares?
If she wants to play with it and you like it this way: Keep that going.
You don’t have to become the dom or master with her as your sub or slave. Both of you can remain pretty equal. Except for those adventurous trips every once in a while.

The actual game seems to be the one of fighting her into submission. Once she really submits to you it would be over. Do you want that? Or do you enjoy the fighting?

From my point of view this has the potential to go almost everywhere. It could become almost any kind of relationship. Take your time to work out what both of you really want and enjoy the things as they are till then.

 

[subish2009]

I wonder how this ‚book-reading sex-scene‘ would have worked out, if you would have demanded her to drop the book and concentrate on pleasuring you. Including the whole ‘showing how much it turns her on’ thing…
Looking at the final conclusion of the ‘encounter’ I think she was waiting exactly for this kind of response…

I think she teases you, steve.
Over and over again.
And personally I think it’s a good thing.
She knows who you are and that you are not the one you would beat the shit out of her. She seems to trust you and now she is trying to tickle you ‘bad boy’ out, because she is craving for that one.

This might not be the classic form of a D/s relationship.
Neither of you is in the dominant role all the time.
But who cares?
If she wants to play with it and you like it this way: Keep that going.
You don’t have to become the dom or master with her as your sub or slave. Both of you can remain pretty equal. Except for those adventurous trips every once in a while.

The actual game seems to be the one of fighting her into submission. Once she really submits to you it would be over. Do you want that? Or do you enjoy the fighting?

From my point of view this has the potential to go almost everywhere. It could become almost any kind of relationship. Take your time to work out what both of you really want and enjoy the things as they are till then.

I think there's some good advice here. I also wonder if you two aren't more top/bottom than D/s...? Or maybe you're both a little switchy?

Not that the labels matter, but it might help in terms of identifying what you're both looking for. I do get the feeling that you both might be trying to force yourselves into what the majority of posters here think of as the general idea of what it means to be D/s, when your hearts and loins might really be more comfortable with taking turns being tops and bottoms and doing a little D/s role-play when it floats your boat.

I can relate to the game-playing...her trying to push your buttons to draw some Domliness out of you...that can be fun, and it doesn't make her not subby, but she might not fit as neatly into that category as some. And you definitely do not sound to me like a classic Dom. Nothing wrong with that in the slightest, but recognizing that difference might help with the advice you get here and the direction forward in which you two move in your explorations. Make sense?

 

[steve_dallas]

I think there's some good advice here. I also wonder if you two aren't more top/bottom than D/s...? Or maybe you're both a little switchy?

Not that the labels matter, but it might help in terms of identifying what you're both looking for. I do get the feeling that you both might be trying to force yourselves into what the majority of posters here think of as the general idea of what it means to be D/s, when your hearts and loins might really be more comfortable with taking turns being tops and bottoms and doing a little D/s role-play when it floats your boat.

I can relate to the game-playing...her trying to push your buttons to draw some Domliness out of you...that can be fun, and it doesn't make her not subby, but she might not fit as neatly into that category as some. And you definitely do not sound to me like a classic Dom. Nothing wrong with that in the slightest, but recognizing that difference might help with the advice you get here and the direction forward in which you two move in your explorations. Make sense?

Again, thanks for all of the comments. First, let me say that my wife isn't reading any of this. Not really keeping it secret, but she doesn't browse the forums at all. This is my way of seeking out advice on trying something new.

Regarding roles; I don't have any inclinations towards the sub side. Nothing against it, it just holds no appeal. With that, I am definitely not a natural dominant. I've always been that nice guy who was careful never to offend anyone or be confrontational- you know the type.

So anyway, Sunday night, we pushed the limits a little. I had been promising to tie her up and spank her for three nights, but with 3 small kids, etc. we just never got around to it. So we go to bed and I just curl up behind her, get a good grip on her wrist and start lightly smacking. I kept working up to harder and tightening my grip until she was squirming with every stroke.

Eventually she started wimpering and on the verge of tears, but I kept going. That point is normally my threshold. I would pause once in a while and finger her, finally telling her to fuck my hand which she did immediately and vigorously. Then I went back to spanking.

When I got to the point that I thought she was thoroughly worked up, I told her to suck me and get me wet enough to fuck her. She immediately sat up and did so. I told her I was going to keep spanking her while she did it, but she wasn't to stop. She took it like a trooper, but once I spanked her pretty solid and she clinched up. I though, "oh shit, she's going to bite it off!" But I told her not to stop so she kept going.

After a few minutes of this I finally took her and she came very quickly.

When we were done, she got up, went to the bathroom, then kissed me good night and went downstairs. The next morning, I asked her if she enjoyed it and she immediately smiled and said "yes she did". She very much enjoyed me being in charge that way.

So progress made for both of us. Me toward being willing to do things that I once thought were offensive and her for deciding that she enjoys it as much as she hoped she would.

 

[Wizard]

"She won"??

I don't like to hear that at all.

That statement stopped me too... lol

 

[MALIBUMAN666]

Again, thanks for all of the comments. First, let me say that my wife isn't reading any of this. Not really keeping it secret, but she doesn't browse the forums at all. This is my way of seeking out advice on trying something new.

Regarding roles; I don't have any inclinations towards the sub side. Nothing against it, it just holds no appeal. With that, I am definitely not a natural dominant. I've always been that nice guy who was careful never to offend anyone or be confrontational- you know the type.

So anyway, Sunday night, we pushed the limits a little. I had been promising to tie her up and spank her for three nights, but with 3 small kids, etc. we just never got around to it. So we go to bed and I just curl up behind her, get a good grip on her wrist and start lightly smacking. I kept working up to harder and tightening my grip until she was squirming with every stroke.

Eventually she started wimpering and on the verge of tears, but I kept going. That point is normally my threshold. I would pause once in a while and finger her, finally telling her to fuck my hand which she did immediately and vigorously. Then I went back to spanking.

When I got to the point that I thought she was thoroughly worked up, I told her to suck me and get me wet enough to fuck her. She immediately sat up and did so. I told her I was going to keep spanking her while she did it, but she wasn't to stop. She took it like a trooper, but once I spanked her pretty solid and she clinched up. I though, "oh shit, she's going to bite it off!" But I told her not to stop so she kept going.

After a few minutes of this I finally took her and she came very quickly.

When we were done, she got up, went to the bathroom, then kissed me good night and went downstairs. The next morning, I asked her if she enjoyed it and she immediately smiled and said "yes she did". She very much enjoyed me being in charge that way.

So progress made for both of us. Me toward being willing to do things that I once thought were offensive and her for deciding that she enjoys it as much as she hoped she would.

A small point, why did she go downstairs?


I have found this thread very interesting. I do feel however that some of the contributions are a little presumptuous. Like Steve said, she didn't know her safeword, didn't even remember she'd got one, so it's as well that he didn't batter her until she used it!

As a submissive type myself, and very lucky to have a mildly dominant wife to play with, I completely understand where Steve is coming from, even though we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I feel my wife is probably in much the same position as you are, and for all the people decrying your wife's actions, I can totally relate to her position. If you are with someone who dominance doesn't come naturally to, then of course you are going to try and guide them into giving you what you want. This may be topping from the bottom, but it's better than leaving your SO floundering and getting nowhere.

Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself Steve, keep it up, and don't worry too much about what's 'right and wrong'. If it makes you and your wife happy then it's right!

 

[steve_dallas]

A small point, why did she go downstairs?


I have found this thread very interesting. I do feel however that some of the contributions are a little presumptuous. Like Steve said, she didn't know her safeword, didn't even remember she'd got one, so it's as well that he didn't batter her until she used it!

As a submissive type myself, and very lucky to have a mildly dominant wife to play with, I completely understand where Steve is coming from, even though we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I feel my wife is probably in much the same position as you are, and for all the people decrying your wife's actions, I can totally relate to her position. If you are with someone who dominance doesn't come naturally to, then of course you are going to try and guide them into giving you what you want. This may be topping from the bottom, but it's better than leaving your SO floundering and getting nowhere.

Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself Steve, keep it up, and don't worry too much about what's 'right and wrong'. If it makes you and your wife happy then it's right!

Typically, sex wakes her up. My second guess would be that she wanted some time alone to think about what had just happened; we took it farther than usual. I was a bit concerned that I had upset her, but I was wrong. She was happy with it.

 

[myschyfnmayhem]

Steve you and your wife sound alot like us. We view this new territory as another facet of a long marriage and a relationship based on total trust. It seemed an imminent evolution and I'm finally getting out of the "protection" mentality that held me back from being her Master. -Mayhem-