Soliciting critique and discussion

[annaswirls]

Do you see the two works differently by curbing the pen? I agree it's a much better read but I think tightening the form sets a different atmosphere for the reader to absorb.

I think the tighter form encourages the content to be taken more seriously.



The first work was more similar to a handfull of paragraphs pulled from a larger story. Is there a name for this? Is there a market for this in regard to readers or consumers?

You could do it in flash fiction style-- just keep it in the paragraphs. The market for flash fiction is huge. Of course there is prose poetry which tends to um be more prosey

aye aye I am a lot of help.

and I only re-did it for fun, not because I think my way is somehow better

 

[ruminator]

You could do it in flash fiction style-- just keep it in the paragraphs. The market for flash fiction is huge. Of course there is prose poetry which tends to um be more prosey

aye aye I am a lot of help.

and I only re-did it for fun, not because I think my way is somehow better

Thank you anna,

I appreciate the help and advice. The original was written on a whim and when the subjects of form and content came up I thought it would be a candidate for Litidissection.



I figured it was nothing but a loose collection of thoughts without purpose.

 

[annaswirls]

I figured it was nothing but a loose collection of thoughts without purpose.

pshaw!

nothing but?

thoughts without purpose are the only kind truly worth having

 

[ruminator]

pshaw!

nothing but?

thoughts without purpose are the only kind truly worth having

Well then, I certainly have a pshaw full of those.

I can sit and listen to a telephone ring until it doesn't ring anymore and I can do it without guilt. Friends treat me like a freak because I don't jump to the demand they see. I consider it a request to come into my home/life and not a demand for recognition


...much the same as some of the collections of random thoughts I have. Once in a while I feel like simply tossing a bunch of them into a pile on a page and let those who are interested make of them what they want.

Hey, I think I just did it again......habitual.

 

[bluerains]

dang...anna

just a quick go. Upon reading "Ange-ify" I figured I would give it a try, Annarate it.




a lot lost in translation, I know, I did it quickly


embers glow deep red
fanned with puffs of breath,
scattered straw anticipates ignition

growing in intensity
on knees, eye level
soft whispers of exhalation
she lowers her body down
and sways in a pyrosensual dance

white cotton stretches as
lungs expand for one last dive
with an all consuming intensity
embers erupt into fire

she rocks back
licking her lips in satisfaction
flames tongues flicker
in their turn to dance
her body to ignition

ANNerate ... the flow is different and the meaning ,,,but I love the way you reframed the words...I love them both...

just in a different way..I have always taken the path of least resistance...one of my failings and strengths..tis why I don't voulenteer to do reviews..I would never read the long prose much maybe just to overview it..and it wouldn't be fair to the poet...
great work here all...

 

[ruminator]

<clip>

.and it wouldn't be fair to the poet...

<clip>

Nothing is ever fair to the poet.... ...good morning blue

 

[bluerains]

cheers !!

Nothing is ever fair to the poet.... ...good morning blue

"Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not."
Oscar Wilde

 

[WickedEve]

I have not read all the comments yet, so I may be repeating what others have already said. You seem to be a good writer. The poem reads like prose--good prose. I'm curious... when you read your own poem, does it read like prose or poetry to you?

 

[ruminator]

"Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not."
Oscar Wilde

If life were fair we would have very little to write about.

 

[ruminator]

I have not read all the comments yet, so I may be repeating what others have already said. You seem to be a good writer. The poem reads like prose--good prose. I'm curious... when you read your own poem, does it read like prose or poetry to you?

It wasn't written as a poem particularly. It was written in an undetermined way as a collection of thoughts to express an alternate idea of fanning the flames. I do that with posts here because I like to write. If I attempt to write poetry and it misses the mark, it can be disappointing. If a post is not well received or otherwise passed over then the effect is less <grin> traumatizing.

When the subject of form and content came up I thought it would be interesting to see if this style fell into any category in the way of form.

I like all of them but I think it also shows that the container of the form helps shape the content's impression.


I don't know the difference between prose and poetry. That's why I'm here and that's why I ask so many questions.

 

[WickedEve]

I don't know the difference between prose and poetry. That's why I'm here and that's why I ask so many questions.

Ah.
One thing I hope you never do is write down a few sentences, a paragraph, and give them line breaks to look like a poem. lol "Poets" do that and the results are... amusing. And I'm not saying you did that with your poem/prose. What you wrote wasn't quite prose poetry. It's more like poetic prose. Anyway, ask Ange, and a few other good poets, whatever you want to know, and you can't go wrong.

 

[ruminator]

Ah.
One thing I hope you never do is write down a few sentences, a paragraph, and give them line breaks to look like a poem. lol "Poets" do that and the results are... amusing. And I'm not saying you did that with your poem/prose. What you wrote wasn't quite prose poetry. It's more like poetic prose. Anyway, ask Ange, and a few other good poets, whatever you want to know, and you can't go wrong.

Thanks. I have and I will. Ange and many others have been very helpful.

I also enjoy playing with a wide variety of styles or formats. Sometimes I get the impression that I might be judged (for lack of a better word) by something I've done that is seen to the exclusion of other work.

I'm the kid that kept jumping off of higher roofs until I eventually got hurt. Each jump was a new learning experience though.

 

[WickedEve]

Thanks. I have and I will. Ange and many others have been very helpful.

I also enjoy playing with a wide variety of styles or formats. Sometimes I get the impression that I might be judged (for lack of a better word) by something I've done that is seen to the exclusion of other work.

I'm the kid that kept jumping off of higher roofs until I eventually got hurt. Each jump was a new learning experience though.

Try everything! It doesn't matter at first if you're successful with the form or not. Push yourself. Everything I write is not successful. I like to keep reaching and trying different styles and forms just to see what I'm capable of writing. I could play it safe and offer an audience satisfying poetry, but I don't always. I do get comments on occasional about a particular poem not being "my style." Well, good! You'll be told to find your own voice when it comes to writing poetry. Do it. Then put that voice away for a spell and find another one and another one. It's great when others can recognize your work and say, "Hey, that's a ruminator!" but it's even more satisfying when readers find a piece that's excellent and then be amazed that you wrote it. "Wow. That ruminator is so versatile." Now, do a terzanelle! God, I love that form!

 

[bluerains]

yes...so I

Ah.
One thing I hope you never do is write down a few sentences, a paragraph, and give them line breaks to look like a poem. lol "Poets" do that and the results are... amusing. And I'm not saying you did that with your poem/prose. What you wrote wasn't quite prose poetry. It's more like poetic prose. Anyway, ask Ange, and a few other good poets, whatever you want to know, and you can't go wrong.

already advised he ask you or ange on the ability to take out words to be more effective...I think ,,you and neo really are the best at getting into the marrow of a poem and exposing its roots in a small space...amazing...stuff...

 

[WickedEve]

already advised he ask you or ange on the ability to take out words to be more effective...I think ,,you and neo really are the best at getting into the marrow of a poem and exposing its roots in a small space...amazing...stuff...

I found some of my teen poems from 98 years ago or maybe 20 or 25 years... lol I noticed some of them were skinny as all get out. So, I'm not surprised now when I write the lean stuff. I don't like word clutter. Though, I have been guilty of cutting to the bone too much. But look at Ange's work. Her poetry seems... um... plump, yet there are no wasted words. Now, I do have some poems from a few years ago that I could edit now. I need to chop off some stuff like "the, it's," too many words like that. And I don't like adjective laden poetry.

 

[WickedEve]

Here's a poem from a couple of years ago that I'd like to share. It's a mediocre, flawed poem, but has potential. What I really want to share is one of the comments it received.

it's rain and dreary,
the slush and bone chill.

it's the weather,
sometimes the whether.

whether I'll tremble you
now other whispers reach you,
after the sky falls with new love.

outside is slick
and I shiver
and it's blue all around.


good poetry
01/23/04 by Senna Jawa in sqrt(-1)
Nice.

In future you may avoid flat words which do not carry meaning nor poetry, like "it's" and "is" or "sometimes". Instead of "sometimes" you could have something more concrete, for instance "on Sundays". Your poem is nice, hence don't rush with editing (if at all then only when the changes are convincing).

After that comment, I began to cut to the bone even more. He is absolutely right. The first two strophes, for example, would read much better written this way:

rain and dreary,
slush and bone chill:
the weather,
sometimes the whether.

(I have to work on a good replacement for "sometimes.")

 

[PatCarrington]

Here's a poem from a couple of years ago that I'd like to share. It's a mediocre, flawed poem, but has potential. What I really want to share is one of the comments it received.

it's rain and dreary,
the slush and bone chill.

it's the weather,
sometimes the whether.

whether I'll tremble you
now other whispers reach you,
after the sky falls with new love.

outside is slick
and I shiver
and it's blue all around.


good poetry
01/23/04 by Senna Jawa in sqrt(-1)
Nice.

In future you may avoid flat words which do not carry meaning nor poetry, like "it's" and "is" or "sometimes". Instead of "sometimes" you could have something more concrete, for instance "on Sundays". Your poem is nice, hence don't rush with editing (if at all then only when the changes are convincing).

After that comment, I began to cut to the bone even more. He is absolutely right. The first two strophes, for example, would read much better written this way:

rain and dreary,
slush and bone chill:
the weather,
sometimes the whether.

(I have to work on a good replacement for "sometimes.")

are you open to dissenting opinion.

 

[ruminator]

Try everything! It doesn't matter at first if you're successful with the form or not. Push yourself. Everything I write is not successful. I like to keep reaching and trying different styles and forms just to see what I'm capable of writing. I could play it safe and offer an audience satisfying poetry, but I don't always. I do get comments on occasional about a particular poem not being "my style." Well, good! You'll be told to find your own voice when it comes to writing poetry. Do it. Then put that voice away for a spell and find another one and another one. It's great when others can recognize your work and say, "Hey, that's a ruminator!" but it's even more satisfying when readers find a piece that's excellent and then be amazed that you wrote it. "Wow. That ruminator is so versatile." Now, do a terzanelle! God, I love that form!

Which voice should I use to speak
these words too carefully chosen.
Give thought to impending impression

Basket of tales creatively woven
to carry my soul's worth I'm aware
these words too carefully chosen.

My voices lurk deep in their lair
silently arguing their known rotation
to carry my soul's worth I'm aware


Others guard with biased perception
seeing themselves come abruptly alive
silently arguing the known rotation

Help the weakest voice to survive
impending onslaughts from those
seeing themselves come abruptly alive

from the writer's wisdom that grows.
Which voice should I use to speak
impending onslaughts from those
Give thought to impending impression



,....it was worth a shot. Is that close to what it should be? (those are confusing, aren't they?)




edited for correction.

 

[WickedEve]

are you open to dissenting opinion.

Nope! lol
Say whatever you have to say, you big mouth poet. Hey, I just took a walk, and wrote this in my head, and ran home to write it down, and damn, I couldn't remember it all, but it is to the BONE.

sweet disease

a barbed wire malady,
though, statue moments
bring on gardens,
and she is marbled well.

movement pricks her.


(needs maybe a tad more.)

 

[WickedEve]

Which voice should I use to speak
these words too carefully chosen.
Give thought to impending impression

Basket of tales creatively woven
to carry my soul's worth I'm aware
these words too carefully chosen.

My voices lurk deep in their lair
silently arguing their known rotation
to carry my soul's worth I'm aware


Others guard with biased perception
seeing themselves come abruptly alive
silently arguing the known rotation

Help the weakest voice to survive
impending onslaughts from those
seeing themselves come abruptly alive

from the writer's wisdom that grows.
My voices lurk deep in their lair
impending onslaughts from those
to carry my soul's worth I'm aware



,....it was worth a shot. Is that close to what it should be? (those are confusing, aren't they?)

Very good. The last stanza should have the first and third line of the first stanza. Line 1 from Stanza 1 should be Line 2 of Stanza 6 and L3 of S1 should be L4 of S6. And L2 of S5 should be L3 of S6 and the first line of stanza 6 should be a new line.

 

[WickedEve]

By the way, Pat, incase you're not use to my sense of humor, I really do want to hear your opinion. So, tell me now!

 

[ruminator]

Very good. The last stanza should have the first and third line of the first stanza. Line 1 from Stanza 1 should be Line 2 of Stanza 6 and L3 of S1 should be L4 of S6. And L2 of S5 should be L3 of S6 and the first line of stanza 6 should be a new line.

I didn't scroll high enough to get back to the first lines. Just for kicks I went back and made the changes without changing anything else. It works somewhat.



Thanks for the help.

 

[PatCarrington]

Nope! lol
Say whatever you have to say, you big mouth poet. Hey, I just took a walk, and wrote this in my head, and ran home to write it down, and damn, I couldn't remember it all, but it is to the BONE.

sweet disease

a barbed wire malady,
though, statue moments
bring on gardens,
and she is marbled well.

movement pricks her.


(needs maybe a tad more.)

that is a very good poem, considering you were out of breath.

i don't mean to be too big a mouth. you are giving very good advice, it seems to me.

i just wanted to say that this statement, which you praised ( with the inference that it was given to you when you were unsure of your voice ):

In future you may avoid flat words which do not carry meaning nor poetry, like "it's" and "is" or "sometimes".

...seems to me to be a poor thing to tell a still-searching writer.

to me, it is too closed-minded and one-sided, as if there is only one way to write poetry, to carry much merit at all.

to infer, or downright say, that the words "it's" or "is" or "sometimes" can never carry either meaning or poetry is such a blanket statement, and the untruth of it should be obvious, i would think.

i just don't think statements that are in concrete like that - to say never use rhyme, or always use punctuation, etc., would be the equivalent - carry good counsel.

poetry is a creamy activity, i think, that changes faces from poem to poem and poet to poet.

(and i liked your weather/whether poem better before the rewrite - it seemed more human and emotional, less robotic, less cold, in a situation than is made of flesh and not machine.)

that's all....i guess that was big-mouthed, wasn't it.

 

[PatCarrington]

By the way, Pat, incase you're not use to my sense of humor, I really do want to hear your opinion. So, tell me now!

i knew that, evie.

 

[flyguy69]

....
poetry is a creamy activity, i think, that changes faces from poem to poem and poet to poet.

....

No wonder it's so good with coffee!