Story Discussion: March 12, 2006. "Poly Polly" by Penelope Street.

[Penelope Street]

Penelope has expressed her intent behind Polly a few times in this thread, and made it clear that there is a lot more to her than meets the eye. Her frusteration is in bringing that out in a manner which is more obvious/less offensive to the audience.

Frustration is so the perfect word. *sigh* Perhaps I really should start with the scene where Polly sees Eddie with the boy she wants. There's instant conflict and the reader can see her pain and confusion first, and maybe, just maybe, understand her bluster better?

 

[sincerely_helene]

Well, I have to repectfully disagree with your disagreement. No disrespect to Penny, but if an author has to tell you outside the story that there's more to her character than what you see in the story, I'd say the author hasn't done a very good job of presenting a complex character.

But I'll take your word for it. Polly just doesn't work for me.She's one of the few females I've ever run across who actually repels me.

Well, I respectfully respect you mean no disrespect with regards to both your arguement and Penelope. You have been quite frank and very much on topic with your replies; admittedly so more than myself. I keep wanting to make it all work.

Please bare in mind, I'm still getting used to the discussion circle and the blunt tone of your responses honestly took me by surprise. It is not like you just found Polly merely physically unpalatable from a reader perspective, but you genuinely seemed to "hate" her to the point wanting nothing more to do with her or this thread-- yet something keeps compelling you to return. Penny, leave the poor guy alone already! But, seriously, I went back through a few of your previous comments only to find that we are essentially saying the same exact thing.

"Penny's done a terrific job of creating a clueless, man-hating character who uses sex to get back at the world. But once again, I have to ask: why? I like the idea of setting her up to be hurt, but quite honeslty, I'm not going to hang around that long."

"I don't know how important that crudeness is to her character, but my instinct is that if you could tone down that in-your-face trashiness without losing her frankness, you'd have a pretty fascinating character I might want to read about. As she is, she's just too ugly for me."

"I've been lurking on this one, wanting to see some other responses before I posted, because I'm one of the men Penny showed this story to who didn't care for Polly. That was almost a year ago, and I'll admit I've wondered about the story a few times since."

At one point, you seemed to almost feel Polly worthy of revival. What if Penelope used your suggestions? Also, how do you feel about the current accent and monologue style? I can't recall if you remarked on that. Though it didn't appeal to me sexually, it made her so unique and real that I nearly washed the drapes. Twice. With a lot of bleach.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Frustration is so the perfect word. *sigh* Perhaps I really should start with the scene where Polly sees Eddie with the boy she wants. There's instant conflict and the reader can see her pain and confusion first, and maybe, just maybe, understand her bluster better?

Wow... I'm such a crappy person to offer advice on writing (not a put down, I just think differently than others.)

I do adore the idea, though, and maybe if you were very descript about the encounter, you could probably attract two different audiences in one scene... which is what you wanted, right?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

At one point, you seemed to almost feel Polly worthy of revival. What if Penelope used your suggestions? Also, how do you feel about the current accent and monologue style? I can't recall if you remarked on that. Though it didn't appeal to me sexually, it made her so unique and real that I nearly washed the drapes. Twice. With a lot of bleach.

Yeah. my dislike of Polly bother me too, which is probably why I keep on coming back to her, the way you can't stop poking at a sore tooth. I mean, I have such respect for Penny as a writer that it really troubles me that I can feel so disconnected and and alienated from Polly. As I said, Penny showed this piece to me a year ago, and told me it was a pet project of hers and one she'd been working hard on, so I guess it means a lot to her.

I suppose on one level it's just a matter of personal taste. By chance, Penny's bundled toagther a whole lot of stylistic things I just don't personally like--writing in dialect, talking directly to the audience, dumbing-down and what I guess I would call narrative shallowness (describing only what's done and not what's felt.) And I admit, all of that is really my problem--just a matter of personal taste--and I'd dislike that in whatever kind of story that appeared in. If Polly were a male, I still wouldn't like her (him. Whatever.)

So it's hard for me to separate my own prejudices from any sort of literary judgment. And it's hard for me to suggest anything without suggesting that Penny change the whole premnise and goal of the story, which I really don't want to do.

I think my biggest problem with Polly is her crudeness, which I understand a lot of people find refreshing and amusing but which I just find personally offensive. I just don't like crude people. (Earthy is okay; honest and blunt and brutally frank is okay. But crude is just intentionally offensive, like seeing someone blow their nose on the sidewalk.) That's my biggest problem.

The other problem I have with her is that she seems so shalow and noive that I keep on asuming there's something wrong with her. I hate to say it, but she strikes me as mentally deficient, and so the sex she has smacks of sex with a retarded person, a person not entirely in possession of all her faculties. I know that's not Penny's intention, but I'm trying to give you an idea of the kind of visceral dislike she causes me. I keep on feeling like Charlie's taking advantage of the retarded girl.

I have nothing against knowing that sometimes a woman just wants to get dicked and is in it for nothing more that the sensations. In fact, that can be terribly arousing. But Polly's experience of sex seems so lizard-brain that I don't find it sexy at all. To me, it's like watching a ape masturbating in the zoo. It's more pitiful than anything else, and I have to look away. There's something not right about her.

Anyhow, whatever it is, I'm starting to think that it's more my problem than Penny's. I guess that in my own writing I'm going in a totally different direction from Polly. I'm kind of obsessed with the human and emotional meanings of sex, and that's all I look for anymore. But I seem to be in a minority on my antipathy towards Polly, so maybe it's best I just bow out and chalk it up to matters of taste and my own neuroses.

I wish you well with her, Penny, but I guess she's just not for me.

 

[Penelope Street]

I do adore the idea, though, and maybe if you were very descript about the encounter, you could probably attract two different audiences in one scene... which is what you wanted, right?

How different would the story be if Polly started something like this:

My sister is such a bitch! Slut's back there in her room right now with my boy. Ok, I guess he ain't mine really, but he should be! Not that I ain't never had a boy...

 

[Penelope Street]

Anyhow, whatever it is, I'm starting to think that it's more my problem than Penny's. I guess that in my own writing I'm going in a totally different direction from Polly. I'm kind of obsessed with the human and emotional meanings of sex, and that's all I look for anymore. But I seem to be in a minority on my antipathy towards Polly, so maybe it's best I just bow out and chalk it up to matters of taste and my own neuroses.

If so, you're part of a sizable minority and it's certainly my problem if I want the story to work for them too. I agree emotions are the key. If Polly's ever going to jump off the page for everyone I have to find a manner to convey the person behind her words and actions. At this point I think my love, myself, Polly, this thread, and a highlighter are all going on a road trip this summer. Please don't imagine for a moment I don't appreciate all the advice you've offered regarding a character you loath. If she's ever more than a beer coaster, you'll be be one of many I have to thank.

 

[sincerely_helene]

How different would the story be if Polly started something like this:

My sister is such a bitch! Slut's back there in her room right now with my boy. Ok, I guess he ain't mine really, but he should be! Not that I ain't never had a boy...

That certainly opens up windows of possiblity, in my opinion. It would serve to not only explain a little more of why Polly is the way she is, but there could also be potential voyeuristic/catfight/threesome scenario that might delight some of the more incestious readers. I could see Polly's competitive, insecure side trying to prove she can "outdo" Eddie, and just joining right on in. I don't know if that would be feeding into the hick stereotype too much, though.

If you didn't want to go that route, you could write it up as a prequel. Maybe Polly doesn't confront her sister at all, but watches from the door crack and is explaining to the audience what she witnessed. The details could be steamy enough to get readers going, but Polly's jealousy would still be apparent as she's speaking. (Example: "Not real sure what boys want with them monster boobs, anyway. Don't they git tired of being hit in the head when she's on top and things git all good like?")

It's hard for me to say for sure unless I seen the finished product, though. I'm not sure if you were meaning you would just change the intro, but then leave it at that, or if you were going to work it into a whole other story unto itself.

 

[Penelope Street]

It's hard for me to say for sure unless I seen the finished product, though. I'm not sure if you were meaning you would just change the intro, but then leave it at that, or if you were going to work it into a whole other story unto itself.

I was thinking to use the "My sister is such a bitch" opening as a different intro to this piece.

If you didn't want to go that route, you could write it up as a prequel. Maybe Polly doesn't confront her sister at all, but watches from the door crack and is explaining to the audience what she witnessed. The details could be steamy enough to get readers going, but Polly's jealousy would still be apparent as she's speaking. (Example: "Not real sure what boys want with them monster boobs, anyway. Don't they git tired of being hit in the head when she's on top and things git all good like?")

What you describe is pretty much what I envisioned for chapter two, 'Poly Polly and the Missing Vibrator', but I'm also considering simply starting with this chapter instead.

Oh- decisions, decisions.

 

[sincerely_helene]

I was thinking to use the "My sister is such a bitch" opening as a different intro to this piece.



What you describe is pretty much what I envisioned for chapter two, 'Poly Polly and the Missing Vibrator', but I'm also considering simply starting with this chapter instead.

Oh- decisions, decisions.

I'm personally partial to the prequel (yuck, I just spat all over my monitor) idea because it offers more insight into where Polly's insecurities stem from. Course, I could understand you wanting to place it in in chapter 2 to avoid the work of having to snip and alter a bunch of the intro in the original.

What ever you decide, I have the utmost confidence you will concoct something wonderful!

 

[Penelope Street]

I'm personally partial to the prequel (yuck, I just spat all over my monitor) idea because it offers more insight into where Polly's insecurities stem from. Course, I could understand you wanting to place it in in chapter 2 to avoid the work of having to snip and alter a bunch of the intro in the original.

If I decide I need to throw the original away and start from scratch, that's what I'll do. It's less than a quarter of what the final story would be, so starting over wouldn't be that big of a deal.

What ever you decide, I have the utmost confidence you will concoct something wonderful!

Thank you.

 

[Joesephus]

I wrote "Poly Polly" almost two years ago. I understand it's really not a story at all; it's more of a character introduction. That's really the purpose of the piece. If it's amusing and/or arousing too, that's a bonus. At the time I wrote "Poly Polly", I had in mind to make a series out of it, but other stories kept stealing my attention, go figure.

Okay, these are personal responses. The writing style was smooth and easy. The voice was interesting and the topic of great personal interest. I found the accent to be distracting, but that's probably as much a language difficulty as anything. I also thought it "changed" as the story went on. I think it got heavier and thicker.

I'm extremely interested in female sexual responses. However, I'm much less interested in "sluts" than seduction. I think that's because "sluts" seem to mirror male behavior and doesn't match my experience. Granted I'm only 24 and from a different culture but my experience has always had at least some nod toward seduction. Once we got into it I loved a very responsive woman, but... as I said that could be cultural.

For that reason, I probably wouldn't be as interested in Polly as others.

Another reason this piece has sat gathering cyber dust for so long is the reactions of the handful of men I've asked to read it. None of them found Polly engaging. Polly is supposed to be everything she rants about, a superficial slut. She really doesn't like men, even though she is pretty much everything she bitches about regarding males. I'm comfortable that I got her character as I intended, a flawed character to be sure. What I'm not certain about is whether she's a character worthy of the time it would take to tell her story.

I think that's right, what I did find engaging was her detailed descriptions of her reactions. It is not easy to find a woman who can tell you what she feels, as opposed to giving directions. At the time they don't want the distraction and later... perhaps the lack the words or interest.

Thus my first questions would be: Would a series involving this character be of interest? Do you care what happens to Polly?

You might want to answer these before reading the my future plans for Polly.

I find it much more interesting to read your descriptions of the character than to read her. I suppose that IF I were still on the market, a woman like that might have been able to get me into her bed... but it would have been before I knew I had other choices. My culture has legal prostitution, and some of my earliest experiences were in brothels. Frankly, although I had decided years ago that I'd never go to a brothel again, if I had to choose between Polly and a prostitute, there would be no choice.

Last but not least, I didn't see your character quite the way you did. I think it more a case of degree, but I also so confidence almost to the point of arrogance.

I hope this helps... oh, and I should say that the sex scene was very hot. I just can't write good sex scenes, so my stories tends to not have many.

 

[Joesephus]

Cute. Real Cute.



Are you just being nice about the sex being hot? I ask because all of the men that read the piece have had an adverse reaction to Polly, but half of them still indicated they'd want to, uh, 'meet' her anyway, which left me shaking my head a bit.


This seems to be the prevailing masculine reaction. I'm still wondering if the underlying reason isn't something Helene touched on earlier.

I think that Helen has a point that men want to think that even if they're "using" the woman, it still means something to her. Here I think that Polly is making clear that she's "using" the men not the other way around.

Also, I tend to take early statements about the character to be true. Thus I accepted that Polly liked herself. I also agree that the Poly was out of character and it's why I think I thougth her accent got thicker.

 

[Joesephus]

How different would the story be if Polly started something like this:

My sister is such a bitch! Slut's back there in her room right now with my boy. Ok, I guess he ain't mine really, but he should be! Not that I ain't never had a boy...

Okay, I just saw this was a discussion from last spring. So, I don't know if anyone is still looking. However, something like this would bring a very different light to the character for me. Right now she sounds like a person who wants sex the same way a male suffering from testosterone posioning wants sex. If you shove some sib/boyfriend trouble it adds a tremendous dept to the story. You'd need to modify her character just a little, so a tad more fear/reluctance or confidence/arrogance either would work.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Joe,

Thank you for taking the time to read my story. It's still amazing to me how the reaction to this story is drawn so clearly along gender lines. Obviously, I'm just not reaching male readers with the Polly I want to present. *sigh* Although I want to start writing stories featuring characters with flaws, I think I bit off more than I could chew with Polly. Who knows, maybe in a year or ten I can do Polly justice, but for now I'm going to focus on stories with less complex characters.

Thanks Bunches,
Penny

 

[Joesephus]

Now you know...

how I feel about Matt!

 

[Penelope Street]

how I feel about Matt!

lol. I already knew.