sub talk

[Shadowsdream]

I am quite shy and am just learning to accept my submissive nature ... due to a combination of both these things i do not have personal acquaintances/friends of similar leanings to confide in. But reading here and joining into conversations as i feel comfortable has been wonderful in terms of learning to accept myself and my needs without harshly judging myself.

Hello A's Sweet Baby

Thank you for adding your voice to the conversation. By adding your voice and asking questions you will pick up friends that you can share private moments with when you do have the need.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I think this what I meant that there are topics what you just should discuss with your Master / Mistress. Especially when it is not about you.
I think he should ask you beforehand if he could discuss this with somebody else.
I would have been angry too.


Anna Sue

Actually he was drawn into the conversation by the Domme as She did not speak good english and wanted to help Me. They both had My best interests at heart and yet they now know to leave Me to make My own judgement calls.

Now She and I talk about him!...language is not an issue and We have a great time.

 

[Miss Diva]

I am also knew at this submissive/slave/pyl stuff. And I have not shared any of my journey with anyone I know. On this board I have shared some of it and read alot (so this board is a Godsend to me, it is invaluable and the posts from everyone has really helped me understand and appreciate the life and responsibility of a pyl and PYL). And I appreciate how lucky I am to have a found a considerate PYL who is also teaching me.

If I did have a problem with my PYL I would probably ask here first. I would need to edit it if I spoke with my r/l friends and family. They would freak out!!

So my big thanks to everyone on this board.

 

[Anna Sue]

Actually he was drawn into the conversation by the Domme as She did not speak good english and wanted to help Me. They both had My best interests at heart and yet they now know to leave Me to make My own judgement calls.

Now She and I talk about him!...language is not an issue and We have a great time.

I know about language barrier, some thinks come just out the wrong way.
But this is more difficult in the Internet world as in the real world a face-to-face conversation is so much easier.

So long you are okay about the outcome where everything is okay.

I just think that some things shouldn’t be discuss with a third person but then it all deepens on the subject and so much more.
Not an easy answer for the question.

Anna Sue

 

[snowy ciara]

Should subs or slaves have others to turn to when they are feeling disappointed with the level of Domination they are receiving...or if they have fears that they are not yet comfortable to share with their Owner?


Anyone care to begin a new conversation?

I don't have a PYL yet, (which is why I sort of pester the Ones here. Thanks again!) but I can't see me not talking to my pyl buds about stuff. I'm with graceanne, I think. I don't want to bug anyone important with small stuff and ventage; and when I do have something big to say/ask/bring to the table, I want to have my thoughts and ideas properly organized. I've gone to the subs here, especially the more experienced ones, when I have questions or concerns. I also use them to bounce questions and ideas off of. Several of the questions that I've brought to the PYLs here have gone through the subs, first. It's not a question of respecting or dis-respecting the PYLs; it's that I'm trying to look at stuff from several different point of views, and I don't want to waste Your time if I can help it.

I can see me doing this with a PYL someday. I mean, trying to sort out the small stuff myself and taking it to them when I can't manage it myself. But the big stuff, even though I may talk it over with a pyl friend, I would bring it to my PYL. But a big part of the reason that I'd discuss it with my peers is that I'm too easily intimidated. I sort of have to plan what I'm going to say cause I'll forget.

So I'm wondering. When a sub has a big old issue, and they don't come to you first, does it bother You? Should they come to You first with an issue, or do You prefer that they have a polished presentation, so to speak?

 

[duckie50]

I need to talk to people I can trust. Sometimes, I need NOT to talk to someone, even if I trust him/her, because he/she is just too close to the situation.

The only thing I can't do, it seems, is shut up when something is important to me. That doesn't mean I'm indiscreet -- just the opposite, but that I find someone I can rely upon for discretion and understanding.

I've not had a dom/domme, IRL or virtual, as much as I've thought about it, but I think that there would be times when I would need to talk to someone besides him/her about issues. It wouldn't be a lack of trust of him/her but rather just an acknowledgement that he/she is too close to the issue to give me the support or advice I would need.

 

[Never]

Should subs or slaves have others to turn to when they are feeling disappointed with the level of Domination they are receiving...or if they have fears that they are not yet comfortable to share with their Owner?

I don't think one's master/mistress needs to listen to all the crap a sub thinks up. No matter how good or healthy a relationship it's beneficial to have someone else to talk with. This is true for vanilla and BDSM relationships. The problem for subs (and tops) is finding a third party who won't be judgmental and decide you're nuts for engaging in BDSM in the first place.

 

[dolf]

~~smile~~ hello dolf and thank you for joining in the conversation. Sharing your journey with your friends also makes you feel less alone in a BDSM sense as well perhaps?

please forgive the briefness of the last reply...was in a bit of a rush...

it's imposiible to make nilla friends understand how it feels to desire to submit...without my sub friends i would never have unraveled my thoughts enough to understand and accept them and i would go insane.

it's so against what society and the media says i should want and it can be very lonely and isolating. i've had people say i'm being groomed for abuse when i chat to doms online. i've had people laugh in my face because i'm not insecure enough to need the nurturing i feel i need. mostly people think it's just a game and i'm a pain junky.

talking things through helps us to get our thoughts organised before we tackle a problem...it's good to be able to do this with an outside person who won't be hurt, offended or angry at anything that is said before talking through the real issue with the Dom/me.

also...it's fun! sitting in a cafe talking about trying not to giggle when you're being tied up, shopping for shoes and talking about canes V straps...it makes me happy. it makes me more content. i can't see myself being with a Dom/me who didn't want that for me.

nobody, not even the best, most experienced Dom/me can be everything! it's an unfair pressure to put on them to expect that. only a sub really knows what it's like to be a sub. sharing our experience and wisdom surely makes us better subs

graceanne & shy

 

[Netzach]

sounds like fundamental relationship stuff is in the mix here too. I want any partner to have friends and outside interests and a network of some kind.

I want serious relationship issues to be brought up with me, first, but I fully expect people to draw on their networks, it's a very human response. I bounce things off of others all the time.

I have to trust that my sub/partner is smart enough to entrust these conversations to the RIGHT people, however. If I had someone in my service who was not the best judge of friends I might have other rules.

 

[Desdemona]

I do tend to talk to others that I trust. I belong to a submissive discussion group and have learned much from their perspectives on a whole variety of issues. At the same time, I agree, there are issues that need to be discussed within the confines of the relationship. To take them outside is a violation of the trust between you, IMO. So, I think networking and outside discussions are good as long as you exercise judgement about what is shared.

 

[MissTaken]

Should subs or slaves have others to turn to when they are feeling disappointed with the level of Domination they are receiving...or if they have fears that they are not yet comfortable to share with their Owner?

I believe that there is no right or wrong answer because each scenerio will come with its own variables.

Personally when I choose lifetime subs or slaves or long term play partners they MUST all be so comfortable with each other that they do have a friend to turn to when they need a word of comfort or laughter from outside of their primary relationship with Me.

Anyone care to begin a new conversation?

I think it is important for people to have other people to share their joys and disappointments with, whether work related or BDSM related.

Perhaps, though, in the context of the question, it is important for a submissive to have friends with whom they can talk, rant, vent or otherwise work through issues that arise in their D/s relationship before approaching the Dominant.

Also, does anyone agree that early on in a relationship, it may be difficult or even unwise for a sub to approach a Dominant simply because they may feel that the Dominant's POV is biased; they may feel pressured rather than supported?

Or not. Just rambling to that end.

Further, I have a number of wonderful real life friends who are submissives. In times of discord, I generally will listen, provide carefully worded support and am very cautious that my own support does not interfere with the relationship at hand. Typically, this support presents itself as basic Communication Skills 101.

I then, am direct with the Dominant concerning my own interest in the submissive and my own involvement. The other day, a friend introduced me to her new Dominant. I explained to him that I am her friend and would never intentionally do anything or say anything to interfere with her training. In the event that he felt I had, he should feel free to approach me about his concerns.....and if not, then suffer the frustration with no resolution.

Yep, we all need friends.

 

[sunfox]

sounds like fundamental relationship stuff is in the mix here too. I want any partner to have friends and outside interests and a network of some kind.

I want serious relationship issues to be brought up with me, first, but I fully expect people to draw on their networks, it's a very human response. I bounce things off of others all the time.

I have to trust that my sub/partner is smart enough to entrust these conversations to the RIGHT people, however. If I had someone in my service who was not the best judge of friends I might have other rules.

Netzach hit the nail on the head for me.. that's my point of view as well. If I have problems, I bring it up to C first, then my friends.. but if I just want to hash something out I've been thinking about, I frequently talk to my friends, chat it out, then talk to him once it's all straightened out in my head.

Friends are important to any person, to create a healthy support network and release of tension.

Nice thread, Shadowsdream.

 

[Shadowsdream]

So many additional responses to this wonderful conversations. I am always honored to have you all add such depth and authenticity to one of My threads and in fairness and kindness to all who have posted since My last response I am giving a blanket thank you rather than one at a time.

It is to save you from a page of Me Me Me ~~grin~~ with My av claiming the entire page!

I always expect (no not prefer) My subs and slaves to come to Me with the big problems that pertain directly to O/our relationship whether that be a feeling of abandonment or insecurity too the desire for more play or structure.

I prefer (no not expect) that they take most of their silliness to their sub and Dom/me friends and I make sure they have plenty of both in the real world and a few online as well.

Enlarging the BDSM community of My toys increases their comfort and allows them to never feel alone during My more public venues and responsibilities.

Do other Dominants here encourage and arrange such friendships for their submissives?

 

[Never]

Dolf:
" it's impossible to make nilla friends understand how it feels to desire to submit..."

Why are you trying to make your vanilla friends understand that? I'm not sitting around with my straight female friends trying to explain why breasts are best.

I don't believe that has much to do with the conversation, though. A vanilla doesn't need to know why you want to submit to lend an ear.

I admit that this is an ego thing for me as I'm as vanilla as can be. I still run into subs with real life experience who claim real submissives have no hard limits. I have trouble believing they are better listeners/advisors/conspirators than I simply because I don't share your kink.

 

[Silverlily]

Do other Dominants here encourage and arrange such friendships for their submissives?

I spoke to my pets last night and while one is not yet ready to move outside the circle we have created, the other would very much like to meet other subs. I arranged for him to email a submissive friend of mine to start the ball rolling. Both of them do have non-BDSM friends however.

I don't know why it didn't occur to me last night, but I have a few out of state sub friends that I just chat with. One is having a problem with shaving bumps, not something he necessarily needs to bother his Master over. Another is helping me find a particular style of heels in a larger size.

I believe community creates stability and should be encouraged.

 

[Aeroil]

I admit that this is an ego thing for me as I'm as vanilla as can be. I still run into subs with real life experience who claim real submissives have no hard limits. I have trouble believing they are better listeners/advisors/conspirators than I simply because I don't share your kink. [/B]

I think we've already covered the "real" submissives, dominants topic in quite a few other threads.... being made to play with another male would probably me my hard limit. Now, If I had a mistress that I loved very much, and she asked it of me, well I might...... I would probably quite literally be sick though, and feel very violated and be quite distraught for a long time afterwards, and doing something that emotionally damaging is, in my opinion, a terrible thing for a dom/me to do to their sub......
and that would be my view on hard limits......

 

[Netzach]

So many additional responses to this wonderful conversations. I am always honored to have you all add such depth and authenticity to one of My threads and in fairness and kindness to all who have posted since My last response I am giving a blanket thank you rather than one at a time.

It is to save you from a page of Me Me Me ~~grin~~ with My av claiming the entire page!

I always expect (no not prefer) My subs and slaves to come to Me with the big problems that pertain directly to O/our relationship whether that be a feeling of abandonment or insecurity too the desire for more play or structure.

I prefer (no not expect) that they take most of their silliness to their sub and Dom/me friends and I make sure they have plenty of both in the real world and a few online as well.

Enlarging the BDSM community of My toys increases their comfort and allows them to never feel alone during My more public venues and responsibilities.

Do other Dominants here encourage and arrange such friendships for their submissives?

I have a slave located in the DC area, and I'm actually encouraging him to join the organizations there and do some networking for me, be prepared to make some introductions when I come visit. Social skills are very important to me, and I try to push what seems like my sub introvert brigade a bit into that arena at times.

 

[BlueSugar]

My boyfriend became my Dominant so discussion of needs and wants is till informal and comfortable and free.
As for outside of M and I's relationship, it is difficult to find someone to talk to. I have a friend that enjoys S/m, and another who enjoys BDSM amongst other things (she is actually in the process of bringing her boyfriend into the kinky side, and hes enjoying it)
we talk, and talk freely ... but I lack an IRL person who is in the lifestyle who really understands some of my needs for 24/7 or a few days a week or certain things I *need* to do... my need to be submissive, to serve etc...

I found Lit, and sometimes I cry I'm so happy I have people to share moments and triumphs and ask questions. Lit has truely become a very special network for me.

I've reciently found a meet and greet close to my area, but they don't meet till Feb. and I'm only emailing on and off with the 'leader' of the group. I feel the need to prove myself to him though I'm basically a beginner and much much younger then he is (40 years about) ... it feels forced and I know the group will not become IRL friends I can talk to regularly bc of age differences and the travel between us. But then again I don't know... so...

I have M, my two friends and all of you ... and that, I am more then grateful for.

 

[shy slave]

please forgive the briefness of the last reply...was in a bit of a rush...

it's imposiible to make nilla friends understand how it feels to desire to submit...without my sub friends i would never have unraveled my thoughts enough to understand and accept them and i would go insane.

it's so against what society and the media says i should want and it can be very lonely and isolating. i've had people say i'm being groomed for abuse when i chat to doms online. i've had people laugh in my face because i'm not insecure enough to need the nurturing i feel i need. mostly people think it's just a game and i'm a pain junky.

talking things through helps us to get our thoughts organised before we tackle a problem...it's good to be able to do this with an outside person who won't be hurt, offended or angry at anything that is said before talking through the real issue with the Dom/me.

also...it's fun! sitting in a cafe talking about trying not to giggle when you're being tied up, shopping for shoes and talking about canes V straps...it makes me happy. it makes me more content. i can't see myself being with a Dom/me who didn't want that for me.

nobody, not even the best, most experienced Dom/me can be everything! it's an unfair pressure to put on them to expect that. only a sub really knows what it's like to be a sub. sharing our experience and wisdom surely makes us better subs

graceanne & shy

x

 

[dolf]

Dolf:
" it's impossible to make nilla friends understand how it feels to desire to submit..."

Why are you trying to make your vanilla friends understand that?

i don't...that's my point!

i've told my sister about my need to submit but i know she will never understand it...she's asked me to explain it but it can't be explained.

 

[garylee]

friends for subs?

i know there ...are...indeed.....a lot of subs/slaves out there in need of someone to turn to.
i myself have had online people to talk to and weigh things out.
i'd say yes........everyone needs a friend.......

subs--slaves--dommes--doms..

we are only human,............right?
garylee

 

[silver_inari]

Should subs or slaves have others to turn to when they are feeling disappointed with the level of Domination they are receiving...or if they have fears that they are not yet comfortable to share with their Owner?

I believe that there is no right or wrong answer because each scenerio will come with its own variables.

Personally when I choose lifetime subs or slaves or long term play partners they MUST all be so comfortable with each other that they do have a friend to turn to when they need a word of comfort or laughter from outside of their primary relationship with Me.

Anyone care to begin a new conversation?

Nobody can exist in an isolation. And really, it is not healthy, I think. If someone is not happy with the level of domination they are getting, ideally they should discuss it with their top, but it is also good to have a sounding board in the form of another sub. Sometimes verbalizing something to someone in a similar situation can help you work your mind around your problem, be it a real problem or a perceived problem.

 

[Sodality]

Sub Talk....2 Cents...



New to lit, far from new to the lifestyle.

Once apon a time in Chicago there was a flourishing D/s community. The submissives(mostly female) were a tight, close nit group, Dominats be they male or female, they presided over the community much the way royalty would preside over a kingdom, with one difference, these "Royals" they protected each and every sub, from the newest of the new, to the most well known well respected slave/subs.

This was about 6 years ago, there were events we all went to in the different suburbs, we dined out together, we clubbed together on the weekends, much like cheers everybody knows your name. If you were a single sub, or unescorted but allowed to attend the weekend's club, there was never a question of people looking over you. You had "sisters" and "brothers" we really cared about eachother. We raised money if someone needed expensive surgery, we helped out consoled, mourned and celebrated together.

The subs talked oh man we talked and talked and talked...never once did anyone say anything bad about any Dominant or another sub. It was amazing, it was when we all had a "home" in the lifestyle. We were all one Dom and sub alike.

So what happened you ask? It started with the competition in the city, a new club opened. It was bigger, cleaner, newer, but..It was more expensive, and also very very elite. Anyone who was anyone went there and was a paying member.....

After that, the club we had all started out with had difficulties. The management had problems with the city, time and time again. The community scattered to the four winds, some went to the new club which closed and re-opened, some went private, some just vanished all together. Not related to the opening of the 2nd and 3rd clubs in the area it just kinda ...Happened.

After that I had gotten really sick, and dropped from sight, I remained close to a few people but not the amount of people I used to know. It's like being underwater, I'd pop my head up whenever I needed a breath of air....But I saw no one, except the few that remained close to me. Sure I heard about others talk to them on occasion, but those days, the days when Dominants made sure someone safe walked me back to my car when I went out alone, when subs hugged and kissed hello, when we all knew eachother and loved eachother.

We never thought it would end but just like the fabled tales of Camelot...All good things do come to an end. THis is something that is being worked at, to reunite the old people and the old ways, honor, integrity, no competition, it isn't a race, it isn't a competition at all. It's a way of life....Somewhere over the years this way of life had deteriorated, but Im gonna try to get it back, with the help of PyroDeamon, and a few others, We hope to rekindle that flame that had all of us warmed when the world, outside our lifestyle, treated us coldly.

 

[shy slave]

Bump


Just re-read this thread, and there are lots of interesting takes on this.

In my original reply, I never spoke about discussing anything with him.
I also mentioned a friend who was a medium had told me my ex was dangerous. I mistakenly took that to be due to the BDSM stuff. I was wrong. He was dangerous to my emotional well-being and I can see now that it was an abusive relationship. At the time it did not seem that way, but it was. He stopped talking to me about a month after I posted on here.

An update

Should subs or slaves have others to turn to when they are feeling disappointed with the level of Domination they are receiving...or if they have fears that they are not yet comfortable to share with their Owner?

A year on and I still talk to dolf about all things D/s. We still sit in cafes and giggle about ropes, chains, pain, shoes, handbags, men, cake and just about everything else. We have laughed and cried together (ok, I cried), not spoken for ages then when we re-meet its like it was just yesterday.
Online I talk to Gracie and a sub girlfriend who lives locally.

I have learnt to be be more open in one sense and more closed in another.

I am much more open about who I am and what I need in life with vanilla friends who ask. Listen in to any girl conversation, they do ask even without knowing what they are asking!!

I am more closed with some sub friends. I have realised that whilst its great to talk and giggle on a lighter level, anything else such as difficulties, queries or concerns may become more public than I had thought.
To give an example: I have a close friend who is a submissive, she attends the local munches. We have talked about many things but some things I have hesitated about; I know a great deal about the sex lives of some of the other people in the munch because she has told me 'in confidence.' So she is great to lift a low mood but secrets have a way of becoming open.

Over the past 12 months I have changed as a slave. I feel I have come a long way in my submission.

I continue to learn from people here and my views on things are more fluid than they were.

Andante and I discuss just about everything. Regarding difficulties I tend to read about it here, gather my thoughts, often in a somewhat messy manner, discuss them with Andante and discuss them with dolf or gracie. Then I come back here and read again
Andante has made me understand its ok to be open and talk about issues, nothing bad will happen from being honest.

But he does not replace girlfriends.
There is much to be gained from laughing, having fun, serious discussion and tears whether its online or in r/l with girls who have been there, heading there or done it twice over.

 

[dolf]