Submission: A Painful Introspection

[alexanna]

There is nothing to be ashamed of in being a sub. It doesn't make you less of a person or less worthy of attention/admiration or any of that shit.

All of the accomplishments you've made are still your own. You get the credit for them. You have been successful as a woman in attaining your career, having your family. Submissive is jut another part of you: a successful, wonderful woman.

Everyone has different facets of themselves and no single facet can undermine the overall worth of the gem. It's simply all just parts of the whole.

i would like being submissive to be something to be proud of rather than something to be "not ashamed" of. This, however, is highly difficult when the person dominating you is ashamed of it.

 

[panda7606]

To submit, Bunny has to care deeply for the other person in a romantic "aching to please" way. (Yes, love. I said it. Love.) Bunny has yet to have a man not take her for granted and treat her like yesterday's garbage. So this, I suppose, is where the cognitive dissonance comes in. I simply don't trust my own judgment.

As much as I take pleasure in BDSM, it is unfulfilling to me if I cannot share it with someone I love. And like you, I was once known for my horrible judgment when it came to men. I was extremely self destructive and habitually undermined myself and my own best interests. I was, quite literally, at the lowest point in my life when I finally met the right man. And I’m still not sure how I recognized it or how I managed to not screw it up. We started as just friends but he made me laugh and he made me feel good about myself in ways that no one ever had before. He helped me find value in myself and learn to appreciate myself for who I am. I had a lot of work to do on myself to get my head in the right place and it is work that is still not done but I now at least have the confidence that, with his help, I can do it. His trust in me, even when I am doubting myself, is helpful beyond measure.

Thank you.
So I tiptoe around, tentatively, because I don't trust my own judgment. How do you learn to trust yourself? I'm good at screwing things up monumentally, I'm afraid. Do you take a lot of time to yourself and not get involved in anything serious (which is what I've been doing, and I don't think it's working), or do you have to take calculated risks occasionally to learn to make better decisions, which, therefore, teaches you to trust your own judgment better next time?

This is going to sound like a totally lame answer but I think the answer is a little of both. Taking time to yourself can be very helpful in starting to sort out the things that go on in your head. But I don’t think it’s a long term answer. Don’t wait to be 100% sure of yourself because, if you’re anything like me, you never will be and if you wait for that you miss out on some good stuff. So eventually you have to take calculated risks. And set yourself up for success. Start with risks that aren’t all that risky. You’ll gain confidence in yourself from your success. And surround yourself with people who have confidence in you. You can draw strength off their belief in you. This doesn’t mean surrounding yourself with people who always tell you what you want to hear but it does mean distancing yourself from people who undermine your self confidence. They aren’t necessarily bad people and sometimes they even love us, but there are some people who have a unique ability to make us doubt everything about ourselves. You don’t have to totally cut people like this out of your life but get some space and learn to shut them down at the very start when they start to get critical in an unconstructive way.

… and, oh, God, hold your breath because she's about to launch into another one of those horse analogies.

Your horse analogy was perfect, thank you. It helped me clarify a couple of thoughts in my own head.

But, on the other hand, I think if three or four or a dozen people think someone's not an asshat, then that's more valuable than just ME saying someone's not an asshat.

Agreed. For the first time in my life all of my friends and family adore the man in my life and it feels really really good.

Bunny asked me to post to the list, so here goes...
I'm not sure if a compassionate sadist is a beast that exists, but my read is that's what you're looking for.

Actually, I think this post is spot on. At least for me. One day my Dom might spank me and pour hot wax all over me and another day he might bring me roses for no reason at all. Sometimes he does wickedly wonderful things with his knife. But the same man, on my birthday, woke up before me, snuck out to Starbucks and woke me with a mocha and pastries in bed. He always opens doors, carries bags and is all around chivalrous and considerate. But he has also left me black and blue and begging for mercy. He is ruthless and yet overwhelmingly romantic. And he makes me feel like I am the most important woman in the world. For him, I am the only woman in the world who is worth the energy and effort that is required to break me and tear me down to nothing and then build me back up again.

There’s more rattling around in my head but this post is long enough as it is and I don’t really have the rest of it all sorted out yet. Besides, it’s late and I need to get to bed.

 

[BiBunny]

Again, thanks to everyone who's offered me words of wisdom, advice, etc. I've got a lot of things to think about, which is why I haven't addressed everything yet, but I also feel a lot better now than I did even yesterday.

Also, this is for KC, who mentioned it, and for anyone else who might be able to shine some light on it...how do you *not* portray yourself as emotionally unavailable? Because I'd never thought about it before, but therein might lie, if not the full answer, at least a chunk of it.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

In the interest of brevity, I guess my thought is this: as a masochist, you're looking for a person who gets off on being cruel. But I think that side needs to be balanced with respect for you, and compassion for you. An intense scene should be left at the scene, and afterwards (and again, maybe I'm naive) you should be taken care of and looked after, physically and emotionally. Maybe that latter part is what you're missing. I'm not sure if a compassionate sadist is a beast that exists, but my read is that's what you're looking for.

I can just agree with you JamieB.

I have read Bunny's thread about how she wanna gets hurt emotionaly and I think it might be okay while the scene, but as for what happens after? I really do think she needs the loving caring person. The kind of animalistic beast who would use her and sate her masochist needs, but who would also love and treasure her to sate her emotional needs as well. But maybe I am wrong. No ofense Bunny.

I surely do need this caring sadist and YES, they do exist. THANKS GOD!! My Sir is just like that. Devious sadist to the core, but also very loving and caring person who would never really hurt me for real. Only while play and it would be only things he would know I crave and enjoy as well. He might make me cry, but I would still feel loved and treasured. He's awesome person and I can just say I wish he lived closer.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Again, thanks to everyone who's offered me words of wisdom, advice, etc. I've got a lot of things to think about, which is why I haven't addressed everything yet, but I also feel a lot better now than I did even yesterday.

Also, this is for KC, who mentioned it, and for anyone else who might be able to shine some light on it...how do you *not* portray yourself as emotionally unavailable? Because I'd never thought about it before, but therein might lie, if not the full answer, at least a chunk of it.

When I figure it out you will be the first to know how I did it lol.
Actually, I know the answer...I think.
Live life instead of running away from it and be true to yourself and who you are... jump in with both feet but not with blinders on... I don't know how to tell you to look in the damned mirror, see your worth, and behave the way someone like you should be. Oh, I just did, didn't I?

 

[BiBunny]

When I figure it out you will be the first to know how I did it lol.
Actually, I know the answer...I think.
Live life instead of running away from it and be true to yourself and who you are... jump in with both feet but not with blinders on... I don't know how to tell you to look in the damned mirror, see your worth, and behave the way someone like you should be. Oh, I just did, didn't I?

Sure did. But I think it's valuable advice (even if you did bring the frogs with you in your earlier post).

 

[Kajira Callista]

Sure did. But I think it's valuable advice (even if you did bring the frogs with you in your earlier post).

they follow me every where i go

​

 

[RJMasters]

One of the things I have seen in this thread in regards to sadists that trips a wire with me...

Perhaps it is just a semantic thing I don't know, but people have used the word compassionate sadist a few times now.

I think I would like to make a distinction here in that even though I have sadistic wants and needs, I do not have a need to be sadistic towards the relationship itself.

Physical, mental and emotional sadism for me can take place within a relationship but you don't fuck with the things which make up the essence of that relationship itself.

Just seems to me that if a sadist takes out his sadistic leanings on the relationship itself, redflags would be going off all over the place.

Perhaps I have inadvertantly stumble upon one of those things which make the distinction between those who can enjoy the fullness of sadism "within" a relationship that is strong enough to support it, and those who view relationships as nothing but playgrounds and treat the relationship itself as a fucktoy.

 

[EmpressFi]

One of the things I have seen in this thread in regards to sadists that trips a wire with me...

Perhaps it is just a semantic thing I don't know, but people have used the word compassionate sadist a few times now.

I think I would like to make a distinction here in that even though I have sadistic wants and needs, I do not have a need to be sadistic towards the relationship itself.

Physical, mental and emotional sadism for me can take place within a relationship but you don't fuck with the things which make up the essence of that relationship itself.

Just seems to me that if a sadist takes out his sadistic leanings on the relationship itself, redflags would be going off all over the place.

Perhaps I have inadvertantly stumble upon one of those things which make the distinction between those who can enjoy the fullness of sadism "within" a relationship that is strong enough to support it, and those who view relationships as nothing but playgrounds and treat the relationship itself as a fucktoy.

If I werent in love with my Master.. I think I'd have just fallen in love with you right here.. course the cowboy AV's dont hurt.

I was trying to bold the parts I agreed with, and realized it would be the whole thing.

 

[JamieB]

Couldn't have said it better

Just seems to me that if a sadist takes out his sadistic leanings on the relationship itself, redflags would be going off all over the place.

Perhaps I have inadvertantly stumble upon one of those things which make the distinction between those who can enjoy the fullness of sadism "within" a relationship that is strong enough to support it, and those who view relationships as nothing but playgrounds and treat the relationship itself as a fucktoy.

I think this is what I was trying to say, more or less, but you said it a lot better than I could have.

J

 

[MasterSnatch]

RJMasters has summed up things very well so far, you can tell when someone has gone through these things in the past or has accumulated knowledge based on the wisdom of their words and he has spoken very well on these issues so far. But that’s the tricky part isn’t it, we all must go through these trials and test to find out both ourselves and what we really want, not only that but when we do find that one person we need to determine what they want in the relationship, what they can give and the same for us as well. Normal relationships can be emotionally demanding enough, so how do the relationships we enjoy then demand? We must know or judge if we are capable in the first place, we must also know if the other person is too. That can be far easier said than done.

It’s why so many relationships you see and hear about have so many problems. I blame this on for the most part because when people act in a way they think is right or they believe they know what they are doing way too often they don’t. It’s only through time do they come to truly understand their place, what it is they desire and what they can give in a relationship. Once two people do they will find what they need most but it can be an experimentation process. It all comes back to what you want and need the most in life and what you’ll willing to do to achieve that.

Don’t give up hope, we all find our place eventually. More often than not we do when we least expect or are looking for it. One bit of wisdom I will give you is try to look at things in a different perspective than you are use to having, it’s not always easy to do but far too often we can come to some stunning revelations when we look through the eyes of another.

 

[YourCaptor]

I have only read the first page, but I wanted to mention a few things.

Firstly, its really cute how you refer to yourself in 3rd person. Other then that…

I don’t think it matters what you label yourself as, you obviously know very well what you want, so don’t try to limit yourself by what others want. Just the same, don’t force yourself to submit in a situation you know is not the one you want to submit in.

Love is a tricky thing, there are no rules to it, it happens when it wants and how it wants.

All I can say is, try to be open to people, anyone could be that special one, (even if you hate them at first, trust me on that). Be patient until love comes around to you.

There is a philosophy I came up with, and it works pretty well. “You can only gain as much as you give up”, if you want love, first you have to love.

So give it all up, smile when you meet people, greet them as you wan to be greeted, give them attention like you wanted it, and eventually somebody will return the favor.

Also, I believe love can last a lifetime with the same intensity as always. However one should keep in mind that love is like a living being, and their lifespans very depending on how much care you give them and how much stress you put them through.

 

[JamieB]

Lots of great stuff here

This is a great thread. A lot of great ideas have been shared here, from both sides of the power exchange. Kudos to Bunny for opening with such a personal, thought provoking and real post.

J

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Love, shmove...

I wanna beat some ass...
Set someone on fire...
Redden their skin with floggers...
Bind them and blindfold them and run a knife over their skin...
Drip hot wax on them and rub icecubes there and there
Zap them with the violet wand...
Poke them with needles...
Cut wicked designs in their skin...


But if I'm going to lick the blood off their skin we _will_ be fluid bonded...

Oh! Yes, I'm one of those mythical caring sadists. The kind who wants his toys to come back time and time again, and talk about what a nifty guy I am and how sweet and caring and nice.

It makes it SOOO much easier to recruit new victi... errrr.. uhhhmmmm... volunteers! *nodnodnod* Yes, caring sadist.

Happy well tended masochists make GREAT recruiters. That and janey likes to pimp me out for the stuff she doesn't enjoy!

 

[BiBunny]

Love, shmove...

I wanna beat some ass...
Set someone on fire...
Redden their skin with floggers...
Bind them and blindfold them and run a knife over their skin...
Drip hot wax on them and rub icecubes there and there
Zap them with the violet wand...
Poke them with needles...
Cut wicked designs in their skin...

Yes, well, that's all good, too. Bunny draws a huge line between bottoming and submitting.

But if I'm going to lick the blood off their skin we _will_ be fluid bonded...

Oh! Yes, I'm one of those mythical caring sadists. The kind who wants his toys to come back time and time again, and talk about what a nifty guy I am and how sweet and caring and nice.

It makes it SOOO much easier to recruit new victi... errrr.. uhhhmmmm... volunteers! *nodnodnod* Yes, caring sadist.

Happy well tended masochists make GREAT recruiters. That and janey likes to pimp me out for the stuff she doesn't enjoy!

So lemme see...mythical creatures...unicorns...dragons...caring sadists. *Sigh*

I live in the wrong part of the world, I see.

 

[LunarKitten]

Love, shmove...

I wanna beat some ass...
Set someone on fire...
Redden their skin with floggers...
Bind them and blindfold them and run a knife over their skin...
Drip hot wax on them and rub icecubes there and there
Zap them with the violet wand...
Poke them with needles...
Cut wicked designs in their skin...


But if I'm going to lick the blood off their skin we _will_ be fluid bonded...

Oh! Yes, I'm one of those mythical caring sadists. The kind who wants his toys to come back time and time again, and talk about what a nifty guy I am and how sweet and caring and nice.

It makes it SOOO much easier to recruit new victi... errrr.. uhhhmmmm... volunteers! *nodnodnod* Yes, caring sadist.

Happy well tended masochists make GREAT recruiters. That and janey likes to pimp me out for the stuff she doesn't enjoy!

Ah, man...to give birth and be able to play hard again.... *sigh*

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Ah, man...to give birth and be able to play hard again.... *sigh*

Pregnancy, especially the latter stages, is a bitch to go through. Not that I've been through it personally, but I have sired a child or two and lived through the pregnancies with my spouse...

 

[LunarKitten]

Pregnancy, especially the latter stages, is a bitch to go through. Not that I've been through it personally, but I have sired a child or two and lived through the pregnancies with my spouse...

LOL Survival is a good thing, we can be a little.....strange....around this time