Submission: Fears, obstacles and stumbling blocks...

[~ Emmeline ~]

One of the things the submissive I most recently played with spoke of as an initial fear was really just inadequacy and fear of failure. Not living up to what I wanted, not being able to do it, not being attractive enough or sexy enough for me, not enjoying what I did with her, and so on. This was way more an issue for her than safety.

It's a huge step... so I would be disinclined to believe anyone who claimed they weren't scared when they made it.

Thank you for that, FungiUg. I appreciate that you took the time to give your ideas from the viewpoint of a Dominant or top. It appears that you are quite knowledgeable with recognizing sources of anxiety.

While I cannot relate to all, the fear of failure to please - short or long term- is my shortcoming. How would you deal with a potential partner that had that fear? If all of the other variables worked for you, where would you draw the line and give up?

Or would you give up, depending on the potential that the relationship held?

Emme

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

<snip>
Is also great if you have a relationship going which gives you the feeling you will be accepted for your desire and willingness to submit first and foremost, and that any other difficulties will be worked on in a supportive way with your dominant. Is a lot about preparation and like minds I think.

C

Thank you, Catalina. Acceptance for your desire and willingness to submit speaks volumes!

Emme

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Re: Re: Re: Time takes Time

There wasn't any great leap of faith for me when I submitted to Him, no. I knew I wanted to submit to Him, for many reasons, the least of which is that He made me feel safe, and secure, and cherished. He gave me the consummate feeling that He had my best interests at heart.

We never have moved very quickly, and things of import have always been carried out in real-time, face to face. My submission was one of those things. I didn't just pick up the phone, or type it out on the screen. Of course, I'm not disrespecting those who do, but this is our way of dealing with our relationship. When He's eight hours away, things have to be thought about and weighed and patience IS a virtue.

~anelize

anelize, you speak as if submitting was somewhat easy with your Dominant. Did you have previous experience with a D/s relationship that helped you to understand what you needed from your Dominant, or what you were capable of offering?

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

I hope to return tomorrow to reply to more posts, but I need to get up in just a few short hours for family and work obligations. Thank you, again, to eveyone that has taken the time to post at this thread. I appreciate each and every opinion.

Emme

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... you may occasionally step on each others toes accidentally-but the music is golden- ...

Very well said.

Here's a toast that the music stays golden ... a true Pilsner and never panther piss.

 

[FungiUg]

While I cannot relate to all, the fear of failure to please - short or long term- is my shortcoming. How would you deal with a potential partner that had that fear? If all of the other variables worked for you, where would you draw the line and give up?

Or would you give up, depending on the potential that the relationship held?

There's always the option of backing out of a relationship. For me, there are two reasons I would consider doing that. The first being it's become obvious that one or more of the people in the relationship aren't getting what they want and need from the relationship -- it's holding back, rather than fulfilling.

The second reason I would leave a relationship is if there were elements of abuse involved. This could be self abuse (such as a substance addiction), financial abuse, mental/physical/spiritual/verbal abuse.

Having difficulties... isn't necessarily a reason to leave a relationship. It can lead to that -- if things fall apart to the extend that one or more of the people aren't getting anything positive out of the relationship. But by preference, I would rather deal with issues as they arise.

How would I deal with someone who had the fear of failure? Well, I guess it depended on how deeply that fear ran. If it was like personality challenging, then I'd suggest councelling. I'm not a practicing psychologist, so professional help is best when needed.

But if it's just a matter of reassurance and working with the person, well -- I can do that. Practicing patience is part of my "domly" thing, and I'm happy to work through issues, to provide reassurance, to talk about what's happening and what's working well.

Submissives are still people, they still have egos, feelings, thoughts, emotions, needs, wants. So providing feedback and reassurance to a submissive is part of any caring dominant's role.

So where would I draw the line and give up? Basically if the fear was to the point where the relationship just wasn't working at all (so back to the "one or more people not getting what they need and want from the relationship" issue.)

Hopefully in that verbose diatribe, I've managed to answer your questions!

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

I personally do not want my subs to try to interpret My desires. That is not their job. Their job is not to anticipate anything, they are to serve and obey.

It is a matter of taking direction, not passive aggressively doing that they think I want.

Thank you for posting, Ebonyfire.

I assume, though, that you wouldn't take on a submissive without discussing what might be required of them in their service to you.

If I misunderstood, and you were replying to FungiUg's post, my apologies.

Emme

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Just an aside to the point someone mentioned earlier about "knowing all of your Dominant's desires before submitting."

Sadly, Dominants are human as well. We make mistakes, we get things wrong. We also grow and change -- so desires aren't something that is fixed in concrete for a dominant.

Sometimes, we have problems outlining what our desires and needs are as well.

So between those two, I'd say it's impossible to know all of your prospective dominant's desires before you submit.

I may have missed this post, my most sincere apologies.

I understand what you're saying, that a dominant's desires might change with time. Out of curiosity, though, wouldn't it serve a dominant's best interests to pose the worst case scenario to 'weed out' those submissives that might say 'no way!' to some of his or her desires later on?

As a submissive, if you know the most radical things that may be asked of you - and feel as if you can deal with those desires - submission would be much easier.

Handing over complete trust, without having a basis to make decisions upon, is not something easy to do - no matter what the level of trust. Especially if you have never taken that step before.

Emme

 

[Desdemona]

I may have missed this post, my most sincere apologies.

I understand what you're saying, that a dominant's desires might change with time. Out of curiosity, though, wouldn't it serve a dominant's best interests to pose the worst case scenario to 'weed out' those submissives that might say 'no way!' to some of his or her desires later on?

As a submissive, if you know the most radical things that may be asked of you - and feel as if you can deal with those desires - submission would be much easier.

Handing over complete trust, without having a basis to make decisions upon, is not something easy to do - no matter what the level of trust. Especially if you have never taken that step before.

Emme

I'm not a dominant but I can't resist replying. How do you know your limits won't change? How do you know you won't develop a desire to do the new things introduced over time? People and relationships grow and change. Over the last couple of years my desires have certainly evolved. I participate in and enjoy activities that I found completely intimidating/terrifying before.

I don't know the full extent of what will be asked of me in the future. I only know that He would never abuse me and that we can work it out together. I'm keeping an open mind. I am trusting Him not to push me farther than I can go. I am trusting Him to introduce new things slowly so that we can both learn and adjust.

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

I'm not a dominant but I can't resist replying. How do you know your limits won't change? How do you know you won't develop a desire to do the new things introduced over time? People and relationships grow and change. Over the last couple of years my desires have certainly evolved. I participate in and enjoy activities that I found completely intimidating/terrifying before.

I don't know the full extent of what will be asked of me in the future. I only know that He would never abuse me and that we can work it out together. I'm keeping an open mind. I am trusting Him not to push me farther than I can go. I am trusting Him to introduce new things slowly so that we can both learn and adjust.

Hello Desdemona,

We have completed checklists, and have discussed them on several occasions. According to the checklists, I have very few limits. But they are only lists, and deal more with sexual and sensation issues. I have few, if any, sexual hangups. Sex is the easy part - it's the mental and emotional parts that concern me the most. Can I ever truly turn over my will, and my trust to another completely?

My Sir has indicated that he would be honored if I were to become his slave. That requires so much trust. Possibly more than I am able to comprehend at this time.

Although I haven't yet had a chance to reply to your last post, I loved what you had to say. (I'm trying to reply in order) You mentioned that you spent time living and feeling the part to adjust to it. I admire you for being able to share that with me. Thank you so much for that...

Emme

 

[cellis]

This thread is aimed towards submissives and slaves, but I welcome thought from others that have words of wisdom to offer.

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

Some food for thought...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?

Actually we started off with D/s in mind... we were not in love with each other so fear of ruining a relationship was not really an issue.

*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)

Absolutely this was a major fear of mine... not knowing Him and what He might require of me. With time I have learned to trust Him and His judgement, but in the beginning I found myself holding back. I am lucky because He was aware of this and was able to talk to me about it. In addition, I would have sabotaged the entire relationship early on due to my fears, but He would not allow it.

*Fear of placing your trust in even the most trustworthy hands?

A major issue for me, like others as well. I don't trust easily or well and people have to prove that they are worth of my trust. Much like my submission, it is not easily given. I can remember one day when He called me and said to me "Do you know how special you are to me?" I replied, "Some days I do and others I am not so certain." It was when I realized that He spoke the truth that I began to trust him in earnest.

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?

This was/is a fear I continue to deal with. I spent many years along rather than be caught in the trap of "giving up me to be in a relationship with you". While I want to please and serve and be all that I can be for Him, I don't want to give up me to do this.

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?

I have no fear of the title submissive... But we were attending a munch and sitting with a couple and the man introduced his partner as his slave. Himself introduced the two of us and I said that i was not His slave. He looked at me and said, "Not yet." It was at this point that I knew that the relationship would move in this direction someday. Is there fear in that level of commitment, oh yes... For now we are both content to have our relationship grow.

*Fear of finding out you may be fine with D/s in the bedroom, but can't carry it over into real life?

It does tend to touch all parts of our lives... There is no fear in being His.

*Fear of commitment based on your fears?

Since I am the original commitment phobic person, it has been a struggle not to sabatoge the relationship and even though I have tried, He will not allow that to happen.[/]

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?

n/a

*Fear of pain, or fear of being pushed to limits that you cannot tolerate ... and having to bow out of the relationship because you feel you can no longer meet the needs of your dominant?

If anything I was pushing Him to do more to push my limits... while He was willing only to go slow and carefully until He full knew me and my limits... There has yet to be a time when I think I can no long meet His needs... although there are times when He worries about meeting mine.

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?

I had very little fear of handing over the body... but the soul is another thing entirely... I guard myself closely... it has been a struggle to let go... there are days when I can accomplish this easily and there are days when there is no handing over the deepest parts of me... It is a fear I struggle with still. He is aware of it and helps me to get through those times when fear has the best of me.

*Fear that something is wrong with you because you are lovingly told you are ready to give your submission, but can't because you don't feel you are ready? Is it mental block, or is it intuitive thinking that keeps you from taking on more than you are ready to handle?

I think because we started out together on this journey and even though I had more life experience... There was not fear of being ready or unable to be what He needed me to be... I was more than willing and ready by the time we started... as I stated before He was holding back until He knew me to make sure He did not harm me....

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Desdemona,

We have completed checklists, and have discussed them on several occasions. According to the checklists, I have very few limits. But they are only lists, and deal more with sexual and sensation issues. I have few, if any, sexual hangups. Sex is the easy part - it's the mental and emotional parts that concern me the most. Can I ever truly turn over my will, and my trust to another completely?

My Sir has indicated that he would be honored if I were to become his slave. That requires so much trust. Possibly more than I am able to comprehend at this time.

Emme

Checklists are a great place to start, and also to keep revisiting to note the changes, as well as discuss the direction you are both going. We still go over ours from time to time, and it is always amazing to me how much I have grown in his care, how much more I now am compared to when we started. It is healthy to change over time and most do, even Dominants. For this reason, it is possible perhaps for him to give you a worst case scenario today, but will it still apply in 6-12 months time?

It is quite possible, as much as you will see growth in yourself resulting in changes, so will he in his own self. This is where the firm base for the relationship becomes invaluable as like Desdemona says, you know he will not harm you, abuse you, or push you further than you can go even though there will be moments you wil be thinking you are way out of your depth. The final accomplishment which proves that thought wrong is irreplacable in its value for evolving as a confident, contented person.

As you have realised, it is more the mental and emotional parts that are the difficult ones to manage to control. Trust plays a big part and for most due to life experiences, it is not going to come overnight. It is a matter of building on existing levels of trust with your partner, looking microscopically at times at the way he has treated you to date to show there is reason to trust, and discussing any issues you may have, whether real or imagined. As long as they are in your mind, they are real in my opinion.

You are right to take your time to become slave as IMHO it carries much deeper commitment in the long term than submission alone. For many, ourselves included, there is no turning back after committing to it. That means both people involved have to work hard at managing and dealing with any issues that arise and not just take the door as an easy way out. As much as I am aware being slave is the only role I would be happy with, I can never say it is easy, and for me this is part of the attraction as I love a challenge.....it keeps me alive when little else will. It is continual work on yourself to comply without becoming a doormat, without losing who you are, while still serving his needs and fulfilling his desires in all areas. For me the struggle is well worth the final outcome though and is a source of constant joy and contentment.

Catalina

 

[FungiUg]

I understand what you're saying, that a dominant's desires might change with time. Out of curiosity, though, wouldn't it serve a dominant's best interests to pose the worst case scenario to 'weed out' those submissives that might say 'no way!' to some of his or her desires later on?

As a submissive, if you know the most radical things that may be asked of you - and feel as if you can deal with those desires - submission would be much easier.

Handing over complete trust, without having a basis to make decisions upon, is not something easy to do - no matter what the level of trust. Especially if you have never taken that step before.

Emme, do you know your "worst case scenario"? I don't know mine. I also don't like to think of my desires and requirements as "worst case". Instead, I like to think that my submissive enjoys my attentions and requirements.

What it really comes down to is trust. Do you trust the person you are submitting to? In my case, my submissives always have the option to say "no". I need to know that everything I require of a submissive shw wants to do, so her ability to say "no" at any point is a necessity.

In your case, becoming someone's slave, you would lose that ability to say "no", am I right? In which case, you need to know that the person you are becoming slave to will always have your best interests at heart.

At this point... I can go no further, because that's just not me. I don't do slavery. All I can do is wish you the best of luck, and acknowledge that it's a huge step to be taking!

 

[MissTaken]

*bump*