Submissive's Purpose
- Thread starter Richard49
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Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Lark S:
I think the problem with trying to qualify and quantify what D/s is in theory (for all) is that it disregards the "magic", humanity and individuality that separates it from such things as rape, psychosis, brutal force and the ever popular abuse.
Or, as another sage put it:
Friendship is like pissing in your pants:
Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its true warmth.
I think the problem with trying to qualify and quantify what D/s is in theory (for all) is that it disregards the "magic", humanity and individuality that separates it from such things as rape, psychosis, brutal force and the ever popular abuse.
Or, as another sage put it:
Friendship is like pissing in your pants:
Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its true warmth.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Miss T,
Heck, I just updated mine [bdsm "menu"]last night and what? There were things on there that I had previously said I would never do that I now enjoy very much.
Sweetie, consider that there's a standing offer from me, herewith, to experientially provide you with 'update' material at any time.
Heck, I just updated mine [bdsm "menu"]last night and what? There were things on there that I had previously said I would never do that I now enjoy very much.
Sweetie, consider that there's a standing offer from me, herewith, to experientially provide you with 'update' material at any time.
Johnny Mayberry
Golden Boy
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Now, are we talking like a 200-item list that covers only BDSM, or is a complete personal profile? Because, if you get that specific with things...
MissTaken
Biker Chick
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Pure said:Miss T,
Heck, I just updated mine [bdsm "menu"]last night and what? There were things on there that I had previously said I would never do that I now enjoy very much.
Sweetie, consider that there's a standing offer from me, herewith, to experientially provide you with 'update' material at any time.
I do believe Pure is flirting with me?
Oh gosh...now this side of him, I don't know how to handle!
MissTaken
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Johnny Mayberry said:
It is considered a BDSM checklist. However, it is more about sexuality of any type.
I mean to say that areas covered do include activities that are loved by all who enjoy sex i.e. vaginal sex.
It is pretty comprehensive and yes, too lengthy, IMHO.
It is more likely to be a tool for discussion once I have become involved wiht a Dominant, rather than a tool by which to chose a Dominant.
lark sparrow
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Pure said:Lark S:
I think the problem with trying to qualify and quantify what D/s is in theory (for all) is that it disregards the "magic", humanity and individuality that separates it from such things as rape, psychosis, brutal force and the ever popular abuse.
Or, as another sage put it:
Friendship is like pissing in your pants:
Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its true warmth.
Or,
Theory is like watching other people piss their pants:
You can see it, but you will never understand it's true warmth.
lark sparrow
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True that. I guess there are different types of dependence. Two basics come to mind:ownedsubgal said:
1. Dependence for basic survival - one is truly incapable of living without, or taking care of themselves or their needs, having little or no choice.
Example: The most obvious true dependent being an infant. Another might be someone needing serious, immediate and sophisticated medical attention by a trained and specialized doctor/surgeon/hospital to survive. A super basic one for all mammals is air, then water and food.
2. Dependence or inter-dependence, usually chosen, mutual needs met though a cooperative relationship, though basic survival will probably not be an immediate issue.
Example: One thing may lead to another, but you will not cease to exist as an immediate, direct result of being without love, employment, friendship, etc.
How and where being "hard-wired/born as" or any other branch of loss or lack of control or free will gets subjective and tricky.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Sub's purpose, subs' lists, and a sub's 'service' according to a list:
OK Netzach, I see the use of a list as a roadmap. Esp if the dislikes as well as the likes are noted. Yes, it could be used in reverse [the dom/me does what's down as 'disliked' or soft or hard limit] But, come on! is that what it looks like? Is that how you think the average Joe/Jane is going to fill out and use the list?
I'm very uneasy. (further comments after)/ Here are some excerpts from the 'New Bdsm Checklist' at the site mentioned. Visit the site for a full version. Note, these excerpts are semi-randomly chosen, and aren't intended to reflect the choices of anyone, including Miss T.]
=====
http://www.soulshaven.f2s.com/newchecklist/printerfriendly.php3
[New BDSM Checklist: excerpts,selected items—either objects or activities; to be answered as responder doing to someone; having done to responder: like, dislike, essential, hard limit, soft limit]
Beating - Canes
Acts in which one partner is beaten with a cane.
Beating Location - Chest
Beating based acts that focus on the chest or breasts as a target.
Bondage - Sleeves, Arm
Restricting the movement of the arms by placing them in a confining sleeve.
Leashes
Wearing a leash, attached to a collar (or other convenient point).
Speculums - Vaginal
Using a medical tool to dilate (stretch open) the entrance to the vagina, providing access within.
Clothing - Uniforms, School
Wearing schoolgirl/schoolboy uniforms.
Clothing Material - Sheer
Clothing made out of, or involving, sheer (transparent or translucent) material.
Gags - Ring
A type of gag that uses a ring to force the mouth open while providing access to the, now undefendable, mouth.
Licking
Using your tongue on another person's body [or, often, anything they require].
Roleplay - Religious
Scenes in which the participants take on and act out roles based on the religious world such as confessionals or Bishop/Nun.
Serving - Housework
Serving another person, putting their pleasure ahead of your own, performing household chores.
Shaving - Genital, Styling
Shaving or trimming pubic hair, removing some but not all of it in order to create a given style.
Worship - Bottom
Worshiping the bottom of another person.
====
now to Miss T's question:
Miss T: The "menu and match" theory is invalid because there is never a perfect match and who would want that? How would one gain new experiences and grow if they were with someone who only liked what they did?
Some of us have hard limits, which are very few limits that would preclude getting involved with someone. In general, the "menu" is a rough guide to assist one in making choices, it is not something to used concretely.
Heck, I just updated mine last night and what? There were things on there that I had previously said I would never do that I now enjoy very much.
What is the difference between posting an ad on a vanilla site and saying, I like classic movies, country music, and hate sports. When someone contacts you who is in three soft ball leagues and goes to nascar races every weekend, are you likely to get involved ? No. Might you? Possibly...ya just might learn to like Nascar races!
Here's the difference, Miss T., and I accept that 'the list', what I've called 'the menu' may change.
Insofar as it's meant to guide, "You are do [some of] what I say like and don't do [hardly any of] what I say I don't like; You are certainly to do what I say is 'essential.' " I see a clear surface similarity as compared with a 'vanilla list' that says, 'moonlit walks, soul talk, Greek food, but no Greek.'
Yet that's unfortunate.
The hypothetical 'vanilla' is trying for a mutually agreed arrangement for activities and pleasures at least somewhat on his/her terms. To an extent, s/he's 'out for number 1', or perhaps s/he thinks 'OK give me _some_ of what I want and I'll give you _some_ of what you want. Let's negotiate.'
The alleged [hypothetical] sub with her list-meant-as-direction claims s/he wants to 'transfer' power, to surrender, have his/her will imposed upon. Yes? Yet she comes with the above list.
Unless she [hypothetical sub, no one here is being referred to] intends the the list be generally 'used in reverse' [Do to me the things I say I _don't_ like], she should, as John M said, more appropriately look for a slave; or --in my view-- look for a kinky person not alleging to be a dom/me-- with similar likes and dislikes.
Just my personal and aberrant views, for what they're worth.
Best,
J.
OK Netzach, I see the use of a list as a roadmap. Esp if the dislikes as well as the likes are noted. Yes, it could be used in reverse [the dom/me does what's down as 'disliked' or soft or hard limit] But, come on! is that what it looks like? Is that how you think the average Joe/Jane is going to fill out and use the list?
I'm very uneasy. (further comments after)/ Here are some excerpts from the 'New Bdsm Checklist' at the site mentioned. Visit the site for a full version. Note, these excerpts are semi-randomly chosen, and aren't intended to reflect the choices of anyone, including Miss T.]
=====
http://www.soulshaven.f2s.com/newchecklist/printerfriendly.php3
[New BDSM Checklist: excerpts,selected items—either objects or activities; to be answered as responder doing to someone; having done to responder: like, dislike, essential, hard limit, soft limit]
Beating - Canes
Acts in which one partner is beaten with a cane.
Beating Location - Chest
Beating based acts that focus on the chest or breasts as a target.
Bondage - Sleeves, Arm
Restricting the movement of the arms by placing them in a confining sleeve.
Leashes
Wearing a leash, attached to a collar (or other convenient point).
Speculums - Vaginal
Using a medical tool to dilate (stretch open) the entrance to the vagina, providing access within.
Clothing - Uniforms, School
Wearing schoolgirl/schoolboy uniforms.
Clothing Material - Sheer
Clothing made out of, or involving, sheer (transparent or translucent) material.
Gags - Ring
A type of gag that uses a ring to force the mouth open while providing access to the, now undefendable, mouth.
Licking
Using your tongue on another person's body [or, often, anything they require].
Roleplay - Religious
Scenes in which the participants take on and act out roles based on the religious world such as confessionals or Bishop/Nun.
Serving - Housework
Serving another person, putting their pleasure ahead of your own, performing household chores.
Shaving - Genital, Styling
Shaving or trimming pubic hair, removing some but not all of it in order to create a given style.
Worship - Bottom
Worshiping the bottom of another person.
====
now to Miss T's question:
Miss T: The "menu and match" theory is invalid because there is never a perfect match and who would want that? How would one gain new experiences and grow if they were with someone who only liked what they did?
Some of us have hard limits, which are very few limits that would preclude getting involved with someone. In general, the "menu" is a rough guide to assist one in making choices, it is not something to used concretely.
Heck, I just updated mine last night and what? There were things on there that I had previously said I would never do that I now enjoy very much.
What is the difference between posting an ad on a vanilla site and saying, I like classic movies, country music, and hate sports. When someone contacts you who is in three soft ball leagues and goes to nascar races every weekend, are you likely to get involved ? No. Might you? Possibly...ya just might learn to like Nascar races!
Here's the difference, Miss T., and I accept that 'the list', what I've called 'the menu' may change.
Insofar as it's meant to guide, "You are do [some of] what I say like and don't do [hardly any of] what I say I don't like; You are certainly to do what I say is 'essential.' " I see a clear surface similarity as compared with a 'vanilla list' that says, 'moonlit walks, soul talk, Greek food, but no Greek.'
Yet that's unfortunate.
The hypothetical 'vanilla' is trying for a mutually agreed arrangement for activities and pleasures at least somewhat on his/her terms. To an extent, s/he's 'out for number 1', or perhaps s/he thinks 'OK give me _some_ of what I want and I'll give you _some_ of what you want. Let's negotiate.'
The alleged [hypothetical] sub with her list-meant-as-direction claims s/he wants to 'transfer' power, to surrender, have his/her will imposed upon. Yes? Yet she comes with the above list.
Unless she [hypothetical sub, no one here is being referred to] intends the the list be generally 'used in reverse' [Do to me the things I say I _don't_ like], she should, as John M said, more appropriately look for a slave; or --in my view-- look for a kinky person not alleging to be a dom/me-- with similar likes and dislikes.
Just my personal and aberrant views, for what they're worth.
Best,
J.
Last edited:
T.J. Jackson
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I think a person can be a submissive and submit even if they do have a list of do's and don'ts. It's just finding the right match for them. Why would someone, anyone, a submissive or a Dom/me get involved with someone if their kinks are completely incompatable. If the Dom/me likes bloodplay and the submissive has a severe reaction to it, ie throws up or passes out at the sight of blood, why would the submissive get involved with someone who doesn't take into account the reaction. I think when first getting together with someone a list can help sort through whether or not things should progress further or if things should stop before too much time and effort are invested in it.
They can still submit, doesn't mean that ALL the list has to match up....maybe the Dom/me can push the limits farther after trust is built up. But initailly I think it's not entirely a bad idea to have some idea what each others kinks are.
They can still submit, doesn't mean that ALL the list has to match up....maybe the Dom/me can push the limits farther after trust is built up. But initailly I think it's not entirely a bad idea to have some idea what each others kinks are.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Question for Lark S.
Look at the list excerpts above, on type of corporal punishment, location of blows, type of gag, type of clothing, type of role play ---- and, if you care to, looking at the other 180 items listed at the site--- would you say that a detailed discussion of these items, might possibly work against the 'magic' you spoke of:
I think the problem with trying to qualify and quantify what D/s is in theory (for all) is that it disregards the "magic", humanity and individuality
just curious, honeybun...
PS: do you have any of that there shear trance parent stuff their talking 'bout?
Look at the list excerpts above, on type of corporal punishment, location of blows, type of gag, type of clothing, type of role play ---- and, if you care to, looking at the other 180 items listed at the site--- would you say that a detailed discussion of these items, might possibly work against the 'magic' you spoke of:
I think the problem with trying to qualify and quantify what D/s is in theory (for all) is that it disregards the "magic", humanity and individuality
just curious, honeybun...
PS: do you have any of that there shear trance parent stuff their talking 'bout?
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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to tjj,
//If the Dom/me likes bloodplay and the submissive has a severe reaction to it, ie throws up or passes out at the sight of blood, why would the submissive get involved with someone who doesn't take into account the reaction.//
Fair enough, but, at the other end of the spectrum, if the sub likes--comes to-- light caning of the front of the thighs and thin lashes applied to the shaven genitals, and the alleged dom/me, too finds this the height of erotism, and having agreed on that, they get together and do it, is anyone dominating the other? Has anyone 'surrendered' or 'given-up or transferred power' to the other'? **
My answer is 'no' and 'no'; they're simply enacting a common kink, not unlike the two pigging out on much-beloved pistachio ice cream.
** the same argument applies to a sub's 'like-list' from which an item is chosen, say, by the play director.
//If the Dom/me likes bloodplay and the submissive has a severe reaction to it, ie throws up or passes out at the sight of blood, why would the submissive get involved with someone who doesn't take into account the reaction.//
Fair enough, but, at the other end of the spectrum, if the sub likes--comes to-- light caning of the front of the thighs and thin lashes applied to the shaven genitals, and the alleged dom/me, too finds this the height of erotism, and having agreed on that, they get together and do it, is anyone dominating the other? Has anyone 'surrendered' or 'given-up or transferred power' to the other'? **
My answer is 'no' and 'no'; they're simply enacting a common kink, not unlike the two pigging out on much-beloved pistachio ice cream.
** the same argument applies to a sub's 'like-list' from which an item is chosen, say, by the play director.
Last edited:
Richard49
The Gentleman Dom
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MissTaken said:Some can submit without love in any mix of the alphabet soup. Trust may beget love, one doesn't need to love or be in love to trust.
Affection, respect and trust can happen and be the foundation for a "platonic" D/s relationship.
I, personally, have known a greater degree of submission to a friend/mentor than to a lover.
Does this make sense?
perhaps this has something to do with how one defines love
for me love is the action that takes place when respect, caring, knowldege and responsiblity converge
T.J. Jackson
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Pure said:
Fair enough, I can accept your answers but you are just talking in a scene. For those two individuals are they involved outside of scening or do they just get together and play? I think the answer of who is dominating who is deeper than just scening together. If for instance two people just get together and play it seems to me it would mostly be about satisfying kinks. If they however have a closer relationship and are involved with each other, then doesn't dominance and submission come into play?
Richard49
The Gentleman Dom
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200 item bdsm checklist
Perhaps we need to remember the BDSM is big umbralla
that includes D/s, tops/bottoms and other variations
and for the "s"
it can be submissive, slave and other variations
based on person,experence and enviromant
Perhaps we need to remember the BDSM is big umbralla
that includes D/s, tops/bottoms and other variations
and for the "s"
it can be submissive, slave and other variations
based on person,experence and enviromant
T.J. Jackson
Literotica Guru
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Basically what I am asking in a round about way Pure is, do you believe it is not possible for someone to submit totally if they have a checklist of limits and kinks?
JarringJoe
Really Experienced
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On Treatment of Submissives
My first "serious" submissive was a woman who could not have orgasms other than through masturbation. She loved fucking, and for the first months of our relationship I thought that she was climaxing when we had intercourse. Then she 'fessed up: she was faking, the only way she could cum, she said, was with her fingers, used both in her pussy and her ass.
This will not be an anti-Catholic rant, but an explanation. She was raised in a very Catholic household, where both her mother and father made plain that any touching of her genital area, even while bathing or showering, was evil, and could cause her to become barren. (How she managed to keep her pussy clean as a child and teen is something we never addressed.) Nuns at her boarding school gave her the same spiel. Nature prevailed eventually, and she willingly became a non-virgin while in college, but with no orgasm. Same deal through her first marriage: a so-so fuck of a husband, a divorce. Second husband, stick it it and wiggle, shoot off, get out.
She was still married when our affair began, and she told me (and I think truthfully) that I fucked her well. But again, try though she could -- our intercourse often lasted 45 minutes -- she could not get off.
So what could be done? I even brought a mutual friend into bed with us, in the thought that having two cocks in succession would push her over the brink. Nope, no dice.
The more we talked, the more I came to realize that to achieve climax, she was going to have to reach a point where she did not control her own body or her reactions while being fucked.
She was a horsewoman, I knew she liked leather. One bright autumn day I drove her out to Warrenton, Va., in the Virginia hunt country, and we stopped at a tack shop. I bought several strips of leather, the sort of stuff used for bridles and the like. Unbeknownst to M, earlier I had purchased a three-foot length of one-inch round wood (thicker than a broom stick). I attached screw eyes to both ends. I had M bring along two pairs of discarded panty hose.
We took a motel room, we walked out back into the woods and spread a blanket and had a picnic of sandwiches and a bottle of wine and did some minor fooling around. (M took off her top and sunned her bare breasts, which she loved doing). I directed her to pull down her jeans and panties and pee as I watched, telling her, "As soon as you do that, I am going to take you to the motel and fuck you." Splash splash, a stream of golden piss from her cunt to the ground, the first time she had ever done so in front of anyone else.
I got her naked. I brought out the length of wood and bound it to either of her ankles with the panty hose. The result was that her legs were spread very wide apart, leaving her cunt and ass hole very wantonly exposed. I tied the leather strips through each of the screw eyes and thence to the bedposts at the head of the bed, hoisting M's bottom off the mattress by six inches or so, making her exposure even more total. Lastly, I bound her hands to the side of the bed, with her arms stretched far back.
There she was, helpless and just a bit pissed off at me, for she had no notion of what I intended to do. I ate her pussy, I fingered her pussy, I licked and tongued her ass hole. I tweaked and nibbled her hard nipples. I held my cock in one hand and rubbed it up and down the length of her slit, teasing but not penetrating. After half an hour she was gasping and demanding that I fuck her.
I did so -- but very very slowly, giving her my dick an inch at a time, putting in the crown, rubbing it around, taking it away from her, then coming back, just a bit more. Perhaps 15 minutes of "slow fucking," my finger in her pussy alongside my cock from time to time, teasing her clittie, then a gradually increasing tempo, until I was slamming her hard.
She broke after about five minutes -- a gasp and a scream that made me thankful we had requested a room to the rear of the motel. I kept at her, she kept screaming and moaning until I came.
I stayed inside her pussy as my erection slowly subsided. She looked down at me and smiled and said, "Well, I guess I don't have to tell you what happened." No, she didn't. I had taken control of her body, her psyche, her rejection mechanisms, and she achieved climax.
Over the next few weeks we used various means of restraints when we fucked, and she continued to have intense orgasms. I used the leather straps on her ass several times, reddening her flesh but not drawing blood. I tied her spread-eagle fashion to the front of a door and left her there, helpless, for two hours, coming over occasionally to fondle her pussy. These strategems, too, made her cum.
A month or so later, she said demurely, "Well, I think I am ready to solo." So I fucked her with only the usual foreplay, and she got her orgasms, good ones. We brought in our mutual friend a day or so later, and she came with him as well, easily and eagerly.
She divorced, I divorced, we lived together for six months or so but realized that we were not compatible on an on-going basis, and we split. When she had her car packed and was ready to head out the driveway she smiled at me and said, "Thanks," and I knew what she meant.
My first submissive. No advance rules, no notification to M of what I intended to do, no chance for her to refuse anything I chose. I simply used common sense, and I achieved the goal we both desired.
My first "serious" submissive was a woman who could not have orgasms other than through masturbation. She loved fucking, and for the first months of our relationship I thought that she was climaxing when we had intercourse. Then she 'fessed up: she was faking, the only way she could cum, she said, was with her fingers, used both in her pussy and her ass.
This will not be an anti-Catholic rant, but an explanation. She was raised in a very Catholic household, where both her mother and father made plain that any touching of her genital area, even while bathing or showering, was evil, and could cause her to become barren. (How she managed to keep her pussy clean as a child and teen is something we never addressed.) Nuns at her boarding school gave her the same spiel. Nature prevailed eventually, and she willingly became a non-virgin while in college, but with no orgasm. Same deal through her first marriage: a so-so fuck of a husband, a divorce. Second husband, stick it it and wiggle, shoot off, get out.
She was still married when our affair began, and she told me (and I think truthfully) that I fucked her well. But again, try though she could -- our intercourse often lasted 45 minutes -- she could not get off.
So what could be done? I even brought a mutual friend into bed with us, in the thought that having two cocks in succession would push her over the brink. Nope, no dice.
The more we talked, the more I came to realize that to achieve climax, she was going to have to reach a point where she did not control her own body or her reactions while being fucked.
She was a horsewoman, I knew she liked leather. One bright autumn day I drove her out to Warrenton, Va., in the Virginia hunt country, and we stopped at a tack shop. I bought several strips of leather, the sort of stuff used for bridles and the like. Unbeknownst to M, earlier I had purchased a three-foot length of one-inch round wood (thicker than a broom stick). I attached screw eyes to both ends. I had M bring along two pairs of discarded panty hose.
We took a motel room, we walked out back into the woods and spread a blanket and had a picnic of sandwiches and a bottle of wine and did some minor fooling around. (M took off her top and sunned her bare breasts, which she loved doing). I directed her to pull down her jeans and panties and pee as I watched, telling her, "As soon as you do that, I am going to take you to the motel and fuck you." Splash splash, a stream of golden piss from her cunt to the ground, the first time she had ever done so in front of anyone else.
I got her naked. I brought out the length of wood and bound it to either of her ankles with the panty hose. The result was that her legs were spread very wide apart, leaving her cunt and ass hole very wantonly exposed. I tied the leather strips through each of the screw eyes and thence to the bedposts at the head of the bed, hoisting M's bottom off the mattress by six inches or so, making her exposure even more total. Lastly, I bound her hands to the side of the bed, with her arms stretched far back.
There she was, helpless and just a bit pissed off at me, for she had no notion of what I intended to do. I ate her pussy, I fingered her pussy, I licked and tongued her ass hole. I tweaked and nibbled her hard nipples. I held my cock in one hand and rubbed it up and down the length of her slit, teasing but not penetrating. After half an hour she was gasping and demanding that I fuck her.
I did so -- but very very slowly, giving her my dick an inch at a time, putting in the crown, rubbing it around, taking it away from her, then coming back, just a bit more. Perhaps 15 minutes of "slow fucking," my finger in her pussy alongside my cock from time to time, teasing her clittie, then a gradually increasing tempo, until I was slamming her hard.
She broke after about five minutes -- a gasp and a scream that made me thankful we had requested a room to the rear of the motel. I kept at her, she kept screaming and moaning until I came.
I stayed inside her pussy as my erection slowly subsided. She looked down at me and smiled and said, "Well, I guess I don't have to tell you what happened." No, she didn't. I had taken control of her body, her psyche, her rejection mechanisms, and she achieved climax.
Over the next few weeks we used various means of restraints when we fucked, and she continued to have intense orgasms. I used the leather straps on her ass several times, reddening her flesh but not drawing blood. I tied her spread-eagle fashion to the front of a door and left her there, helpless, for two hours, coming over occasionally to fondle her pussy. These strategems, too, made her cum.
A month or so later, she said demurely, "Well, I think I am ready to solo." So I fucked her with only the usual foreplay, and she got her orgasms, good ones. We brought in our mutual friend a day or so later, and she came with him as well, easily and eagerly.
She divorced, I divorced, we lived together for six months or so but realized that we were not compatible on an on-going basis, and we split. When she had her car packed and was ready to head out the driveway she smiled at me and said, "Thanks," and I knew what she meant.
My first submissive. No advance rules, no notification to M of what I intended to do, no chance for her to refuse anything I chose. I simply used common sense, and I achieved the goal we both desired.
Last edited:
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Excellent, Jarring Joe! kudos etc.
My first submissive. No advance rules, no notification to M of what I intended to do, no chance for her to refuse anything I chose. I simply used common sense, and I achieved the goal we both desired
And think of what would have happened had you been snarled up in her 200 item list of preferences or had you sought 'pre-approval'-- additions to her list [as some here have said in the way to go]--of the items you had in mind.
: 
My first submissive. No advance rules, no notification to M of what I intended to do, no chance for her to refuse anything I chose. I simply used common sense, and I achieved the goal we both desired
And think of what would have happened had you been snarled up in her 200 item list of preferences or had you sought 'pre-approval'-- additions to her list [as some here have said in the way to go]--of the items you had in mind.
: JarringJoe
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2003
- Posts
- 257
No List Domination
Pure, you are absolutely right -- had I told M in advance what I had in mind, any thought of gaining control over her would have been lost, for the old phobias would have been foremost in her mind, not the release I was offering to her.
I did treat her successor a bit differently in that she knew what was going to happen if she behaved/misbehaved in a certain way. When K moved into my house, on a 70-acre farm about 100 miles from anywhere, I made plain to her that she would receive one "free pass" a week on fucking -- i. e., to plead, "I'm too tired," or "my pussy is still sore from last night" (this after a threesome with one of our friends). One time a week, I would agree, give her a kiss, and either rolll over and go to sleep or sit on the side of the bed and jack off (she could watch or not, as she preferred).
But, if K was bold enough to say "no" a second night during the same week, she knew exactly what was going to happen. First thing she knew, she would be on her hand and knees, my hands spreading her buttocks, my cock ramming into her ass hole, without benefit of digital foreplay or a lubricant, just hard slam-bam fucking. K's anus was somewhat tight even without preparation. Taklng her "dry" increased her initial discomfort multi-fold (from her point of view) but also made her a very satisfying fuck (from my point of view).
Although K made a point of screaming in protest and begging me not to fuck her ass, at least one night a week she seemed driven to challenge me, knowing what was going to happen. Once she had been fucked a bit, however, she was properly humbled. She would bring in a basin of warm water and soap and a wash cloth and cleanse my dick and beg me to fuck her cunt.
K was a complex and intelligent woman (she taught at the university level) and a sexual delight. It dawned on me early on (duh!!) that she got a thrill out of the pain level of unwanted/unprepared anal sex, and thus she was provoking me into taking her that way. But her protests and resistance sufficed to make me feel that I was truly in the dominant role as I fucked her.
I must add, to be straightforward with other posters, that D/S has been a minor part of my sexual life, but what I've done with submissives was universally exciting.
Pure, you are absolutely right -- had I told M in advance what I had in mind, any thought of gaining control over her would have been lost, for the old phobias would have been foremost in her mind, not the release I was offering to her.
I did treat her successor a bit differently in that she knew what was going to happen if she behaved/misbehaved in a certain way. When K moved into my house, on a 70-acre farm about 100 miles from anywhere, I made plain to her that she would receive one "free pass" a week on fucking -- i. e., to plead, "I'm too tired," or "my pussy is still sore from last night" (this after a threesome with one of our friends). One time a week, I would agree, give her a kiss, and either rolll over and go to sleep or sit on the side of the bed and jack off (she could watch or not, as she preferred).
But, if K was bold enough to say "no" a second night during the same week, she knew exactly what was going to happen. First thing she knew, she would be on her hand and knees, my hands spreading her buttocks, my cock ramming into her ass hole, without benefit of digital foreplay or a lubricant, just hard slam-bam fucking. K's anus was somewhat tight even without preparation. Taklng her "dry" increased her initial discomfort multi-fold (from her point of view) but also made her a very satisfying fuck (from my point of view).
Although K made a point of screaming in protest and begging me not to fuck her ass, at least one night a week she seemed driven to challenge me, knowing what was going to happen. Once she had been fucked a bit, however, she was properly humbled. She would bring in a basin of warm water and soap and a wash cloth and cleanse my dick and beg me to fuck her cunt.
K was a complex and intelligent woman (she taught at the university level) and a sexual delight. It dawned on me early on (duh!!) that she got a thrill out of the pain level of unwanted/unprepared anal sex, and thus she was provoking me into taking her that way. But her protests and resistance sufficed to make me feel that I was truly in the dominant role as I fucked her.
I must add, to be straightforward with other posters, that D/S has been a minor part of my sexual life, but what I've done with submissives was universally exciting.
lark sparrow
Literotica Guru
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Pure said:Question for Lark S.
Look at the list excerpts above, on type of corporal punishment, location of blows, type of gag, type of clothing, type of role play ---- and, if you care to, looking at the other 180 items listed at the site--- would you say that a detailed discussion of these items, might possibly work against the 'magic' you spoke of:
I think the problem with trying to qualify and quantify what D/s is in theory (for all) is that it disregards the "magic", humanity and individuality
just curious, honeybun...
PS: do you have any of that there shear trance parent stuff their talking 'bout?
I only skimmed through the list. I've never exchanged one of those long lists with anyone. I have a few hard limits, I have many things I know I really like, and then there is all the rest of the stuff to experiment with as wished. It will also be discussed if there are any particularly large fears, bad experiences, health problems, etc. The list is fine for those who use it, and apparently those who don't are doing fine without it. The topic isn't doing much for me... feel free to continue.
It's fine to discuss activities and bare mechanics of Domination and submission, though it doesn't take into account the larger relationship, Pure. It was simply my take on the discussion, and I commented. No need to be offended. It didn't interest me to debate the subject as I really don't care if Pure says it D/s or not (no offense), but I did think there were some important facets missing in your analysis of BDSM, and perhaps that's because you have never experienced the deeper relationship which goes far beyond activities... or perhaps you simply find the judging of mechanics fascinating, which is cool too.
If shear trance parent stuff has been mentioned I missed it. You'll have to be more direct if you care to discuss it. Are you talking about phace5 pretending to be janettt5 and my calling the ruse transparent? Are you suggesting my comment is transparent or are you asking if I am human with faults and weaknesses? Feel free to clarify.
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Netzach
>semiotics?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
- Posts
- 21,732
I've used the lists, really I have. As an ice breaker. Maybe you're right, Pure, and people take them more seriously. I can't imagine anyone taking them all that seriously, but I'm not one to find a lack of D/s in my world problematic. I'm perfectly fine pigging out on pistachio ice cream together, as it were, and I'm not about to pierce someone precisely because they don't want me to and I like to, I'm more inclined to find me a piercee who loves it. Not because I don't want to impose or impinge, but because it's more fun for me when it's fun.
It was a useful way to see where the other person clocked in, remind myself of a few things I forgot were as nice as they are...(spreader bars....hmmm, have to do that more) and get a sense of what kind of a sick fuck I'm trying to seduce here anyway.
It was a useful way to see where the other person clocked in, remind myself of a few things I forgot were as nice as they are...(spreader bars....hmmm, have to do that more) and get a sense of what kind of a sick fuck I'm trying to seduce here anyway.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Hi TJJ,
I'm not trying to avoid you, just want to leave space for others.
TJJ: Fair enough, I can accept your answers but you are just talking in a scene. For those two individuals are they involved outside of scening or do they just get together and play? I think the answer of who is dominating who is deeper than just scening together. If for instance two people just get together and play it seems to me it would mostly be about satisfying kinks. If they however have a closer relationship and are involved with each other, then doesn't dominance and submission come into play?
-----
My view is that, in any period of time--hour, day, week-- if what's happening is according to the sub's pre-specifications designed to be directive (s/he wants the list followed), and with a view to ensuring that s/he comes in the fashion s/he desires, that isn't a time when anyone is dominating or submitting. It's fun time.
Obviously one could then look at a large span of time, and maybe one would find domination there if the s's pre-specifications are not being followed.
===
===
TJJ:
Basically what I am asking in a roundabout way, Pure is, do you believe it is not possible for someone to submit totally if they have a checklist of limits and kinks?
-----
If the s has a checklist, or even shows it, that's not an issue: as N says, some talk might be an ice breaker. I'm talking about a list meant to be followed--and actually followed by agreement-- to ensure the gratification of the sub on his/her terms. That seems to preclude domination or submission.
I guess it's such a simple point, I fail to convey it. Imposition on will (or, from the sub's side, surrender) can't be happening in some time period, if preferences of the s are followed in that period.
It's a bit like hiring a cook: S/he says, "I'll cook whatever you want; I'm here to serve you." then s/he adds, "But as I'll be eating whatever's cooked, here's a list of my favorite meals, and I'd appreciate it if you generally choose from, and issue your 'orders,' according to items on this list. Can we agree on that?"
Is that service ?
Thanks for your good questions. I'm simply giving my personal aberrant views, here.
I'm not trying to avoid you, just want to leave space for others.
TJJ: Fair enough, I can accept your answers but you are just talking in a scene. For those two individuals are they involved outside of scening or do they just get together and play? I think the answer of who is dominating who is deeper than just scening together. If for instance two people just get together and play it seems to me it would mostly be about satisfying kinks. If they however have a closer relationship and are involved with each other, then doesn't dominance and submission come into play?
-----
My view is that, in any period of time--hour, day, week-- if what's happening is according to the sub's pre-specifications designed to be directive (s/he wants the list followed), and with a view to ensuring that s/he comes in the fashion s/he desires, that isn't a time when anyone is dominating or submitting. It's fun time.
Obviously one could then look at a large span of time, and maybe one would find domination there if the s's pre-specifications are not being followed.
===
===
TJJ:
Basically what I am asking in a roundabout way, Pure is, do you believe it is not possible for someone to submit totally if they have a checklist of limits and kinks?
-----
If the s has a checklist, or even shows it, that's not an issue: as N says, some talk might be an ice breaker. I'm talking about a list meant to be followed--and actually followed by agreement-- to ensure the gratification of the sub on his/her terms. That seems to preclude domination or submission.
I guess it's such a simple point, I fail to convey it. Imposition on will (or, from the sub's side, surrender) can't be happening in some time period, if preferences of the s are followed in that period.
It's a bit like hiring a cook: S/he says, "I'll cook whatever you want; I'm here to serve you." then s/he adds, "But as I'll be eating whatever's cooked, here's a list of my favorite meals, and I'd appreciate it if you generally choose from, and issue your 'orders,' according to items on this list. Can we agree on that?"
Is that service ?
Thanks for your good questions. I'm simply giving my personal aberrant views, here.
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lark sparrow
Literotica Guru
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Pure said:Hi LS,
From the master list excerpts
//Clothing Material - Sheer
Clothing made out of, or involving, sheer (**transparent**or translucent) material. //
Nothing complicated, just trying to fuel a fantasy, your image, sugarpie.
lol ohhh, the master list I barely skimmed... warn me when you're going to go all simple on me, would ya?
I prefer leather and silk - standard issue black... or nakedness, interrupted only by cuffs, collar, chain and any ensuing marks. Image - slightly tarnished and transposed, please.
