Subs with ADHD: Question for Dom/mes, Tops, Mistresses, Master and all other PYL's..

[Etoile]

Since we can not even agree o nthis
it ios pointless to continue a dialgue
best of luck to you on this subject

oh ya
BTW
I was DXed with this in the 50s
my folks choise for me to not do medication
but rather to tlearn to manage my envioment

I have three college degrees etc.

As to the herbal approach
well
I am a certified herb specilist and working on my ND

Again best of luck to all of you

I'm sorry you feel that way. The tone your post seems to take, though, makes me feel like I have to take on the defensive here or risk being discounted.

For the terminology, I can only refer to the DSM-III-R which renamed ADD to ADHD - the American psychiatric establishment does not consider them as different disorders.

I did mention that I didn't think herbal medications would be effective for me - I believe you that they are helpful for some, I was only referring to myself. I am also aware that the use of stimulants as treatment for ADHD did not pick up until the 1960s, so it doesn't surprise me that you were expected to adapt to the situation. My mother went through the same thing - she has also developed coping mechanisms through the years.

I can't help but feel a little put-down by your mention of having three college degrees. That is a significant achievement for anyone, but to have it brought up in a topic like this makes me feel like you are gloating about your superior ability to adjust to ADHD. Everyone is different, of course; perhaps the severity of our disorders is vastly different.

That is what is really important to remember when discussing ADHD at all: everybody is different. Therapies that are the wonder solution for some may be totally ineffective for others. One person's ability to adapt may be vastly different than another's. The severity of one person's situation may be much less than another's. There is no easy answer with ADHD. I doubt there is even one universal cause - there's no virus that causes this. It's a complex and much-misunderstood disorder, and everyone (from patients to doctors) is still learning.

 

[astralkiss]

I have Attention Deficit Disorder. I was diagnosed when I was 5. My parents tried everything to help me out, from diets to therapy, but eventually it was determined that due to the fact that it is a neurochemical imbalance, medication was deemed necessary.

I am now starting my senior year of college and looking to start my Ph.D next fall.

Hopefully the PYL will comment.

I do feel that ADD does mildly affect my sex life. I need to be constantly stimulated or I get bored. I think that is why I constantly expect new things from partners.

 

[Richard49]

I have Attention Deficit Disorder. I was diagnosed when I was 5. My parents tried everything to help me out, from diets to therapy, but eventually it was determined that due to the fact that it is a neurochemical imbalance, medication was deemed necessary.

Please further my education
Exactly what test where used
and what chemical imbalances were found?

 

[astralkiss]

Please further my education
Exactly what test where used
and what chemical imbalances were found?

It was such a long time ago, and I cannot remember exactly what the test was. It was around 16 or 17 years ago, so I only have vague memories. I believe it was an MRI, but I could be wrong.
Anyways, due to the fact that I do not know much about neurology or chemistry, I digress, but I may have to leave it to someone else to intelligently answer the question. I will try to find more answers to your questions.

 

[Etoile]

Please further my education
Exactly what test where used
and what chemical imbalances were found?

Evidence is actually quite strong regarding the neurochemical cause of ADHD. It is most frequently considered to be a noradrenergic disorder (relating to norepinephrine) but other neurotransmitters, including seratonin and dopamine, are thought to be involved as well.
A quick Google search for 'adhd neurochemical' (not in quotes) turns up several thousand results. The one with the widest span of information is here from Neurotransmitter.net. The University of Virginia also has a good article on the subject here. Additionally, in 1990, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) completed a study linking ADHD with metabolic abnormalities, providing further evidence that ADHD is neurologically-based.
MRIs are indeed used in the diagnosis of ADHD - they measure the level of certain metabolites in the brain. This is nowhere near as common, though, as questionnaire and rating scales - and this contributes to the frequent misdiagnosis results wherein individuals who have ADHD aren't getting diagnosed, and individuals who don't are getting the diagnosis. I believe the most common rating scale is the Conner's scale, there are both child/teen and adult versions of this. Conner's depends not only on self-reporting but also on observer notations. To be honest, I eagerly await the day when a truly objective test can be developed and become widespread, this would help even out the number of diagnoses and misdiagnoses, and allow experts to start focusing their attention on how to help more than on how to diagnose.

 

[snowy ciara]

QUOTE=Richard49]Please further my education
Exactly what test where used
and what chemical imbalances were found?[/QUOTE]

I think maybe I covered the testing in another thread around here somewhere; but I just looked back and I didn't go into too much detail here.

Blood tests have indicated that I have lower than usual amounts of serotonin and dopamine in my body. Dopamine affects the way you synapses function, and serotonin effects your sleep and emotions. Both of these effect your concentration. It can be difficult to concentrate on one task for a long period of time. I find about 45-90 minutes is my limit, depending on the activity. For example, I can read for about 90 minutes non-stop. Math is about 40 minutes. This is an over-simplification of what they do; they really do lots more "stuff" but this is what is relevant to me, and my situation. People are different. Etoile's answer will be different from mine, and Catalina's sub will be different than ours.

Brain chemistry cycles during a 24 hour period, spiking at various times during the day. Numerous MRI's and Cat scans, as well as more blood work, have indicated that I "cycle" differently than most people. Unusual (as opposed to abnormal, cause I don't like that term) brain chemistry cycles have been found in many ADHD persons. FMRI's have also shown that ADHD persons have more brain activity in the pre-frontal lobes than non ADHD persons. While this increased cognitive function is great in theory, as it tends to make a person smarter, it's really a problem. It's like running your television right off the main power transformer downtown; there's too much power. The human brain is designed to be it's own step-down transformer, but it's (in our cases) only semi-functional in that capacity. Another common analogy is that if an ADHD person were a television; we'd be getting too much static with the rest of our input, so the signal doesn't always come in real well.

I'm currently non-medicated. I have never been medicated for ADHD itself. By the time I came along, my mother was mostly retired and had TONS of time to spend with me, retuning my brain and teaching me to cope. I'm also incredibly stubborn, or "cussed" as PaulUK once said. This eventually became an advantage to me as I used it to stick with things, when I really really wanted to quit. Never say die and all that. It's not always a good thing, as I tend to stick with something even after it's no longer beneficial to me. I was extremely lucky. Most kids don't have this sort of support system.

I'm also one of the ones who seriously needs structure. I tend to schedule almost everything and it's when my schedule gets off that bad things start to happen. I get panicky, frazzled, scared even. I really dread holidays and the madness they bring. Quite often, the bedlam induces a stress reaction so bad I get physically ill. Last January was really bad; and I ended up with anxiety attacks, which is the only time I've been medicated in relation to the ADHD. The drugs were not for the hyperactivity in itself; they were for the stress that came from my schedule being shot all to hell and back. I'm off them now. They were only prescribed as a stopgap measure to tone things down a bit so I could deal. I was also lucky in that several people here have gotten to know me well enough that when I was getting really wild, they took the time to talk me off a ledge or two. Thanks again; you know who you are.

Catalina, beings how I'm not too clued in to the bdsm world in a practical sense yet, I can't give a whole lot of advice, but there are some simple things to think of. When you're meeting with ADHD potential, I know a public place is best for first meetings. Try to choose a small venue during a quiet time of day. Find a seat in a quiet area, and at first, don't choose a locale that has live music. If possible, go for a place with MUZAK. This is to minimize distractions. When you get to the point of playing, go for dim lighting and non-distracting music. If he's having problems concentrating, try a blindfold, if they're not phobic about it. Cutting down on the sensory input makes it easier to concentrate. When you assign a task; break it down into steps if it's a big task.

"Go to the playroom, get undressed, and fold your clothes neatly. Place them on the chair. Pick three toys and place them on the bed. Kneel in the center of the room and wait for me." I would try to remember all this stuff; but you'd probably lose me when I was trying to fold my clothes neatly. I'd get all into that and distracted and you'd get in there in and I'd be all folding and messing around and trying to get it perfect and I would have failed the task and then I'd feel bad and I start to obsess on what a fuck up I am and then I'd get mad at myself and start to mentally berate myself about being a fuck up I am and any further directions you gave me would be lost in the mist of my brain, which would make it worse because then you'd be trying to tell me something and I'd miss it and then and then and then and then.....

Get the idea? If you break up the task into pieces and get the person to perform them one at a time, you'll have much better luck.

Anyhoo, my PM box is always open to you, so if you want to ask anything, just ask.

 

[tealsphynx]

My sub has ADHD. Sometimes I forget he does, and it will take some time for me to get used to it. For instance I ask him to take out the trash when he's done doing something, by the time he's finished what he was doing he forgets that I asked him to take out the trash. It's difficult for me. I get to where if I don't ask/say something when I'm thinking it I forget about it. So I tell him when I'm thinking about it, forgetting that he'll get distracted and forget. Then I'll think he took it out, and feel disappointed that he didn't do it like I asked. I'm finally getting to where I don't get mad at him, I just try to remember to remind him I asked him to do it. I know it's not his fault so I try not to punish or put him down for it and to not feel hurt by it.
He's also against medication, he won't even think about taking it. I'm hoping that if our children are ADHD as well that his experiences and mine in interacting with him will help us help our children. I will refuse to put them on any drugs should they also be ADHD, I saw too many kids when I was growing up eating Ritalin like it was candy and walking around looking stoned, sorry, that won't be my kids. It's not like depression where a definite imbalance can be recognized, it's too variable to be treated with one wonder drug cure all.

 

[Etoile]

My sub has ADHD. Sometimes I forget he does, and it will take some time for me to get used to it. For instance I ask him to take out the trash when he's done doing something, by the time he's finished what he was doing he forgets that I asked him to take out the trash. It's difficult for me. I get to where if I don't ask/say something when I'm thinking it I forget about it. So I tell him when I'm thinking about it, forgetting that he'll get distracted and forget. Then I'll think he took it out, and feel disappointed that he didn't do it like I asked. I'm finally getting to where I don't get mad at him, I just try to remember to remind him I asked him to do it. I know it's not his fault so I try not to punish or put him down for it and to not feel hurt by it.

It sounds like you are wonderfully aware of the nature of ADHD. It took a long time for my wife to realize what you have described here - it's not an easy realization to come by, as you know. For most people who are "on the outside" of this, it's totally incomprehensible. Why don't we remember to take out the trash? You just told us five minutes ago! Why do we need help with major life activities? Aren't these just what normal people do every day? But as you know, it's not from lack of wanting to. I have yearned for "normalcy" for close to 20 years. Right around the time I was diagnosed, I expressed a wish to my mother that I could be more like the neighbor girl. I observed that she could sit down and complete her spelling homework in half an hour, and I took three - but not because I couldn't spell. I knew something was different between us, and at that age I thought it must be my fault. I tried and tried to be like her. I had my mom draw a picture of a girl sitting at her desk working dutifully, in the hopes that I could look at that girl and remember to be like the picture. Now, as an adult, I have accepted that it's not my fault - but I still wish I could be just like everybody else and not constantly need help all the time.

The thought that some people seek out an ADHD diagnosis is abhorrent to me. Why would anybody want to have this? It makes life so much more difficult. I can't imagine "wanting" to have ADHD, nor using it as an excuse when you can achieve something on your own. For many people with severe ADHD - myself included - it's downright depressing to think that people don't understand what we go through. It's refreshing to see, tealsphynx, that you "get it."

He's also against medication, he won't even think about taking it. I'm hoping that if our children are ADHD as well that his experiences and mine in interacting with him will help us help our children. I will refuse to put them on any drugs should they also be ADHD, I saw too many kids when I was growing up eating Ritalin like it was candy and walking around looking stoned, sorry, that won't be my kids. It's not like depression where a definite imbalance can be recognized, it's too variable to be treated with one wonder drug cure all.

As you have seen, I personally disagree with this. I respect your right to decide for your children, and your partner's right to decide for himself. I don't agree, though, that it's not like depression in terms of an imbalance. On the contrary, distinct imbalances in several neurotransmitters have been noted with ADHD, as I mentioned in an above post. The reason medication is effective for many patients is because it can correct that imbalance. Of course medication is not the preferred solution - god, I wish I could stop taking drugs someday, permanently - but where other solutions have failed, medication is certainly an option to consider. It's not a cure-all, but it's also not just a depressant to the system (what you describe as "stoned" effect). In fact, that's been my point in my years of emphasizing the over- and under-diagnosis of ADHD. In the patients who receive it when they don't biologically need it, it's going to produce that effect. In the patients who do need it, though, it has the desired (and intended) effect. This goes for children and adults across a wide spectrum of medications, particularly those that are stimulant-based. (Strattera, which I have been on for a couple of years now, is one of the first non-stimulant medications for ADHD; I'm not sure yet what the difference is between the response in those who need it versus those who don't.)

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

[/QUOTE]In fact, that's been my point in my years of emphasizing the over- and under-diagnosis of ADHD. In the patients who receive it when they don't biologically need it, it's going to produce that effect. In the patients who do need it, though, it has the desired (and intended) effect. This goes for children and adults across a wide spectrum of medications, particularly those that are stimulant-based. (Strattera, which I have been on for a couple of years now, is one of the first non-stimulant medications for ADHD; I'm not sure yet what the difference is between the response in those who need it versus those who don't.)[/QUOTE]

Etoile you said exactly what i was thinking. i have seen the children who have been mis-diagnosed and/or over medicated...that is the zombie-like state.

As a parent i did not want to medicate my daughter, and worked with her until we reached the point that not only was it effecting her grades but her self-esteem and self-confidence. To have your child lie in bed at night and cry because they are at an age that they *know* something is not right. She knew that she was trying her best to pay attention but before she knew it her mind had strayed and she had missed everything. To know how intelligent your child is, but to see them cry and think they are not smart because their grades are falling due to the inability to pay attention and remain focused. At this point i knew it was time to see her pediatrician. i respect others decisions not to medicate their children and i can understand this, just as my brother is struggling with this same decision with his son right now. However, i think there is a stigma that has been attached to ADHD and ritalin...there are so many new and better medications. my daughter takes concerta and the only difference in her demeanor is her ability to focus and actually pay attention.