the consentual non-consent scene???

[reddixiecup]

Ok, that's just pervy.

Have you ever been had like that? The curiosity is killing me.

Object/violated/gangbang party favor, I'm convinced is a damn near universal fantasy, some of us are just more driven about it than others.

For me it's very very contextual. And it's even more interesting to see that it's off limits for my play partner, at least the physically overbearing hatefuck style of interaction. I can deconstruct that for days with this one, but nothing speaks volumes like a sudden limpie mid course.

Ahem.

This said, I have orchestrated this kind of experience before.

It helps to have friends, it helps to have muscle so you can really fight as much as you want to fight and KNOW you are not going anywhere. And it helps to do this outside in the remote nowhere. Both times I wrangled a victim it was far from the madding crowd, and I think you are way less likely to have problems.

First off, that's so hot and exactly what I've been hoping for from my roomie and boyfriend....it's just a matter of communicating that to him, and I think she'll be down as well.

If I might offer my limited experience and thoughts (and realize I didn't read the whole thread)....you may want to try a bit of light bondage. we invested in a chest-to knee restraint halter that pins your arms behind you and a spreader par for my ankles, and it's done wonders. I'm not normally really into bondage...spanking yes, but not really bondage. But I find that the bondage eliminates the need for my man to be exceptionally strong (I'm built like a gymnast and almost the same size as him)....and the binding gives me the freedom not to fight, since doing so would be completely useless. It's like by wearing that and taking any option of fleeing away, it gives me the permission to just let it happen. Enough spanking gets me to that point, but it's hard to hold down a strong wiggly woman long enough to get her to that point.



ok, so that's all I have to add

 

[ecstaticsub]

My first real life meeting with my Dom was in some ways a consensual non-consensual scene. It was consensual in that I wanted to be with him, and I had filled out a long questionaire about my limits. Gangbangs was somethng Ilisted as never having done but they were not a limit. Previously, I expressed a desire to be just with him the first time we met even though most of the fantasies I shared with him were group sex fantasies.

So after spending the first few hours just with him I was a "gangbang party favor". It was totally not expected but since it was more of a party than a scene really it was fun. A little scary but since I trusted him knew I would be fine.

Any other time I have been shared I have not been told about it beforehand. it just happens.


This, of course is different than a forced scene. I have fantasies about that, too. I don't know if I have any desire for them to come real though.

 

[Netzach]

First off, that's so hot and exactly what I've been hoping for from my roomie and boyfriend....it's just a matter of communicating that to him, and I think she'll be down as well.

If I might offer my limited experience and thoughts (and realize I didn't read the whole thread)....you may want to try a bit of light bondage. we invested in a chest-to knee restraint halter that pins your arms behind you and a spreader par for my ankles, and it's done wonders. I'm not normally really into bondage...spanking yes, but not really bondage. But I find that the bondage eliminates the need for my man to be exceptionally strong (I'm built like a gymnast and almost the same size as him)....and the binding gives me the freedom not to fight, since doing so would be completely useless. It's like by wearing that and taking any option of fleeing away, it gives me the permission to just let it happen. Enough spanking gets me to that point, but it's hard to hold down a strong wiggly woman long enough to get her to that point.



ok, so that's all I have to add

In one of my consentual non-con scenes it was me, a BBW, a fairly well built gay leatherman who does manual work, a pretty androgynous party boy, trying to pin down his wife - a slight and short woman who has a disability affecting the use of her arms.

It's AMAZING what someone can pull off when they feel like they have a free pass to fight. She put us all through a workout.

 

[the_pet]

MIS

Not knowing you or A it's hard to say what would make your nc scene work but...... (IMO and what works for me personally) is for Pyl to piss me off then begin to tease and laugh at me and my anger (i have a hot temper) (grrrrr). While i only weigh 125, when provoked, I CAN HURT YOU, and once you put your hands on me, IT IS ON!!!!!!! I will fight you and what makes the scene work for us, is just that, I REFUSE TO GIVE IN and the only way Ppl is going to fuck me is to subdue me to the point that it hurts to fight back or move. As i said, I CAN HURT BACK, and it doesn't take long before Ppl isn't laughing anymore and starts to get more agressive and has to resort to brutality (or what vanilla's would consider brutal probably) to fuck me. I really get in the mindset of it's YOU OR ME BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have fun and be safe!

pet

 

[Puman]

MIS

Not knowing you or A it's hard to say what would make your nc scene work but...... (IMO and what works for me personally) is for Pyl to piss me off then begin to tease and laugh at me and my anger (i have a hot temper) (grrrrr). While i only weigh 125, when provoked, I CAN HURT YOU, and once you put your hands on me, IT IS ON!!!!!!! I will fight you and what makes the scene work for us, is just that, I REFUSE TO GIVE IN and the only way Ppl is going to fuck me is to subdue me to the point that it hurts to fight back or move. As i said, I CAN HURT BACK, and it doesn't take long before Ppl isn't laughing anymore and starts to get more agressive and has to resort to brutality (or what vanilla's would consider brutal probably) to fuck me. I really get in the mindset of it's YOU OR ME BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have fun and be safe!

pet

Yeah - I think that most Doms need to be sure that they could, in fact, subdue their subs in this sort of tense situation. I helped a friend of mine (a Dom) set up a 'rape' scene for his sub. All I had to do was get her out of the house for about an an hour and then drop her back at home.... 3 hours later I got a call from the emergency ward at our local hospital, to go and pick them both up... Apparently he grabbed her as she entered the house and she got such a shock that she went straight into "fight" mode...and well - the afternoon pretty much ended with 2 broken bones (his), plenty of stitching up and one really nasty tetanis shot. (She bit him before he could get the gag on). To my knowledge they haven't tried this again....

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Yeah - I think that most Doms need to be sure that they could, in fact, subdue their subs in this sort of tense situation. I helped a friend of mine (a Dom) set up a 'rape' scene for his sub. All I had to do was get her out of the house for about an an hour and then drop her back at home.... 3 hours later I got a call from the emergency ward at our local hospital, to go and pick them both up... Apparently he grabbed her as she entered the house and she got such a shock that she went straight into "fight" mode...and well - the afternoon pretty much ended with 2 broken bones (his), plenty of stitching up and one really nasty tetanis shot. (She bit him before he could get the gag on). To my knowledge they haven't tried this again....

I don't find this one easy to deliver... But since it is on a wish list I've been give I would love to read more. Early in a D/s relationship I would think there's more danger / scare because you're not sure you really 'know' the other person. As you move further into the relationship it is probably harder to give her the feeling / experience of being 'raped' because she knows you, but in my mind is far more likely that she'll still be your girl the next morning because she knows -- somewhere deep down inside trusts -- that she'll survive the experience. (And you're less likely to be arrested for it...)

 

[Femme_Noir]

Interesting thread.

My Dom would sometimes arrange 'rape days' for me. He would make sure we didn't see each other for a few days, and that I should expect to be 'raped' on any one of those days, any time, any place. The anticipation was the best part, it was such a mind-fuck tease. The best time was when I had forgotten all about it, on the way home from work one evening. He had followed me, pulled me into a small park area and 'raped' me. I didn't see his face until he started the sex, which was frightening and erotic all at the same time.

 

[HottieMama]

This is one of my biggest fantasies. Like #2 on sexual things i will experience before i die.

How i envision it in my head is...My PYL sends me to the store, perhaps late at night to pick up some things for Him. i go...and what i don't know is that while i am shopping he has gotten into a basic disguise (ski mask or what have you) and is waiting for me in the parking lot of the grocery store. As i am walking back to my car, he comes up from behind, covers my eyes...(possibly knife to my throat.."Don't say a word or i'll cut you") and forces me into a car......we go somewhere and i am basically assaulted in every way possible and used like a gutter-slut. In my mind it ends with him pulling off the ski mask, and looking down at me with a huge smile on his face.

 

[BiBunny]

This thread makes part of me think I should remind someone how much I like the idea of another "rape" scene like the other one. Then part of me remembers what I told mis at the beginning of this thread..."Be careful what you wish for."

 

[myinnerslut]

Yeah - I think that most Doms need to be sure that they could, in fact, subdue their subs in this sort of tense situation. I helped a friend of mine (a Dom) set up a 'rape' scene for his sub. All I had to do was get her out of the house for about an an hour and then drop her back at home.... 3 hours later I got a call from the emergency ward at our local hospital, to go and pick them both up... Apparently he grabbed her as she entered the house and she got such a shock that she went straight into "fight" mode...and well - the afternoon pretty much ended with 2 broken bones (his), plenty of stitching up and one really nasty tetanis shot. (She bit him before he could get the gag on). To my knowledge they haven't tried this again....

well, did she WANT the rape fantasy?? if she didnt and it was truly non consent then its no wonder she fuaght so hard. as a huge part of my fatasy is being subdued, while i want to fight, i walso WANT to be held down, to be overpowered... im not going to be fighting with absolutly everything ive got becuase a part of me doesnt want to get away

 

[catalina_francisco]

While the desire is there, it is very difficult to achieve a nc scene if the only things involved are things which have been consented to, or are OK because you are prepared for it to happen. I think those elements make it more role play than what you are hoping to experience. I also doubt the waiting a few days so the pyl's defences are down isn't likely to work for most who are seriously highly desiring nc and know it is in the planning.

So that leaves only going where it is seriously risky to go and trusting it will not have any long term effects on the relationship, at least not of the negative kind. This is difficult to predict for most, but work wonderfully when used successfully. I also think for it to be nc and feel real, that fine line between fear and terror might just have to be crossed. For most into SM play, there are times when fear comes into play, but as you say, you go along with whatever is happening....terror on the other hand moves you beyond the co-operative frame of mind, but also take time to process later.

I also wouldn't suggest the semi public idea as a good one because it could turn out very nasty for you or someone else if an innocent bystander took it for real and tried to step in to rescue the damsel in distress. I think it is irresponsible to take that risk with others who are not privy to your kink and have not consented to be included. Same goes for A catching you by surprise so you don't know it is him and holding a knife to your throat...one of you could inadvertently end up very dead. There are safe ways to work with this, but they still carry some emotional and psychological risks which need to be seriously considered first.

Catalina

 

[myinnerslut]

......

 

[Puman]

well, did she WANT the rape fantasy?? if she didnt and it was truly non consent then its no wonder she fuaght so hard. as a huge part of my fatasy is being subdued, while i want to fight, i walso WANT to be held down, to be overpowered... im not going to be fighting with absolutly everything ive got becuase a part of me doesnt want to get away

Yes - they had discussed it about 3 weeks prior to the fiasco and it was something she really wanted to try. They'd both agreed that an element of surprise would 'make it more real' (which was when Dom called me to help). I think that perhaps the time lapse between planning and acting out the scene was a bit too big, so she was truly not expecting it... at the time I was still living in Johannesburg (probably the crime capital of the world) so that could also have been a factor...

 

[the_pet]

Yeah - I think that most Doms need to be sure that they could, in fact, subdue their subs in this sort of tense situation. I helped a friend of mine (a Dom) set up a 'rape' scene for his sub. All I had to do was get her out of the house for about an an hour and then drop her back at home.... 3 hours later I got a call from the emergency ward at our local hospital, to go and pick them both up... Apparently he grabbed her as she entered the house and she got such a shock that she went straight into "fight" mode...and well - the afternoon pretty much ended with 2 broken bones (his), plenty of stitching up and one really nasty tetanis shot. (She bit him before he could get the gag on). To my knowledge they haven't tried this again....

I haven't broke any bones yet! I have landed a couple of slaps that for a split second i though, "OH SHIT" my ass is in trouble now!!!!!!!!



pet

 

[JMohegan]

MIS, you might find this thread helpful.

I can't think of anything to add to what I wrote there, except to echo BiBunny's warning. Be careful what you wish for, and know that there may be emotional consequences that you do not expect.

This is high risk, high reward behavior. No doubt.

 

[Etoile]

While the desire is there, it is very difficult to achieve a nc scene if the only things involved are things which have been consented to, or are OK because you are prepared for it to happen. I think those elements make it more role play than what you are hoping to experience. I also doubt the waiting a few days so the pyl's defences are down isn't likely to work for most who are seriously highly desiring nc and know it is in the planning.

I'm not so sure I agree. I have definitely been involved in nc scenes that were not planned - and actually, not even desired, which is why it was nc. I'm talking about being held down and forced, as was described in this thread - my dominant is not very big, but e is stronger than I am, and that makes for some very non-consensual scenes. I wasn't prepared for any of these instances, and I actually wouldn't even call them "scenes" - they were more like "acts" that happened to me. So I guess if somebody is craving nc then it will probably be hard to fake it, but that doesn't mean nc is unachievable.

 

[myinnerslut]

MIS, you might find this thread helpful.

I can't think of anything to add to what I wrote there, except to echo BiBunny's warning. Be careful what you wish for, and know that there may be emotional consequences that you do not expect.

This is high risk, high reward behavior. No doubt.

i actually posted in that thread. unfortunatly the mock rape scene i talked about there never happened and got pushed foward to the one i am currently planning becuase A got very ill the weekend i visited him then.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not so sure I agree. I have definitely been involved in nc scenes that were not planned - and actually, not even desired, which is why it was nc. I'm talking about being held down and forced, as was described in this thread - my dominant is not very big, but e is stronger than I am, and that makes for some very non-consensual scenes. I wasn't prepared for any of these instances, and I actually wouldn't even call them "scenes" - they were more like "acts" that happened to me. So I guess if somebody is craving nc then it will probably be hard to fake it, but that doesn't mean nc is unachievable.

I didn't say it was unachievable, just difficult for many.

Catalina

 

[Softouch911]

I've been following this thread, because it's fun, but I'm still a bit confused as it seems that nonconsent is being used by some, and sometimes, as a synonym for "resistance play."

Or does no one else make that distinction?

As I've understood and practiced these:

Resistance play is much like the rape scene described. We often enjoy it as part of role play. There is a struggle -- mental, psychological, and physical -- in response to a threat; one form we've used has been interrogation, and another is a rape fantasy, as a couple of examples. In these cases it's pretty much no holds barred and a lot of the fun is in (d'oh) the resistance.

Nonconsent play as we've practiced it is more our norm where consent was given (a long time ago) to whatever is chosen for her to experience. She has no voice and no safeword (note to those new to BDSM play or new to one another -- don't try this! You need time to get to know one another for the level of trust needed, as well as the safety.) In NC play sessions, I don't expect resistance. I would expect, if she were surprised, that she would fight (and probably maim, lol) her assailant; once she knew it was Me, her resistance would disappear. We leave resistance solely in the realm of role play, in other words.

Now, obviously I have a different idea of what the words mean than the rest of you and I'm not trying to argue at all, but I'm wondering if anyone else had the same idea I've had. If it seems just weird and an OT post, please ignore.

Respectfully, ST.

 

[truebluelady]

Consensual Non-Consent

I had a very satisfying rape scene. I gave a set of keys to my apartment to my partner. Months afterward, when I really was not expecting it, he let himself into my apartment, attacked me from behind, blindfolded and handcuffed me. I was genuinely scared. He said nothing, so I didn't know if it was him or a stranger. I fought him like crazy, but was overpowered. I knew that it was him when he started fucking me, so it was both satisfying and thrilling.

 

[JMohegan]

I've been following this thread, because it's fun, but I'm still a bit confused as it seems that nonconsent is being used by some, and sometimes, as a synonym for "resistance play."

Or does no one else make that distinction?

As I've understood and practiced these:

Resistance play is much like the rape scene described. We often enjoy it as part of role play. There is a struggle -- mental, psychological, and physical -- in response to a threat; one form we've used has been interrogation, and another is a rape fantasy, as a couple of examples. In these cases it's pretty much no holds barred and a lot of the fun is in (d'oh) the resistance.

Nonconsent play as we've practiced it is more our norm where consent was given (a long time ago) to whatever is chosen for her to experience. She has no voice and no safeword (note to those new to BDSM play or new to one another -- don't try this! You need time to get to know one another for the level of trust needed, as well as the safety.) In NC play sessions, I don't expect resistance. I would expect, if she were surprised, that she would fight (and probably maim, lol) her assailant; once she knew it was Me, her resistance would disappear. We leave resistance solely in the realm of role play, in other words.

Now, obviously I have a different idea of what the words mean than the rest of you and I'm not trying to argue at all, but I'm wondering if anyone else had the same idea I've had. If it seems just weird and an OT post, please ignore.

Respectfully, ST.

I inferred, from the thread title combined with the content of the opening post, that MIS was purposefully avoiding the loaded (and in this context, clearly inaccurate) term "rape", as well as the phrase "rape play" - which is deeply offensive to some.

[MIS, if my inference was incorrect please let me know.]

Though consensual non-consent is obviously an oxymoron, I respect the avoidance of the more loaded term and understood what she wanted to talk about from the context of the opening post.

As to your question about what words others use to describe this sort of thing, I usually use the phrase "Taken by Force" (or TBF) to refer to the type of experience described in post 1. Your phrase "Resistance Play" seems comparable, though I do not personally adopt a different roleplay-type persona (jailor, stranger, etc.) when I do this.


In explaining your phrase "Nonconsent play", you seem to be describing a combination of what is often referred to as the submissive having agreed to "no limits", and the submissive having agreed to forego the use of a safeword. Technically speaking, given the meaning of the prefix "non", the term "non-consent" is a misnomer in this context. [Consent given a long time ago is not the same thing as absence of consent, clearly.] But as long as your partner understands what you really mean, there's obviously no problem.

To me, non-consent would apply not to what you have described, but rather to something like the clear violation of trust suggested by Pure in post 18.

 

[myinnerslut]

I inferred, from the thread title combined with the content of the opening post, that MIS was purposefully avoiding the loaded (and in this context, clearly inaccurate) term "rape", as well as the phrase "rape play" - which is deeply offensive to some.

[MIS, if my inference was incorrect please let me know.]

thats excacty right. this is a fantasy of mine. rape, in my mind isnt fantasy material. non consent is. struggle is. resistance is. but rape? i was once molested as a very small child, i know people who have been actually raped... it is not the stuff that fantasies are made of, at least not for me.

 

[Netzach]

I don't see why we can't handle some paradoxes. It's like saying I can't call that uniform with a red armband "a Nazi Unifiorm" because that person's not really a Nazi.

 

[Softouch911]

Thanks to all for the clarifications. I understand the distinctions.

Like Netzach, I'm comfortable with paradox, especially since pain/pleasure is so much a part of our life.

But I don't want to go OT, and I'm glad to understand the reasoning behind the use of terms here.

Respectfully,
ST

 

[JMohegan]

Thanks to all for the clarifications.

Quite welcome.

I don't see why we can't handle some paradoxes. It's like saying I can't call that uniform with a red armband "a Nazi Unifiorm" because that person's not really a Nazi.

My comfort level with this type of paradox depends entirely on context, and the person(s) to whom I am speaking.


As an aside, I'll note that I started using the phrase "Taken By Force" not to distinguish between what I do and the crime, but rather to distinguish between the relatively non-violent fantasies of some women and what others might have in mind.

I have spoken to many women who say they have rape fantasies. When they start to elaborate, however, it often becomes clear that their fantasies focus primarily on what happens once they've already been restrained. (This is particularly true for those with little or no BDSM experience.) A lot of them don't spend much fantasy time envisioning how they get tied up; the bulk of the mental action takes place once they have lost all ability to resist and "have no choice" about what goes on.

The point & purpose of what they describe is very different from the intense physical struggle described in the opening post of this thread. Hence my attempt to clarify with the TBF phrase.